[Deck] The Tropical Storm (TTS)

[ErkBek]

Concerning Grim Tutor vs D-Day, I think Grim Tutor is just 10 times more powerful in this deck. The opponant always can let you resolve your D-Day, and then counter the right threat, and you lose with your 5 cards on the library. Grim tutor is so safer! Grim gets countered? No problem, you will play other bombs. Moreover, note that BBB is far difficult to play than 1BB. Now, with the great amount of fetches played maindeck, it is easy to find 2 Underground Seas on the beginning of a game. BBB almost always requires a Dark Ritual or Lotus. Grim Tutor is very flexible, and it finds Will, not D-Day. Demonic Tutor is a key card of the deck and Grim Tutor  is the card which is approaching the most its power.

I'm sorry, but have you played this deck before? Grim Tutor would be awful. In short, Doomsday allows you to combo out for BBB + Gush, BBBU + Brainstorm, or BBBUU with Ponder. Mana is tight in this deck and protection is heavy. Grim Tutor doesn't allow nearly as tight of kills. With Grim to actually win, you need a stocked yard and at a minimum 3 mana after the Grim to win (stocked with mana that is). Grim for Will into a counter can leaves you SOL if your opponent has any sort of a clock.

Yawgmoth's Bargain would be played in the deck before Grim Tutor. Again, the reason Bargain isn't in the deck is because it's 6 mana.

[LSV]

I really hated Grim Tutor back in the old 6-7 Ritual decks, and it's much worse in this one. We had some discussion about this deck in the Eudemonia Pearl results thread (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35549.0) and to reiterate what was said there, this deck flows much smoother when it moves away from the clunkier 3-mana spells like Tinker and Grim Tutor towards a draw engine focused on Brainstorm, Ponder, and Gush.

[Cunningbeaver]

Here is the list i played last Sat (april 5th) to a finals split at Bluebell. I have been playing a list similar to this since the unrestriction of gush.
Switching from Grim/Pitch long.

3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Doomsday
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens

1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Fact or Fiction

1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal

2 Misdirection
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of will
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress

Sideboard      1 Tinker
                    1 Sundering Titan
                    1 Jester's Cap
                    1 Hurkyl's Recall
                    2 Energy Flux
                    2 Red Elemental Blast
                    3 Tarmogoyf
                    4 Leyline of the Void


Beaver

[XxtSundaybxX]

Yo Beaver, Allen here, congrats on the finish I wish I could have been there.

Anyway what are your thoughts on doomsday as you piloted the deck to results, was it worth playing?

I strongly disagree with grim tutor in this deck, I agree with eric that doomsday achieves the same result for alot less mana.

Haunted:
I see where your coming from with research but I don't think it fits properly in the deck.

[Zieby]

@ Beaver: Congratz with the result. I have  a few question on your list.

Why do you not play twister?
-Is it that you replaced the twister with the Fact so you opponent would not draw any cards.

Why no Time Walk?
- you play ETW is Time Walk not really good with ETW in the deck. It ennable's the win  now possebillity with ETW because of the extra turn.

How does Library of Alexandria working for you?
-I think that this deck is not a control deck and with LoA you will mannourve yourself in this roll quite often, this is just mi personel thought and maybe mi playstyle.

How did the Tinker targets work for you?
The Cap is a card i really like. I used it many tournaments in the time i was playing a form of Long.

The last question. Is red really neccesary?
The REB are replaceble with discard effect like thoughtseize and if you really want a seccond win condition maindeck you could play Brain Freeze (Or Cunning Wish --> Brain Freeze)

I like the discusion so far and i learned alot from it, so keep up the good work and thanks to you guys.

Greetz Zieby

[Cunningbeaver]

@ Zieby

   On FoF - Yes I have been using it in replace of  twister mainly. The idea I had was, it let me see 5 cards at instant speed for only 1 more mana.
    It also doesnt allow for a "soft reset" on a game that may or not be stalled.
   Giving 7 new cards to flash/oath or any shop deck is not something I think to highly of.

  EtW is just sort of "there" it allows you combo minimally w/o using all your resources or letting yourself offguard.
   I cannot really recall  a time where I went all in with it to try to put the game away. Hence why no Time Walk.
  Other than Empty it doesn't seem to really serve a significant purpose to me.

  Which sort of leads into your question about "Why red?" I like the option of having ReB in the board,and sometimes fire/ice.
  There are times where if that EtW  was another tendrils it might only hit for 6-10 which could potentially leave you in a bad position
   whereas if those spells generate tokens you have set a pretty effective clock.

  Library has worked really well for me. One of the things I like the most about it is, if you can play it first turn it will often change your opponents mindset as to
  how fast you can actually go off. Being able to activate it once or twice can really shore up those turn 2-3 wins that may other wise seem shakey. There have
  been quite a few games that have been won on library alone just on the sheer card draw it can generate for you,it also has great synergy with the top deck tutors
  and gush/brainstorm. There have been numerous occassions where I have activated and in response tutored up what I to need to win.

  As for tinker in the sideboard I love it. Mainly just for cap and if/when I use it again I will more than likely make the Titan a 3rd ReB or fire/ice.
  Being able to tinker --> cap in game 2 against flash/oath/drain tendrils/mirror can and will make people scoop.
 
  Doomsday is a card I am still on the fence about. It is possibly due to my lack of experience with it. While it can win you games on the spot there are times
   when your looking at it wondering what it could have been to help attain your goal. For now I will continue to use it as that spot and the Imperial Spot are
  floaters for me.

  Again this deck can have many itterations, and only with time can you feel out which cards work best for you.
  The list previously posted could work great for me but you may shuffle it up and say to yourself "How in the hell does he win with this pile?"
  Alot of it can be attributed to play style and familiarity with what the deck will produce for me.
  I have been playing this list since the unrestriction of gush and have tuned it to what I think works best for me.
 
   Hopefully those that are trying this deck or a similar version can find what works for them and get results.

 

[Zieby]

@ Beaver:
Thhx's for the comments on my questions.

-On the twister subject i agree with you and i'm also looking for a replace ment but i'm hessitant for the use of Fact because it's  mana and if you can pay  mana then why not play Gifts Ungiven.

-On ETW i agree with the function of ETW but is that the extra collor worth?
-On time walk it can mean an extra landdrop and an extra card for the investment of only  . and thats in the worst case senario. So i can not see why you chose not to run it in a deck thats trying to go for a combo finish.

-On LoA: i think we play the deck verry different.
I also started tinkering with this deck after the moment Gush was released from the restriction list, but i think you can better play ponders over LoA because LoA can be a Dead Draw and Ponder is in mi expereance never a dead draw.
Look at the latest GAT list for example. Those decks where THE decks to play LoA but they choose to play ponders instead, because the flexibillity of the card.

That brings me to the last question I had overlooked last time. Why NO Ponder?
I believe as several others in this thread (if interperted it correct) that this cards makes TTS tick together with Gush.

After reading a Topic about K.I.T.T. i realised that Twister could also be replaced with the following card so I wanna drop this card for discuion.
I must admit that i have not mutch time to test because i am in the middle of renovating mi home. So don't Flame me if it really sucks.
But he every thougth is something to look at.
___________________
 
Infernal Contract.
Sorcery
Pay half your life.
Draw 4 cards.
___________________

Could this be a card to replace Twister.
You could take an extra cabal ritual instead of the Mana Crypt and an extra Tendrils that replaces a Scroll or an other card of your choice.
I rever to the list i posted on page 4.

Pros:
-Draws 4 cards without the opponent draws any cards.
-Cost is  mana instead of  if you are playing Fact. Thats  mana less so eassier to achief.
-It makes the rituals less situationel and you can make better use of them.

Cons:
-You must pay half your life.
-The need for rituals is somewhat increased, thats why i suggest to replace the mana crypt with a Cabal Ritual.
-Its a sorcery (i don't believe its a con but if you take fact in cossideration, it is something you need to think of)

I would like to here all your thoughts. And sorry if mi English is not that good,
the reason is that it is not mi mother language, so forgive me for the mistakes i make.

Greetz Zieby

[XxtSundaybxX]

Why do you guys want to cut twister? Its the best spell to recover lost/countered bombs. What if your opponent duresses your will, or counters it? This deck is very will reliant so any chance to win with will is going to be your best bet. The only possible argument could be the flash matchup, but you can just board it out or you can pitch it to force. Timetwister is nuts, and I think its a mistake to cut it from the deck.

As far as empty goes...everytime ive come up short on a lethal tendrils ive been able to set up the next turn win with my second tendrils, making it just as effective as empty. Another bonus is that with this particular deck becasue of all of the draw spells your Necro draws dont always set you up with a lethal kill so you can mini tendrils and then necro again, which you can't do with empty.

[hauntedechos]

On Twister:  I wouldn't cut this draw 7.  Unlike other Draw seven, the fact that it is on colour, is cheap and most importantly, scoops your yard into the deck, make it indispensable.  Unlike Jar, where there is a chance for cards to get locked out of the game, then tossed to the bin, on top of being reliant on Tinker to efficiently fire off, Twister is a stand alone, solid draw 7.  Game two, if you are up against combo, then side it out if you feel that it's a liability (then again the same could be said about the Tinker/Jar set up *thinks*).

On what to do to increase asymetrical draw:  I have been a supporter of both Fact and Gifts in TTS, regardless of being shot down numerous times for it.  I realize that cost is an issue, as well as the need to pass the turn, however you are going to win on your next turn.  In the Flash match up, side Gifts out.  Against ichorid, you could really fetch out additional hate if that's what you feel you need.  The key thing I feel about Gifts, is much the same as I feel about DoomsDay, set the damn thing up, it's not going to win for you.

DoomsDay:  It's set up and wins on the spot.
Fastbond: Is set up when we have Gush in hand as well as a few other goodies to abuse it, Yawgs Will loves the card as well.
Tutors:  Grabs the enablers that will win us the game.
Gifts:  Grabs the cards that will win us the game.

On Research:  I was looking at the card today (I was a little "under the weather" and started starring), and looked at Development..why are we not using this card in the ETW slot?  It either nets you an Ancestral or three beaters...and the cost can be accommodated, especially for the crypt users in the house.  I'd like to hear some thoughts on the card from anyone that has used the card with any amount of testing.

Haunted.

[hauntedechos]

Ok so I'm a thread whore, I know it and I'm fine with it.

I was skulking through some tourney reports and there was a left handed comment about Orchards being the tech against the Oath match, crazy or fact?  Could this be something that we should be taking a serious look at?  It provides us with a rainbow land that can hold the Oath player back, requiring a Show/Tell to get off.  Let's discuss this.

Haunted.

Added bonus to the Magic heads out there:  Discuss the addition of Orchard as a solution to Oath vs. the SB space it takes up against the rest of the field.  Contrast this to the current Vintage meta and sculpt a SB that has merits in combating the rest of the field.  Are there more efficient SB cards to combat Oath that spread across the field to decent effect, or are we looking at direct needs against Ichorid, Flash and TSOath?

[Purple Hat]

5 mana for 3 3/1's?  or more likely 5 mana for some combination of 3/1's and cards?  seems pretty bad.

[Will]

I believe the answer to oath lies in Engineered Plague.  For oath set it at Spirit and watch them squirm, I played it vs. Fish on Wizard and shut him down killing Bob and Mindcensor, For Flash name Zombie or Sliver.  Goblins is obvious and some other matchups can be minimally helped.  I have been retrying Desire in this deck after I felt I was lacking some gas and ability to combo out because I could make mana but never storm up to 10 for the kill or get the tendrils in the right time with enough mana.  Desire definitely helps this and I am trying out DSC in the main as something other than Warrens to tinker in if you think it is better than jar. 

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@wmagzoo7
Engineered plague is not a very good solution to oath of druids. Typically against combo, oath will sb into a combo extirpate type deck(it doesn't want to cast oath and pass turn at risk of you comboing them out). If you set engineered plague to spirits game two, you've made forbidden orchard the best city of brass I've ever seen before.
I also really don't find engineered plague to be good against flash. Its, at best, a slower (and counterable) leyline of the void, that can be removed via chain the same way leyline can. Not to mention you risk setting Engineered plague to the wrong choice when they sb in slivers or into oath (both are common sb options for flash). Your opponent might even throwyou for a complete loop and play the goyf+ trygon predictor mix.

[XxtSundaybxX]

I completely agree that engineered plague is not a very good answer to oath. Among all of the other reasons listed its also a little slow.

Also how is the oath matchup playing out for you guys? Is it that big of a concern? I have tested it and its a pretty even matchup and g2 you have extirpates as well as Reb. All I'm saying is that I think packing 4x orchard inyour sb against a deck you already have a decent match against seems odd.

As for desire, I dont think it fits inthe deck for a few reasons. Its 6 mana and you want to keep a low curve with this deck. Also this deck does not run near the acceleration that long plays to cast desire. And lastly, desire is a card that pretty much requires you to go all in, and the deck is very very bomb light, so your chances of revealing a relevant spell are slim and your chances of winning are even slimmer with out mana floating after desire to draw into the tendrils.

[Zieby]

The reason that i want to find a way to cut twister without weakning the deck is, I have lost more then a few games in tournaments because i casted Twister.
This can also mean that i make the wrong plays but i realy dont like it to give mi opponent 7 new cards and a fresh graveyard, exept against ichorid.

I Tested desire a while back and it is to expensive to cast it frequently, most of the time you must wait to long before you can cast it.

On the Oath subject.
I believe that the plan of TTS is in its favor against oath. If we can board in extirpate and spellsnare's i believe we dont have to be really afraid.

[rologa]

Hi guys, I have played this deck since kobefan publish is first list and I was playing similar decks (Gush storm based decks) since the unrestriction of Gush. I dislike the direction where the list is going lately because in my experience is not a good path and I will try to explain why.

Before playing TTS I played Gush Tendrils (with 4 Merchant Scrolls and no Necropotence) and I have some good results but I dislike the dependence of the Fastbond and Gush engine. If you didn't find Fastbond quickly or the opponent nullify Gush (with Extirpates for exemple) it was very difficult to win. In return you have some spectacular games winning in first or second turns.

I started playing TTS because it wasn't as dependent about Fastbond as Gush Tendrils and because Necropotence is really a bomb that can winning you a lot of games.

With the initial list I dislike Tinker-Jar because his inconsistency in this deck, sometimes you don't have the artifact, some times after activation you didn't find enough gas to win, etc. I started to explore possibilities and try some Merchant Scrolls, Scroll Rack, Infernal Contract, Night Whisper, etc. After trying this draw spells I found out that the deck see a lot of cards but have few bombs and an intelligent opponent can avoid then I win you in the middle game. I come to the conclusion that if you spend the first turns trying to draw cards and casting Merchant Scrolls to try to combo out after controlling the first turns Empty Gush is a much better deck to do this.

So I start again to include some more bombs in the deck. I try Gifst Ungiven, Fact or Fiction and Doomsday. I discard Fact early because is cost and because isn't a bomb really, you don't win after calling it. Gifts were better but is casting cost can be problematic sometimes and the only combination I find a winner one was that involve Necro, Lotus and 2 tutors supposing you have enough life to exploit Necropotence. Doomsday is different. I was one of the first to test it after some Spanish boy start to use it. It wins now if you have the correct cards in your hand and it is really a bomb. But the problem I find is that when you have it you play around it, trying to protect it and searching the cards needed to combo (dark ritual and gush or brainstorm and some protection). This strategy delay you one or two turns a lot of games and could make easy the game to your opponent. The Spanish boy who start to play with it play also 2 Xantids making is use more safe. My conclusion was that isn't a bad card but the delay required to be sure you don't lost using it don't worth it.

Then I need some more bombs and I try again with Memory Jar and Tinker but trying to built the deck to exploit more this bomb. To do it I added more permanent artifacts, replacing Petal with Crypt, and replacing off color moxes with Sol Ring and Vault. This make the deck more explosive and then I added one more bomb that I could't play before because his cost, Bargain. I added also a Cabal Ritual to facilitate the casting of the Bargain.
With this configuration I find the deck is more explosive, casting always something relevant in turn 2 or 3 and is more consistent that Super Long because have Gush to recover quickly.

This is the list I am playing at present:

Mana Sources
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Back Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual

Draw Engine
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Gush
1 Time Walk

Bombs and Tutors
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmouth's Will
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Yawgmouth's Bargain
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

Defense
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth

Finisher
1 Tendrils of Agony

Just my two cents.

Roberto.

[ErkBek]

Excellent post Roberto.

Mana Vault is long overdue in this deck. I helps solve all of the problems people have been having with the bombs.

(1) Sacs to Tinker
(2) Helps cast Memory Jar without blowing your hand on it
(3) Helps prevent fizzles off Twister because it nets 3 mana if played the turn earlier

Mana Vault + Bargain is basically a mini combo, so adding them together makes a lot of sense. 

The only thing I don't like about your list is dropping to 3 Ponders. I'm never disappointed to draw Ponder. There's 3 cards fighting in this final slot then: 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Cabal Rit, and Imperial Seal. Not sure here.

Also, I think Chain of Vapor is the call since Chalice is basically nonexistent right now.

Next time I get to test I'll be trying your list Roberto.

[ashiXIII]

All I want to say is that Twister is amazing in this deck. I don't think I've ever cast it and then lost the game.

[hitman]

As a player that doesn't often pick up combo, couldn't the card to be cut for the fourth Ponder be Time Walk?  There's no Colossus in this list.  Is it there for when you have GushBond and want to untap after drawing a bunch of cards to just win?

[ErkBek]

As a player that doesn't often pick up combo, couldn't the card to be cut for the fourth Ponder be Time Walk?  There's no Colossus in this list.  Is it there for when you have GushBond and want to untap after drawing a bunch of cards to just win?

Time Walk is really good at making up for lost land drops from Gush.

[Negator13]

Agreed, excellent post rologa. You seem to have had almost exactly the same experience/problems I've had with this type of deck over the course of the year. I'm definitely going to try out your build. Just a couple questions though:
Can your build really keep up with Flash? It seems a little on the slow side with a minimal amount of disruption.
Have you tried Mind's Desire?
Also, can you post your current sideboard and some general boarding plans vs Oath, Flash, Gat, Stax, and Ichorid?

[rologa]

@all: Thanks for the compliments 

The only thing I don't like about your list is dropping to 3 Ponders. I'm never disappointed to draw Ponder. There's 3 cards fighting in this final slot then: 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Cabal Rit, and Imperial Seal. Not sure here.

I cut Ponder because I need some space in the main and cannot like to cut disruption or business. I like Ponder, but sometimes I find out that having it in multiples didn't help me as much as I would like if I don't want to shuffle after casting first. It is a good card, but isn't as good as Brainstorm and is more limited. Anyway I don't discard return to 4 Ponder but for the moment I will try with 3.
From the 3 cards you propose for replacement the only card I doubt about it is Cabal Ritual, but I'm not sure if after quitting it I can have problems to cast Bargain or to exploit better draw 7.

Can your build really keep up with Flash? It seems a little on the slow side with a minimal amount of disruption.
Have you tried Mind's Desire?
Also, can you post your current sideboard and some general boarding plans vs Oath, Flash, Gat, Stax, and Ichorid?

I'm not sure about Flash match. Until now I haven't had problems with it but I haven't test a lot because in my meta isn't a predominant deck until now. With the current disruption I think you can stop it from winning the first 2 turns and after that you have advantage. After boarding more disruption and Leylines I don't think you have less options.

I try Mind's Desire before adding Bargain and I don't have problems to cast it for 6 to 8 storm counts, but more than once I couldn't win after this and I start to think that maybe isn't the card I need. I suppose it was bad luck, but after replacing it with Bargain I don't want to  undo this change. Bargain was easy to cast with all the rituals, need less resources to be effective and after casting it you will win almost always. So I discard to replace Bargain with it and I'm not sure about playing with both in this deck because they can clog your hand.

I'm working in the sideboard and I not sure about all the cards. For now I'm working with:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Extirpate
1-2 Thoughtseize

Against Stax I board Explosives, Pithing Needle, Colossus and Hurky's trying to find the tinker path.
Against Gat, Oath and similar decks I use Extirpates and some thoughtseize depending of the speed of the deck.
Against Ichorid I have lot of cards useful: Leylines, Explosives, Needles
Against Flash I put Thoughtseizes and Needles or Explosives depending of the combo used.

[Negator13]

Lotus Petal may or may not be better than Cabal Rit, as it nets the same amount of mana without threshold but of any color, and without needing black at first. It also lets you cast Fastbond, or multiple blue cards in the same turn.

[XxtSundaybxX]

I strongly dislike bargain in his deck for a few reasons, your playing necro and fastbond, so too often your life is too low when bargain could hit play. Second you have to invest too many sources into it to run into a drain or a force.

As for tinker/jar... If you really wish to play it i would suggest playing a second tendrils to draw into especially if your playing your singleton Crit.

I agree with Negator on the lotus petal...it allows you access to green without having to fetch out your trop. It also makes your will more powerful allowing you to replay it out of the bin.

Timewalk is very good because it essentialy let's you have gush plus a land drop a turn earlier plus it cantrips.

I very much agree with Becker on ponder and I think you should find a way to fit the 4th in.

[Stormanimagus]

Is there any reason this deck can't just be streamlined to cut all the off-color or colorless accel and just run more disruption and cheap draw/deck manipulation?

It doesn't seem like the old "bomb" game of Grim Long really works any more in the modern Vintage environment where decks not only:

a) have a lot of coutners/ discard spells. But also have:

b) a fast clock of their own no matter what.

I've played variations of bomb-rich Grim-Long and Super-Long and they all do well against old school keeper sytle control ONLY because those decks have about 0 clock and give you plenty of time to top-deck something great.

In the new Vintage environment you will not get that chance 99 % of the time against a competent player with a good deck. So what does the game become about then?

Who's in control of the game.

Against Flash it'll be who's in control and you have to try to win that war or else you'll lose. Now I'm not saying this deck SHOULDN'T run some bombs. It should. I just think that those bombs have to be selectively chosen as the cards that require the least committment in resources  in order to be most effective. Cards like Yawg's Bargain are actually inefficient when one takes this in to consideration and, as painful as it is to drop it from such a deck, it may be the prudent move. Not running cards like Bargain allows you to also cut the very VERY suboptimal Cabal Ritual without a sweat.

GY hate is at an all time high now with Ichorid and Flash at the top of the meta. The options for GY hate are also the best they've ever been with Leyline and Extirpate easily accesible to most decks out there. I'd rather not build a deck that relies on Will or Threshold as an avenue to victory. Here's what I've come up with for a working list thus far. It's a bit slower and more disruptive, but has the power to also explode in the opponent's face when they are on their heels. Hope you like (or at least find some usefullness in) this list:

TTS

Land  (14):
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
3 Island

Artifacts (5):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald

Instants (23):
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Chain Of Vapor

Sorceries (16):
4 Ponder
4 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Regrowth
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Enchantments (2):
1 Necropotence
1 Fastbond

SB
?


The total mana + accel may be kinda low, but also notice that most of the spells in the deck are very cheap.

[Negator13]

You acknowledged the proliferation of graveyard hate in the format, and then in the same post posted a decklist that is almost entirely reliant on Yawgmoth's will to get enough mana and storm in one turn to actually win. In my experience, Timetwister doesn't really do it for you with anywhere near enough reliability, especially if Leyline is on the other side of the table. If you're going to run a manalight, bomblight build like that, focusing on disruption, then you NEED, NEED to run at least 1 Doomsday. This will give you something other than Will to win with out of the grave, and you can SB a Research/Dev to beat LotV with DDay.

[bartmarijnissen]

@ rologa

I have seen your list:

''Mana Sources
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Back Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual

Draw Engine
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Gush
1 Time Walk

Bombs and Tutors
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmouth's Will
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Yawgmouth's Bargain
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

Defense
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth

Finisher
1 Tendrils of Agony''

Why did you not play pact of negation? Do you have not a problem with the always blue card pitching for force of will? I think you can better play fow and misdirection like pitch long did or fow and pact. I think it is more stabiler by pitch your blue card.

[XxtSundaybxX]

Pact of negation is not a good choice because you dont always know if your going to win when you start comboing out, sometimes you just draw nuts or you randomly draw into will. There are not enough bombs in the deck to support playing Pact.

[tomjoad]

...you NEED, NEED to run at least 1 Doomsday. This will give you something other than Will to win with out of the grave, and you can SB a Research/Dev to beat LotV with DDay.

I haven't played much with Doomsday, but is R&D any good if you can't Desire into it? I mean, having the mana to actually cast it seems plenty possible, but it seems like it would get tight too often. Is this impression wrong?

[Negator13]

...you NEED, NEED to run at least 1 Doomsday. This will give you something other than Will to win with out of the grave, and you can SB a Research/Dev to beat LotV with DDay.

I haven't played much with Doomsday, but is R&D any good if you can't Desire into it? I mean, having the mana to actually cast it seems plenty possible, but it seems like it would get tight too often. Is this impression wrong?

as an edit:  I found a line of play that involves leyline in play:

Cast Gush with Leyline in play (nothing else needed)
Lotus (for UUU)
Ancestral
Lotus Petal (for G)
Brainstorm
Research -> Lotus, Petal, Tendrils

You board in R/D against opponents with Leylines in their boards, and basically use them as a combo piece for this play. It would be narrow, except everyone is running Leyline. And if they don't board in the Leyline, that's even better because then you can just win with standard Will plays or Dday stacks. My build runs 1 Dday main and 2 R/D board, because then you can board in 1 R/D and use it to shuffle in combo pieces if you've already used them plus the other R/D remaining the board, so that you can do the combo.