Izzet Anyone?

[the boogie man]

   Izzet was an obscure deck that did ok at a large tournament, but  never really caught on. It used a lot of red (which is exceptionally good right now), but doesn't really have to. it ran mana drain and a full control suite, which really fit the deck, but the engine could be used any where where you ran blue. the best part, though, is that the engine is so compact that it really fits anywhere. 3-4 guildmages, a reset, and you're good to go. goes great with merchant scroll. actually, goes awesome with scroll, which acts as an enabler and as a combo piece, if you ever need to search for infinite blue instants.
   
   My questions lies in whether or not this engine can be salvaged at all.

[Gort32]

I used to run Izzet and did fairly well with it at local tourneys, but it suffered then from the same problem that it would suffer now: it is just too slow.  Once you get established, the ability to double, triple, etc almost every spell you play is incredible and pretty much guarantees you the win, but you have to get to that point first and other decks are likely to get their game online before you do.

While doubling, say, Ancestral or Walk give a huge advantage, that also means that you need to hold back these powerful spells until the midgame when you likely need to be casting them in the early game in order to get ahead in the first place.  if you don't cast these early and your opponent casts his, he'll be entering the midgame with far more resources than you will and we all know how that is going to end.  If you do cast your powerful cheap spells early, in the mid to late game you will be doubling Merchant Scrolls to find multiple Brainstorms at best (for {3} - not the greatest bargain). 

In order to obtain these doubling effects, you need to have an Izzet Guildmage in play already, which means dropping a 2CC 2/2 body that doesn't do anything for a couple of turns.  Compare this with Fish, whose creatures come out of the gate swinging and disrupting  As a result, you usually are best off going with the pure control route and spending the resources to find/drop an Izzet later on once you are established and can afford to spend the mana on something that isn't immediately useful.  We usually call this "winning more".

Finally, best-case scenario, in order to go off with Reset, you need 4 lands or a Tolarian - unlike other combos, artifact accelerants don't help you here.  Flash and other more refined combo decks aren't going to let you get to that point in the first place, Stax is going to have a couple pieces of significant disruption, Fish will have pushed you back a couple more turns with land disruption, and GAT will simply outperform you and prevents any combo deck from going off that late in the game.

In short, the deck has power in it, but I just don't see how it is going to be able to compete in the current metagame.  However, I will say that, even though it is not optimal, the deck is a blast to play - there are so many ways to go nuts if you can survive to the midgame that you'll have plenty of stories to tell at the Type 4 table while the Top-8's are battling it out at the end of the day.

[the boogie man]

   Having to save those awesome spells is slightly put off by the fact that you can run black with yawgmoths will and recoup, a combo that works exceptionally well. Tendrils can give you a large boost in life if it does not win on the spot, as does empty the warrens, which provides blockers. both can be fetched from a maindecked burning wish. The disruption can also be tuned with multiple duress/ reb (most likely the latter, with some of the former), to survive.

[Gort32]

Yes, Yawg Will into Ancestral, Walk, and other brokenness is great.  Yawg will into Izzet-created copies of brokenness is better of course.  The problem is that if you resolved a Yawg Will with that kind of brokenness in the graveyard then you've already won, Izzet or no.  The ability to copy broken spells is awesome indeed, but in the end it is just win-more - we're talking about spells that are so powerful that they are outright banned in every other format because even having one copy of them is enough to be overly abusive.

I welcome the chance to be proven wrong with a good decklist that can stand up to the metagame.  Like I said, the deck is insanely fun to play and I woudl love to be able to pick it up again, but I just don't see how it can hold its own against some of the more streamlined decks.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

The ability to copy broken spells is awesome indeed, but in the end it is just win-more - we're talking about spells that are so powerful that they are outright banned in every other format because even having one copy of them is enough to be overly abusive.

Copying AK for 1 or 2 isn't exactly win-more... it's winning small... which is what this deck can do and aims to do.

Also, Time Walk is often not very broken. But 3-4 Time Walks is ALWAYS broken.

[meadbert]

And copying Brainstorm is seriously insane.

Imagine a spell that costs uu2 and read:
Draw 4 cards.  Put two back on top of your library in any order.

Now imagine you have a fetchland open and you get the idea.

I have lost to Izzet many times just off copying Brainstorms and Mana Drains.

[islanderboi10]

Hmmm...wonder where this thread came from...just kiddin.

Yea, I too believe that Izzet could be a viable choice.  But there must be some change.


Maindeck Scrolls would be nice...but what else?

Here is a recent list from the thread I created at starcitygames.com

It is the most recent list that Brandon has posted:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus  
1 Mana Crypt  
1 Mox Emerald  
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Pearl  
1 Mox Ruby  
1 Mox Sapphire  
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring  

Artifact Creatures
1 Darksteel Colossus

Creatures
3 Izzet Guildmage

Instants
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall  
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fire / Ice
4 Force Of Will
2 Intuition
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor  
1 Pyroblast
1 Reset

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor  
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Time Walk  
1 Tinker  
1 Yawgmoth's Will  

Basic Lands
3 Island

Lands
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy  

Sideboard:
1 Platinum Angel
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Fire / Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pyroblast
1 Rack And Ruin
1 Rebuild
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Trickbind
1 Twincast

[zoidberg]

Well here is my take on izzet as to go to more control than massive card advanage and have a couple of combos to win the game with


1 Tinker
1 Darksteel collosus
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning wish
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Fire//Ice
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Pithing Needle
3 Trinket Mage
4 Izzet Guildmage
2 Reset
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
1 Tolarain Academy
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Stifle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Stroke of Genuis

[the boogie man]

yeah, i know, this came from starcity. but I had to, no one else did.

4 force
4 drain
2 red blast
2 duress

16 land

7 artifact mana

3 guildmage
reset
yawgwill

4 brainstorm
4 ak
3 scroll
2 intuition
2 power blue
cunning wish
recoup
demonic

   That is the list I have been toying with. It runs a lot of disruption, and no tinker. I just really think that tinker is out-dated with colossus, as decks have infinite ways to remove him. There is really no need to run him, At least that is what I believe. also, the intuitions allow recoup to be a viable target, which adds a new dimension to late game and mid game. I really like the empty the warrens, too. maybe cunning wish could be run with burning wish, as to wish for win conditions and niche spells. the only issue would be merchant scroll, and sideboard space.

   The disruption handles contemporary decks pretty well, and the win-condition is compact and wins at instant speed, And I think that the deck could do well.

[zoidberg]

The only thing that i question about this list is how do you win? I would also test out more tutors for the reb and add 1 more duress and also see if reb is more efficent than drain.

[islanderboi10]

You win by going infinite mana

Izzet Guildmage + Reset + Lands=Infinite Mana
From there, you can take infinite turns with Walk, if you choose too. You may also C-Wish into something. OR you may infinitly recall your deck to your hand and recall your opponent infinite times.

The deck also just wins if you drop Izzet Guildmage against control. You have counters...a lot of them, not to mention Ak's for more than one is ridiculous.

[zoidberg]

didnt notice the reset in there

[fury]

From there, you can take infinite turns with Walk, if you choose too. You may also C-Wish into something. OR you may infinitly recall your deck to your hand and recall your opponent infinite times.

How can you cast sorceries during the opponent's turn ? Reset can only be casted during the opponent's turn.

[islanderboi10]

Good Point, ok you can take a few time walks...