The Richmond Thread

[Troy_Costisick]

Just from a guy in Euro, your gas prices are not that high.
If I understand correct the current price in US is 3 dollar for a gallon.
In Europe that is about 10 Dollar a gallon(don't know if i spelled this correct).
And we drive also for 2 ours to tournaments because there are to few of them.

Just my 2 cents

You're right.  We do have it a little easier when it comes to gas and number of available tournaments in the US.  Gas is actually around $4 a gallon now and the drive from Chicago or Indy to Richmond is just a little over 13 hours.  That puts it a little our of range for the players who live in the American MidWest. If we had the nice mass transit system that Europe does, then it would still be a lengthy trip, but a lot easier to achieve, I think

Peace,

-Troy

[hazard]

Congrats to the winners - I wish I could have been there.

Concerning attendance, gas, etc.

We do have much cheaper gas than our European counterparts so I guess we win:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/

I wonder how the Vintage scene is in Venzuela?

I appreciate Star City holding these tournaments and I am sure they make much more money off the Standard portion than the Vintage folk.  The gas prices are a factor.  To drive 475 miles each way, averaging 25 mpg, paying $4 per gallon, the trip would have cost me around $150 in gas.  Add $60 in entry fees, hotel, food, etc, and you get the point.

I was not able to make this one, but look forward to future ones.  My bias believes Indianapolis to be an excellent midpoint for the Vintage scene.  Columbus, Ohio would also work wonderfully, as exhibited by the attendance at the Legacy Grand Prix gone by.

[HRRNighthawk]

I'd just like to say it was a fun tournament and i'm glad i went.  It was the first time i'd ever played a Vintage touranment, first time i'd ever played a Vintage deck actually, and it was definately a new experience.  Thanks to Ben Carp for being the nicest player i met there, played him in the 3rd round on day 1, and i didn't realize who he was at the time but now i know who i was playing against lol.  A couple of friends were complaining about Illusionary Mask later on...guess i wasn't the only one to get hit by 12/12s . 

I was just disappointed that the turnout wasn't better for both touranments.  Was that good turnout for a Vintage tournament?  We had better turnout for type 2 at the Charlotte 5k than we did in Richmond, and i'm wondering if it was just a location problem?  I'd never been to Richmond, but i wasn't impressed with it at all.  I'm all for putting it in the mid-west next time, even tho its an even farther drive for me in NC.  Anything that gets the # of players up. 

Overall, a refreshing format from Standard/Extended.  I have been bored with those formats for a year, and this was fun (despite finishing 3-3 after a 3-0 start lol).

[Madpeep]

Scott Hughes, Marc Tuttle, Stefan Ellsworth, and myself are representing New England.

Well at least Ray and Stefan are relevant.  GO TEAM IAMTOOLMAN!

Wow, that's pretty harsh Justin. 
Richmond was a blast, it's a shame you missed it.  How was your weekend under probation?

[Xman]

Wish I could have been there.  But correct me if I am wrong, but day 1 was about the same as previous SCG at Richmond tournaments?  Why was Day 2 attendance so low?  there was a total of 143 people for the 2 days?

I think it is going to be interesting to see the exact meta breakdown once SCG posts the lists.  Should be good to see which way the format is heading.  8 Duress GAT is brutal and might be the smart play in a Flash/Painter heavy meta.

[Almighty]

  Why was Day 2 attendance so low?

Bear in mind it was on Mother's day weekend. I'm sure this was relevant for more than a few people.

[coyoteuglly]

I am sure SCG is more then willing to run the actual tournaments at a loss.  I am pretty sure the majority have been.  Where they actually make money is from buying cards and the putting them on the website for resale.  It is similar to GenCon where most of the booths actually operate at a loss.  But make it all back later by getting there name out there.

[Thicketman]

  Why was Day 2 attendance so low?

Bear in mind it was on Mother's day weekend. I'm sure this was relevant for more than a few people.

Quoted for emphasis

[Ufactor]

Oh, and SCG didn't even cover the Chicago event with NO type 2 going on the same day...  I'm starting to think they don't care about the event anymore. 

Honestly I think it has more to do with the size of the vintage community. Everyone knows everyone and pretty much everything gets talked about on here. Covering it officially really seems like its just a waste of money on SCGs part.  Its hard enough to consistently make money on power 9 series with gas prices the way they are.  Look at how many times attendance has been like 50.

Between tourney reports and coverage, most everything gets said, or enough that wasting money on coverage isnt worth it because the profit margin is tight enough as it is.

This creates a really bad funnel, as lower attandance means less (or no) event coverage.  Less publicity means lower attandance, and we go further on down the spiral.  People aren't going to get excited about an event when SCG can't be bothered to hype their own shizz.  What you're saying makes complete sense, but good for business=bad for the community.

[Mantis]

Just from a guy in Euro, your gas prices are not that high.
If I understand correct the current price in US is 3 dollar for a gallon.
In Europe that is about 10 Dollar a gallon(don't know if i spelled this correct).
And we drive also for 2 ours to tournaments because there are to few of them.

Just my 2 cents

But 1 euro is like 5$ anyway, so we shouldn't complain.

[Drummer79]

If you actually look at the cost of gas in US vs our average salary and compare it to Europe, it's not even close.  We pay A LOT more on gas percentage wise when you put it in to full perspective

[Zombie Shakespeare]

I was in Canada over the weekend and gas up there was $1.22/liter which works out to roughly $4.62/gallon Canadian. With the exchange rate factored in that's about $4.71/gallon USD.

[lizzish]

I was kidnapped by Kowal and brought to this event, and am now in conundrums. Damn this game for being so fun, damn the format for being even MORE fun, and damn the community for being so awesome. <3!

You people make me want to play magic again.

[Triple_S]

sigh, I downloaded MWS again b/c of this weekend.

[JewLightning]

Does anyone have the exact list that Brassman played of MSPaint? I would really love to do some testing with the deck because there is a tournament in CO soon and I need to know if it is a good choice or if it isn't at least a way to beat it.

Brennen

[vartemis]

does anyone else find it odd that starcity has infinite coverage of the standard event but is more or less ignoring the fact that they had any vintage going on? why the snub?

Because they have one coverage guy (evan erwin) and it makes infinitely more sense to have him cover the format he knows and is vastly more popular?

I also find it funny that Painter's Servant shot up from $1 to $7 thanks to this tourney.

j

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Top 8 Decklists from both days have been posted.

Day 1

Day 2

[moxpearl]

I saw that too.  Grindstones are up to $20.  My guess is Legacy is contributing to the demand too...hard to believe Vintage would do that alone.

Congrats to the winners, and kudos to SCG for supporting our format with unbelievable payouts.   Special congrats to Alex Bertoncini who pulls in $7000 for winning both Standard tournaments.  Wow.

[ashiXIII]

I saw that too.  Grindstones are up to $20.  My guess is Legacy is contributing to the demand too...hard to believe Vintage would do that alone.

Congrats to the winners, and kudos to SCG for supporting our format with unbelievable payouts.   Special congrats to Alex Bertoncini who pulls in $7000 for winning both Standard tournaments.  Wow.

He got a lot less than that. He got $2000 for the 5k one, and I'd guess about $800 for the 2k one. Still good, though.

[vartemis]

I saw that too.  Grindstones are up to $20.  My guess is Legacy is contributing to the demand too...hard to believe Vintage would do that alone.

Congrats to the winners, and kudos to SCG for supporting our format with unbelievable payouts.   Special congrats to Alex Bertoncini who pulls in $7000 for winning both Standard tournaments.  Wow.

I have noticed this cycle with all of SCG's tournaments and the impact on their singles sales.  Their tournaments are excellent business investments.  Although they may lose money money on the prizes they give out, they make a killing on creating a hype on certain decks and adjusting their prices accordingly.  MSPaint busts out at this tournament, and the Servants and Grindstones are jacked up.  Even ebay hasn't adjusted yet.

j

[Smmenen]

Not only were the finals of both days two Gush-Bond decks, but Gush-Bond pretty much dominated the top 8s, making half of the top 8 in day one and 5 of 8 in day two.   

[vartemis]

Not only were the finals of both days two Gush-Bond decks, but Gush-Bond pretty much dominated the top 8s, making half of the top 8 in day one and 5 of 8 in day two.   

I can't wait for the outpouring demand to rerestrict gush while Flash quietly slinks out of the crosshairs. lol

j

[moxpearl]

Top 8 Decklists from both days have been posted.

Day 1

Day 2

Could someone explain the Greater Gargadons and Ingot Chews in the Painter's Decks' sideboards?  Are the Greater Gargadons some tech with Fastbond and Yawgmoth's Will?  I presume the Ignots were for chalice at 1, but curious how successful those were vs. other options.

[SadPanda]

Top 8 Decklists from both days have been posted.

Day 1

Day 2

Could someone explain the Greater Gargadons and Ingot Chews in the Painter's Decks' sideboards?  Are the Greater Gargadons some tech with Fastbond and Yawgmoth's Will?  I presume the Ignots were for chalice at 1, but curious how successful those were vs. other options.

The Greater Gargadons sacrifice spirit tokens.

[Moxlotus]

Not only were the finals of both days two Gush-Bond decks, but Gush-Bond pretty much dominated the top 8s, making half of the top 8 in day one and 5 of 8 in day two.   

I can't wait for the outpouring demand to rerestrict gush while Flash quietly slinks out of the crosshairs. lol

j

It will be Scroll, not Gush that will be getting the calls.

[MadAsAHatter]

Top 8 Decklists from both days have been posted.

Day 1

Day 2

Could someone explain the Greater Gargadons and Ingot Chews in the Painter's Decks' sideboards?  Are the Greater Gargadons some tech with Fastbond and Yawgmoth's Will?  I presume the Ignots were for chalice at 1, but curious how successful those were vs. other options.

Ingot Chewers demolish chalice at 1, but I dont think any of us played against shops day 1.  Since I wasn't there for day 2 I can't say if they helped or not,  I did however use it to great effect smacking pithing needles all day.  The Gargadon was a last minute addition because its an uncounterable way to sacrifice spirit tokens from Orchards, but it also has the hillarious play of "Time Walk, sac my lands smack for 9, walk turn, smack for 9."  Though I'm pretty sure it never actually got used like that.  When I played it against oath I made some glaring play mistakes, but he pretty much just waited the turns necessary and countered it to win.  But I'm still curious whether I could have won if i played it correctly though.

[T00L]

Just incase you were wondering ingot chewer was insane against MUD when I played against Jerry Yang in the top 8 of day 2.

You know what I haven't had in a while? BIG LEAGUE CHEW

[Kowal]

In the quarterfinals t00l blew up something of Jerry Yang's with the Ingot Chewer.  I don't think it was a chalice though.


Here's my QnD summary of the tournament:

Day One:

Round One: t00l with Mario Paint (italian drains!)
Game one I find my combo pieces pretty easily and he draws meh.
Game two he tries to combo me out and I hit Gaea's Blessing.  I win shortly thereafter.

Round Two:  Kevin Wall of Off the Wall Games fame with Bomberman
ID, we drove up together.

Round Three:  a gentleman whose name I don't remember playing U/B Aggro Control
Game one I Duress him, and take Brainstorm.  I play Oath, he dazes.  I play another Oath, and promptly win.
Game two I lead with orchard mox oath, and that's all she wrote.

Round Four:  Mark Trogdon with Remora Painter
Game one I overpower him with two tidespouts and a pair of moxes.
Game two he gets Remora and Library in the same hand.
Game three I extirpate his grindstones with a pretty solid grip, but I can't kill him before time is called.

Round Five:  another gentleman whose name I can't remember playing GAT
Game one is really close, and if I remember correctly he even manages to Will but he can't generate enough storm to kill me and he doesn't have a dryad on the board.  I think I'm in okay shape, but the game's over when I gush in to Duress and Will.
Game two I duress him a few times and I think I extirpate something as well.  He's holding Will and Tendrils at one point, but I keep taking his gas so he can't do too much about it.  I draw something busted (fastbond I think) and proceed to draw absolute insanity.

Round Six:  one further gentleman whose name I can't remember playing Red Aggro/Shop
Game one I duress and he's holding Strip, Sol Ring, 2Sphere, 2Sphere, Welder, Shaman, and something else, Crucible maybe.  I take Sol Ring, and he rips Shop.  My hand does nothing but generate storm and in like twenty turns I can't find a tutor or an Oath.
Game two I keep myself afloat with Ancient Grudge and lucky Force of Will topdecks to stop Magus of the Moon, but again I don't draw any oaths and I die promptly.

Round Seven:  the final gentleman from day one I can't remember the name of playing Deez Noughts
Game one is pretty boring as I duress him, see creatures, and have a hand with Oath in it.
Game two is much of the same.  I think he stifled an Oath activation instead of playing a Dreadnought with the stifle, buying himself one extra turn.

I finish day one at 4-1-2, putting me in 14th place.

Day two:

Round One:  GushTog
Game one, if I recall correctly, we duressed the crap out of eachother.  I remember at one point he makes a very good call with Intuition, breaking up his selection of cards to dodge the Extirpate in my hand.  I do manage to extirpate his Accumulated Knowledges, and eventually I manage to yawgmoth's will him out.
Game two he gets ahead pretty quickly and I'm playing some serious catch up.  Eventually he brain freezes me for a lethal amount, but he doesn't manage his mana quite right and is forced to pass the turn with a Drain in hand that he can't cast.  I flashback Krosan Rec for Will and combo him out.

Round Two:  Suicide Black
Game one he plays a turn one Negator, which I consider letting resolve but decline because I don't have an Oath in my grip yet.  Sure enough, the turn after I force it I draw Oath.  I play it and the game basically ends on the spot.
Game two he opens with Duress I think, and I wind up getting some basics and eventually tutor chaining for the Oath to win.

Round Three:  Jeremiah Rudolph with some pile that looks like Workshop Slaver had sex with a Type Four stack
Game one I fantasize about Mana Draining Panoptic Mirror while I outdraw him 2:1 with Gush.
Game two I pick his hand apart, Extirpate his red blasts, and red blast his Tinker.  Oath goes the distance.

Round Four:  Stephen Menendian with GAT
Game one he duresses me and I have a pretty weak hand.  I try to recover with a desperate tutor for Ancestral but he has the Misdirection.  I do randomly find an Oath and get it to stick, which takes him like 20 turns to answer.  Unfortunately I draw nothing in those twenty turns and he draws some pretty good shit, so all I can do is wait and hope he bones himself on Fastbond.  He gets himself to 1, Empties, and passes the turn tapped out.  I don't win on my turn.
Game two I keep a hand light on gas but with a respectable mix of mana.  I ponder and pass, he leads with Jet, Duress, Sea, Ancestral.  I ponder again.  He plays fastbond and I lose.

Round Five:  Ray Robillard with Staxless Stax
Game one he opens with a chalice 2, but my hand is all 0, 1, and 5 cc spells.  It takes me like a zillion turns but eventually I hardcast gushes in to Chain of Vapor, bounce his Chalice, and he says "finally I can scoop!"
Game two he mulls to 4, and I fan open seven cards that win turn one.

Round Six:  Fuckin' Lou with Ichorid
We draw in.

Top Eight:  Nick Coss with Rev Flash
Game one he resolves Ancestral and when I duress him I see more blue cards than I run in my deck.  I manage to stop his combo with an Extirpate, but I can't find gas quickly enough to beat his army of spirit tokens, Carrion Feeder, and Mogg Fanatic.
Game two I open Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, REB, Orchard, Ruby, Leyline of the Void, and Force of Will.  I drop the Leyline, the orchard, and the mox, and pass figuring without gas I should hold off on injuring myself and giving him men to hit me with.  I pay the price as he leads with Tropical Island, Lotus Petal, Rev Silence, Flash (with Force backup pitching Brainstorm) for the Hulk.  He shows me his topdeck for the turn, which was Ancestral Recall.  Um, right.

I finish 4-1-1 in the swiss and promptly lose in the top eight.




This tournament was really inspiring for me.  On both days the top eight was loaded with extremely solid players, and the top of the field was incredibly diverse.  On day two as an example, we had

Ichorid
GAT
Oath
Painter
Flash
2x Gush Combo
MUD

Sure, this top eight had 20 Gushes, but it also had 24 Brainstorms and 24 Force of Wills.

I made a controversial statement in the car on the ride home, that the best card in the format wasn't Ancestral Recall or Yawgmoth's Will but Fastbond.  I can react to my opponent having Ancestral or Will in his hand, but if he has Fastbond and I can't win a turn 0 counterwar, my chances to win are incredibly small regardless of what I'm playing.

I think the format is actually fairly healthy right now.  However, I do think Fastbond lends itself to making the format less healthy than it could be.

[Phele]

Props to Dustin Buckingham, who proved, that Dark Illusions can compete and place well even at a big tournament.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

This just in: Gush + Fastbond = synergy!