Football

[Smmenen]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

[Vegeta2711]

So seriously, Eli Manning = Joe Namath? The stat lines for both of them are eerily similar and both won games the majority didn't give them a shot in hell of winning.

[oneofchaos]

I told you the giants would win a close game, why didn't anyone listen?

Edit: now I feel bad for my friend because I watched 17 out of those 18 wins with him, and now they amount to nothing.  Miami must be happy you didn't break their record.  (I'm excluding the amount of games played per season change)

[MadManiac21]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

Blatantly missed the offensive pass interference in the first half on the Giants.

Then again, it took Brady till their final drive to throw quick slant passes (wtf) and our D shipped Eli the game on that final drive. Unreal.

Remind me to FedEx you animal feces.

[Smmenen]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

Blatantly missed the offensive pass interference in the first half on the Giants.

Then again, it took Brady till their final drive to throw quick slant passes (wtf) and our D shipped Eli the game on that final drive. Unreal.

Remind me to FedEx you animal feces.

Wow, so you are a sore loser too? 

[Yare]

Sorry kids, but the Giants defense dominated the Patriots offense.  That's the story of the game (in spite of Eli winning MVP).

[Vegeta2711]

Sorry kids, but the Giants defense dominated the Patriots offense.  That's the story of the game (in spite of Eli winning MVP).

I think The Catch: Part 2 by Eli -> David Tyree will be the most remembered play from this Super Bowl.

Although Brady laid out on his ass will probably be a close second.

[Smmenen]

This was a huge defensive game on both sides.  I've never seen Brady sacked so many times in one game though.

[The Demon]

Damn, Tom Brady took some serious SHOTs in that game.  There goes that entire "greatest team ever" deal.

[The Demon]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

Blatantly missed the offensive pass interference in the first half on the Giants.

Then again, it took Brady till their final drive to throw quick slant passes (wtf) and our D shipped Eli the game on that final drive. Unreal.

Remind me to FedEx you animal feces.

Your Defense did not ship Eli anything.  Eli played great football in at the end of the game.  And unlike your "god" Tom Brady, he actually lead his team all the way down the field for a game winning TD, as opposed to a FG  I think you may want to cut down on the sour grapes with your WHINE

[LordHomerCat]

That Tyree catch was absolutely insane, how in the hell did he actual hold onto the ball there?  I mean, I missed most of the game, but its hard to believe that any play could match that one for the most memorable moment, given the importance of it and such.

Congrats to the Giants, I'm pretty much just glad to see anyone but the Pats win though, really.

[oneofchaos]

The one thing you'll remember about this superbowl was that their were no calls that coulda gone either way, or were in favor for the giants etc.  It was a well played super bowl, few penalties, but the better team won.  The giants defense was amazing, and I think Tom Brady spent half the game on his ass pondering if he could even win it.  That was a first for him.  I'm not sure he likes to be sacced and hit so often.

Edit:  I'm also really happy and proud for both Eli and Tom Coughlin.  Both have gotten serious shit the past few years and I was one who was ready to run Tom outside a few years ago.  Now, he doesn't need to worry about getting fired, and he no longer has that little rookie peyton-wannabe quarterback that throws 3-4 interceptions per game.  I'm also a patriots fan and I do feel bad for a team winning 18 games, and then it amounts to nothing since you couldn't win the superbowl.  Had they lost to any team in season (The following all should have beat them: Baltimore with the bs 4th downs, Eagles eeked it out, Giants eeked it out) and won they superbowl they would have still had their dynasty.  Now, that 18-1 blemish will make sure nobody cares about 18 wins if you can't win the superbowl.  By the way who the hell said the patriots would score 42 points?  Please!!!!!

[Meddling Mike]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

Since the only team you voiced any support for in this game was the pack, you're not from NY and you never actually responded to his post by picking the Giants, not sure you really get dibs on bragging right on this one Steve. I'd say this actually reinforces my "Smmenen's pick = doom" theory, I'm sure if you had picked the Giants to win this game then the Patriots would have destroyed the Giants.

I'm personally laying the blame for the outcome of this game squarely at the feet of Tom Brady and his O-Line. Brady wasn't able to find his quick outs when the blitz was coming and his line full of pro-bowlers looked ridiculously overwhelmed and outplayed. Brady took some hard hits early on and never really seemed to find his rhythm. His deep ball was laughably off the mark and lacked his usual good sense in the pocket. I think the ankle injury was a big factor, but Brady claims to be 100%, so we'll never know for sure.

I'd prefer to give little/no credit to Eli personally. When your defense is giving you one opportunity after another to score points mustering 17 is no great accomplishment.

That no-call on the offensive pass interference really bothered me. Not only was he pushing off, he pushed off from the face mask. The need for separation was pretty clear in that situation and the referees should have been watching for it.

Now that it's all said and done, expect them to be back in the big game next year. Randy Moss has already said that he's willing to take a below market value deal to finish his career as a Patriot. The Patriots also have the 49'ers draft pick to replace the one taken from them and they always seem to make good moves with free agent signings. Sure, there will be holes to fill, but I expect the core team to be there with a bad taste in their mouths after the way this Super Bowl ended.

[Smmenen]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

Since the only team you voiced any support for in this game was the pack, you're not from NY and you never actually responded to his post by picking the Giants, not sure you really get dibs on bragging right on this one Steve. I'd say this actually reinforces my "Smmenen's pick = doom" theory, I'm sure if you had picked the Giants to win this game then the Patriots would have destroyed the Giants.

I told the Kroger bagger, after he inquired, that I thought the Patriots would blow out the Giants, although I wanted the Giants to win.   

[Yare]

Just to be clear about my comment above.  What will be remembered will undoubtedly be the amazing catches that sustained the drives for the Giants.  The true story of the game, however, was the Giants defense.  17 points against the Patriots in any other week is a losing effort, possibly a decisive losing effort.

[vartemis]

For me there were two decisive moments:

1) Giants get busted with too many men on the field, giving NE a first down, yet they couldn't capitalize on the situation.

2) the "glue on my helmet" NY catch.  Im pretty sure the only thing going through his head was "dont fuckin drop it..."

I bet the NY DB that slipped (forget who it was) and let Moss get that first touchdown is relieved.  For a while it looked like his mistake was what was going to cost NY the game.  The other thing that I got into a heated debate about was that, although Manning had a good game and the MVP always goes to the winning team, if it was on pure skill, I think Welker should get some cred.  The guy is like a mouse running through the walls in the house that is the Giants defense.  It got so bad that they started double coverage on him, which is what left Moss open for the first touchdown.

Oh and for the record, I bet on NY (Woohoo!), and the only reason I did is because Princess, the NFL Predicting Camel said they were going to win.  Never doubt the camel guys! 

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEWS/801290356/1070/rss02

j

[oneofchaos]

Webster tripped himself up on that touchdown, and did you notice 30 second timeouts vs regular 60 sec?

[The Demon]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

I'd prefer to give little/no credit to Eli personally. When your defense is giving you one opportunity after another to score points mustering 17 is no great accomplishment.


How do you give no credit to Eli Manning?  He lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown.  That insane break from the sack and pass to Tyree with three Patriot defensive players coming at him is just as impressive as anything that Brady has done in any of his superbowls.

[Methuselahn]

I watched the game and it was blatantly obvious that the Giants didn't win the superbowl, the Pats lost it.   

[Grand Inquisitor]

I'm a Pats fan, but even I'm gonna reign in the BS here.

Blatantly missed the offensive pass interference in the first half on the Giants.

There were great camera angles so everyone got to see how ugly it looked; plays like that happen all the time in the NFL, it's really a marginal call one way or the other.  This was a well ref'd game.

The only slight gripe I had, was that the officials seem to buy what might have been significant time for the Giants on their final drive with yardage measures and questionable clock resets.  That being said, the G's got into the end zone with plenty of time to spare.

our D shipped Eli the game on that final drive.

There were a number of plays where the Giants escaped by inches.  This isn't a sign of the D punting it, this is high level football with New York playing their asses off to get the job done.  Through out the game, they seemed to want it more.

Even if the Giants weren't my second favorite team after the Pats, I could be happy with this outcome.  It shows how anomalous all of this is; them beating two of the surest bets in clutch sports, Brady and Belicheck.

I thought the Patriots would blow out the Giants, although I wanted the Giants to win.   

So the Giants are the RG Beatz of the NFL?

[Meddling Mike]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

I'd prefer to give little/no credit to Eli personally. When your defense is giving you one opportunity after another to score points mustering 17 is no great accomplishment.

How do you give no credit to Eli Manning?  He lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown.  That insane break from the sack and pass to Tyree with three Patriot defensive players coming at him is just as impressive as anything that Brady has done in any of his superbowls.

He had one good drive the entire game. If his defense hadn't been able to keep the Patriots score to an unprecedented season low (The Patriots previous season low points total of 20 would have been adequate to win this game) and kept the Patriots off the field and give Eli tons of opportunities we'd all be talking about what a choke artist he is. He played 3 quarters of football without scoring a touchdown and threw an Interception in the red zone. Rex Grossman probably could've managed to pull this off.

[kirdape3]

He had three good drives.  The first one was a clinic in how to grind time off the clock and convert first-downs.  The second one was a very good catch-and-run against Harrison who started to look his age like every other Patriots defender not named Adalius Thomas and then a couple of very solid passes from Manning in the red zone.  The third one was the epic.

He certainly outplayed Tom Brady, who by the end of the game had a severe case of happy feet due to the pass rush.

[oneofchaos]

Simply put Eli had a few good drives, isn't a rookie anymore, and the giants defense owned the patriots offense.  Had the patriots defense been better, or had Eli botched it, It would have been a close Patriots win.  But nobody is ever gonna remember that 18 games win streak only to find out you couldn't win one more game.  Miami is partying also.

[The Demon]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

I'd prefer to give little/no credit to Eli personally. When your defense is giving you one opportunity after another to score points mustering 17 is no great accomplishment.

How do you give no credit to Eli Manning?  He lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown.  That insane break from the sack and pass to Tyree with three Patriot defensive players coming at him is just as impressive as anything that Brady has done in any of his superbowls.

He had one good drive the entire game. If his defense hadn't been able to keep the Patriots score to an unprecedented season low (The Patriots previous season low points total of 20 would have been adequate to win this game) and kept the Patriots off the field and give Eli tons of opportunities we'd all be talking about what a choke artist he is. He played 3 quarters of football without scoring a touchdown and threw an Interception in the red zone. Rex Grossman probably could've managed to pull this off.

Eli Manning was playing against a very good defense Meddling Mage.  You don't have to throw for 300 yards and 4 TDs to have a good passing game.  And that interception in the redzone was not his fault.  That INT was totally the Wide Receivers fault, not his. 

If his defense had played poorly would be talking about the blowout that happened, not the poor play of Eli Manning that did not happen.  Hell, he pulled a Tom Brady honestly.  Did absolutely nothing special for a good chunk of the game and lead his team to a victory late in the game.  Except this time he actually scored a touchdown, not go up the field for 55 yards and win off a TD. 

As far as only one good drive, it was mentioned earlier and it is worth mentioning again that his first drive was excellent.  The drive lasted about nine minutes.  They shortened the game against a great offense, exactly what was wrong with this?

The truth of the matter is that Eli played a fine game, the Patriots played poor, Tom Brady sucked almost the entire game, and that last sack on Tom Brady was amazing.

[oneofchaos]

I'm tired of all the patriots fans saying they should have won it.  (Not tmd peeps tho)  But seriously if you should have won it, they you would have won it.  It'd have been neat to see a team go 19-0, but the overall cocky attitude of the average patriots fan leaves humility out of the game.  You guys needed this loss more than the win, and this is just a reminder that even the biggest strongest powers fall down.

[Meddling Mike]

Ohhhh Smennnennnnnn.....

Any Superbowl predictions for us?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OL

How does it feel? 

I'd prefer to give little/no credit to Eli personally. When your defense is giving you one opportunity after another to score points mustering 17 is no great accomplishment.

How do you give no credit to Eli Manning?  He lead his team down the field for a game winning touchdown.  That insane break from the sack and pass to Tyree with three Patriot defensive players coming at him is just as impressive as anything that Brady has done in any of his superbowls.

He had one good drive the entire game. If his defense hadn't been able to keep the Patriots score to an unprecedented season low (The Patriots previous season low points total of 20 would have been adequate to win this game) and kept the Patriots off the field and give Eli tons of opportunities we'd all be talking about what a choke artist he is. He played 3 quarters of football without scoring a touchdown and threw an Interception in the red zone. Rex Grossman probably could've managed to pull this off.

Eli Manning was playing against a very good defense Meddling Mage.  You don't have to throw for 300 yards and 4 TDs to have a good passing game.  And that interception in the redzone was not his fault.  That INT was totally the Wide Receivers fault, not his. 

If his defense had played poorly would be talking about the blowout that happened, not the poor play of Eli Manning that did not happen.  Hell, he pulled a Tom Brady honestly.  Did absolutely nothing special for a good chunk of the game and lead his team to a victory late in the game.  Except this time he actually scored a touchdown, not go up the field for 55 yards and win off a TD. 

As far as only one good drive, it was mentioned earlier and it is worth mentioning again that his first drive was excellent.  The drive lasted about nine minutes.  They shortened the game against a great offense, exactly what was wrong with this?

The truth of the matter is that Eli played a fine game, the Patriots played poor, Tom Brady sucked almost the entire game, and that last sack on Tom Brady was amazing.

Allright, fine, let's take the empirical approach to this. The average number of points allowed per game by the Patriots defense was 17. Quite a coincidence, 274 Points allowed in the regular season and 49 allowed in 3 playoff games. (274 + 49 = 323  323/19=17) A good argument against the validity of this number would be to point out that some of these points were scored in junk time with the Patriots playing prevent defense, but I think this is more than cancelled out by the opportunities created by the defense that no other team was able to produce against the Patriots offense this year.

It's also worth noting that we already have a template for what should qualify as a good game against the Patriots offensively for Eli. In week 17 Eli managed to put up 35 points, in the Super Bowl he only managed to put up less than half of that.

Eli's Week 17 line:
22/32 4 TD 1 INT QB Rating 118.6
Eli's Super Bowl Line:
19/34 2 TD 1 INT QB Rating 87.3

Eli's day was average at best, he's capable of playing better football, but didn't.

idk why I keep arguing with you about this stuff, this is the same guy who was telling me that Carson Palmer > Brady/P. Manning at the beginning of this thread.

[Vegeta2711]

That's like saying Joe Montana didn't play a good game in Super Bowl XVI because he had played better during the regular season. You don't have to have a great statistical performance to 'play well'.

Part of the reason I was rooting for the Giants is just to see so many of the tool Pats fans finally shut the fuck up for once. They completely infested al the football message boards I go too.

[Smmenen]

Allright, fine, let's take the empirical approach to this. The average number of points allowed per game by the Patriots defense was 17. Quite a coincidence, 274 Points allowed in the regular season and 49 allowed in 3 playoff games. (274 + 49 = 323  323/19=17) A good argument against the validity of this number would be to point out that some of these points were scored in junk time with the Patriots playing prevent defense, but I think this is more than cancelled out by the opportunities created by the defense that no other team was able to produce against the Patriots offense this year.

It's also worth noting that we already have a template for what should qualify as a good game against the Patriots offensively for Eli. In week 17 Eli managed to put up 35 points, in the Super Bowl he only managed to put up less than half of that.

Eli's Week 17 line:
22/32 4 TD 1 INT QB Rating 118.6
Eli's Super Bowl Line:
19/34 2 TD 1 INT QB Rating 87.3

Eli's day was average at best, he's capable of playing better football, but didn't.

idk why I keep arguing with you about this stuff, this is the same guy who was telling me that Carson Palmer > Brady/P. Manning at the beginning of this thread.

The problem with your empirical approach is that it relies upon data that is unreliable for the conclusion your trying to make.

The quarterback rating idea is almost worthless in a single game.   It's ok as a long-range statistic.  It would be like playing 3 games of Belcher v. Control Slaver and saying that the match up is 66-33. 

To the point however, it doesn't *prove* that one QB played better than another. It's fairly weak inductive evidence. 

For instance, Eli's interception hugely impacted his QB rating.  Yet, that "interception" was anything but.  It was an EXTREMELY unlucky bounce.   Eli had NO interceptions in three previous playoff games and then only one in the super bowl, one that you have to discount as it was a very, very unlucky bounce.

[Dxfiler]

Meh.  The better team on that night won.

Key phrase: on that night

It's no secret how you beat the Patriots.  Plenty of analysts all said the same thing: You setup very long offensive drives to keep Brady off the field as long as possible, you pressure the hell out of Brady when he's on the field, and here's the big one:
Your quarterback needs to play at a higher level than normal.

Finally, if you manage to do all of that, you still need the Pats to not seize opportunities to steal the game away... which they managed to do in every single close game this season prior to the Superbowl.

The Giants did all of the above, and the  Pats still had at least 4 different opportuinities to put the game away in the final 10 minutes.  The most obvious example being the 'glue catch.'  It simply should've never happened.  Multiple defenders literally pulling ELi down and we still couldn't tackle him.  Eli could never win another game and Tyree could never make another catch and they'll still go down as legends for that play.  Thanks alot defense :p

Personally I'm more upset about Samuel not hauling that ball in with under 2 minutes to go.  He intercepts that the game is over.
He didn't, and now I'm not going to care that much when the Pats don't re-sign him.  16 interceptions over 2 seasons is amazing, but he didn't make the biggest catch of his career and it's going to cost him.

Anyway, kudos to the Giants.  They outplayed the Patriots on that night.  I'm happy for genuine Giants fans... not for all the anti-pats fans who jumped on the bandwagon when the Giants got hot.  Those people couldn't care less about who beat the Pats as long as someone did.  The genuine Giants fans are the people who deserved the win so congrats to them (im looking at you oneofchaos :p).

Oh well.  There's always next season.  And the one after that.  And the one after that.  As long as Brady/Bellichick are at the helm I'm not too worried about it, and I don't think any true Pats fans are.

- Dave   

[oneofchaos]

Well I'm glad it was a close superbowl.  My worst fear is that we'll have a blowout superbowl.  These are supposed to be the best two teams in the NFL, not your average blowout game.  When I heard patriots win 42-10 as predictions, I wondered what people where thinking pregame.  I do like the Patriots and I liked them before their victory over the rams.  However, my dad's father died a giants fan and wanted to see Straham in a superbowl victory before he retired.  He loved Straham the way people idolize Brady.  I began loving the giants at age 5 with those awesome logos and blue t-shirts.  Years later I still love them, and i got the opportunity to see Straham win a superbowl.  Now hopefully he doesn't go out and retire because of this, because he'll be in another one soon.