Dawn of the Dead

[Tempus]

I think Gaddock becomes more and more useless, due to Gush is restricted and Force/Misdirection shouldn't be a problem with 7-8 Discardeffects.
I'd play more Life from the Loam (2-3) and maybe the 4th Duress.
7 Mox means the Emerald, Jet, Pearl, Ruby, Sapphire, Chrome and Diamond?
If yes, why Diamond and no Lotus? Why Chrome Mox at all?

Why Solemn? They draw a card when they go to grave but don't do that much in play (2/2 for 4 isn't that good with 1 Basic and no Shops)
Null Rod might be an option as well vs. Storm and Shops. (No Trike and Swords sounds good to me)

[credmond]

I agree that teeg seems not so good anymore. He might have a place fighting decks that are running 4x tendrils main like confidant fueled tendrils.

Going a full 8x duress effects seems great in this deck. Extras in late game can always be bazaared away.

Darkblast presents itself as a maindeck extra creature control option to keep welders and opposing confidants in check. Bobs and welders should be big in the new meta.

[DarkfnTemplar]

I think teeg is as good as ever.
Here is why:
Shop decks- If you kill welders, they can't play any threats besides wire and karn.
Suicide,Drain, Pitch tendrils and Belcher- Belcher, ETW, and Tendrils still costs 4. This is actually the main reason why I put them in my Chicago list.
And it still beats for 2.

Here's my list i made right after the restrictions (This is for shop heavy meta. Not too much combo hate here.)

// NAME: Dawn of the Dead 4.0

// Lands
    1  Swamp
    3  Bayou
    2  Scrubland
    4  Bloodstained Mire
    2  Riftstone Portal
    1  Strip Mine
    3  Wasteland
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad

// Creatures
    4  Tarmogoyf
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Squee, Goblin Nabob
    2  Jotun Grunt
    2  Gaddock Teeg

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Diamond
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    3  Zombie Infestation
    3  Swords to Plowshares
    4  Thoughtseize
    1  Crop Rotation
    3  Life from the Loam
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Aura Shards
    1  Enlightened Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Extirpate
SB: 3  Oxidize
SB: 3  Ray of Revelation
SB: 1  Krosan Grip
SB: 1  Seeds of Innocence
SB: 1  Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1  Engineered Explosives
SB: 1  Balance

This list is dedicated to kill aggro and shops. Its a little combo and blecher heavy though. I need to see what the meta cracks out to be first.

[credmond]

Regarding your list . . .

Yea, Teeg might still make the cut here. Teeg is also good at shutting down chalice at 2 which is a problem with this deck.

Aura of Shards is interesting tech against Shops and Oath. I will have to test that out.

I am not sure about running 3x llfe from the loam and 3x zombie infestation. 2 of each always seemed like plenty to me in testing. Both are great in shops matchup though so if the meta winds up being shop crazy then I can see the wisdom of 3 each.

Enlightened tutor seems a bit limited since it only seems to grab zombie infestation or aura shards. Demonic tutor might be better here, although it doesn't help the chalice at 2 problem.

My suggestions . . .

Running 4x thorn of amethyst has potential main deck. I think fast combo and slaver will be the toughest in the new meta and thorns help out there. Of course thorns are silly when fighting shops and shop aggro in particular. But they are great at putting the damper on the dark rituals and fast mana that will be big in the new meta (I predict). It also enhances the deck's ability to make turn one plays that have a solid impact on the game state.

Darkblast is also something I keep looking at for main deck or sideboard since it is so great at shutting down welders and confidants and it dredges too.

[Liiva]

I agree with most of what Credmond said.

But instead of thorn of amethyst, wouldn't null rod be better? DotD used to run it in the past, storm combo has a hard time going off with a rod on the table and it shuts down most of control slaver's threats. I think in this new meta, null rod is overall better than thorn. Also vs combo, I think I would prefer orim's chant instead of thorn.

About extirpate, against what decks do you board them in other than ichorid? What do you take out the mainboard and what kind of cards do you target?

[DarkfnTemplar]

against stax it hits whatever you want in response to the welder
Ichorid is obv
Dargon is obv
It hits tendrils or etw in combo. However most of the time i like to use it for its 2 or 3 for 1 potential after a vamp or brainstorm. Rituals, win conditions, or whatever is in their hand after a duress effect.
After all of this hype about still playing blue, I did change the list a couple of days ago. I did cut a loam and a infestation for 2 duress and Im currently debating thorn versus rod.
Combo laughs at rod. Thorn is a bigger threat. With thorn they have to work a lot harder in order to bounce it which buys time for your goyfs. None of our hate actually beats combo. The point is to buy time for goys and more lockdown.
I do miss demonic tutor. Since I might try it out again. Once again, if blue see little to no play next week, Ill probably play something closer to that other list. Dark confidants don't outright beat shop anymore.

[Xyre]

I've been testing DotD for a while now and had moderate success with it in the past (as in, pre-restrictions). However, with the current paradigm shift, I think there are better routes to success for the deck.

For example:

Suicide Squeeze

4 Dark Confidant
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Faerie Macabre

4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Zombie Infestation
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Balance
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
4 Scrubland
1 Plains

SB:
4 Yixlid Jailer
4 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Null Rod


Concept
The deck evolved at what I saw was the merging point between traditional Suicide Black, which combines heavy disruption with cheap, effective creatures (the Suicide) and Dawn of the Dead, which has both aggressive plans and long-run card advantage engines (the Squeeze). Considering it this way, you notice that the decks overlap at key points, such as Swords to Plowshares, Thoughtseize/Duress, and Dark Confidant. From there, I went with the strategy of mixing the useful creatures and heavy disruption of Suicide Black with the efficiency and long-run plan of DotD.

Of course, both decks have problems. Suicide Black's issue is primarily that it plays bad cards. Cards like Hypnotic Specter and Hymn to Tourach are good at blunt disruption, but are less useful when it comes to strict disruptiveness. In addition, the deck plays cards like Sinkhole and Phyrexian Negator that are only narrowly useful; they serve one purpose and fall apart when that purpose is circumvented. In the meantime, DotD's problem is that it doesn't have enough efficiency, mostly due to its reliance on green. Consider the most common green cards played in the deck: Terravore, Tarmogoyf, Gaddock Teeg, and Life from the Loam; or, in other words, fatty, fatty, weak disrupter, and fake card advantage, respectively.

(on Life from the Loam; my problem with the card is that it is the very definition of useless in this kind of deck. Yes, it provides card advantage in that you're getting cards, but those cards don't do you much, with the sole exception of Wasteland. All Life from the Loam does is assist finding Squees and give you junk to pitch to Bazaar. But these purposes are not useful, and furthermore, invests the deck squarely in its late-game plan, which is inefficient. Hence, it was cut)

Card Selections
Dark Confidant: Mise!

Squee, Goblin Nabob: Obvious.

Fulminator Mage: You're probably scratching your heads. This guy is actually my MVP. If you can play him on turn 2 against Ichorid, he does double-duty by eating their Bridges and their Bazaars at the same time. This guy is the prototypical replacement for Sinkhole, as, like Magus of the Moon, he ties a body onto a useful ability for cheap. What's even better about the Fulminator is that, unlike Magus, he doesn't need to stay alive to work his magic. I've used him multiple times as an expensive Sinkhole with no regrets; he's just that good. This is one of the two cards that serves as an argument for the moxen in the deck (which I will address below).

Faerie Macabre: This used to be Yixlid Jailer, but Jailer + Squee is a nonbo. This guy gives you turn 0 interactivity, and in the late game, another body on the ground. Excellent, well-rounded card. Using him on Ichorid after they dump dredgers into their graveyard with Bazaar is always wonderful.

8 Duress: Believe it. Testing Menendian's 8 Duress GAT taught me that these are basically 1-mana, interactive counterspells. This deck usually goes turn 1 Duress, turn 2 D.conf or Bazaar, begin gaining card advantage, which suits these really well. And unlike the Hymns and Specters of old, these solve problems directly, rather than praying for randomness to come through for you.

Zombie Infestation: The keystone, of course.

Swords to Plowshares: When Thoughtseize doesn't do it.

Balance: Your backup plan. In a deck like this one that doesn't need many lands or cards in hand, this card is usually backbreaking against control and aggro alike. The only exception is that it's not good against Ichorid.

The mana base: I'm a bit concerned about it, because it's a bit spread out. White isn't a necessary color at all times, but it's valuable, and so a Magus that slips through before you can float mana into a Swords can be painful. That's one reason why the Moxen are in here, in spite of the fact that they're not good with the sideboard (indeed, sometimes it's the right choice to board out Moxen for your solutions in Shop/Stax matchups). The singleton Plains is there in case something goes wrong, although I truly wish there was a reliable way to get it.

Yixlid Jailer and Leyline of the Void: 8 cards devoted to Ichorid (and a lesser extent to Dragon).

Kataki, War's Wage: Playing Stax against GAT has taught me how painful Energy Flux is. Well, here's Energy Flux strapped to a 2/1 body. You play 4 because you desperately need one turn 2.

Null Rod: Good against Stax, great against combo. Could be Chalice of the Void, except that Chalice is less powerful in a format without Brainstorm/Ponder and because the deck is very light on cost. My least favorite card in the sideboard.

The deck has shown it has good matchups against the field - aggro, it has cheap blockers, Zombies, and StP - control, it has 8 Duress and 9 Wastelands. I haven't been able to test the stax matchup as much as I would want, so that's something to consider. Perhaps Null Rod should be something more directly harmful to them. Beyond that, though, I would say that this deck is excellent against the current metagame and suffers from fewer of the weaknesses of DotD.

[DarkfnTemplar]

Concept

(on Life from the Loam; my problem with the card is that it is the very definition of useless in this kind of deck. Yes, it provides card advantage in that you're getting cards, but those cards don't do you much, with the sole exception of Wasteland. All Life from the Loam does is assist finding Squees and give you junk to pitch to Bazaar. But these purposes are not useful, and furthermore, invests the deck squarely in its late-game plan, which is inefficient. Hence, it was cut)

This deck was made due to the printing of life from the loam and Dark confidant
1. Loam dredges for squees and this self recurring
2. Pulls out land from yard
3. You can pitch it to bazaar to generate card advantage. I don't see how it is fake. You are just paying 2 mana for 3 squees a turn.
4. You can pitch it to zombie infestation.
5. Your don't slowed down too much if they extirpate squee.
6. Strip lock
7. Loam-> Fetch-> Repeat-> Draw business
8. So many people are scared of loam in big tournaments. I have had it countered and discarded many times. Sure, they made a play mistake, but it does make the overall choices of your opponent harder.

Card Selections
Dark Confidant: Mise!

Squee, Goblin Nabob: Obvious.

Fulminator Mage: You're probably scratching your heads. This guy is actually my MVP. If you can play him on turn 2 against Ichorid, he does double-duty by eating their Bridges and their Bazaars at the same time. This guy is the prototypical replacement for Sinkhole, as, like Magus of the Moon, he ties a body onto a useful ability for cheap. What's even better about the Fulminator is that, unlike Magus, he doesn't need to stay alive to work his magic. I've used him multiple times as an expensive Sinkhole with no regrets; he's just that good. This is one of the two cards that serves as an argument for the moxen in the deck (which I will address below).

Faerie Macabre: This used to be Yixlid Jailer, but Jailer + Squee is a nonbo. This guy gives you turn 0 interactivity, and in the late game, another body on the ground. Excellent, well-rounded card. Using him on Ichorid after they dump dredgers into their graveyard with Bazaar is always wonderful.

Macabre should be sideboard. Current Dotd has a decent game 1 against ichorid already. I don't want to dedicate too much ichoird hate. Especially if it isn't changing.
You have way to many 3 costers. You will lose a lot of life with this deck.

8 Duress: Believe it. Testing Menendian's 8 Duress GAT taught me that these are basically 1-mana, interactive counterspells. This deck usually goes turn 1 Duress, turn 2 D.conf or Bazaar, begin gaining card advantage, which suits these really well. And unlike the Hymns and Specters of old, these solve problems directly, rather than praying for randomness to come through for you.

Zombie Infestation: The keystone, of course.

Swords to Plowshares: When Thoughtseize doesn't do it.

Balance: Your backup plan. In a deck like this one that doesn't need many lands or cards in hand, this card is usually backbreaking against control and aggro alike. The only exception is that it's not good against Ichorid.

The mana base: I'm a bit concerned about it, because it's a bit spread out. White isn't a necessary color at all times, but it's valuable, and so a Magus that slips through before you can float mana into a Swords can be painful. That's one reason why the Moxen are in here, in spite of the fact that they're not good with the sideboard (indeed, sometimes it's the right choice to board out Moxen for your solutions in Shop/Stax matchups). The singleton Plains is there in case something goes wrong, although I truly wish there was a reliable way to get it.

Riftstone Portal.
You never board out moxen in this deck. Turn 1 confidant versus stax is too good.

Yixlid Jailer and Leyline of the Void: 8 cards devoted to Ichorid (and a lesser extent to Dragon).

Kataki, War's Wage: Playing Stax against GAT has taught me how painful Energy Flux is. Well, here's Energy Flux strapped to a 2/1 body. You play 4 because you desperately need one turn 2.

Null Rod: Good against Stax, great against combo. Could be Chalice of the Void, except that Chalice is less powerful in a format without Brainstorm/Ponder and because the deck is very light on cost. My least favorite card in the sideboard.

The deck has shown it has good matchups against the field - aggro, it has cheap blockers, Zombies, and StP - control, it has 8 Duress and 9 Wastelands. I haven't been able to test the stax matchup as much as I would want, so that's something to consider. Perhaps Null Rod should be something more directly harmful to them. Beyond that, though, I would say that this deck is excellent against the current metagame and suffers from fewer of the weaknesses of DotD.

Jailer is a wrong choice, especially with enough grave hate.
Kataki is decent. Might be worth playing again SB.
Extirpate is a superior card to leyline. Leyline's chance of being better is the 40% chance its in your opening, your on the draw, and they turn 1 you.  Otherwise, a slow rolled extirpate is sufficient.
No ray of revelation?

[Xyre]

Note that part of the reason behind the deck is cutting green out, which gives it a more balanced game than focusing on just Tarmogoyf and a complex Zombie plan. The deck doesn't need Life from the Loam to make Infestation work. I've never once seen a game where Life from the Loam would have made the difference in a game. In the same way, there's no reason for Ray of Revelation because the deck doesn't have green.

Macabre is useful because it provides the deck with immediate answers to the graveyard, which I expect will be valuable in a format with Dragon, Ichorid, and other decks using the graveyard. It could be that Jailer is redundant, but it is a very powerful card that can't be ignored. Jailer could probably be cut. If the deck needs enchantment removal, Wispmare is probably the best option, but I'm still unsure if that's necessary. The only deck I can see will be using enchantments that can harm the deck is Oath. It's up in the air at this point if that deck will be played heavily.

I would disagree that DotD has a good enough game 1 against Ichorid to make things work. The combination of Faerie Macabre and 9 Wastelands is probably sufficient game 1, although the deck usually wants more cards to add from the board because it plays 8 Duress.

The value of turn 1 Conf. cannot be denied, which is the reason why I dislike Null Rod and why it probably can be cut (because Stax isn't going to be terribly harmed by it, as they don't play more than 8-10 artifact mana sources usually). Even better though is turn 1 Kataki.

Testing against Ichorid has shown, actually, that both Extirpate and Leyline are less useful than Jailer, as the former doesn't prevent them killing you with Ichorids or Grave-Trolls and the latter only works 50% or so of the time (once you factor in mulligans), whereas Jailer turn 1 or turn 2 is lethal to them.

Of course, it's hard to come up with a useful sideboard without any tournament results to build off. I would guess that the best move is probably to cut Null Rod for Wispmare, and perhaps exchange something for some of the graveyard hate, but I believe the maindeck is correct, plus or minus a land.

[DarkfnTemplar]

Note that part of the reason behind the deck is cutting green out, which gives it a more balanced game than focusing on just Tarmogoyf and a complex Zombie plan. The deck doesn't need Life from the Loam to make Infestation work. I've never once seen a game where Life from the Loam would have made the difference in a game. In the same way, there's no reason for Ray of Revelation because the deck doesn't have green.

If you don't use goyf or grunt, your clock won't be fast enough to beat combo. Plus, what's wrong with using goyf? You are not actualy depending on him. I'd say that your suggested build relies on you having three 2/2's to make up for the loss of goyf. Not to mention hoping you hit a squee without a loam.
I don't think you have played this deck enough.

Macabre is useful because it provides the deck with immediate answers to the graveyard, which I expect will be valuable in a format with Dragon, Ichorid, and other decks using the graveyard. It could be that Jailer is redundant, but it is a very powerful card that can't be ignored. Jailer could probably be cut. If the deck needs enchantment removal, Wispmare is probably the best option, but I'm still unsure if that's necessary. The only deck I can see will be using enchantments that can harm the deck is Oath. It's up in the air at this point if that deck will be played heavily.

I would disagree that DotD has a good enough game 1 against Ichorid to make things work. The combination of Faerie Macabre and 9 Wastelands is probably sufficient game 1, although the deck usually wants more cards to add from the board because it plays 8 Duress.

Once again, I don't think you have played this deck enough. Of course you will board in more hate, but your version commits way too much hate.

The value of turn 1 Conf. cannot be denied, which is the reason why I dislike Null Rod and why it probably can be cut (because Stax isn't going to be terribly harmed by it, as they don't play more than 8-10 artifact mana sources usually). Even better though is turn 1 Kataki.

Testing against Ichorid has shown, actually, that both Extirpate and Leyline are less useful than Jailer, as the former doesn't prevent them killing you with Ichorids or Grave-Trolls and the latter only works 50% or so of the time (once you factor in mulligans), whereas Jailer turn 1 or turn 2 is lethal to them.

Rod is in there for trike, worker, and karn too. That's the only reason why it ever saw play.

While your version can use yxid better, jailer is terrible as yard hate versus any other deck. You can't bounce or counter Extirpate. And yes it does. I'm curious, what are you hitting with extirpates?

Of course, it's hard to come up with a useful sideboard without any tournament results to build off. I would guess that the best move is probably to cut Null Rod for Wispmare, and perhaps exchange something for some of the graveyard hate, but I believe the maindeck is correct, plus or minus a land.

Or testing for that matter.
I'm sorry if it sounds like im flaming, I'm just trying to help out.

[Mantis]

Extirpate is a superior card to leyline. Leyline's chance of being better is the 40% chance its in your opening, your on the draw, and they turn 1 you.  Otherwise, a slow rolled extirpate is sufficient.

Eh, against Ichorid 1 Extirpate isn't going to be enough. You need to remove the Bridges, Dread Return (or target) and the Ichorids. Leyline does this all without having to infest mana and good players will Therapy your Extirpate away anyway. Seriously, don't underestimate Dredge, you probably even need 4 Leyline AND 4 Extirpate to beat it consistently. Better yet, is to run a combination of hate so 4 Leyline + 1 Faerie Macabre, 1 Extirpate and 1 Tormods Crypt for example.

[DarkfnTemplar]

Extirpate is a superior card to leyline. Leyline's chance of being better is the 40% chance its in your opening, your on the draw, and they turn 1 you.  Otherwise, a slow rolled extirpate is sufficient.

Eh, against Ichorid 1 Extirpate isn't going to be enough. You need to remove the Bridges, Dread Return (or target) and the Ichorids. Leyline does this all without having to infest mana and good players will Therapy your Extirpate away anyway. Seriously, don't underestimate Dredge, you probably even need 4 Leyline AND 4 Extirpate to beat it consistently. Better yet, is to run a combination of hate so 4 Leyline + 1 Faerie Macabre, 1 Extirpate and 1 Tormods Crypt for example.

There's your problem.

[WhiteWolf]

At the moment my main questions are to include Null Rod maindeck or not and the Chalice lock. In have the bare necessities down to this:

Critters - 12
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Utility - 5
2 Life from the Loam
3 Zombie Infestation

Removal and disruption - 12
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares

Draw and Search - 6
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

Mana - 22
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
2 Riftstone Portal
1 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
4 Mox

That leaves three slots. These could be taken by 3 Null Rods, wich is the appropriate number for the card. If the card is not included maindeck I believe it wouldn’t go sideboard either. I would reserve the sideboard for more specific answers like Seeds of Innocence.

On the other hand I believe 1 or 2 maindeck answers against Chalice @ 2 is pretty much needed. This deck, like most other aggro and aggro-control decks gets screwed by Chalice @ 2 (and Chalice @ 1). Ideally, a 3 cc answer seems right. I’m contemplating the following possibilities:

-   Seeds of Innocence: takes care of multiple Chalices, is a Wrath of Moxen and just wipes the board against Workshop (and a lesser degree Slaver) players.
-   Krosan Grip: has the nice side effect of being uncounterable and removing stuff like Oath and Leyline
-   Sundering Vitae: like Krosan Grip it also takes care of Oath and Leyline but instead of being uncounterable it has the effect of having a cheaper cost against mana-denial strategies.
-   Vexing Shusher: this Goblin enables you to play cards through the Chalices. The effect is of course useful against regular counters too and he beats.
-   Viridian Shaman / Uktabi Orangutan: has the side affect of being an additional beater / blocker
-   Devout Witness: the cousin if Viashino Heretic. The discard cost shouldn’t be too harsh in this deck and she beats on the side. It takes a turn to come online in during wich she could be removed however.
-   Aura Shards: very nice when you can land this and an Infestation against Stax before the Chalice comes down. The problem is that it needs creatures to come into play, but Goyfs and Bobs cost two.
-   Putrefy: kills all kind of artifacts and can act as extra Plows. Could be nice when your fish opponent puts Meddling Mage on Plow and / or Infestation.
-   Pernicious Deed: a Wrath of Moxen and Chalices like Seeds. Can take care of opposing aggro decks when activated for 1 or 2 mana. This last use however takes an extra turn probably.
-   Gaddock Teeg: this is only a solution when played before the Chalices and I don’t really see it as an option in that regard.

I know most people leave these solutions for the sideboard planning to use them games 2 and 3 when game 1 went wrong. I like 1 or 2 (flexible) maindeck answers however.

At the moment I’m leaning towards 1 Darkblast (Confidant and Welders are everywhere) and 2 Seeds of Innocence OR 2 Krosan Grip for the last three slots. Seeds has a big effect while Grip is more versatile.

Any comments, especially on the maindeck use of Null Rod and the Chalice issue?

My current sideboard is:

4 Extirpate
2 Oxidize
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Krosan Grip OR Seeds of Innocence (depens on the maindeck configuration)

[Isaac85]

Today I ran this deck for a mox ruby and I thought it did pretty damn good. Heres the current list I played.

Mana goodness (26)
4 polluted delta
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
2 Riftstone Portal
1 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
mox pearl
ruby
emerald
jet

dudes (15)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 jotun grunt

spells (19)
1 Life from the Loam
2 Zombie Infestation
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 smother
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 balance
1 crop rotation

sb
3 oxidize
4 thorns
4 chalice of the void
1 aura shards
1 duress
2 pithing needle

Now from talking with Polynomial P earlier today we both agree that there defiantly needs to be changes to the deck. In certain situations crop rot is just that a dead card in your hand. Granted sometimes its crazy good but in most play testing games it's dead. I think we can take it out and put something better in. I think I am going to switch it out for demonic tutor instead. Now another question that might be running though your mind is why smother. In a mirror match up its nuts. Are mirrors are fish and other dotd decks. Smother takes out the following creatures bob,goyf,aven,welder,magus,grunt,dread,narc,most goblins,dryad and more so why not play this. I agree it is slow at 1b but you don't let your opponent gain any life from it and to be honest it's quite unexpected. My side board is horrible I know. For the most part I didn't get cards in time and I had to throw in things, however I found out that somethings are worth putting in or at least taking into consideration. Pithing needle is going to be a strong card in the new world of vintage I believe. Ichorid is still lurking out there and it stops it dead in it's tracks. Goblin welder can't do much if it's already naming it and in worse case scenarios name sword for shop mask for naught and grindstone for painters. Aura shards is ok but i don't advise anyone playing it. I tried to find it before the tournament started but no luck and i put that pile in instead. White wolf your right about extirpate I need to put this in the side. Didn't think of it at the time but it needs to get put it because it's to good. regarding the chalice issue I don't think we really need Krosan Grip or Seeds of Innocence. We have some key spots anyways in the side to help and this is just more that we don't need imo. I don't know about null rod yet I will try it out main deck and see how it works but if I was to give my side board another go I would have this list.

4 Extirpate
2 Oxidize
3 Ray of Revelation
3 pithing needle
1 duress
2 chalice of the void

Let me know what you all think.

[d0rsal]

@ WhiteWolf

our DotD decks are very similar, we run the same critters, utility, removal/disuption, & draw/search down to the DT.  i dont run the DT b/c i usually dont have the mana to cast what i tutor'd for the same turn.  i think you should run a balance in the deck.  i run crop rotation as another way to get bazaar or strip & it alternately can help me thin the deck if i'm digging for something in particular.  i also run a reclaim b/c alot of the time something i'd like to have later in the game, got pitched into the yard earlier in the game.  thats probably due to my general rule of thumb when playing the deck, "when in doubt, dredge".  however our mana bases are different, although we run the same # of sources.  i'm running 4 ea. of the bayou & scrubs, 1 polluted delta, 1 bloodstained mire & 1 windswept heath, the 5 strip effects, lotus & 5 moxes; 1 being the diamond.  i like having the diamond as an another source of red for casting squee in the event i really need a blocker.  i do not like the riftstones b/c i'f i'm leyline'd, & i've built the deck to somewhat count on having that potential source for G/W in the yard, i'm hosed.  i've been contemplating the same dilemma, regarding Chalice @ 2 & have tenatively settled on Sundering Vitae.  however, i've been looking into another option for that last main deck slot that would get around CotV @ 2 & other things that became problematic & still be a source of dmg if nothing else, & thats the necrotic sliver.  he's on color & whacks any perm on the board so long as it can be target'd.  my main beef w/ him so far though, is that he is sometimes too slow if i really, really, need something dealt w/ right away.  =(

[samurai_socks]

Deleted.

[DarkfnTemplar]

I like crop rotation but I do find myself sbing it out often. I agree that d tutor should replace it.
I think 8 duress might be bad here. I only started the 8 duress plan late in last format. I think 6-7 is fine here. I'm just really afraid of shops for some reason. I have the worst luck versus shop decks.
I think balance should still be main. It's one of the only answers to etw in the deck.
Basically, I'm itching for a big tournament. I need to play more of this meta.
 I'm so pissed i couldn't make it to indy this weekend and that worlds is during nats.

[samurai_socks]

Deleted.

[Isaac85]

I only started the 8 duress plan late in last format. I think 6-7 is fine here. I'm just really afraid of shops for some reason. I have the worst luck versus shop decks.

Why is this? Shop is powerful I'll admit but when I play test with my friend we split games 50 50 and after siding in more artifact hate you are going to have the advantage in my oppion. This is another reason why I play smother. It gets Magus welder and if you don't think it did it for you first game switch it out for your ox's.

[the boogie man]

One card I liked, though there may not be room for it, is cursecatcher. It is proactive, and it is a daze on legs. It also has the side effect of being good against ichorid.

[BC]

I played DotD at TMD Open 12.5 yesterday.  I was very pleased with how my list played, and I had a shot at Top 8, except for a few misplays (I finished 3-2-1).  I think a good player would do quite well.  Here was my list:

4  Bazaar of Baghdad
3  Bloodstained Mire
2  Polluted Delta
3  Bayou
2  Scrubland
1  Swamp
2  Riftstone Portal
3  Wasteland
1  Strip Mine
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Diamond
1  Black Lotus
4  Squee
4  Tarmogoyf
4  Dark Confidant
3  Aven Mindcensor
3  Swords to Plowshares
1  Darkblast
3  Life from the Loam
1  Balance
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Demonic Tutor
4  Thoughtseize
2  Duress
2  Raven’s Crime
0 Null Rod
0 Zombie Infestation

Side:
3  Extirpate
2  Krosan Grip
2  Tormod's Crypt
2  Zombie Infestation
1  Darkblast
2  Seeds of Innocence
3  Gaddock Teeg

Like I said, I was very happy with the list.  If I was playing in another tournament, I would play the exact same list.  Raven's Crime was huge all day.  I think at least 2 copies need to be in the deck.  It is a savage beating.  I decided to forgo Null Rod because with Raven's Crime and Aven Mindcensor (and Krosan Grip from the board) you want to have more mana available than with previous lists.  I don't regret leaving out Null Rod at all.  I also went up to 3 Life from the Loam for the same reason.  Aven Mindcensor was relevant a few times, but not as awesome as I think he could be in certain matchups.

[vassago]

It has been a long time since this deck has been seen or talked about and i would like to say that i love this deck. i played it for the first time in a tournament down in tucson, az for a timevault.  it was an excellent metagame choice and i went undefeated all day.  have to say with all the discusion about gaddock teeg, i think he is an awesome include and would never cut him unless something better came out.  round 1 i played against a good friend of mine named jay webb(who was playing tezz). null rod is amazing in this match up. round two i played against a tendrils deck. round three against a shop deck ran by Eric, and drew in round four with Miklos who was playing tog.  Unfortuantely i had to play Jay again in top four(yeah sucks, there was only 16 people) and then i played eric again in the finals. The only thing i did not like about the deck was balance, even though i wouldnt cut it. kind of a nessicary evil in my opinion. anyway, if you guys are interested, this is the list i ran(there was supposed to be a basic swamp but i forgot to put it in b4 we started)

4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
2 gaddock teeg
4 squee
3 zombie infestation
4 thoughtseize
3 duress
4 stp
1 vampiric tutor
1 d tutor
1 null rod
2 life from the loam
1 crop rotation
2 wasteland
1 strip mine
2 riftstone portal
3 bloodstained mire
2 windswept heath
3 bayou
3 scrubland
1 black lotus
1 mox jet
mox emerald
\mox pearl
mox ruby
mox diamond
4 bazaar of baghdad

side board
1 balance
1 null rod
2 oxidize
1 krosan grip
4 thorn of amethyst
4 extirpate
2 ray of revelation

[DarkfnTemplar]

Nice
 However, we have been talking about it, just in a different mode. It's good to know that the 2.0 version still does well, but Vroman's 3.0 version seems a lot better for this metagame. With the temporary popularity of elves, I think cannonist is needed. Also, the 3.0 has fewer dead draws (although less stable. My version is slightly more stable.)
Check out the cannonist/sculler thread.