WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7)

[Crankster]

In my admittedly limited testing with the deck I have found that Patron Wizard really wins games, especially with all the lean manabases to capitalize on, more than three is probably too many though for obvious reasons.
The matchups it really shines in are flash, GT and GAT. It's less useful agains ichorid and stax, though you can sometimes lock stax under their own spheres with two wizards in play (including le patron). Basicly Patron Wizard gives you mana denial that works even agains the low mana decks of today, I love it to bits.

[Duncan]

Eric,

Can you explain how you play pre-board against stax? In testing I found that to be one of the hardest games to play, especially on the draw. Thanks!

[agesga]

Another interesting wizard to consider could be:
Rayne, Academy chancellor
it is only useful agains't certain matchups, so it might deserve a place on the sideboard.
(Decks abusing on recoursive strip mine / wasteland,
swords to plowshares
or boomerang-like effects).

[Vale_psionic]

How do you deal with early Chalice @2 post board? You only have 2 Flux and the vials. I'll play more CC1 or CC3 threats against stax.

In the maindeck i'll play one more land and one less gush. You really need 2 lands in play on turn two otherwise you'll lose. Gush is an amazing spell,but to cast it you need a second land 
And i really want room for 2-3 sprites, they're amazing!

[Duncan]

How do you deal with early Chalice @2 post board? You only have 2 Flux and the vials. I'll play more CC1 or CC3 threats against stax.

Besides your creatures, which can be put into play with vial, you don't have that many 2cc spells. Crucible is a far bigger threat

In the maindeck i'll play one more land and one less gush. You really need 2 lands in play on turn two otherwise you'll lose. Gush is an amazing spell,but to cast it you need a second land 
And i really want room for 2-3 sprites, they're amazing!

I don't think you need the extra land. I played lots of games with hands with 1 land. You have about 8 cards (3 Brainstorm, 4 Sage of Epityr, 1 Ancestral Recall) to dig for the second land. One of my favorite plays is:
turn 1: land, vial
turn 2: vial in sage during upkeep

[ErkBek]

@Rayne: If I'm resolving 3 cost spells vs. Stax, I'd much rather be casting Flux.

So for reference

4 Leyline
2 Jitte
2 Echoing Truth
2 Disenchant
2 Kataki
2 Energy Flux
1 Plains

Stax
-4 MisD
-3 Sprite
-1 Stormscape Apprentice
-1 Patron Wizard
-2 Mindcensor
+3 Leyline
+2 Disenchant
+2 Flux
+2 Kataki
+1 Plains

Vial and Energy Flux have been really key in winning the stax matchup for me. Kataki has been great when he comes down only turn 2/3, but after that Kataki isn't usually enough.

I've decided Mishra's Factory is really problematic for the Wizards. I'm not sure how to address it totally either. Basically, factory wins in combat vs. all of my guys. I think I need Pithing Needle to deal, plus it hits welder/wastelands. The only problem I've got with Needle is it's unsynergy with Flux/Kataki. I think I'm going to try these changes to the board

-2 Kataki
-2 Disenchant
-1 Plains
+1 Flux
+3 Needle
+1 Vial

The board I had, put me at about 55:45 for post boarded games. It wasn't totally ineffective, but it's worth trying other things, especially since game 1 is at about 33:67. For game ones, you pretty much have to just hope going on the beats, fetching out basic islands on turn 1, and Gushing in response to wastes works out. Now that Sprite is gone, I'm not finding Chalice @2 that big of a threat, Chalice @1 is actually a bigger threat since much of your 2 drops can be vialed in still vs. Chalice.

[Jank Golem]

Interesting deck, my one question is about it functions in the early game. You seem to have strong chances once you get Gush online and get a significant number of creatures on the board, but how do you stop early threats? You do have 8 pitch counters but the 4 Misds are very limited outside of a counter war. Perhaps running something like Disrupt or splashing a color for REB/Thoughtseize/Duress could help in the early game.

What early threats are you worried about? Basically there are 5 in the entire metagame (since fast ritual combo is mostly non existent)

1) Ancestral Recall
2) Duress / Thoughtseize
3) Dryad / Tog / DSC
4) Fastbond
5) Flash

I've pretty much got it all covered with my disruption package. For flash I've got leylines on the board, and once I drop MM or VMP, I win.

For instance Stax or Gush based decks are both able to threaten early. The earliest the fish deck can totally stabilize and answer these threats is turn 3, giving the opposing player plenty of time to set up a broken play. Running Duress or Thoughtseize allows you to slow down the early play enough so that you can make into the more favorable lategame.

You're just going to have to play the deck. Duress, Thoughtseize, REB, and Disrupt aren't going to help out your stax matchup at all. I'm still not sure what you're talking about when you say "Gush deks threaten early" since they don't baring a turn 1 or 2 Fastbond.

Let me clarify my point, Gush decks can resolve relevant spells that lead to a significant advantage before WU Tang Wizards can fully get online; which usually takes three turns. For instance a Gush deck given three turns on the play could do something like,

Turn 1: Duress
Turn 2: Scroll->Ancestral
Turn 3: Cast Ancestral with two mana open for other spells

You do have 8 pitch counters which help some, but Gush decks have as much if not more disruption in that particular area. Giving the opponent three turns execute their game plan, with little impedance from the opponent is not a good idea. I think Duress/Thoughtseize would be the best choices to help in this area because they are also solid against Stax as well as other Gush decks.

[ErkBek]

Turn 1: Duress
Turn 2: Scroll->Ancestral
Turn 3: Cast Ancestral with two mana open for other spells

And why should I be so afraid of this start? I'm going to cast a disruptive man on turn 1, 2, and 3. There's a fairly good chance that I'll just Meddling Mage there ancestral after they scroll it up, or I'll locate another counter. Even if they resolve ancestral, I'm usually not too worried, unless my hand sucks. It's not like I bend over to a duress. You're going to have to play the deck.

[Moxlotus]

Interesting deck, my one question is about it functions in the early game. You seem to have strong chances once you get Gush online and get a significant number of creatures on the board, but how do you stop early threats? You do have 8 pitch counters but the 4 Misds are very limited outside of a counter war. Perhaps running something like Disrupt or splashing a color for REB/Thoughtseize/Duress could help in the early game.

What early threats are you worried about? Basically there are 5 in the entire metagame (since fast ritual combo is mostly non existent)

1) Ancestral Recall
2) Duress / Thoughtseize
3) Dryad / Tog / DSC
4) Fastbond
5) Flash

I've pretty much got it all covered with my disruption package. For flash I've got leylines on the board, and once I drop MM or VMP, I win.

For instance Stax or Gush based decks are both able to threaten early. The earliest the fish deck can totally stabilize and answer these threats is turn 3, giving the opposing player plenty of time to set up a broken play. Running Duress or Thoughtseize allows you to slow down the early play enough so that you can make into the more favorable lategame.

You're just going to have to play the deck. Duress, Thoughtseize, REB, and Disrupt aren't going to help out your stax matchup at all. I'm still not sure what you're talking about when you say "Gush deks threaten early" since they don't baring a turn 1 or 2 Fastbond.

Let me clarify my point, Gush decks can resolve relevant spells that lead to a significant advantage before WU Tang Wizards can fully get online; which usually takes three turns. For instance a Gush deck given three turns on the play could do something like,

Turn 1: Duress
Turn 2: Scroll->Ancestral
Turn 3: Cast Ancestral with two mana open for other spells

You do have 8 pitch counters which help some, but Gush decks have as much if not more disruption in that particular area. Giving the opponent three turns execute their game plan, with little impedance from the opponent is not a good idea. I think Duress/Thoughtseize would be the best choices to help in this area because they are also solid against Stax as well as other Gush decks.

This deck really doesn't get bothered by that kind of a start.  That type of start still doesn't deal with turn 1 Stormscape Apprentice, turn 2 Meddling Mage/voidmage, turn 3 Patron Wizard/Mindcensor.  In fact, my game plan would be crushing his.  GAT can have that type of start--they still have to deal with my guys. Tempo>card advantage.  Unless they can combo me out in the first 2 turns and deal with my 8 pitch counters, I'm not worried.

Of course, judgint from this thread you seem to not agree that stopping dryads are a viable way to stop GAT and believe stopping draw is the only way, so I can understand why you think stopping early gushes and ancestrals are key.  They really aren't.  Gush is the epitome of anti-tempo unless they find their fastbond.  Merchant Scroll for Ancestral is almost as bad of a tempo black hole.  You won't beat Gush.dec by by trying to stop what they are best at (drawing cards), you attack them somewhere else where they are weak.  Gush.dec has a hard time dealing with lots of small, disruptive creatures that can deal with a big dryad/tog/dsc.

[Outlaw]

Is this a deck that would be able to abuse Thorns of Amethyst?  I havent had the chance to really test the deck out but I think it could do some nasty things with a sphere that doesnt affect 75% of the deck?

[ErkBek]

Is this a deck that would be able to abuse Thorns of Amethyst?  I havent had the chance to really test the deck out but I think it could do some nasty things with a sphere that doesnt affect 75% of the deck?

Not really since the deck really isn't that fast (typically kills turn 6-7). Pretty much on turn 2-4 you're casting creatures that lock out your opponent and put them on a clock.

[Irenicus]

I tested Kobefan's last list vs. Gat and a DD-GT-Hybrid yesterday and was impressed. It's quite difficult for Gat to handle all your wizards and Vial just wins you the game if they don't have an explosive start. 4 Misdirection make sure, that their easy way of getting cardadvantage (Scroll => AR) gets a lot more difficult for gat-players.
At the moment I am thinking about playing this deck in a tournament this weekend. I am sick of playing Gat and my petdeck (UBr Long) isn't that viewable in the current metagame.
I know, that my testing yesterday was limited, but here are some suggestions:
1) First of all I think that 3 Islands and 4 Tundras are a better land-configuration, because vs. deck with Wastelands you still have 7 Fetchies/3 Islands/3 Vials/4 Gush. Vs other decks like Gat it's important to find a white source without losing to much tempo. First turn StP can be important and sometimes you need to activate 2 Apprentice. Therefore I would make this little change.
2) Vial is just sick in this deck. Sometimes it's a little slow but other than that it wins the lategame. It's a card that I want to see in every opening hand. Might up the count to 4.
3) I would either cut one StP or one Mindcensor for the 4th Vial, because a) they are white , b) I don't think that I need 4 StP main in my meta, c) I normally don't want to see 2 Mindcensor, because they don't pitch.

I might try this changes:
- Island, - StP, - Mindcensor, + Tundra, + BS, + Vial

I know that are just minimal changes, but kobefan's current maindeck is just that good!

Regarding the SB:
I won't have time to test a SB, therefore I am talking in theory. I think that Flash (if they got broken hands), Stax, Ichorid and Oath should be adressed with the SB.
In general, as kobefan said too, I don't like Flux in a deck with Vial/Needle after Sideboarding. Therefore I looked for better options vs. Stax and found Trygon Predator. Maybe it's not viewable, but in theory it should work with 4 Vials and 1 Tropical. You can board them vs. Oath too.
My current SB (not tested!) is this:
1x Swords to Plowshare
1x Tropical Island
2x Echoing Truth
3x Trygon Predator
3x Pithing Needle
4x Leyline of the Void
1x open Slot

I think that without Disenchant, Kataki you don't need a Plains vs. Stax/Wastelands.

I hope, that some ideas might help making this deck better.

Irenicus

[ErkBek]

Predator seems like a really cool idea and it's something that might just work out. A flying beater that takes a perm each time might be the right solution to our problem. Flying over factories and taking out the most problematic lock piece every turn seems mighty nice. The 3 Needles on the board seem useful for dealing with stopping there plans to weld their way out of the mess.

I think if you're going to run Predators though, you might as well just run 4 since you've got the space. I'm going to give the beast a try too and give you're board a go next time I play. Also, if oath or Dragon ever come back big, the light green splash allows us to run Ray of Revelation. (this probably won't ever be needed unless Ichorid or Flash gets something restricted in the future)

[agesga]

I've decided Mishra's Factory is really problematic for the Wizards. I'm not sure how to address it totally either. Basically, factory wins in combat vs. all of my guys.

Consider sideboarding back to basics for many reasons:
- you are using basic lands
- additionally you have gush
- even more: you have another way to play creatures rather than paying the mana cost (by vial)

It could be a way to stop mishra's factory and slowing down other decks.

[TopSecret]

I've decided Mishra's Factory is really problematic for the Wizards. I'm not sure how to address it totally either. Basically, factory wins in combat vs. all of my guys.

     You could sideboard Mirror Entity.
He makes all your guys pwn in combat, he protects against Massacre, and he (super)counts as a Wizard.
Although, playing Gush may be a bit of a deterant, because his ability takes 3+mana to pwn with.

[Crankster]

Mirror entity is perfect for the SB. Is it really needed main though?

[ErkBek]

Mirror Entity has no place in the maindeck or sideboard. You've got to spend a total of 6 mana to protect from massacre/clasm. There's a lot more efficient ways to do things.

[Crankster]

Yes, if you want to use all of it in one turn. If you are able to shell out 3 mana once you are probably able to do it twice aswell. I understand what you mean though, I tested him some this evening and it was a tad on the slow side.

[ErkBek]

I've been trying maindeck Jittes and have been really liking them, however sometimes they tie up your mana too much. Here's what I've been trying lately
// Lands
    4  Flooded Strand
    3  Polluted Delta
    3  Tundra
    1  Snow-Covered Island
    3  Island

// Creatures
    4  Meddling Mage
    4  Voidmage Prodigy
    4  Sage of Epityr
    3  Aven Mindcensor
    2  Patron Wizard
    2  Stormscape Apprentice

// Spells
    4  Swords to Plowshares
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Time Walk
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Gush
    4  Force of Will
    1  Mox Sapphire
    3  Brainstorm
    3  AEther Vial
    3  Misdirection
    2  Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1  AEther Vial
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 4  Trygon Predator
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 2  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Tropical Island

[cheddercaveman]

Would we be better suited using Chain of Vapor instead of StP?  Swords is pretty decent against GAT and EmptyGifts, but so is Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth.  Just wondering if any testing has been done with either of those in the maindeck?

[agesga]

What does Tang means? (from the title)

[TimDeluxeIt]

WU refers to the colors.....Wu Tang Clan is a group of rappers, its a play on words

http://www.wutang-corp.com/

[agesga]

Has anyone tested this deck agains't Vroman's 5C Bhagdad Bob?
Seems quite an intetesting matchup.

[sushicutta]

What do you guys think about this three Wizards:

Aphetto Grifter http://magiccards.info/on/en/65.html

+ realy good control piece.
+ yet another FOW target!
- Cost of (b)(2) will eventually be to much, but if we play with vial it could work.
- 1/1 is definitely not a finishing guy

Willbender http://magiccards.info/le/en/58.html

+ 1/2 for (B)(1) or 2/2 for (3) is flexible
+ can get into the missdirection slot.
+ realy effective in the middle and lategame, is able to stop bombs.
+ gives an fear part, cause poeple won't be knowing if it perhaps is a voidmage prodigy.
+ yet another FOW target!
- 1/2 or 2/2 is definitely not a finishing guy

Magus of the Unseen http://magiccards.info/ia/en/82.html

+ can stop bombs like platinum angel, DSC, Mind Slaver, cruisible of worlds, ....
+ costs only (b)(1)
+ yet another FOW target!
- perhaps just a sideboard choice
- 1/1 is definitely not a finishing guy

I am sometimes playing a WU Fishzards.dec (fish wizards) and i am playing these three guys. perhaps the Willbender is the strongest one.

Think of it and let me know what you mean about this.

I would play the List posted by kobefan with

-1 Misdirection
-1 Sage of Epityr
+2 Willbender

[Crankster]

Raising the average manacost in this deck is a bad idea. Besides, the wizards you've mentioned are narrow, personally I belive they are too narrow even for the SB.
How much have you played this deck? Mis-d is very important for forcing through spells, it and FOW are the glue of the deck. Sage is very important as a good one-drop.

[Irenicus]

I played this deck on Sunday and got 2nd. It was a sanctioned tournament with 19 players and therefore T8 wasn't played out. I went 4:1 and lost only to manascrew (first game mulligan to 4, 2nd game I kept with SoE and one land, found an Aether Vial, but my opponent who played an "aggro-Flash-Deck" has his only strip-effect). I won vs 2x UB-Mask, Tyrant-Oath and MonoBlue-Stifle-Dreadnought.dec.

Here is a link to my decklist:

http://www.trader-online.de/turniere/Decks/2007-10-T1.html

[ErkBek]

Just an update, I'm not really caring for the maindeck Jittes at the moment. They're just too mana intensive and clunky for game ones, but I'd definitely consider keeping them on the sideboard since games 2 and 3 usually take a little longer. I don't know for sure though since this deck already has a pretty fair aggro matchup.

I played this deck on Sunday and got 2nd. It was a sanctioned tournament with 19 players and therefore T8 wasn't played out. I went 4:1 and lost only to manascrew (first game mulligan to 4, 2nd game I kept with SoE and one land, found an Aether Vial, but my opponent who played an "aggro-Flash-Deck" has his only strip-effect). I won vs 2x UB-Mask, Tyrant-Oath and MonoBlue-Stifle-Dreadnought.dec.

Here is a link to my decklist:

http://www.trader-online.de/turniere/Decks/2007-10-T1.html

Nicely done Felix!

Unfortunately, I didn't get to make the tournament here last weekend, so seeing the deck do well still feels rewarding. Is there any cards you you'd change from this list? Also, do you board in Predators vs. Fish and Bob-Mask decks?

I'm going to start running your list since I haven't been liking the direction Jitte has taken the deck. I'm sure a lot of you guys are happy to see that 4th Brainstorm in the deck, , I think it works since Felix is running a 4th Vial. Without that 4th vial, I don't think I'd be comfortable running all 4 Brainstorms since Brainstorm can suck sometimes when your mana is tight. Vial frees up you mana and makes brainstorm even better. I like this idea....

Sidenote: I played a couple matches vs. Phele a couple weeks ago, him running UB Mask and me running the UR version. I got stopped repeatedly, looks like white has really turned this matchup around.

[ketchupgun]

Hey

look who's a wizard!

Sower of Temptation from Lorwyn!

sorta like Threads, Drake, CM, Magus..and he flies and is unaffected by Thorn!

Sideboard slot?

[cheddercaveman]

4 mana is a little rough on this deck, and it doesnt really answer anything that echoing truth or StP don't already answer.  Besides that, the fact that he's a wizard will only be relevant with patron wizard because you'd probably never want to sac it to voidmage.  You can maybe give it a try, but I think you'll find e-truth more versatile and better for your sideboard.

[ketchupgun]

I think you're 100% right.

we we're considering him as a SB slot in Landstill in place of Threads...but I was shocked to see it was a wizard...but yeah, the casting cost is high. In landstill, at least you're running drains to pay for it.

But hey...my other two suggestions didn't suck! (aven and stormscape)