[Deck] The Patriot

[Thicketman]

I have been attracted to fish and have also always been a huge fan of  . I have been trying to incorporate  into a fish deck for quite some time and I feel that I am close, but not quite there. I think that it shows promise as a great deck and also a lot of fun. When testing, I noticed, that without the black for Bob and tutors, the deck drew kind of slow. This is why I added Remora, the top, and ponders. The trinket mages and ninjas help a little, but not enough. I found I was often stalled out. I love how the lightning bolts have been working out: they kill juggernauts, gofys, Bob, and all kinds of other threats as well as finishing the game much to your opponents surprise. I think I am on to something here, but I need some opinions and advice. Thanks for any help anyone has to offer. Here is the list.


  The Patriot

// Lands
    3 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Volcanic Island
    1 Plateau

// Creatures
    1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Aven Mindcensor
    3 Trinket Mage
    1 Gorilla Shaman
    3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
    3 Grim Lavamancer

// Spells
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Mystic Remora
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Ronom Unicorn
SB: 2 Mana Leak
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Energy Flux
SB: 1 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Rack and Ruin
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast

[the boogie man]

this may be a decent place to use painter + reb. reb is good anyway.

[salthecarp]

There are a few different approaches you can take with RWU Fish (America Fish as I call it.) This deck seems to be trying to take all of them. I know I'm not the first to say it, but fish decks are built around consistency and this deck runs a lot of 1 and 2-ofs that Trinket Mage won't find. With a more consistent deck stalling becomes less of an issue and you don't need as much of a draw engine.
My approach was to start with a traditional UW Fish and consider what adding red would do to it. Here is what I came up with.

1) You want to play red 1-drop creatures, namely Mogg Fanatic, Gorilla Shaman and Grim Lavamancer. Mogg Fanatic can be helpful against aggro and can be an effective defensive piece against flash and ichorid. Gorilla Shaman contributes to the mana denial strategy present in so many fish decks and is the answer to what would otherwise be a game-ending Chalice of the Void set at 2 for traditional UW fish.  Grim Lavamancer can turn the tide in the uphill battle against heavier aggro decks like RG Beats or Sui Black. I feel that unless you expect t face  lot of aggro, Grim Lavamancer is the worst choice because keeping the red mana to activate it is a strain on the deck's manabase. I felt like running Lavamancer demanded an unhealthy number of Volcanic Islands and not enough Tundras and basic Islands, and running a single basic Mountain doesn't work well with a mana base built off Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta. In my deck, I chose to focus on mana denial so I went with 4 gorilla shamans, plus Mogg Fanatic in the board for Flash/Ichorid/Goblins/Welders/Dark Confidant. Regardless of which creatures you choose, they will probably be replacing the white 1-drops like Isamaru and Savannah Lions, which may give you a slower clock, meaning you have to play more control and less aggro or make up for it elsewhere, such as with Dreadnought.

2) Red Elemental Blast. I like it is best in the sideboard so it is never a dead card stuck in your hand game 1 and you can often play game 1 without revealing that you are playing red. It's so efficientand good in so many matchups. Beyond the impact it has on your manabase, the only drawback I see to it is that you need to leave mana open to use it.  To make up for that disadvantage, I would typically play about 9-12 other 1-mana instants, including Brainstorm, Ancestral, Stifle and Swords to Plowshares so I would generaly have something to spend it on if I didn't need the REB.

3) Removal. Red brings in good direct damage and artifact removal, most notably Fire/Ice, Lightning Bolt, Rack and Ruin and Shattering Spree. I tried to keep my removal package compact but versatile so i wound up using Merchant Scroll, meaning that Fire/Ice was the obvious choice for me. Lightning Bolt is probably better as a 4-of since the deck may otherwise struggle to get in those last few points of damage. Shattering Spree is only good if you are very dedicated to red and I don't like Rack and Ruin so much as a 4-of because it seems to wind up clogging my hand in the early game and you have nothing to search it out.

In summary, I would recommend focusing on mana denial (more Gorilla Shaman and Wasteland, consider adding Daze,) play more REBs, and focus on consistency: if you're not going to play at least 3 of   a card, you probably need some way to tutor for it.
Thanks for posting and good luck!
Peter

[Thicketman]

Thanks Peter. I was thinking about the mana denial route. In my original creation I had Mogg Fanatics, I will probably go back to those and add more Shamans. What do you think about the Ninjas?

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think going with 4 meddling mages in the sb is a way to go.  they hose a lot of combo and g 2/3 you know what you are facing.  Ninjas are ok, but kinda slow.  Most importantly, if you are running remora (which is a fantastic card in just about any meta), you need 4.  you want to drop them turn 1 (especially on the play) and then just draw a lot of cards or build up a base and set up your hand while your opponent plays draw, land, go.remora is infinitely less good when you play it on turn 3 or 4 and your opponent has dumped all their moxen and played brainstorm/ancestral/etc.

[Thicketman]

Besides the 1 dreadnought, I would like to implement a beater, but I don't care for jotun grunt so much as he can't be used right away since there needs to be cards in the graveyards and if there aren't enough, he goes away. I guess I'll have to test grunt a little more. I was thinking maybe serendib efreets or something. If anyone has better ideas, please fill me in. Also what would I take out for the beater? I would really like to make this deck a viable contender in this metagame. I am trying not to fall back on Deeznoughts.

[GUnit]

Well, if you want the best aggressive weenie, you already know it's goyf. Regardless of whether or not you choose to play green, however, I think your colour choice is fun, but flawed. I just can't see an aggro control deck succeeding without at least 4 (probably more like 6) duress effects... and dark confidant is probably the best creature in magic. I'd suggest UBR or UBW if you don't want to play deez noughts, or even UBRW if you're feeling adventurous.

[Thicketman]

Well, if you want the best aggressive weenie, you already know it's goyf. Regardless of whether or not you choose to play green, however, I think your colour choice is fun, but flawed. I just can't see an aggro control deck succeeding without at least 4 (probably more like 6) duress effects... and dark confidant is probably the best creature in magic. I'd suggest UBR or UBW if you don't want to play deez noughts, or even UBRW if you're feeling adventurous.

I understand the Deez Noughts build is a great deck, but what I am trying to do is make a  Patriot deck and have it be viable. How bad would you feel if you got beat by an patriot deck? That is what I'm trying to do. I am trying to make a silly idea work. 

[salthecarp]

I think that Ninja of the Deep Hours is a little clunky and will wind up facing down blocking creatures too often to be very useful. With a more consistent deck you may find that you need less of a draw engine. Trinket Mage already helps provide card advantage but is less situational. Ninja is at its best when you play a 1-mana creature first turn, but if you only play 4 1-mana creatures not counting Dreadnought, you may have a hard time using ninjutsu. Compounding this, most of the time your first turn play is going to be Stifle or Brainstorm.
Like you, I was originally drawn to this color combination for a Fish deck out of the sheer patriotic novelty of it. However, I stuck with it because I was able to find success with it, finding a build that had a fighting chance against most decks in the format. It's important to consider what you get from each color, how you can make these colors work together, and how to build a mana base that is resistant to color screw without being overly susceptible to Wasteland and Magus of the Moon. I would recommend playing 6 fetchlands, 7 if you aren't expecting a lot of opponents to be packing stifles. I noticed your list has no basic lands, I would recommend at the very least, 1 basic Island. In my list I think I played 2 Islands and 1 Plains. With the extra fetches, you don't need as many dual lands. The other important thing to work on with your deck is the 2 spot on the mana curve. Meddling Mage is still probably the best choice for this slot, he works as an answer to both Oath and Flash, and one of the main reasons to run  in fish. Jotun Grunt and Kataki are also worthwhile contenders for the 2-spot, Kataki especially if your focus is mana denial. While we're talking about white cards worth playing, where is Swords to Plowshares in your list? If you're going to play white,  these cards may serve you well.
People may call you crazy for playing an aggro-control deck without Tarmogoyf or Dark Confidant, but it can work.
-Peter

[the boogie man]

I really do not like the lavamancers or the remora. How are you running only 4 counterspells and remora? I really think that reb covers the slot nicely, as it eats up flash. Gorilla shaman is definitely one of the better choices as far as creatures go, and the new cursecatcher looks awsome.

I still really advocate trying out like 6-7 blasts and the painters servant. That covers the 2 mana slot very nicely. It also shores up on the lack of duress a little bit. Another cool synergy is this and shaman. Since shaman removes moxen and stuff, you can play reb as a vindicate much better when painter comes in. Plus, Painter goes activates ninja pretty well. Ninjas hiding in scarecrows. Thats pretty cool.

Like 3-4 swords to plowshares should be added to the deck if you want to run ninjas, though, just to clear the board. And in a just in case scenario, balance is huge, but you cannot find it reliably.

Grunt is still a great choice. It can come down much earlier than you think, and it messes with the yard.

Counterbalance is another interesting choice, since you run a lot of 1-2 mana cards, trinket mage, and a top. Plus, It's free disruption after the initial 2 blue.

[Hellsing293]

First off, forgive me if I'm kinda newbish on the subject but, you run no basic lands.  I think any early waste effects or non-basic land hosers would completely wreck your mana base.  I know that it really wouldn't work any other way, but I think the vulnerable mana base might present a problem.

[Madpeep]

You could also use the new Augury Adept card from Shadowmoor instead of Ninja/splashing black for Bob.

[the boogie man]

it cost 3 mana, and really isn't that big, and might get chumped. Good sideboard material against slow decks, though. Have you thought about jitte? You certainly run enough creatures, and this makes ninja, cursecatcher, shaman, and painter's servant (sorry) way better. The 1/1's now drop ninja and add -1/-1 counters to the mix, removing possible blockers and making you small creatures huge threats. combined with mana denial, reb (especially with painter's servant(and again)), this makes a very fast clock and consistent card advantage. Not to mention the theme is real cool. Scarecrows with weapons, ninjas with weapons, And scarecrow ninjas.

[CalebD]

First off, forgive me if I'm kinda newbish on the subject but, you run no basic lands.  I think any early waste effects or non-basic land hosers would completely wreck your mana base. 

He does have some waste defense in the form of 4x stifle.

Although my current list is URB, I've messed around w/ URW a bit so I figured I'd weigh in.

I started with 4 lavamancer, then dropped to 3, then 2. Fanatics are looking like a better choice, I'll probably switch to 3 of them.

I like ponder, but I don't think it fits here. You have stifles, brainstorms, and one drops. The one drops immediately effect the board, and the instants are synergistic (if you don't stifle you can brainstorm on their eot). Ponder seems significantly worse in comparison.

Is Remora good against anything? I tested different builds of storm against that MU deck w/ 4 remora's and a buttload of countermagic, but they never did anything for my opponent. Either he'd draw one card for my REB, or I would sit back and sculpt my hand while he tapped himself out every turn. If it isn't good against a decent player with an all-spell deck, what is its effectiveness? It might be good if you ran grunt/goyf/negator(synergistic w/ stifle), so that they're forced into playing spells while under a quick clock.

 I originally tried ninjas w/ cloud of faeries and spellstutter sprite, but it wasn't as consistant or powerful as I would have liked, so I switched to a skullclamp draw engine. It has its good parts and bad, I like the searchability w/ trinket mage and the power level, drawing 2-4 cards per turn is huge. I'm considering adding lightning bolts, I think they'd go well with this type of draw.

I also experimented with null rods to support the mana denial (not w/ clamps, obv) and it worked all right. I also ran simian spirit guides in that build. They helped drop rod turn one, let the REBs act like FOWs, and could swing with the other creatures. Overall, I liked the spirit guides more than the null rods, and am now running mox monkeys instead.