Cycling drain life deck

[merlin83221]

I need help and ideas on ways to improve this deck.
Drain life deck:
Lands
4x Polluted Mire
4x Drifting Meadow
4x Swamp
4x Blasted Landscape
2x Remote Isle
Creatures
4x Twisted Abomination
4x Barkhide Mauler
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Disciple of Grace
4x Disciple of Malice
4x Pendrell Drake
4x Disciple of Law
Spells
4x Ritual of Restoration
4x Songs of the Damned
4x Consume Spirit
4x Fluctuator

The point of the deck is to cycle the creatures as fast as possible and grab the songs of the damned and consume spirits with enough creature cards in the graveyard to drain someone's life to 0.

What do you think and what would be the best way to improve it with keeping the idea of the deck still intact. Oh I would prefer to have this deck as cheap as possible since i don't have much money/not much cards before kamigawa in my card pool and I need a decent deck for vintage tournaments. This is a very low cost deck as is. If you have ideas that would make the deck better but would make it very very expensive, aka black lotus, you can give the advice and i will take it but it would be for the future when I can work my way into getting that card.

Thanks for any help!

[hauntedechos]

WOW, this is certainly different from anything I've ever seen.

everything costs 2 for cycling, that means you need mana acceleration. 

Understanding you cannot afford power (are you allowed proxies in your area?), what about Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual and  Culling the weak as possibilities?  Dark Ritual and Culling the weak cost  and Cabal Ritual costs  .  Cabal Ritual provides  when you have threshold (7 cards or more in your graveyard).  All of these would allow you to rammp the mana up faster than the principal you are working with now w/o acceleration.  Sol Ring and  Mana Vault would provide colourless mana for cycling while Lotus petal and chome Mox could provide on colour mana.  Granted that all these cards will take up massive slots in the deck and cut away from the current idea you are working with, but it would be faster.

I know you want to keep the presented idea intact, but allow me to indulge in another possible route to draining to 0.

The Acceleration: 15

4 Dark Ritual $.29 Urzas saga
4 songs of the dead
4 Cabal Ritual $.68
1 Lotus Petal $1.69
1 Sol Ring $5.99 (revised edition)
1 Mana Vault $1.16 (revised edition)

the Kill: 6

4 Drain Life $.08 (revised)
2 Consume Spirit

Creatures: 12

4 Deciple of Malice
4 Street Wraith $.47
4 Twisted abomination
4 Barkhide Mauler

Utility: 5

1 Entomb - puts a chosen card of any type in the grave yard.  Costs  $6.35
4 Buried Alive - choose up to 3 creatures and put them in the yard.  Costs  $1.99
4 Fluctuator

Land: 14

3 Cabal Coffers (listed as less than $5.00 ea.) - gives you  for each swamp you control (spend and  )
4 Polluted Mire
7 swamps

To be honest, to give this deck at least some sort of chance, you really should break the bank and get yourself a Yawgmoth's will ($9.99), Demonic tutor ($5.49 - Revised) and Vampiric tutor ($8.31 - Visions).  All 3 of thoes cards are Vintage staples (meaning they are found in many, many, Vintage decks).  I count 24 cards that cycle and all but the 4 lands are creatures to support your efforts to abuse Songs of the dead.  I would suspect that if Songs of the dead were Culling the weak ($.49 -  sacrifice a creature add  ) you would be better off because you have many creatures that can be cast (notice I refined the list to attemp to be mono  in nature) and adding in Ornithopter ($.39 Mirroden  casting cost for a 0/2 flying artifact creature) would up the castable creatures to abuse Culling the Weak.  I don't think that adding Culling while abusing Songs is a good idea unless you up the Drain Life/Consume Spirit count.

As a question:  Does fluctuator reduce the cost of cycling to  ? or can it only take it to  ?

[Spacebalzz]

Howdy,

I tried a similar Fluctuator-styled Drain deck a while back and really liked Infernal Contract in it.  Because you have non-fluctuating cards in the deck (i.e. Songs, Ritual, etc.) you occasionally hit a point when you can no longer cycle cards.  Infernal Contract lets you draw 4 more cards to cycle and continue going nuts.

Often, you can go:

Ritual --> Fluctuator (B Float) --> Cycle, Cycle, etc --> Songs (for like 12 or more) --> Contract --> Cycle more --> Songs --> Drain.

The problem is that any disruption completely neuters this deck and there really aren't alot of viable ways to deal with it.  The problem with Drain Life (or Consume Spirit) is that it really just takes a counterspell to stop it.  It almost be more viable to run tendrils and just hope to play multiple Songs, Contracts, Rituals, CoFs, etc. to reach a high storm count.  I thought maybe Duress effects, but you can't really run them in quantity because they mess up your "smooth fluctuation". 

Tutors may also be useful.  Demonic/Vampiric/Consult.  Maybe just consult, since it cost only B and puts the card right in your hand.


@Hauntedechoes:

Mana Accel here is a bad idea.  The only thing this deck is trying to do is play Fluctuator, then cycle alot of creatures into the grave, play 2+ Songs of the Damned and a Consume Spirit.   Colorless mana accel only inhibits this plan.  The only mana accel I would suggest is on-color stuff--ideally, Lotus, Petal and Mox Jet.  If he can't afford the 2 powerful ones, I suggest simply petal.

Anyway, just some thoughts,

-Matt

[merlin83221]

from what i know it should drop it down to 0 mana. aka why that card is so good in the deck. you basicly cycle until you can't cycle anymore. and if I have it out I won't have to worry about mana to cycle cards. your hints are really good. I will look into them in depth. Also I like consume spirit a whole lot more then drain life. just read the card. consume gives you life even if the damage was prevented. drain life only gives life equal to the damage.

Also I don't think proxies are legal in DCI tournaments. Also I could use other people's advice too. So even if it isn't much I want to hear ideas. Ever little bit helps. Thanks for the great advice.

PS: Funny card that will own a deck like this. Guiltfeeder. super powerful if someone fill there graveyard. hehe

PPS: I just thought. Is cycling considered playing a spell. If I remeber right you can not respond to cycling.

[merlin83221]

I took some of your guys advice. Here is a revison of the deck.

// Lands
    3  Swamp
    4  Polluted Mire
    4  Blasted Landscape
    4  Drifting Meadow

// Creatures
    4  Cloud of Faeries
    4  Disciple of Law
    4  Disciple of Malice
    4  Disciple of Grace
    4  Barkhide Mauler

// Spells
    1  Lotus Petal
    4  Dark Ritual
    4  Cabal Ritual
    4  Songs of the Damned
    4  Infernal Contract
    4  Fluctuator
    4  Consume Spirit

It seems to work alot better. But still could be better. haven't had a chance to deal with a disruption deck vs this modiffied version. What do you guys think of the changes?
Thanks for the advice and I would love more.

[VorpalBunnyDuby]

I actually use to play this when i first started to play in legacy before moving onto vintage, good times.
 Anyways, if i remember my old deck it looked alot like yours is now, except that i used a card called reaping the graves.
 
Card Type: Instant 
cost : 2B
Rules Text (Oracle):  Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.) 

What this card did is once i emptied my hand andneeded more gas for the win, i think i used haunted misery at the time, i would get all my cycled guys back after blazing through rits and and draw spells and got to cycle into more stuff till i got my win.
I have to say this though, force of wills and duress effects are common in this format so you might want to try running a few duress or upping the blue creature count to support force of will.
Good luck, this deck was always a blast to play since you just sit there throwing cards back and forth from your hand to the grave while your opponent just sits there till you win.

[Burntgerbil]

have you looked at living death as an alternate win condition for this deck ? That would lower your mana count needed if you just had a ton of guys in the yard - it also gives you the bonus of stopping an aggro deck if you can power it out early with rituals and songs.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

You may want to test Serum Powder to improve your chances of mulliganing into an opening hand with Fluctuator in it.

[merlin83221]

Actualy I remebered a card that would work alot better as an alternate win condition.
Mortal Combat
it is an enchantment that says I win if I have 20 creatures in my gaveyard during my upkeep. and that would fit alot better in the deck then trying to return them.

[hauntedechos]

LOL Merlin, I just got up this morning, checked this thread and thought of Mortal Combat myself...only to see you have it posted heh.

@ Spacebalzz:  I know that my offering defies the linear strategy of an "all-in" combo abusing the cycling mechanism.  I do however think that this linerar tactic is only going to upstage pure aggro builds...and as you are aware, this does not represent the whole of the Vintage Format.  My primary concern was with Storm Combo, in specific an attempt to force the pilot to create increased storm counts to win, hence the ability to produce smaller chained Consume combos.  I forsee that this strategy is weaker versus the aggro field, yet feel that this can be remedied with proper sideboarding tactics.

@ Merlin:  Artifacts are being abused right now, this should imply that you need to suppliment your  base with  so that you have acess to Artifact removal.  Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Sphere of resistence and Thorn of amnethis will be very dificult for you to work with once they are resolved.    does have Soul Burn, if you so chose to Main Deck  answers.    also opens up the avenue of Lightning bolts and Shocks for the aggro match up.  In concerns with Mortal combat, it actually may be better Main Deck for game one and then side it out for game two and possibly three.  This is because your opponent will bring in Leyline of the Void/Tormod's Crypt to deal with you.  Once they do this, Songs of the Dead becomes a dead card as well as Mortal Combat, due to the fact that you will have no creatures in your graveyard and further no way of removing the Leyline.  From this respect, it would seem desireable to link as many spells together as possible to avoid yard dependancy.  I don't know if this is possible while trying to keep the deck running smooth off cycling effects.

cheers guys and have fun developing this deck.

Haunted Echos

[twault]

This is an old deck that has been around for quite some time. It is quite fun, but it loses in a competitive environment. Trust me, if it was good, I'd totally play it at every tournament....that's how fun it is. Losing, however, is not fun. I've been working on this deck for several years now. It's just sitting in sleeves waiting for the right cards to be created. Oh, and I built the whole thing for under $20!

Here is the problem: You need certain non-cycling cards to make it better, but if you add too many non-cycling cards, you'll run out of gas. I tried adding some draw elements to refill my hand, but that didn't help, because you need to win fast. By adding draw, I had to wait a turn for colored mana to be on-board. Secondly, you need a backup plan, because any disruption means you lose.

Some ideas that I've tried:

1) Cycle 6 creatures via Fluctuator--->Songs of the Damned---->Yawgmoth's Bargain---->Draw a bunch and cycle away.

2) Adding red is a GOOD idea, because it gives you Wheel of Fortune, which is awesome in this deck. However, more importantly, it gives you a card that gives this deck a fighting chance: Kaervek's Torch. Eventually, your opponent will just FOW your Songs of the Damned, but the first time you dump 21 creatures and play the Torch, enjoy the feeling.

Here are some points: cycling does not count as playing a spell. It can't be countered, but it can be Stifled.

So, Tendrils as a backup won't work.

3) IMO Living Death is the best bet for an alternate win condition, because it only requires you to cycle 5 creatures and drop Songs into Living Death. Run the biggest creatures that have a cycling cost of 2 or less.

4) Street Wraith is basically the only card I've added in 4 years. It is stupendous. Don't hesitate for one second to use this.


I don't think Serum Powder would be a good choice, because it's a dead draw and you really don't want to remove any creatures from the game. You really have to be careful about what non-cycling cards that you use.

[merlin83221]

also there is another good news about this deck. so far it is legacy legal too. so I could build this deck for both formats. aka a 2 for 1. when i get off work tonight I will review the new posts in depth.

funny thing is i was testing out a deck a long time ago in MWS and ran up against this very deck. It was so amusing that I decided to try to remake it. so it has been sitting in MWS until there was a reason to make a vintage deck in this area. and now the time has come.

[twault]

I don't play Legacy, but it probably has a better shot there. With having access to 4 x Lion's Eye Diamond, 4 x Chrome Mox, and/or 4 x Lotus Petal. Possibilities....

[merlin83221]

well i hadnt thought of that. i was referring to the fact that if this stays legal for both formats i only have to build 1 deck if i want to play in those formats. also yes i could run more of those cards but also more of the meaner cards vs this deck are banned so it would increase its chances. but for now lets think of ideas on how to improve the deck.

[Elfrago]

You should really find a way to add some protection to the deck. Right now it loses to a single counterspell on fluctuator (not to mention first turn duress or 'seize). At least four duress are needed.
Also, have a look at the onslaught cards that do something when you cicled (like decree of justice), maybe you can find something useful among them.
Btw, serum powder looks good in this deck.

[twault]

Here's the thing: You can win faster by sticking with mono-black spells and using consume spirit as a win condition, but it's very fragile. I honestly think from my own experience that it's better to wait another turn, get a red mana source, and win via Torch.

So, here's what I'd add (unless you wanted to proxy cards and/or not stick to a budget):

1 x Lotus Petal

4 x Street Wraith

2 x Kaervek's Torch

1 x Living Death

1 x Wheel of Fortune

[hauntedechos]

You need a way to protect your artifacts.  This is where the counter will be played in addition to the kill card itself.  Being that this has a sort of combo feel to it, 4 Duress is minimum.  you need enough mana to both cast your artifact and then have  up to clear the way for the kill card.  Here's a bit of advice though, don't cast the Duress while the kill card is in your hand.  If they Misdirect it, they take the kill card.  So cast the Duress before you draw into the win condition.

good luck,
Haunted

[captreynolds]

First off I would like to say I like the idea behind this deck.  I would recomend running 4 Duress.

Hauntedechoes is wrong Duress cannot be Misdirected because it says target opponent NOT target player.


Hymn to Tourach & Thoughtseize would not be bad ideas either, but they can be Misdirected, because they say target player.  On that note however very few decks right now run Misdirection, as it has limited uses as a counterspell. 

Since you are not aiming for Legacy a Memory Jar could be useful in this deck as well.  This would also allow you to stay with mono black but get a similar benefit of Wheel of Fortune.

Being a long time player of control decks, mainly Control Slaver right now, you still face an uphill battle.  I don't know what decks people in your area play, but you might consider running some blue.

Negate a common from Morningtide is a good option for you to protect your win.   For Counter target non-creature spell.  This would allow you to relatively cheaply counter an opponent's counterspell (Force of Will, Mana Drain etc.).
I would run 4 of these.

This would also allow you to run 4 Mana Leak as well.  Mana Drains would be a better option, but I get the feeling you are trying to stick to a budget deck and at about $100 a piece they are kinda pricey.  The Drain mana could be used for cycling abilities, and to power out the win with mana to spare for a counter war.

Brainstorm would get some good drawing going, but you also have your cycling engine for that too.

Although if you were to switch your draw engine to a blue base, since these are all spells, you could play a Tendrils of Agony.  I have seen several players win with absolutely none of the "Power 9" cards in their deck. For now though let's assume that you want to keep the cycling.

Another potential problem is Stax, or other Workshop based decks, against which Rebuild or Hurkyll's Recall is an excellent option, but again both of these require at least a  to cast.

Just some thoughts and ideas for you to consider, like I said I don't know what sort of decks, and corntol situations you are going to be facing with this deck so all I can do is share my own experiences.

-- Capt. Reynolds

1|= y0u (4|\| r3@d 7#][5, y0|_| /\r3 @ |V|0|\|$+3|2 &33|<

[ryc3]

My friend had a similiar deck.  Ran Living Dead as his alternate win condition.

[Hellsing293]

Disruption is what will kill this deck.  I don't think that this deck can be mono black just due to the need for removing permanents that will give the deck problems.  Chalice for 2 is probably an automatic win for the opponent.  Even if your response was a simple bounce which lets you go off, you need something.

I wouldn't worry too much about counter spells your running enough cards like Songs of the Damned. 
Yawg's Will is a definite need since your dealing with counters.  Also, with Yawg's Will you could cycle the cards in your graveyard if you stall out and you need to keep drawing(except your creatures would be removed afterwards).

I suggest Pact of Negation could save you the turn you are trying to go off.  In case they counter your consume spirit and you will definantly lose the next turn, Pact of Negation can be that free counterspell without having to commit to splashing blue like you would if you were running Force of Wills.

[zeus-online]

Try Empty the catacombs, but really, this deck has no chance against serious Vintage decks.

/Zeus

[Elfrago]

 Also, with Yawg's Will you could cycle the cards in your graveyard if you stall out and you need to keep drawing(except your creatures would be removed afterwards).

No, sir. With Yawg's, you can PLAY the cards in your grave, but you can't cicle them.