So.. Where is Doomsday?

[mistervader]

I use Quicken and Doomsday mainly for the cantrip, the fact that it pitches to FOW, and also the ability to completely eliminate the risk of going "Doomsday, pass". Yes, I can do Doomsday, win, but having an array of Quicken, Brainstorm, and Gush allows me to minimize passing the turn to my opponent, and Quicken and Street Wraith are functionally as fast as each other when you think about it. Both plays will require BBBU at least to pull off, but Quicken can do it with impunity because it's EOT.

Well, it's served me very well in my tournament circles, at least. I only recently cut it because of an increase for Chalice for 1, which is a valid problem for me in my meta. I really preferred Wraith over Bob because I combo out pretty fast, as you noticed in my tournament report post above.

As for your red sideboard, I'll consider that, what with a few Stax decks in my meta nowadays. My board has mainly been Leylines and Extirpates, then a bit of anti-artifact bounce and all-purpose bounce. Ingot Chewer/Shattering Spree sounds mad good.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I regularly hardcast Ingot Chewers off Rituals, a 3/3 body that kills off Thorn of Amethyst is actually a strong response to tempo decks.  In your case, it does something shattering spree doesn't: kill off a Chalice at 1.  Also, I'm surprised that your meta doesn't have Magus of the Moon?

[mistervader]

I regularly hardcast Ingot Chewers off Rituals, a 3/3 body that kills off Thorn of Amethyst is actually a strong response to tempo decks.  In your case, it does something shattering spree doesn't: kill off a Chalice at 1.  Also, I'm surprised that your meta doesn't have Magus of the Moon?

Only with Goblins, actually. In an unpowered meta, Magus is marginally useful only, and Gobs is never a problem. Furthermore, I run lots of basics, so Magus is not a problem at all.

P.S. Now that you mention it, you're right about Spree. I doubt I'd ever have RR to spare when I'm trying to destroy Chalice, given my manabase, even with the Volc.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Then you might want to ignore my suggestion about the volcanics and just try out the Thoughtseizes and Gushes.  Oh, and with gush...maybe 3 island, 1 swamp as your basics.

[mistervader]

Then you might want to ignore my suggestion about the volcanics and just try out the Thoughtseizes and Gushes.  Oh, and with gush...maybe 3 island, 1 swamp as your basics.

Yeah. I'm testing Thoughtseize and Gush at the moment. I might chuck out the Wraiths in favor of Quicken, though.

P.S. About Bob in the deck... ever had problems with your stacks if you had to pass the turn with him on the table? It seems difficult to tell if he's going to still be there or not (Due to removal.), giving me fits of fright trying to actually get him killed if I have to pass the turn with him on my side.

[AmbivalentDuck]

If Bob is on the table, I won't pass the turn for a Dday kill.  It means I'm seeing two cards a turn (at least) and all I need is a brainstorm, gush, or even demonic tutor/mystical/vampiric for gush.  With that amount of card advantage, though, it's less risky to just play control for a turn or two and set up a normal Will/storm kill.

[mistervader]

Fair enough. I tested him before Gush, and promptly tossed him out in favor of Quicken during the Ravnica cycle era of my deck, for the main reason of not having enough means to draw into my D-Day stack after passing the turn.

In short, I should test Bob again. Bob + Quicken + Gush, all in all. Maybe just a pair of Quickens, though.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I'm rolling to 8+ sphere decks against *online* players.  That's the only consistent weak spot right now.

That said, it hurts a lot and even 3x chewer + 2x hurkyls + 2x viashino heretic didn't help.

Youch.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I found a better zero mana (beyond dday) Gush kill.

Pile:
Ancestral
Lotus
Petal
Will
R&D

Plays out as follows:

Lotus for UUU, Ancestral, Petal for B, Will, Lotus for UUU, Petal for G, R&D (for Lotus, anything that makes storm, and Tendrils), Ancestral, Lotus, Tendrils

This is at least 12 storm, which is better than the previous free pile which only made 9 total storm.

Also, I've never seen Chalice@1 in a tourney, but online it's an issue...this is the best I can come up with:

Dday+gush:
Ingot Chewer (now maindeck)
Recall
Lotus
Will
Tendrils

Total cost: 1URBBB

[mistervader]

My main problem with 4-Gush is the Wasteland fear. Given 6-8 Duress effects, you usually open with Fetchland, Swamp, but in order to combo out on turn 2 with Gush, you MUST play a Sea, and that's dangerous if you get hit with Wasteland.

Currently, I'm really considering this split: 3 Quicken, 3 Gush, to minimize those problems. No more Bob or Wraith, since I'm going for the ASAP combo, and as I mentioned earlier, Wraith is functionally as fast as Quicken.

Any room for Ponders in this deck? How about a lone Merchant Scroll? Wouldn't one Scroll be better than Imperial Seal, since MS can get you an Ancestral or a FOW in a pinch?

[AmbivalentDuck]

My list doesn't use Seal at all.  I eat up a bunch of slots on control since I think Doomsday is worse than Grim Tutor if your goal is straight combo.

First turn wasteland is weak: they've given up their opportunity to duress you AND you've seen their hand AND they failed to put any disruption on the board.  They're stuck praying that you kept a mana light hand.  I'm not sure why you're worried about that?  Also, if you go u sea, ritual, duress, bob, you're winning whether they waste the sea or not.

Also, I've playing with piles that can ignore chalice @ 1 and I have a new brainstorm pile that doesn' t need led.

Lotus
Ritual
Will
MD
RD

And anti chalice @1:

This requires 3 colorless and works off wraith or passing the turn:
Gush
Lotus
Wraith
MD
RD -> Sins of the Past and RD

Or off Gush, 1UR:
Ingot Chewer
Ancestral
Lotus
Will
Tendrils (Only 8 storm without help)

[mistervader]

First turn wasteland is weak

Y'know what? You're actually right! I've been too scared of Wasteland.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I popped a fast bond, gush #4, and some merchant scrolls into the deck along with some Xantid Swarms in the sideboard. 

I was not impressed.  Unlike Dryad, Dday requires BBB and therefore Ritual for consistency.  Scroll/Gush has about zero synergy with that.  About the only thing I learned from the experiment is that Dark Conf really gives the deck a lot more staying power than it would otherwise have and Gush is great going off, but not great as an engine in this deck.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Just split 1st with Vroman at a nine man tourney.  Here's the current list:

// Lands
    4  Underground Sea
    1  Snow-Covered Island
    4  Polluted Delta
    2  Bloodstained Mire
    1  Swamp
    2  Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    1  Ingot Chewer
    3  Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    4  Dark Ritual
    2  Thoughtseize
    4  Duress
    4  Force of Will
    1  Mind's Desire
    1  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Empty the Warrens
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Research/Development
    3  Doomsday
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Brainstorm
    3  Gush
    1  Time Walk
    1  Chain of Vapor
    1  Extirpate
    1  Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Ingot Chewer
SB: 1  Empty the Warrens
SB: 1  Fire/Ice
SB: 3  Extirpate
SB: 1  Sins of the Past
SB: 2  Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2  Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 1  Tormod's Crypt

As discussed earlier, Chewer is now main to deal with nasty nasty vulnerability to artifacts.  The biggest change is Engineered Explosives.  They let you kill T-Goyf, Spheres, Thorns, Chalices etc for less mana than pretty much any other reasonable option and they let you spread it out.  Extirpate can take FoW, crypt can't...so that choice is easy.

There was some major lucksacking that landed me my wins/position so:

Round 1: bye

Round 2: Vroman 5-color Bazaar aggro pilotted by Jaker
Game 1:  I play first turn confidant off swamp and petal.  He strips the swamp.  I don't see another land, even with confidant, for 5 turns.
Game 2:  Turn 2 Dday, Gush -> kill
Game 3:  Turn 2 Time Walk, pass, Dday, Gush -> kill

Round 3: Draw into the top 4 with my top 4 opponent

Top 4: Cole with Bomberman (correct me if I'm wrong)
Game 1: Turn 3 Dday, Gush -> kill, taking Chalice with thoughtseize the previous turn and seeing nothing relevant.
Game 2: Early Crypt and Chalice @ 1 against me.  He beats with Trinket Mage 'til I'm at 3.  I cast DConf, run some spells into Chalice, and Tendrils for 8.  Many turns later he drops Chalice @ 2.  I run 5 spells into chalices and cast Mind's Desire for 5 revealing 3 fetches, a vamp, and Thoughtseize. Later, I run many spells into both chalices, Dday to put 4 FoW on top my library, and cast EtW. 

Top 2: Split with Vroman.