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Author Topic: [Report] 3rd place at T1 side event at GP Stuttgart with Dark Illusions  (Read 3840 times)
Phele
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« on: December 17, 2007, 01:24:42 pm »

Short report from T1 side event at Grand Prix Stuttgart at 16th of December

The day started horrible. I woke with up with a big hangover and was punished for not being the youngest anymore. For a long time it was a 50/50 if I go to the T1 side event in Stuttgart or not. Coming from Frankfurt it is still a two hours trip. But in the end, I decided to go as it is very rare that I really get the chance to play Vintage tournaments. And even though I had a strong headache and was almost falling asleep while driving I arrived safe in Stuttgart.

I have never been to such a big event and I was quite impressed of the professionality and size of the whole tournament. The first thing I noticed was, that there were two artists signing and altering cards. But I had missed to check things like that in advance. So I just took my deck with me. And while one of the artists was Mark Tedin I didn't have Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Necropotence, Mana Drain or anything else of his cards with me, as I am not playing them in the moment Damn! So I used my time for watching the legacy event and getting some foils - a very nice Kira, Great Glass Spinner for example, my second one.

Later on I met many of my friends with wich we frequently are holding Vintage tournaments of 20 to 30 persons size in the southwest german area. We talked a bit and waited for the event. Patrick and I were just wondering, how we will get informed of the tournament start and how funny it would be to hang around and miss the start, when I saw one of our friends already sitting at a table four rows in front of us. We rushed over there just to hear the judge saying: "There are still three persons missing. They have three minutes left." Puh, what lucksacks we are. I was sorry for Heiner Litz, who missed the start for just a few minutes and got a match loss. But I would say, this could be better organized, as there was no sign or information via microphone where and when to go in this big hall at all. Anyway the fun started and my headache got even worse going along with my stomach now as well.

I played again my UB Mask creation "Dark Illusions", which I already played even without the Dreadnought errata with some success.And I was happy for sure to use it again with the Dreadnought errata wich made it even better to some top tier status.

The deck is a beast and has many many synergies. It can easily switch game roles: sometimes it goes straight forward the mana denial route, sometimes it is the Dark Confidant Draw Go deck, sometimes the aggressive beater with early Dreadnoughts. But rule number one is to play the deck as much as a tempo deck as possible. You just need to swing two times most of the times. So for example playing Stifles on Oath, Smokestack, Fetchland, Welder ... can be really huge.

I saw TKs new UBG Tarmo-Trinket-Nought deck "Deez Noughts" and even though it looks like a very great deck, I prefer the UB full Dreadnought shell, as I almost never found Dreadnoughts clunky with so many ways to bring them in. I go with two Masks and I like them as well as the right choice to bring out more than one Nought and a good way to avoid Counters and Spheres. This was the list I was trying out this time:

"Dark Illusions" by Philip Stirm

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Illusionary Mask
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Mana Leak
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Daze
1 Trickbind
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Echoing Truth
1 Vodalian Illusionist

4 Dark Confidant
3 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Board:

2 Anull
2 Hurkyls Recall
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
2 Yxlid Jailer
2 Smother
2 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Some notes on the choices:

- Daze/Mana Leak: I like them as singletons for psychological reasons - to bluff more of them and forcing opponent to play around them. On the other hand: Both of them can be good tutor targets from time to time to help playing the tempo game.

- Yawgmoth's Will: Without Will the deck lacks possibilities for the late game. Will solves this problem with one card.

- Duress, but no Thoughtseizes: During testing and the tournament I almost never wished to be able to pick a creature. But I would have missed my life points.

- Trickbind: Rounds up the little toolbox for the single Merchant Scroll and the other tutors. I started to play this over the third Mask a while ago and never looked back.

- Vodalian Illusionist: I was looking for a good ninth critter for a long time. Then I read a Legacy article from Doug Linn (thanks a lot for the inspiration) about the possibility to use Phasing to respond on the CIP from Dreadnought, as phasing in is not treated CIP anymore. The list presented by Doug used Vision Charm. But I was at once thinking of this single Weatherlight card, that stucked in my binder for a long time.

I like the Illusionist for allowing even more tricks (phasing out Meddlings or Mindcensors for example), for protecting my Noughts as well, for being an almost undestructable blocker and for just fitting to the deck name Wink Anyway: It is clunky and I can understand, if people don't want to play it for that reason. I just love to always play one pretty unusual surprising card, and this time it has been the Illusionist. I was thinking for a long time about playing Waterfront Bouncer instead. Maybe next time.

- Complete set of Moxen: I love first turn Confidants as one of the strongest moves in this deck. Sometimes first turn Stifle/Nought can be good as well. Randomly it can be good to have the mana for first turn Mana Leak, Merchant Scroll, Trickbind open. Not very often I would like to play a first turn Mask without having colored mana open as well. That is the reason for not playing Sol Ring instead. Mana Crypt could help out as well. But there is not much you want to play for two colorless Mana first turn and life does matter in this deck.

- Kira, Great Glass Spinner: Nought is pretty vulnerable and there are decks around with too much removal after boarding (BGW Bazaar Beats, UW Fish, RG Beats, Landstill ...). Kira helps to make them invest much more to remove the Nought. And in addition they are 2/2 flyers.

- Sideboard: Should be self explaining. It has four to five options against almost any relevant deck (Workshops, GAT, Oath, Beats, Ichorid, Landstill ...). Just for Storm and Flash deck I just have the two Extirpates (and the second Explosives against Flash) to board. I am totally fine with that, as both decks already have a hard time dealing with the maindeck. I would love to include Chains of Mephistopheles again as a great bomb in this meta, but I just don't find space. Same goes for Tinker/Colossus.

- 61 cards: Yes, you counted correctly. I play one card too much. Beside combo decks I do this very often and I allow everybody to blame me as a rookie for that. Thats fine and I nevertheless will do it again. If you would like to play this deck but give it a more professional touch: Just cut the Illusionist or one Mox.

A quick report.

We were 28 players. Five rounds + Top 8 were anounced (more on that later on). The winner should get 10 Antiquities and 2 Legends booster plus some artist prints. The runner up should get 6 Antiquities and 2 Legends booster and artist prints as well. Not too bad!

Round 1 against Thorn Goblins (I am sorry for not remembering all names. Same for details of the plays, as I am not a very professional player and got to concentrate too much to take any notes)

First game: He wins the die roll and starts with Simian Spirit Guide and Goblin Lackey. No landdrop which is questionable. Anyway, I don't have Force so his plan could work. But my start is pretty broken containing first turn Ancestral, three Moxen, Mask and next turn Demonic Tutor for Dreadnought. He couldn't do that much with still no land and just Warchief brought in with the Lackey.

Board: In go 2 Jailer, 2 Smother, 2 Kira, out go 3 Duress, 1 Trickbind, 1 Merchant Scroll and 1 Mana Leak

Second game
: He starts pretty broken with Simian and Lackey and then Ancient Tomb for Thorn, so he cut me of from any first turn play. He then continues to strip and waste my lands so it's over pretty quick.

Third game: I mulligan manaless hands twice just to keep three lands togehter with Force of Will and Time Walk. Very questionable, but I don't want to risk to get four cards with not enough mana against him. And I still have the plan to force a possible first turn Lackey, if he is going all in for that. At least he mulliganed as well so it could work. I play a land and pass. As expected he plays the Lackey which I counter. I draw another Force of Will (great!). He then lays a second land and TWO Lackeys. Oooookkkaay. I continue to draw nothing to bring out a quick Dreadnought and it is over pretty fast.

What a great start! From now on my motto was: The next one winning against me will make me drop to go home and get some sleep against my hangover. Nice, that this didn't happen Wink

Round 2against Marc Langira with GB disruption package with Tarmos and Noughts. I know Marc as a very competent Landstill player. But I already had seen that he had chosen a different deck this time and I was confidant that I have at least a chance against him.

First game It is a pitty that I don't remember too much from these ones. I think I just had the more broken start with an early Dreadnought bringing it home. I think some Confidant action was also included.

Board: In go 2 Smother, 2 Kira, 1 Explosives, out go 1 Trickbind, 3 Duress and 1 Merchant Scroll.

Second game: I know that he managed to Oxidize one of my Dreadnoughts and I think I smothered on of his Confidants. He plays a Chalice for one which hits me hard with a hand full of Brainstorms, Stifles andVampiric. But I get a Mask in play and play Confidant, Illusionist, Kira and finally Dreadnought. The crucial play was him playing Oxidize on my Mask. I was already putting it in the graveyard but then noticed that there is a very helpful Chalice on the table. So Mask sticks, what is a blast, as I had all my lands striped and just three "colorless" Moxen on the table. When it is over he shows me his hand with lands, two Dreadnoughts, one Smother and no Mask. The Smother came too late as Kira already entered the field.

Marc was a very friendly opponent and I hope to see him again soon, even though his Dillingen crew is always playing a little bit too far away for me.

Round 3 against Daniel playing UGR Tarmo Fish. I know Daniel from many matches. He is young boy and a nice guy. But he is also a very noisy, fidgety player, which can be annoying sometimes to an even unfair stadium. He is also a little bit unsportsmanlike, cheering as much as possible, when winning, but always complaining about the luck of the opponent, when he is losing, even though you just played well. Anyway: He just carries his heart in his hand, he is young and a nice and fixed part of our tournament scene.

First game
I get an early Dreadnought out and swing one time. He starts to dig for answers and is drawing many cards. At one time he has a full hand and obviously some plan in mind. He has one Volcanic Island untapped and plays a Fetchland. He tries to fetch - probably to get green Mana - and I show him the Trickbind in my hand. He suddenly gets really upset and complains a lot about that being just a random move and me being damn lucky. Thanks! But it seals the game and I would say it is a good example for tempo game.

Board: In go 2 Smother, 1 Explosives and 2 Extirpate, out go 1 Mox, 1 Trickbind, 1 Mask, 1 Dreadnought and 1 Merchant Scroll

Second game: He seems to have Dazes and Forces for every threat I play and a Tarmo and a - I think - Dryad quickly end the game. In this game Daniel has shown again, that he is an enthusiastic Fish player and knows every ins and outs of how to play the tempo game as well.

Third game: I mulligan once and keep an ok hand with Island, Swamp, Confidant and Mana Leak. But again, he has too many Dazes and Forces for everything I am playing. At one point he plays a Trygdon Predator and things start to look even worse. He swings a couple of times and plays three Ponder meanwhile, so his hand must look terrific. He then plays a second Predator. I try to Echoing Truth them end of turn, and it resolves. So I am pretty sure he at max has Dazes in hand with me having enough mana. I waste his first Tropical and pass the turn (he has another Tropical and two Volcanics on the table). He then plays the first Predator again. I force it and it works. He passes and end of turn I play Extirpate on the predator. While looking through his library I notice, that he has many red answers to my creatures but also just plays green win conditions without any Moxen as Daniel is unpowered). I look at the Yawgmoth's Will in my hand and at once I know what to do. I even topdeck Lotus but it didn't matter. I play Will, waste the other Tropical and then extirpate it. He looks really upset, shuffles his cards together and calls me a random lucksack for having Lotus and Will together - even though it didn't matter and I was keeping Will for a long time. I tell him that it would be nicer, if he could just congratulate me and that I think, that I wasnt just lucky with some at least nice moves. But he is too upset and leaves the table. But later on we were for sure good friends again.

Round 4 against a nice austrian guy from Vienna with 5 Color Staxx
. Before the round started we talked a bit about Vienna being a very nice place, as my wife comes from Austria and I know the city quite well. It is possible that we move there someday, so I asked him a lot about the local Vintage scene. As he is a shop owner, he should know a bit about it. Unfortunately there seems to be no Vintage scene, just frequent Legacy events. Even though this is better than nothing, it is a bit disappointing!

Before the match starts we are informed that the tournament organisation just changed there mind. There will be no Top 8. We just play six rounds instead. Me and all the others who already have a game loss are pretty mad about that, as the chances to get in the Top 2 are suddenly very small. We don't even get any reason for that. The dust of professionality which I felt when arriving, just vanished.

First game: He starts with City of Brass, a Mox and Lotus. He sacs Lotus, taps the Mox and plays ... Garruk Wildspeaker (!?!). Wow, seems that someone else likes to play with surprising pet cards. He smiles and agrees. Then he right away removes a counter and brings in a 3/3. Anyway, I decide that my beaters are bigger and play a Nought. He continues to untap lands with his Planeswalker and plays some stuff, but nothing relevant. I decide not to attack the Planeswalker and beat him down in two turns instead.

Board: In come 2 Hurkyls, 2 Anull, 2 Needles, 1 Explosives, out go 3 Duress, 1 Merchant Scroll, 1 Yawgmoths Will, 1 Trickbind, 1 Demonic Tutor

Second game: This time he has a better start with some mana, Thorn of Amethyst and Welder. I establish my manabase with Basics and Moxen. He consequently doesn't draw that much beside Crucible and Smokestack and gets damage from the Mana Crypt. I am able to play a Mask for the two Dreadnoughts in my hand, but just play one of them to keep mana open for my Force of Will. He plays Vampiric end of my turn. In his upkeep he puts a counter on Smokie gets again damage from the Mana Crypt, which brings him under the magical twelve life zone. He then plays Tinker with mana open. I am thinking about it and decide to counter Tinker, which would have probably found Duplicant, even though he could still play Balance or Swords. But lucky me nothing follows up, so during my turn I just have to take care not to sac an artifact for the Smokestack and ride it home.

Round 5 against Patrick Hiness with Metalworker-Trike-Ravager-Mud, another nice member of the nearby Vintage scene, which has more less four players with a big preference for their Workshops. He is one of them and I know that I have to expect their new very explosive build. A very difficult matchup for me and I am telling him that. He isn't that sure and reminds me of my pretty long winning streak against him. While it ist true, it has nothing to do with him not being a skillful player. Mostly it was about good draws and matchups so I don't share his predictions.

First game: He starts with a Metalworker and I don't have a Force of Will which is bad news. I play a first turn Mask. Next turn he taps Metalworker and two Trikes enter the battlefield. Next turn I play a Nought and a Confidant under the Mask. I am not sure what he played then, I think it was just a Myr Retriever. And he for sure didn't let me trick him and pings my flipped Confidant end of turn. I draw another one, play it with three counters, attack with the Dreadnought and he takes twelve. On his turn he plays a Ravager, pings the unknown three counter morph again to death and doesn't attack. On my turn I come over again with my Dreadnought and I can't really repeat step by step what he did then. But some artifact sacrificing with Ravager and exchanging counters with the Trikes was included. It finally lead to a Dreadnought blocked and pinged dead and him without any critters on board but with Metalworker returned to his hand by My Retriever. I think I played a Brainstorm then and found another Nought which brings it home.

Board: see round 4

Second game: He starts with Workshop, Sphere of Resistance and Pithing Needle on Illusionary Mask. I play a land and a Mox. Next turn he plays an Ancient Tomb and a Smokestack. I play another land. He puts the first counter on Smokestack and I don't remember if he played anything but it cannot have been anything crucial. I end of turn play Echoing Truth on the Smokestack and waste his Workshop in my turn. He looks quite annoyed so I guess that he doesn't have any mana in hand. Not playing anything next turn proves that. I play a Confidant. He plays no land again and my Confidant finds me another Wasteland, the draw another Confidant. Him without any mana and me with two Confidants finishes the game pretty quickly, as I am able to play Dreadnought and Stifle soon after as well. Puuh, another difficult matchup solved. But I am sorry for Patrick being that screwed in the second Game.

Round 6: A player probably from Spain, as he was talking Spanish with his friends, playing GAT. His surname was Pla

First game: To sum it up quickly, I am able to force through an early Dreadnought, waste one of his lands and he is not able to find a solution

Board: In go 2 Extirpate and 2 Smother, out go 1 Mox, 1 Mask, 1 Dreadnought and 1 Echoing Truth.

Second game: He uses Fire/Ice for my first turn Confidant and even though I am able to trickbind and stifle two of his fetchies I run out of gas, while he prepares a game ending Will. Even though this sounds quick, I already could see that he is playing really slow.

Third game: I have a very good start with first turn Confidant and Mask, thanks to some Lotus action. But he has again the Fire/Ice. I play a Duress, take a Force and see that he has Duress and Demonic in hand. So I waste his Underground Sea and play Extirpate on the U-Seas. Thanks to his slow play Wink time is called, so I try to finish it, get a Dreadnought with Demonic Tutor and stifle it in. He plays Time Walk and then topdecks Lotus. He thinks for a while, but then just goes for Smother with his Demonic. I can play another Confidant with two Smother in hand but finally we end up with a draw.

So that was my Grand Prix experience. For coming in third I got six Lorwyn booster with no chance to play against the first two (UBG-Tarmo-Trinket-Nought, Tyrant Oath) at all. But I had a very good time and could - after a long while - play cards again. I don't know that much more about the Top 8, but the judge promised to publish the lists very soon. Two of the decks were UB-Confidant-Platinum-Control and some Workshop build. The field overall was very mixed up. We had TPS, Rector Flash, Gobbos, Dawn of the Dead, GAT, GRO, different Dreadnought variants, different Workshop variants, Ichorid, UB control, Tyrant Oath and probably other nice creations I didn't see.

While reading this report you might have noticed that this day was all about playing Dreadnoughts. This can be a good route against certain decks, but doesn't have to be he usual way. It's much more common to consequently go the mana denial route. But as said: The deck is very flexible and thanks to Stifle also really redundant. I just recommend to give it a try.

And many excuses for my bad English. Even after correcting the text I am pretty sure, that there are still plenty of mistakes in it. Also - as said - I don't remember everything correctly, so it might be some logical flaws and wrong descriptions of game situations in it. Nevertheless, thanks for reading.

Philip

P:

- Almost any of my opponents, who were great guys
- Wizards for the errata of Dreadnought

- Andreas Klaes, the inventor of Staxx, who also put much effort in a similar build and placed well with it
- Many spanish players trying out UB or UBx Mask builds as well
- Hemgath and his french friends from solomoxen.com for succesfully trying out new ways to play Mask and Dreadnought
- Tobias Brix, Jan Gockeln and other german players for placing great with UB Mask in Dülmen and Iserlohn

Go ahead doing a great job guys!

S:

- The tournament organisation for exchanging the modus while playing
- Vodalian Illusionist for showing up just two times without helping or hindering any game situation
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 09:02:34 am by Phele » Logged

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Free Illusionary Mask!!
Grapes17
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 10:16:09 pm »

I love the deck, and your use of interesting and unique cards. I agree that while the Illusianist can be clunky, sometimes it is just fun to play something completely different then what people would expect.
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2007, 02:16:31 am »

versus Goblins
Quote
Board: In go 2 Jailer, 2 Smother, 2 Kira, out go 3 Duress, 1 Trickbind, 1 Merchant Scroll and 1 Mana Leak

Were the Jailer's boarded in just to chump Lackey's?

Great report, by the way.

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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 03:05:29 am »

versus Goblins
Quote
Board: In go 2 Jailer, 2 Smother, 2 Kira, out go 3 Duress, 1 Trickbind, 1 Merchant Scroll and 1 Mana Leak

Were the Jailer's boarded in just to chump Lackey's?

Great report, by the way.



Exactly! My board isn't that well prepared for Goblins and I thought a Jailer could at least block Lackey or a Piledriver. But boarding out Mana Leak for that is probably not the best choice.
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2007, 08:31:07 am »

I tell him that it would be nicer, if he could just congratulate me and that I think, that I wasnt just lucky with some at least nice moves. But he is too upset and leaves the table. But later on we were for sure good friends again.

I hope so! But I have to apologize for that. But I was convinced that my luck was used up after I lost my deck and my binder on Day1, but received everything back on Day2. I lost a Single Elimination Sidevent for getting paired against a matchup I could not win. Same situation at the Legacy Tournament. And then this guy in Round 2, playing Oath, always having double-Oath and acceleration in his hand for complete brokeness. After he oathed and revealed that he played Tyrant Oath, beginning to bounce and bounce and bounce and bounce, I got really annoyed and scoopes as it was a match I could not win with a creature-based deck like I had at the event. I didn't knew your hand, that was the reason why I got so upset since the Yawgmoth's Will and Black Lotus appreared like you drew them 2 Turns before, one after another. But maybe you remembered, when you extirpated my Predators I said: "Tricky!", meaning "Nice play!". But the Waste-Extirpate on my Tropicals was unfair Wink
I also made a misplay. In g1, your Trickbind was GG, because one Turn before, I decided to play the Tropical instread of the Fetchland. I could not play my second Goyf to chump and then attack ftw. and got smashed by the Dreadnought.

It also happened to me again the round after against Fish. I also lost that 2-1. But this time I kept my mouth shut, signed the entry slip and made a cross over the "Drop?"-sign. But I told that guy that someone, maybe me, will slap him in his face for playing Balance in UWb Fish (unpowered) and Sudden Death in the SB. I used to play UWb Fish and he netdecked my lists 2 tournaments before, that's the reason why I was not prepared for the random Balance- and Sudden Death-Action.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 08:36:46 am by Adan » Logged
Phele
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2007, 08:58:21 am »

I tell him that it would be nicer, if he could just congratulate me and that I think, that I wasnt just lucky with some at least nice moves. But he is too upset and leaves the table. But later on we were for sure good friends again.

I hope so!

Sure, don't worry! I look forward to our next intensive duel and sorry for your bad luck this day.
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 08:20:59 am »

hi,
congratulation with your finish.
I'm one of thoses french guys trying to build up mask.dec  Wink

Even if your angle of palying it is diferent, I've arrived at the same conclusion: mask.dec can only win throught mana denial and fast clock  Very Happy

I just would like some answers on the ichorid match up. I've been worked hard on this one so far with few success but some progress in my lasts attempts. Ichorid is played too much in france at the moment and I must find a good way to manage it.
Do you have problems to beat ichorid with your build before and post sideboard?

final comment: did you tried demonic consultation? it's kind of magic in dread+stiffle+confident  Wink
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2007, 09:08:01 am »

Hi Astre!

I know that you, Hemgath and the others have innovated a lot with the result of "Red Elemental Mask" and "Under Pressure", both being very strong decks. Well done!

On the Ichorid Matchup: It is played but not too often over here, so I decided no to waste too much sideboard place for it this time. Before boarding, it is hard to win but sometimes manageable, with early Dreadnoughts very often included. Beside getting out an early Dreadnought, key moves are always to get rid of the first Bazaar. The best thing to happen is to stifle the first bazaar activation and then wasting it. But before boarding Ichorid clearly has the edge over you.

My sideboard plan has changed a bit recently, cause of the low appearance of Ichorid. Before I played 3 Jailer and 2 Needles against it in the sideboard and bet Ichorid two times in tournaments with that. Leylines and Confidants together in one deck is imo a no no, Jailer are easier to cast, easier to recast, you can tutor for them, they beat, they are not that easy removed by Ichorid and the do absolutely nothing against Flash. But who cares with a deck that is filled with Stifle, Trickbind, Duress, Echoing Truth, Explosives ...

Now I played just two Jailer anymore. You can still tutor for them but to effectively hate Ichorid three would be the magic number. But it is now not just paired by Needles but also by Extirpates. When you can hit with that the Bridges a good part of the work is already done. At least this gives you time to find a Jailer or another Extirpate or a Dreadnought. When you hit the Ichorids as well, there is nothing left I fear too much. Sure it can still win, but this is manageable. I might be wrong but these are my experiences and I love Extirpate too much in many other matchups (Storm, GAT, Landstill) to exchange them again for Jailer.

On Demonic Consultation: Yes, while discussion the deck in our home board we also were thinking about Consultation too. You could easily build this deck even more consistant with more four of and there Consultation can shine. It still bringt the little risk with it, while searching for lets say a FoW that you remove too many Dreadnoughts so that you are left with not enough and very vulnerable win conditions. One of the strenghts of this deck is, that you don't have to care to much about single threats. You play just one after another. But this is probably not something to hinder you from playing the Consultation. I play to many one ofs in my mainboard and two ofs in the sideboard: so Consultation in my list is probably not effective enough.

I btw totally agree with you conclusion: At least after the stifle errata Mask decks take their strenght from a strong mana denial route. While Null Rod is no option, in a different meta (without that many Gushes and Workshops) Tinker + Titan would be a natural fit. But lets wait what the future brings. Eddie from Belgium is trying out the Top/Counterbalance combo with some success, and in the moment I am trying this out at least in the sideboard as well. Could help against many decks just packed with one and two mana spells - as my deck is.

Good luck for your further improvement!
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 04:34:06 pm »

Nice one Phillip!

Congrats! Your list looks very similar to mine... looks like T61 still have similar thoughs! ^_~

Greetings from Hong Kong!

Hawk
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Tom Bombadil


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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2007, 03:31:34 am »

Nice one Phillip!

Congrats! Your list looks very similar to mine... looks like T61 still have similar thoughs! ^_~

Greetings from Hong Kong!

Hawk

Hey Chun-Wah, good to hear from you. Yes, I am still remembering our Team 61 days in Hamburg Wink

When you have time, let us know about your list and your experiences and tournament results with it.
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astre
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2007, 04:34:02 pm »

hi
I'm just back from a small french tounement finishing 9th  losing to RBW hate deck (double sword to plow is kind a pain) and tog (a kind of not good matchup for me.

just for the idea, here is what I played :
M&M - magus and the mask

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badland
2 ancient Tomb

1 Black lotus
1 Petal lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

1 engineer explosive
3 Illusionary Mask
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought

3 magus of the moon
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 trinket mage

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Echoing truth
 
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic consultation
2  Duress
2 Toughtsize
1 Diabolic edict
4 Dark Confidant

For next year, i will try something else and add some tarmogoyf in my list probably droping red. while effective, I've found magus of the moon too sensible to counterspells and removal for beeing that effective.

see you
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Eddie
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 08:55:25 am »

Quote from: Phele
Eddie from Belgium is trying out the Top/Counterbalance combo with some success, and in the moment I am trying this out at least in the sideboard as well. Could help against many decks just packed with one and two mana spells - as my deck is.

That is correct. I've played against the G/R beats deck from SCG chicage in a tournament. It was a joke with counterbalance and top. I wasn't able to counter magus of the moon, but I didn't care with all the basic lands. Kira was also great from the side: Stingscourger, Hooligan and seal? No problem for kira. Combine that with the counterbalance and you have one big control package.

I can understand why people wouldn't like it in this deck. It's a little slower. But you have a better mid-lategame. I've tried a lot of things and counterbalance-top is great for me.

Quote from: astre
For next year, i will try something else and add some tarmogoyf in my list probably droping red.

I don't like goyf here. It's only a 3/4, sometimes a 4/5. Goyfs don't add enough pressure in this deck, it doesn't work the same way as GAT plays goyfs.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 08:59:17 am by Eddie » Logged

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astre
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2007, 09:31:44 am »

hoppefully, the whole list need to be refont with goyf.
on my first list (inspired from the starcity list, but far from identical) my goyf are always 4/5 and often 5/6 (the real use of dreadnaugt in my deck is to give +2/+2 to my goyf  Wink ) and I even play some broken enchantement so 6/7 is possible (secret tech in progress  Wink)

I really need to try counterbalance also, as i already play top+ some trinket... how many do you play in your builds for a respectable effect?
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Phele
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Tom Bombadil


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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2007, 10:30:15 am »

What I personally hate the most about Goyf is the more vulnerable three color manabase. Just Goyf and other toy stuff from green ist not enough for me to weaken my manabase. Especially as Goyf just comes out to be a smaller Dreadnought, even though it takes two cards to bring the Nought into play, but that's just my experience. If I would add a third color it would be definately Red, but I won't do that.

But Counterbalance has been a nice tool in testing so far. I don't like it in the maindeck, as we have quite a few Workshop decks around. But against R/G, Oath, GAT, Long it can be golden. So my sideboard looks like that in the moment with my maindeck staying almost the same just - 1 Vodalian Illusionist, + 1 Senseis Top:

2 Hurkyl
2 Counterbalance
1 Echoing Truth
1 Tinker
2 Extirapte
2 Jailer
2 Pithing Needle
1 Senseis Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Darksteel Colussus

So far I like it a lot, as it gives me tools against most of the decks (Gobos might be an exception) and leaves me with the flexibility to change game roles from aggro to control easily. Good luck with your tries with the Goyf version and a happy, peaceful new year!

Philip
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Eddie
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 02:54:16 pm »

Quote from: astre
hoppefully, the whole list need to be refont with goyf.
on my first list (inspired from the starcity list, but far from identical) my goyf are always 4/5 and often 5/6 (the real use of dreadnaugt in my deck is to give +2/+2 to my goyf  Wink ) and I even play some broken enchantement so 6/7 is possible (secret tech in progress  Wink)

So you have a 2 card combo for 2G to get a 4/5 (maybe a 5/6), whilst I have a 2 card combo of 1U and have a 12/12 trample. You will have to attack 4 times with goyf (if not more) giving your opponent time to find a solution or win. You'll have to make sure you don't lose in those turns while I'm sitting at the bar drinking a beer to celebrate another round won. Yes, goyf is better against workshops, but destroying your own manabase to play goyf is not.

I searched our team forums for example hands to illustrate the problem:

Mox Ruby
Flooded Strand
Strip Mine
Dark Confidant
Tarmogoyf
Brainstorm
Phyrexian Dreadnought

You have to fetch sea and play confidant and draw a green source before goyf can start the beating.

Duress
Duress
Polluted Delta
Tropical Island
Mox Emerald
Dark Confidant
Counterbalance

1st turn Duress, 2nd turn Confidant. If I didn't play the Tropical Island I would have been able to duress a second time before playing the confidant, probably winning the game in the process.

Hands like these happened all the time. I worked hard to get the manabase right to support 3 colors, but it just wasn't worth it. (Just so you know: ponder helped a lot with the 3 color manabase)

Maybe it's a style of playing (or the secret enchantment tech Wink). But I never liked Tarmogoyf in testing. In fact I find it's easier to beat with Dark Confidant using the card advantage engine than beating with Tarmogoyf. But hey if it works for you, then you should keep them of course. You're probably doing something right where I'm doing something wrong.

Quote from: astre
really need to try counterbalance also, as i already play top+ some trinket... how many do you play in your builds for a respectable effect?
2 tops, 2 counterbalance. Maybe 1 top is enough if you play trinket mages, but that build sounds awfully slow.


Quote from: Phele
But Counterbalance has been a nice tool in testing so far. I don't like it in the maindeck, as we have quite a few Workshop decks around. But against R/G, Oath, GAT, Long it can be golden. So my sideboard looks like that in the moment with my maindeck staying almost the same just - 1 Vodalian Illusionist, + 1 Senseis Top

Yes, counterbalance is not very good against workhops. It's not completely dead if they play a lot of spheres, and you can still counter their acceleration. But that's not what you want to do be doing against workshops decks.

I like the fact of playing counterbalance in the side. It never occurred to me to try that. It's only 3 slots and you can side it in against more than half the field.

Right now I'm still playing a darkblast against other confidants and stuff like welder and gorilla shaman. It's also great to dredge the crap you gathered with top. I'm trying the chains of mephistopheles too. It shouldn't be too bad to lose brainstorm with 2 tops maindeck.

Anyway, this is getting way too long and off-topic for a tournament report. I'll save some for a thread on the subject.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 02:57:12 pm by Eddie » Logged

No room in the house exceeds a length of twenty-five feet, let alone fifty feet, let alone fifty-six and a half feet, and yet Chad and Daisy's voices are echoing, each call responding with an entirely separate answer. In the living room, Navidson discovers the echoes emanating from a dark, doorless hallway which has appeared out of nowhere in the west wall.

House of Leaves - Danielewski
Phele
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Tom Bombadil


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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2008, 04:05:03 pm »


Anyway, this is getting way too long and off-topic for a tournament report. I'll save some for a thread on the subject.

So we should open one sometimes. Wink 

You examples perfectly illustrate what I mean with weakening the manabase. It's not just about getting more vulnerable to Wasteland and Magus of the Moon stuff. It's also about getting the right color for your spells in the right moment. That's exactly reason why I also always played Bomberman strictly UW. Adding another color should give me some overwhelming tools UB can't offer me at all. So while Goyf, Loam and Predator are gordious, most of the time I am as fine or even more with the extra Noughts, Explosives and bounce.
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Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.

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