[Discussion] Mono R Shop or MUD

[Red Irish]

@Thicketman:

On the basis of your local metagame analysis, I think I would probably run the following sideboard:

2 Spawning Pit
3 Jester's Cap
3 Viashino Heretic
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroclasm

My own sideboard list is posted above and I think that it is fairly balanced. You seem to want to include an answer for every possibility rather than focusing and limiting your responses and I would advise against this strategy.

As far as the main deck is concerned, I would consider the following changes:

- Remove at least one Masticore
- Remove Red Elemental Blast. I don't like this card in Aggro Shop for a number of reasons: it requires you to leave mana untapped to act in response to your opponent rather than putting threats on to the table (reactive rather than proactive); it is only useful against decks that run sufficient counters to deal with it; Oath will probably side in Sky Swallower or Platinum Angel, whereby Blast becomes ineffective. I think your only response against Flash is to get spheres on to the table quickly followed by a fat creature, subsequently boarding in Tormod’s Crypt. Flash can kill on Turn 0, but I think it is less consistent than Oath or GAT, and whilst I am not saying that you should not consider your response to this deck, I don’t think that you should board against a Turn 0 Flash win. Having said that, many players successfully run Blast and I am simply putting forward my own reasons for not running this card: it’s your call.
- Remove 1 Sword of Fire and Ice. I think 3 are more than sufficient.
- You could also cut 1 Magus of the Moon. This decision is possibly more controversial. It comes down to this: how many games have you won with the Magus and how many games have you wished you drew something else or wished he was not in play to allow you to use your Workshops/Wastelands etc?

What to do with the slots you have opened up?

I would opt for 3 Tangle Wire.

As I have said, my deck is listed above and I obviously favour my own choices. However, there is no evidence to suggest that my deck is better than any other build and I strongly urge you to run a deck that you feel comfortable with and which incorporates your own personal touches: sometimes deck design comes down to preferences rather than identifying a clear-cut, undisputed inclusion. I am still debating a number of slots and none of my opinions are engraved in stone (that seems like a bad policy in nearly every walk of life). In other words, take my advice with at least a pinch of salt.

Good luck

[VsTheWorld]

Might as well put my list up for discussion here. It's in a constant state of flux and will continue to be until my next tournament.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    2 Ancient Tomb
    6 Mountain

// Creatures
    4 Juggernaut
    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Solemn Simulacrum
    3 Triskelion
    3 Magus of the Moon

// Spells
    1 Sol Ring
    3 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Trinisphere
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Chalice of the Void
    1 Mox Pearl

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Duplicant
SB: 3 Viashino Heretic
SB: 3 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 Jester's Cap
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt

The main difference in my list from the others I've seen in the 3 MD Chalice. I haven't played enough to know if this is the right choice or not, but I have been happy in testing thus far. My love for Chalice probably has something to do with the fact that I'm primarily a Legacy player where I play Faerie/Dragon Stompy. Chalice just seems really good against anything not named Stax, Ichorid, of Goblins. As far as the sideboard, I've been least impressed with Pillar. I want to find room for a 4th Crypt but have no idea what to put in those other two slots. I'm really not sold on Spawning Pit since I don't run Factories, and an Oath player obviously won't continue to feed you Spirit tokens after you drop a Pit. Duplicant + Jester's Cap seems like the best defense against Oath, assuming they can get one to stick through Moon, Spheres, and Chalice.

[Red Irish]

@VsTheWorld

I played Chalice in the main in the MTG Gamblers Tournament in Valencia and I was doing quite well until I met a faster mirror match with a better pilot.

Chalice is phenomenal and wins games single-handedly; however, there are a number of considerations, assuming that your build doesn't run Ravager or Viashino Hereitic in the main in order to deal with setbacks ocassioned by your own lock pieces:

Chalice at 1: do you wait until you play Welder or accept that you now have 4 dead cards in your deck?
Chalice at 2: assuming that you have no Spheres/Thorns in play, do you make this play accepting that you now have at least 8 dead cards in your deck (notwithstanding recurring via Welder)?

The point is, Chalice can often jar with your other strategies. Moreover, it is not necessarily definitive as it can be bounced or targetted with a Stifle.

Having said that, I do miss Chalice in my own deck: opening with a Sphere/Thorn followed by a Chalice at 0 buys you an awful lot of time. I don't think it can be criticised as a slot choice, but the possible drawbacks should be borne in mind.

As far as Spawning Pit is concerned, considering that we all run 18-20 creatures, is it necessary for the opponent to activate the Orchard in order to build up counters? Can't we just play our creatures and sacrifice them once the Oath is on the table? Do we need Factories?

Duplicant seems like a good strategy against Oath, providing they don't board Sky Swallower...

I agree, Cap seems to be the best option against Oath prior to the enchantment coming into play/activating, but Spawning Pit seems to be our only real answer once Oath is in play and I don't think we can discount it.

Why not fill the "other two slots" with Pyroclasm for Fish/Ichorid? Masticore is another option, as is the fourth Cap. In the end, a lot depends on your local metagame.

Cheers

[Thicketman]

I'm contemplating switching to a multicolor stax. It seems more versitile against a variety of metas. I have a lot of fun with aggro, but I also love the locks.

[Thicketman]

I agree, Cap seems to be the best option against Oath prior to the enchantment coming into play/activating, but Spawning Pit seems to be our only real answer once Oath is in play and I don't think we can discount it.

Why not fill the "other two slots" with Pyroclasm for Fish/Ichorid? Masticore is another option, as is the fourth Cap. In the end, a lot depends on your local metagame.

Cheers

I find that Greater Gargadon is much better than spawning pit and can't be countered until it is ready to come into play, which by then you should have them locked out.

As for Pyroclasm, I am not sold on it. The reason being that any good Ichorid player will bust out Flame-kin Zealot as well as all the Bridge tokens in the same turn and attack in which case, a sorcery does you no good. Any good Flash player does the same deal with their little slivers and again, a sorcery does you no good. That is why I was thinking Pyrohemia for Ichorid and Caltrops for Flash. Also, Triskelion is king against Flash.

[VsTheWorld]

Ok so aside from Oath, the other very difficult matchup for Shop Aggro is Ichorid. The obvious SB choices are Tormod's Crypt and Leyline of the Void. Leyline is obviously the more powerful, but requires aggressive mulling as it's only castable off a Lotus if you draw one later. Crypt is less gamebreaking, but can slow down Ichorid enough for you to drop Trisk and start to control things. On the plus side, Leyline can't be hit by a turn 1 Therapy or Unmask and also doubles as Flash, Goyf, and Tog hate. Which does everyone prefer and why?

[hauntedechos]

Grettings my faithfull thread posters,

I've finished up a few more test games.  The testing has been TSOath, R/B thorn goblins w/ Aether Vial and a splash of G for artifact/enchantment removal and Manaless ichorid.

TSOath: 2-0 matches (this testing includes a total of 30+ matches, some two deck testing some vs. my friend) 4-1 games.
Ichorid: 1-1 matches (post board match one, I had to drop out because it was late, but Void was on the table and it was draw go for him) while today it was 1-0 pre board again late night required me to leave before a post board game could happen.
gobins: 1-1 matches, match one I had done a complete deck breakdown and shuffle pile, yet I couldn't draw anything usefull with my deck not yet settled in.  Match 2 was a blow out for me pre and post board.  Match one 1-2 match two 2-0

Ichorid:  turn 1 welder with Duplicant was too much for Ichorid.  Bridges were keep out of the game, ichorid was neutered and spheres kept disruption and Dread return useless.  4waste and 1 strip was also usefull as I ripped a Stripmine topdeck.  I was very surprised to win a game one vs. Ichorid.

Goblins: It's just David vs. Goliath.  Duplicant here was also huge, keeping piledrivers and warchiefs off the field.  Turn one factory, mox also kept thier turn 1 lacky on the play at bay.

TSOath:  The matches where spawning pit hits play were drawn out and I was able to control game state.  70% of the time Oath was ripped turn one or two the latest.  Factories get it done pre board here, post board spawning pit and factories get it done...I didn't own Duplicants untill today so testing with them should make things even worse for the TSOath player.  My friend opted for the plat plan after boarding. I will suggest SSS to him saturday as I want to make the matchup as hard as possible for my build.

Since people are posting thier builds and tweaks I will post mine as it has evolved slightly today.

  scrub Shop v.3

4Shop
2City of Traitors
4Wasteland
1StripMine
4Factories
6Mountains
1Tolarians
1Ancient Tomb
5Moxen
1Black Lotus
1Sol Ring...30

4REB
4Welders
4Juggernaught
3Duplicant

4Sphere
4Thorn
1Trini
4Tanglewire
2Crucible...30

SB is inconsequential as it is always meta dependant.

My list is quickly becomming an actuall hybrid of Stax and  Shop.  This deck doesn't lean on  as the threat density of artifacts and strip effects buy me enough time to make it happen.  I was running Chalice main previously, but a match vs. TSOath in which I needed to choke the flow of spells/answers, locked me out of the game as well...chalice at one and two.  I find that Chalice hurts my build as much as the oponents, so it had to go.  I also found that when I had Chalice, I wished it was something else.  I have a reduced number of dead draws against TSOath, while Factories ad to the virtual body numbers and provide a game one chance that Waste based builds do not.  RED is also a game one chance that should no be overlooked, especially when compounded with the fact that almost every deck in Vintage runs Force of Will.  Keeping R up for  blast is both a mental game and also protection for a threat you really need to resolve.  in early turns, no it's not as viable and desired, however the games I've played tend to go long and a late game rip of ReB when somehow he's managed to activate Oath has bought me enough turns to turn the game around.

Anyways, more posting as I have results...we're planning on moving onto Drain Tendrils next...YAY!

Haunted.

[LotusHead]

As it is unlikely that I will be able to play in the next local tourney (unless someone wants to plege me tourney fee!) (22nd Adventures in Sac), I will post what I've been testing here:



// Lands
    2  Ancient Tomb
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Wasteland
    4  Ghost Quarter

// Creatures
    3  Triskelion
    3  Karn, Silver Golem
    4  Metalworker
    2  Lodestone Myr
    3  Arcbound Ravager

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Memory Jar
    3  Staff of Domination
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Chalice of the Void
    1  Trinisphere
    4  Thorn of Amethyst
    4  Tangle Wire

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Damping Matrix
SB: 4  Uba Mask
SB: 2  Orb of Dreams
SB: 4  Jester's Cap
SB: 2  Platinum Angel


As you see, I've dumped Spheres for just 3Sphere/Thorn.  Thorns hurt my opponent way worse than me, and Spheres hurt me almost as much as them.

Ravager/Lodestone Myr as a random factor. (Ravagers obviously combo with Trikes Rivers Style, and Lodestone Myr tramples and can get big easily).

Null Rods mess this build up, but are not present in my Meta (but are present on MWS).

The sideboard has been fairly good for me (baring opponents getting the Lotus, Tutor, Kataki sorta starts), and the 9 strips have been great against all but 4+ basics.dec (baring Crucible goodness)  (I've played against Bomberman, Tyrant Oath, GushStorm variants and Shop decks mostly.)

The staff thing never works out, but eating up a Force of Will/Duress is at least some good (that's what all lock peices do, eat up a Force or make life difficult for opponent).

[madmanmike25]

Hey LotusHead, if Staff is only FoW bait you might want to switch to Swords.   From my experience, Staff is best with Clamps otherwise it's just way too random to be any good.  You have the creatures to support Sword and you lack any real type of draw engine besides Jar. 

How has GQ been treating you?  How many turns does it take to become Stripmine?  I found GQ was most effective in Stax decks since an amped Smokestack in addition to GQ is quite potent.

If you see enough Rods on MWS, try Crusher in place of Lodestone.  Rod cannot stop Modular as well.  Trampling over Fishy creatures is easy.

[islanderboi10]

I have this problem too.
I usually play 5c Stax, but with the metagame shifting, I have kind of stopped playing it for a while. i have a tournament coming up soon, and I am considering MonoRed Shop Aggro, opinions?

Thanks!

[LotusHead]

Hey LotusHead, if Staff is only FoW bait you might want to switch to Swords.   From my experience, Staff is best with Clamps otherwise it's just way too random to be any good.  You have the creatures to support Sword and you lack any real type of draw engine besides Jar. 

How has GQ been treating you?  How many turns does it take to become Stripmine?  I found GQ was most effective in Stax decks since an amped Smokestack in addition to GQ is quite potent.

Actually, Staff of Domination has filled the Smokestack spot.  It CAN lock down that single attacker (DSC, Platinum Angel) and my deck uses no Duplicants at the moment.

GQ kills colored mana (Dual Lands) and can mess with todeck tutors, but haveing GQ recursion out (and making it matter) isn't too often.  That doesn't mean it sucks, but is still an experiment (that has been doing well against teammates and MWS randoms.)

I don't own any Sword of Fire/Ice.  I have plenty of proxy space, but I've been dissapointed by it's 5cc investment in the past.

[Thicketman]

I have this problem too.
I usually play 5c Stax, but with the metagame shifting, I have kind of stopped playing it for a while. i have a tournament coming up soon, and I am considering MonoRed Shop Aggro, opinions?

Thanks!

I was trying 5c Stax and it seemed too slow and apathetic and didn't seem to fit as well in the meta. I like the more aggressive approach of MonoRed Aggro. Not sure what your meta is or where the tournament is.


@ Lotushead:

Sword of Fire and Ice rules! protection from red and blue, +2/2, an extra 2 damage, and draw a card! If this card had anymore in it, it would play the game for you. Also, against decks like Ichorid and Flash, it's an easy pull for sideboard cards! Doesn't get MVP, but definitly makes all-star. Razormane Masticore didn't make the cut for me though. That card never won me a game.

[hauntedechos]

I've been underwhelmed with Razormane as well.  The card seems to need a resolved SOFI to get the beats in with out hurting your hand size.

@Islanderboi10:  we would really need to understand your meta, especially me as I've been really toying around with  Shop as of late.  The list that I'm working on right now has a good TSOath match right now and Leyline/vial goblins is going well too.  While Goblins doesn't really mean a whole lot, it really means beating disruptive aggro is online.  I'm currently looking to start testing against Tog as I forsee a rise in it's archtype fairly soon if Oath keeps up with it's attitude.

Haunted.

[islanderboi10]

Well, I live in Washington State, so my meta is pretty diverse.

But, I do know that we have Flash, Storm Combo, TSOath, Shop(R Aggro, Mud, Stax), Drain Tendrils, Tog, and pretty much yea.

I do know my meta is big on Combo/Control.

Thanks!

[hauntedechos]

@ islanderboi:  Non-drain Combo should be decently addressed with the Sphere effects.  Drain combo on the other hand is another basket of Vipers (gee thanks Codi and to think that I interviewed you damnit!!! -kidding mate) and I have no advice aside from upping your Blast effects as they don't run MisD.  Oath can be dealt with via Factories and Spawning pit/ Greater Gargadon.  The mirror is addressed via Trisk and active Welder, depending on what Shop deck you run/up against.  Tog will go the GAT route with E.Flux and possible Rack and Ruin as smennen has proposed.  E.Flux can be dealt with both with blast effects and paying for key spells outright, however it's still not pretty...definatly practice against e.flux exstensively.  Standard issue leyline of the Void and 2 Pithing needle is a good start against Flash/Ichorid.  Another option is Tormods because of  shops Welder recursion, however be mindfull of mana Ichorids ability to play around it and manaless' ability to strip it, if you keep a hand with it turn 0.

Moon effects are a huge consideration right now I think.  I'm sure that people would think that it's a non-issue..include them, and they would likely lean on magus.  I say that Blood Moon is a safer bet, it achives as much and only loses it's body vs. Magus.  On the plus side, with TSOath and Oath in general back in the picture, the body is the liability and thusly I would lean on the enchantment.  In the end, you need to look at lists and meta game each list's strengths and weakness given your metagame.  Build your own meta spicific list and you won't be sorry.  If you are asking for advice then you are like me and NOT an adept with the archtype, and since you are not at home with it, then using the cards that make sence to you and practicing with them will give you a better chance I think.

Haunted.

[islanderboi10]

Thanks for the advice. I believe that some moon effect should be in the deck. I still really like the Magus, because its only bad against Oath.  But, then again, if you can drop it before they drop an oath, then the match up swings hugely in your favor, right?

They dont run basic forests.


But anyways, does anyone think that I can get a starter list or a link to one?

thanks a lot for the help, Haunted.

[Zelow]

what is the best solution for my red shop aggro with a match up against oath.

[Thicketman]

what is the best solution for my red shop aggro with a match up against oath.
[/quote

Greater Gargadons and Jester's Cap

That's weird. My reply got stuck inside the purple box somehow and I can't edit it out.

[hauntedechos]

Hello Shoppers, today we will be having a blue light special on Oath matchups.....


Ok seriously though, the Oath matchup is really getting almost panic level consideration by many people.   If you traditionally have never given an Oath match up much thought, you should be seeing enough results to change your mind.  I have a good friend of mine that built SSSOath -going back a ways- as a cheap proxy deck and good alternative to playing Fish like myself.  The match up wasn't so bad then really, but now that TSOath is going around...

Here's the rub:  TSOath has many ways of dropping it's bomb, Tidespout.  In addition to that, the threat of a fast recoup from wasted efforts, is terribly fast.  So how does that translate into general terms?  Early game, you naturally want to keep oath off the table, or have a way of removing it if it resolves.  You will attempt to handle Orchard with equal effort, via wastelands and Stripmine - if you are playing a deck that has them that is.  Mid game is where things can get tricky, they will either draw into Krosan reclamation, or yawgs will, or research a RFG card -Oath.  The shop players hope is that we have dropped enough spheres to keep them at bay, this holds true at pretty much any point in the game.  Late game you've either won or lost by this point really.  If your threats are holding then you are beating with whatever your body of choice is, if not then you are putting the sideboard cards back to the....sideboard (think:  allow myself to introduce....myself).

On Magus vs. Blood Moon:  for this match I would have to say that you want Blood Moon.  If Oath is on the table, then a magus is a dead card...think about it.  They run full power and only have to drop a Moxen to bounce your Magus...and blow up in your face.  Even if Chalice for 0 is in play, they can play the moxen to have Tidespouts effect trigger, even though the spell is countered.  The real key here is to keep bodies off the board untill you have them either locked out, or completly neuter the ability for them to play ANYTHING, not just from resolving, keep them from PLAYING anything.

On sideboard cards:  There are a few that you can select from.  Greater Gargadon is one that I belive to be very strong.  It stays outside of the game state where Oath cannot touch it.  The deal is you have to be playing  shop to use it.  Jesters Cap is another one that players are looking at and certainly it has attractive qualities, however positioning yourself into recurring Cap is tricky.  Remember that bodies on the field make Oath player happy and do not underestimate the decks ability to pull a fast combo to put Tidespout into play.  RFG is a zone that they have access to vis Research and Development.  Eon Hub, at a casting cost of  is certainly not the end of the world, however I like to have garunteed ability to drop my hate turn one.  While the effects of this zinger is obvious, the effect of having it countered on you is a time walk for them as you will have probly blown all your mana on it, unless you are the MUD player.  MUD has a much better time with this cads casting cost due to it's obscene amount of mana sources.  The card I choose, is spawning pit.  I belive that spawning pit is more versatile than eon Hub and Greater Gargadon in that you can have it build you an army for a lethal swing in real time.  It does performs the same actions of interest that Gargadon does, except, when that last counter is removed, you don't have a liability dropping in.  Yes the body is a clock...against most decks, not so much here -think about it.  This match up is all about them resolving Oath.  Once that is done, they have us somewhat trapped by our own deck don't they? (that was hypothetical, no one needs to answer)  If your hate card is going to eventually drop a body, then when Oath triggers, they have a chance.  Certainly by the time that many counters are removed, you should have a silly amount of Spheres on the table.  Back to spawning pit now, you don't have that worry and you gain the virtual advantage of a single leathal swing via tokens, which can be saced to the pit as well.  The problem is that the card is in play, which gives them options against it.  I personally think that having 1 or 2 pyroblasts in addition to the 4 REB main is a solid consideration for the Tidespouts that do squeek through even the best laid plans (didn't someone famous speak on the best laid plans of man...)

I've been playing extensivly against TSOath and it's a pretty grim battle.  The deck just thrives in an aggro saturated meta, and that is what we are in.  Combo would be a great choice here but our Shop decks really keep it down to playing Drain Tendrils and that is a deck outside of my proxy range.  As a final though on  Shop vs. TSOath  I run a mana base that is unconventional in that it houses both the Waste and Factory base, the only thing I've had to offset that fact by, was a reduced numbe of bodies.  It hasn't bothered me as the size of the bodies are that which you don't need a silly number of them to win.  The second thing about it is, I look to Factories to be bodies all the same, and in the Oath matchup, they are worth thier weight in whatever thing on this earth you hold dear.  I've won games on the back of a Factory and a Jitte with mana enough to work it.

Anyways Shoppers, untill next time, keep communicating and even post testing results if you have some.  I belive that is the way we are going to sove the Oath puzzle.

Haunted.

[sorcutt]

Great post Haunted.  I've really had some positive results with in my testing Factory/Gargadon against Oath.  I keep the swords and even board 1/2 Jittes in too.  Equiping a sword/jitte is to a Factory (with Don out) is a really solid plan.  It gives you a fast clock and it's especially nice to have a beater that is Shattering Spree proof.  If you can get the Don/Factory going you're usually all set in the match and your a decent favorite.  The bigger problem is Tidespout Blue.  That deck rolls most everything outside of Jester's Cap/Uba Mask.  You're silly if you think that REB will win this match with the redunculous ammount of counters they have.  Also, in both matches, Show and Tell will make you run home to mama.

[hauntedechos]

@ sorcutt:  that's why God gave Shop players Duplicant.

[Thicketman]

@ sorcutt:  that's why God gave Shop players Duplicant.

You can say that again!

[hauntedechos]

@Thicketman:  That's why.....  j/k.


In concerns to the Tyrant match.  I haven't tested it as of yet (mainly because I don't know anyone that plays or wants to play it), however certainly I feel games 2-3 you want 4 Duplicant.  I'm not saying that Duplicant resolving is going to put the game on auto pilot, it's just a knee jerk reaction to the deck.  In all honesty, I think that the right way to observe Tyrant would be as a modern day Morphling.  He belongs in a control shell, or at least a deck that can resolve him quick and then have enough gas to control the board for 4 swings (I should have just said TSOath heh).  The HUGE difference between Morphling and Tyrant is the casting cost of course.  I think that there would be a huge uprise in control decks if the casting cost was on par.

Ok I've derailed my own thread here haven't I.  Let's get back on track here:  As far as I can see, you really need to neuter the draw of the deck and have a Duplicant in hand as soon as possible, which requires mulligans or lucky opening hands.  I just don't see much else we can do against that, save for resistors.

Haunted.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

The meta seems to be moving more and more towards Tyrant Oath and Flash Combo.  These are really bad matchups for Red aggro decks.  Pithing Needle, Damping Matrix, Eon Hub, and Greater Gargadon are only half answers, IMO.  Things seem to be morphing into a very combo-control heavy environment.  Anyone else have any ideas?

Peace,

-Troy

[Thicketman]

Heya,

The meta seems to be moving more and more towards Tyrant Oath and Flash Combo.  These are really bad matchups for Red aggro decks.  Pithing Needle, Damping Matrix, Eon Hub, and Greater Gargadon are only half answers, IMO.  Things seem to be morphing into a very combo-control heavy environment.  Anyone else have any ideas?

Peace,

-Troy

I was thinking about switching to MUD, but remembering the TSOath heavy meta, I realized that Mono Red is our only hope. The greater gargadons, red elemental blasts, pyroblasts, and jester's caps are the best we can do unless we switched to 5 color stax, but then we would be crippling ourselves everywhere else.

Get your locks on them quick and get a gargadon. Maybe beat them down with a factory until the gargadon comes in and finishes the job.

That's my best suggestion. I myself am torn, but I think I have to hold my ground on the mono red for now.

[Red Irish]

Oath: My 5 Cents

I don't think that Gargadon is an answer to Oath. What do we achieve? Even assuming that we are running Mishra's Factory, I don't think we will be able to reduce the Oath Player's life to a sufficient extent before the Gargadon comes into play. Gargadon seems to buy time without providing a definitive solution.

I also dislike Duplicant in the sideboard: in my experience, Oath players side in Simic Skyswallower against our decks, thereby rendering Duplicant and Red Elemental Blast entirely useless.

Jester's Cap costs a lot, but, assumming we can get it into play quick enough, it will single-handedly win the game.

In these Oath-infested waters I think that we should probably run at least 2 Factories in the main and dedicate 5 slots in the board as follows:

2 Jester's Cap + 3 Spawning Pit

Cheers

 

[Thicketman]

Gargadon is better than spawning pit and I'll tell you why. It can't be targetted while it's suspended and when it unsuspends, it has haste.

[Red Irish]

Gargadon is better than spawning pit and I'll tell you why. It can't be targetted while it's suspended and when it unsuspends, it has haste.

I beg to differ: once Gargadon enters play, providing it isn't countered, it swings, you pass the turn, you loose. Moreover, you don't always find the red mana in the initial turns.

[Thicketman]

i'm switching to MUD for next tournament anyway. though I like the red sideboard, i've grown to like the MUD mainboard better.

[sorcutt]

Factory + SOFI/Jitte and a Gargadon = win vs oath.  As long as you can swing a couple of times with the factory you'll win for sure once the Gargadon come out.  Remember that it has haste when it comes into play from suspension.