Dawn of the Dead

[MustFindBeer]

Do we have a list of a 5c version of this?

I play where there is a lot of aggro could firestorm be a good fit in the deck?

[BC]

Vroman's list as of 1/8/08:

4 brass
3 waste
2 riftportal
2 paradise
1 scrubland
1 strip
1 urborg
7 mox
1 maze
4 bazaar
4 dconf
4 tgoyf
4 thorn
4 squee
4 plow
4 thoughtseize
2 jotun
2 gadteeg
2 zombfest
1 recall
1 walk
1 balance
1 crop
1 loam
side
4 hideseek
4 extirpate
3 heretic
3 kill pact
1 maze ith

[vroman]

I changed the deck a little. that list
-2 jotun
-1 scrub
+2 fanatic
+1 badland
side
2 fanatic
1 tabernacle
2 slaughter pact
3 heretic
3 hide/seek
4 extirpate

[elgoff]

HI everyone!

I played Dawn of the Dead again this weekend at Toronto (Double Lotus Tournament).

Format: Vintage
64 Participants in MAIN Event.
6 rounds of Swiss.
- Followed by T8 Playoffs!!!
Tournament Organizer: Untouchable

I did 3 - 2 - 1 loosing in 6th round made me miss the TOP 8 (and the guy who beat me that game didn't pass...I would had pass 'cause I had the best tie breakers...)

Game 1: WIN! (2 - 1) vs TK Nauts
Game 2: DRAW! (1 - 1) vs GAT (Slow play) (This guy made Top8)
Game 3: WIN! (2 - 1) vs Gush Storm
Game 4: WIN! (2 - 0) vs "BGW" looked like a mirror match but in the end it wasn't.
Game 5: LOST! (2 - 1) vs MUD (This guy made Top8)
Game 6: LOST! (2 - 0) vs Tyrant Oath

I'll do a little overview of the day and my report with my decklist later on.

[Liiva]

So i played with DotD again today, though this time it didn't do that well

I played almost the same list as last time, but added 2 riftstone portals and a crop rotation. I also used extirpates instead of leylines in the SB (leylines aren't that good if you can't protect them)

Game 1 vs Hulk Flash (win)
I duress away an early Flash and he pretty much fizzles after that.
Second match was kinda weird, i duress away a flash and extirpate it, then we both stall for a while untill i find a confidant and goyf. I thoughtseize him a bit later on seeing 2 hulks, 3 Virulent Slivers and a summoners pact.

Game 2 vs a TPS variant (loss)
I thoughtseize him turn 1 and he shows me necropotence, 2 rituals, an imperial seal and a petal. I don't have a fast hand so i go for necropotence.. looking back now i should probably have gone for the petal. He topdecks a will and gets his necropotence in play. I lose shortly after to a small tendrills followed by an EtW.
Second match, we both stall at a certain point but he gets a necropotence and wins.

Game 3 vs Drain TPS (loss)
He draws tons of cards and manages to win 4 out of 5 rolls from a mana crypt. I get him to 1 or 2 life but he tendrills me, i stp my goyf and drop to 2 life. We're both in topdeck mode (i have a bazaar online though) but I draw 2 confidants and 2 thoughtseizes and some more useless stuff, he hardcasts a colossus and i don't find a plow in time.
Can't really remember what happened in game 2, but my discard isn't very effective against him and he combos me out eventually.

Game 4 vs a homebrew deck (win)
I win both games without much resistance.

Game 5 vs aggro stax (loss)
I don't know what he's playing and i keep a decent hand but a bit low on mana, he strips my bayou and casts a chalice set on 2. I scoop when a juggernaut equiped with sword of fire/ice kills my lonely confidant.
Second match i don't have white mana and i can't plow his t1 metalworker, he goes pretty broken turn 2 with double juggernaut and tangle wire. I can't keep up and lose.

Storm combo decks are pretty rough for DotD, alot of people were playing Oath. GAT, Flash and DeezNoughts were around as well. I might try Vroman's 5c list the next time or just go Ichorid if proxies aren't allowed

[Razvan]

Vroman's list as of 1/8/08:

some clarification:
2 paradise = Undiscovered Paradise?
7 mox = 5 mox, lotus, petal? or diamond?

btw, sorry for being a few days behind.,

also, cappy tells me that 7 mox is actually 7 mox. interesting.

[Polynomial P]

Paradise is undiscovered paradise. Vroman has opted for 7 mox (5 good moxen, mox diamond, chrome mox). I prefer Lotus over chrome mox.

[elgoff]

Honorable mention to Undiscovered Paradise in the 5c decklist. WOW! this land is just amazing in that decklist. I'll cut down 1x City of Brass and add another Paradise in...They're so good, they really saved my day!!

[DarkfnTemplar]

I just split a twister with Jacob. I think there were about 26 people there. I went 3-1-1 in swiss (Lost to Ichorid), and beat ichorid and tyrant oath in top 8.
I played 6 duress effects, 2 grunts, 2 loam, and 2 pacts in the sb.
This deck wrecks combo, period. Probably the best match up now.
The deck might need some more rays sbed if it wants to compete at an advantage against tyrant oath.

[dawgie]

I have been playing this deck for some time now.
Landed a 3rd / 4th spot in one of our tournies (losing to Mono-R Shops because of a greedy play) and winning a small tourney made out of 8 people (well only 8 people came... we were sad pandas during the start but still had fun.  )

I really love this deck right now as it has very good matchups against a lot of decks. I love to duke it out with combo especially on the second game siding in Thorn of Amethysts.  I do fear Flash though especially if Flash goes on the play.

I play 8 discard effects mainboard but will be cutting it down to 6 (4 Duress, 2 Thoughseize, 2 Hymn to Tourach) and adding 2 Extirpates in the main. I made it that way because I feel that the deck has a lot of lands. I cut mine to 24 and its still running fine.

[DarkfnTemplar]

Yeah, but 8 of them are bazaars and strips. This deck likes land.
The deck shouldnt lose to mono brown or red shop. The only way you lose is if they have the absolute nuts and you didnt draw a confidant, infestation, or loam. I also hear that if they keep an all mana hand and bazaar into double stax, thats pretty good too. Turn one goyf/bob is really bad for them.

[the boogie man]

Does anyone run the 3 color version of this? I don't particularly care for the 5 colored version, And was wondering what the general consensus was, if there was one, about which version seemsto be more streamlined or powerful.

[BC]

The deck shouldnt lose to mono brown or red shop... I also hear that if they keep an all mana hand and bazaar into double stax, thats pretty good too.

They can also win if you play the deck like you can't read and are partially retrded.  You should have a Lotus right now.

[Liiva]

Last sunday i played a list that looked alot like vroman's one but I decided to play hide/seek in the main and thorns in the side and swapped mogg fanatic with crypt creeper. I was expecting alot of Oath and Flash, i was right on the Oath part.

I played the following list:

   // Lands
4   Bazaar of Baghdad
2   Riftstone Portal
1   Strip Mine
2   Scrubland
1   Maze of Ith
4   City of Brass
3   Undiscovered Paradise
1   Wasteland
   
   // Creatures
4   Tarmogoyf
2   Gaddock Teeg
4   Dark Confidant
4   Squee, Goblin Nabob
2   Crypt Creeper
   
   // Spells
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Mox Diamond
1   Life from the Loam
3   Thoughtseize
4   Hide/Seek
1   Balance
2   Duress
4   Swords to Plowshares
1   Black Lotus
1   Crop Rotation
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Pearl
1   Time Walk
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Mox Sapphire
   
   // Sideboard
4   Thorn of Amethyst
3   Ray of Revelation
3   Viashino Heretic
4   Extirpate
1   Imperial Edict

Hide/Seek is pretty decent vs oath and stops flash from comboing, it's also a good answer vs Colossus while thorn basicly does nothing against all of these. Mogg fanatic doesn't do that much vs the new flash kill so i decided to go for either Offalsnout or Crypt Creeper. I chose the creeper because i don't want to skip a turn playing nothing so i have B open for Offalsnout.

There were 18 participants, here's a short report of my day:

Round 1 vs TurboLand.
Turn 2 i try to cast seek, he brainstorms in response (drawing his colossus) and lets it resolve. I chose to remove his will. Shortly after he tinkers into colossus, i have a maze of ith but he finds his strip mine before I find an answer.

Game 2 i open with undiscovered paradise -> thoughtseize which get forced. His turn he casts double mox + strip mine into crucible. I have a crypt creeper in my hand but no moxes. I never get to 2 mana and he eventually combos me out.

Round 2 vs TyrantOath
I start and get a turn 1 Gaddock Teeg off a mox diamond (discarding riftstone portal) and bazaar. He opens with a orchard + mox into oath, i topdeck a hide/seek and try to hide his oath. He forces but i remind him he can't cast it with a Teeg on the table. I soon dig into another hide/seek and my creatures finish him.

Game 2 he starts with orchard + mox into oath. I have a hide/seek but can't cast it on turn 1. He gets to activate his oath and wins fairly shortly after.

Game 3 i have a hand with hide/seek, extirpate, ray of revelation and mana. I open with mox diamond (discarding riftstone portal) + land and pass the turn. He again opens with orchard + petal into oath. I ray it EoT and extirpate it on my turn. He tries to build up a stormcount later on and brainfreeze me but doesn't get enough storm and loses to creature beats.

Round 3 vs U/B MaskNought
This is a pretty good matchup for me since i have 8 MB answers to dreadnought and 12 after boarding. He keeps a slow hand and i have an answer to every threat he lays down.

Game 2 he opens with mox, land, lotus, confidant, tinker into platinum angel. I topdeck a balance and reset the board. After that this game is pretty simular to game 1, i have an answer to every creature he lays down and win eventually.

Round 4 vs TyrantOath
Game 1 was kinda weird, he opens with land + mox into oath but doesn't have an orchard. I get some pretty massive card advantage online through 2 bazaars with 4 squees and i hide away his oath 4 times.. but he keeps drawing them. I decided to load up my hand with creatures and StP's and go all out but he oaths his library away and combos me out with brain freeze.

Game 2
There wasn't much time left but i duressed away an oath and extirpated it. We went to turns and i couldn't kill him in time so he won.

Round 5 vs Flash (with reveillark kill)
Game 1 i get lucky with him only drawing combo pieces and he dies to creature beats.

Game 2 he kills me on turn 1.

Game 3 i resolve a Seek removing his reveillark but he still starts his combo going hulk -> feeder + body double -> getting mogg fanatic and body snatcher (discarding platz in his hand) and saccing the snatcher giving him a 3/3 feeder, a mogg fanatic and a platinum angel. This was more than enough to kill me.

So i missed top 8 with 2-3-0, but overall the deck did pretty decently. I made 1 big mistake in round 4 vs the oath player which costed me the match (using crypt creeper on his flash of insight instead of keeping it in hand for brain freeze or yawgmoth's will)

/Liiva

[vroman]

crypt keeper is a good find.
Im just about ready to put Recall in the side, w so many decks running 3-4 misdirections main.
I also like the idea of hide/seek main over amethyst.

[Sextiger]

Have you tried Withered Wretch at all instead of Creeper?

[Liiva]

Have you tried Withered Wretch at all instead of Creeper?

Not in this list but I used to run it in older DotD lists, but i think crypt creeper is better in the current metagame. The sac-ability on creeper is a nice bonus vs ichorid and it's free to use unlike wretch's ability.
EDIT: forgot to mention that wretch BB manacost means it can't be reliably cast on turn 1.

[vroman]

faerie macabre has breathed new confidence for this deck with me. I cut gaddock teeg also, since flash and oath are substantial parts of the meta now, and teeg barely impacts them.

[WilD]

Does that mean we can get your current list Vroman? Are the Faerie Macabre's sideboard or maindeck - they seem pretty narrow, but I guess so is teeg to an extent.
EDIT: Is Vexing Shusher a card for this deck or am I way out?

[the boogie man]

I think that heap doll could find its way into this deck, Insead of the creeper.

[DarkfnTemplar]

I'm currently testing teeg versus macbre.
I've found teeg very useful, but sometimes it just is a nuisance in your hand. With flash become more and more annoying, I like the idea of having a turn 0 protection, uncounterable card against them main.
Although, GAT is also still huge. I have no idea what ill play by gencon besides not ichorid.

[vroman]

current list

4 brass
2 paradise
1 waste
1 strip
1 tombyawg
1 riftportal
1 badland
1 scrubland
7 mox
4 bazaar
4 dconf
4 tgoyf
4 squee
4 faerie macabre
4 plow
4 thoughtsz
4 hideseek
1 loam
1 recall
1 walk
1 crop
1 dconsult
1 vtutor
1 balance
1 mazith
1 zombfest
side
4 duress
3 fanatic
3 rayrev
3 heretic
2 maze

[OwenTheEnchanter]

What is the point of Faerie Macabre? Sure it 'stops flash' in that they dont kill you the same turn they cast flash but it still seems weak.  If they expect it either because you revealed it to bob, they duress/seized you, or they know its in your deck because you posted it on a public forum they just play careful with their pacts and once they flash just get a bunch of dudes. And youd sure feel stupid if someone was packing slivers main. So outside the flash matchup it can remove two cards from a mountainous ichorid graveyard or just be a grey ogre with an awkward casting cost.

- Owen

[DarkfnTemplar]

If they know that you have it in your hand due to one of the reasons below, that means your most likely not going to need it for the reasons you have it. Especially in Dawn/5c bob, if they dont kill you turn 1, its going to be rough even without macbre.
Yes, slivers do make this obsolete, but seeing that the good turn 1 protection versions get raped by it, I would take may chances seeing I'm playing aggro with 4 main deck removal spots.
However, I will agree that its not as impossible to play around as it is being made out to be. But I guarantee by gencon that it wont see heavy play. Its merely another tool to use against Flash.
Yes, flash's diversity of kills make it very hard to hate out. But there is far more diversity in ways to hate it out. Therefore, I think flash's chances of T8ing anytime soon are still low unless they hit a homogeneous wave of hate. That's why I think Ichorid was able to t8 at gencon.
 Everyone thought that leyline instantly let them win. When they got blown up, there was no plan B.

[the boogie man]

I think that curse catcher is a huge addition to the 5c versions of this. cheap, good against ichorid and flash, and is almost never dead. I think this begs to be a 4-of.

[vroman]

I think that curse catcher is a huge addition to the 5c versions of this. cheap, good against ichorid and flash, and is almost never dead. I think this begs to be a 4-of.

definite possibility, I suppose include 1xunderground sea. what would you cut? f-macabre to board?

[Negator13]

Seems like Heap Doll would also be a good fit, over Faerie Macabre maybe. Maybe 4 Cursecatcher MD and 4 Heap Doll SB?

[the boogie man]

I like macabre more than heap doll, It's free.

Maybe the cursecatchers would be best in the main, seeing how it hlps vs. flas and ichorid anyway, except does so much more.

If I had to run a list tomorrow, It would look exactly what vroman posted, except:

-4 macabre
-1 swords
-1 hide/seek

+4 cursecatcher
+1 Underground sea
+1 duress

[credmond]

This deck seems like it will be very good in the new post 6/20 meta. It will be combining two very powerful draw engines (Bob and Bazaar Squee) and can put a 7-8 duress plan to maximum use.

With its duresses main deck and thorns and extirpates in the sideboard  it should have good game against Long combo  and Drain tendrills.

It has natural weapons against control slaver with its duresses, cheap spells, and swords.

It also has natural weapons main deck and sb against shops (tarmogoyf, bobs, life from the loam, zombie infestation, oxidize, seeds of innocence).

It also has strong weapons against oath both main deck and sideboard (duresses, swords to plowshares, rays of revelation).

This deck is more impervious to graveyard hate than ichorid and dragon. Rays come in strong to defeat leyline, and bobs + bazaars provide enough of a draw engine on their own so that leylines can almost be ignored.

Since shops and wastelands will be a force in the new meta, the GWB version seems a bit better than the 5c version.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Does this deck have what it takes to become strong contender in the new meta? Will we see in this deck something that can move in on blue's dominance and carve out a place for non-blue aggro control? Do we actually have a Green White Black deck that can compete at the high level?

[bronxie]

this is basically my deck

// Lands
    3 Scrubland
    3 Bayou
    1 Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    2 Wasteland

// Creatures
    2 Jotun Grunt
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

// Spells
    2 Zombie Infestation
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Balance
    1 Life from the Loam
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Duress
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    7 Mox


No decision on SB yet, but so far

4 thorn of amethyst
4 extirpate
X Leyline of the Void
X Solemn Simalacrum (vs gat? idk it seems like fun... maybe more basic lands if i do this)
X (underground sea + stifle package. only vs combo)
X Aven Mindcensor

What do yall think?