TheManaDrain.com
January 25, 2020, 05:12:35 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: The Paint Shop (Painter´s Servant Combo)  (Read 17696 times)
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2008, 04:38:51 am »

Quote
Manabase:
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Volcanic island
2x Underground sea

Five fetches to get four lands?
Logged

Marske
Mindsculptor
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1209

Go beyond Synergy and enter Poetry

marius.vanzundert@live.nl marske1984
View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2008, 04:43:12 am »

Now you mention it it's a bit overkill I must have overlooked this fact (first I was running 2 more volcanic islands.) when i was posting this list. I think running 2 more volcanic islands and dropping 2 flooded strands seems better.

I don't think dropping the fetches all together is a good idea

« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 04:46:35 am by marske » Logged

Riding a polka-powered zombie T-Rex into a necromancer family reunion in the middle of an evil ghost hurricane.

"Meandeckers act like they forgot about Dredge." - Matt Elias

Quote
The Atog Lord: I'm not an Atog because I'm GOOD with machines Wink
Red Irish
Basic User
**
Posts: 67



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2008, 05:35:37 am »

Hi:

 
Quote from: Red Irish
Hi all:

This is untested and even assuming that we can improve it,  I'm not sure it would work or prove better than alternative builds. In any event, it can serve as a basis for discussion:
I Would start by improving this list with removing 1 of the 2 memory jar's you got in your list Wink (it's kinda restricted)


Sorry about that.

Strike one Jar and a triskelion and add Wheel of Fourtune and a Scepter (for example). The list is awful and I'm only really interested in provoking debate on the feasability of including Painter in a mono  {R} build.

Cheers
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 05:59:54 am by Red Irish » Logged
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 06:21:47 am »

Hi:

 
Quote from: Red Irish
Hi all:

This is untested and even assuming that we can improve it,  I'm not sure it would work or prove better than alternative builds. In any event, it can serve as a basis for discussion:
I Would start by improving this list with removing 1 of the 2 memory jar's you got in your list Wink (it's kinda restricted)


Sorry about that.

Strike one Jar and a triskelion and add Wheel of Fourtune and a Scepter (for example). The list is awful and I'm only really interested in provoking debate on the feasability of including Painter in a mono  {R} build.

Cheers

Well... start a separate thread for that.  It's a separate idea, so pursue it Smile

Peace,

-Troy
Logged

Mith
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 206



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2008, 12:09:13 pm »

I still get the feeling that this combo could fit better into a "slaver" model, running enough blue for drains and transmute artifact in addition to trinket. Having so many blasts seems superfluous in that they are dependent upon Servant being in play. Control the board, then play your combo and win. Why make this into a straight-up combo deck? While a mono-red deck would be nice...shops aren't the way to go in the current meta.

With enough fetch/tutoring effect as well as welders, you would only need to dedicate two cards to the win condition...and the rest can be dedicated to denial and protection.
Logged

"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what's right."
                                             -Salvor Hardin
MMD
Basic User
**
Posts: 23



View Profile
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2008, 07:16:31 am »

Due to time reasons I started to focus on the Nought build and will modify the other two builds later on.

This is what I will play this Sunday:

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Painter’s Servant

1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Sensei Divining Top
1 Grindstone
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth´s Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Bitter Ordeal
3 Duress
3 Shattering Spree
2 Viashino Heretic
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod´s Crypt

I have not really tested a lot (less than 20 matches) so most of the changes/decisions came from my personal metagame prediction, experiences and a lot of goldfishing.

Mainboard explanations:

I was always fetching/searching for red sources and the Sol Ring felt not very strong in this deck as it is only useful with the combo itself and the Trinket Mages.  I don’t want to go down to 22 ½ mana sources with the Lotus Petal, therefore:

- 1 Sol Ring
- 1 Island (I hope that I´ll not regret this)
+ 1 Badlands
+ 1 Bloodstained Mire (red source/Bitter Ordeal)

Furthermore I wanted to have a CotV 1 insurance, so I added:

+ Engineered Explosives

which can also be handy in other situations (mana denial, Oath of Druids, other creatures…) Unfortunately I didn’t found room for it, so I´ll play 61 cards  Sad

These are candidates to cut from the main deck but I am still undecided:

Dark Confidant – You don’t need a 2nd one but 1-2 turn Confidant is strong in many matchups
Pyro/REB – weak in some matchups but I think 6 Blasts is the right number
Stifle – situational / matchup dependent card but nevertheless backbone of the strategy (mana denial/Nought)
Off Colour Mox – see Dark Confidant, although not strong with all the 1 mana spells I don’t want to go down to 22 mana sources

Sideboard explanations:

Bitter Ordeal - is a metagame decision in the same way as Jester’s Cap is strong at the moment. Many Tier 1 decks only play 2-3 win options. A deck with 4 Waste effects, 6 Fetchlands, a Lotus (+3 Trinket Mages is made for this card. It is not very difficult to storm for 2-3 with it. Resolving this should be “Game Over” for Oath, Flash and Storm decks. I´ll let you know how many players need to read the card when I announce it  Very Happy I play this over Leyline/Crypt as there is no Dredge in my Meta.

Duress – In the initial concept I had the remaining Blasts in this slot but I was always anxious for non-blue bombs like Oath of Druids or Yawgmoth´s Will. Due to space/efficiency reasons I will side out the Painter/Grindstone combo, so Blasts will only target blue spells after boarding anyway.

Shattering Spree – Best Anti-Workshop card if you have enough red sources

Viashino Heretic – I wanted to have Artifact removal with casting cost >1 due to CotV (yes I know the ruling of replicate but you don´t have unlimited red sources and trading 1:1 is not good enough). Rack and Ruin can also be used but I choose Heretic because of Thorn of Amethyst.

Tormod´s Crypt –against decks which heavily rely on the graveyard, but this should be self-explanatory

Pithing Needle – mostly because of Goblin Welder, but certainly also other possible targets like Basar, Salvager or whatever

Engineered Explosives – “all-rounder” and 15st slot…

This list nearly ignores Hate/Goblin decks, but this is my metagame decision. I´ll try to race them with Nought or the combo itself in case I will get paired against them. With 2x Explosives, Crypt and Needle I have a minimal disruption in case there is a Dredge deck on Sunday, but I hope that I will not get paired against it…

I will try to make notes and write a tournament report as I think everyone is interested how Painter`s Servant performs and what is the most suitable hull for it.

Stay tuned…

Logged
mtg247
Basic User
**
Posts: 24


View Profile Email
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2008, 11:01:08 pm »

I don't like the force's. I really feel like duress/thoughtsieze are the way to go in this deck. The whole prison concept seems like it would be very good too, but I haven't done any testing with this whatsoever.

How have the force's been working out though? I'm wondering if your having problems having another blue card to pitch when you really need it.

No matter what, for a combo deck to be effective, you want the whole tutor package in it so you can get your missing pieces. I wouldn't cut duress's period. Simulacrum is way to slow if your not holding your opponent back. Trike is also way too slow in a build like this. He can be efficient in a deck running metalworker, but your not going to want to waste your time tapping out for something that costs six mana when it doesn't win you the game.

And about grindstone, I think it's a three of at min. because it's your win condition essentially.
Logged
Carthain
Basic User
**
Posts: 20


5153733
View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2008, 12:49:54 pm »

I agree with the first statement, although there is another option other than going with hate/control cards. You can combine this two card combo with other two card combos in one MUD archetype, so that you maximize the chances of hitting a game ending combo within the first two turns. Consider:

4x Time Vault
4x Rings of Brighthearth
3x Basalt Monolith
4x Metalworker
4x Staff of Domination
4x Painter
4x Grindstone

I'm confused -- what are the monoliths for?  Can anyone fill me in?

Edit: Nevermind -- it's been a while since I looked at that card.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 12:54:19 pm by Carthain » Logged

"Eschew Obfuscation."
Matt Locke
Thicketman
Basic User
**
Posts: 100



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2008, 01:31:39 pm »

Gaea's Blessing will be in my sideboard Very Happy
Logged
credmond
Basic User
**
Posts: 477


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2008, 02:33:57 pm »


Gaea's blessing is strong tech to bring in against this deck. A common misconception is that blessing causes an infinite loop and thereby a draw but what happens is its effect stacks and resolves after grindstone has milled the library and then blessing puts the graveyard back in the library, which effectively shuts down the milling win until you find a way to take blessing out of the library.

Of course the deck can shift to plan B at that point (usually tinker - collossus or blast the way for scarecrow beats), but what's the best way to directly fight blessing?  Can extirpate be used to hit blessing at some  point in the stack of effects to hit the current blessing and any other blessings all at once? Extirpate would be decent against flash and ichorid as well.

Another option of anti-blessing tech would be bitter ordeal which is not bad since bitter ordeal can be used effectively in this deck to stop combo and decks with a small number of win conditions.
Logged
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2008, 02:39:07 pm »

Quote
Of course the deck can shift to plan B at that point (usually tinker - collossus or blast the way for scarecrow beats), but what's the best way to directly fight blessing? 


Extract, Jester's Cap, Stifle, Trickbind, and Leyline of the Void can do the trick.  Smile

Peace,

-Troy
Logged

MMD
Basic User
**
Posts: 23



View Profile
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2008, 03:08:25 am »

I have no time to write a detailed report Also I am not very motivated as I have not Top 8´d mostly because my metagame predictions were completely wrong. I only played against 3 blue decks and none of them loose against Bitter Ordeal (Mirror, Salvager, Null Rod Fish):

Just my 2cents:

- Don’t loose the coin toss against Workshop Decks if they start first it’ll be likely you will loose in three matches as the mana base is too light to fight against their mana denial
- Play one basic Island. I lost against Crucible/Wasteland with Painter/Brainstorm/Grindstone in my hand.
- Don’t side out too many win options against Salvagers. I was facing a lonely Salvager which beat me down for 8 rounds (no other win options for him left due to Bitter Ordeal) as I have sided out the Painter Combo and me drawing only REB/Pyro/Duress and Mana.
- Decks with 4 Confidant+ 4 Swords will outdraw you (UBW Fish)
- It´s hard to loose against other Painter Decks without Confidant/Duress/Bitter Ordeal. In fact this build is already a anti-deck strategy against Merchant Scroll/Gush based Painter decks
- I never lost a match with Confidant in play

Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.242 seconds with 21 queries.