[Deck] ICBM Oath for Vintage 2.0

[Tha Gunslinga]

After reading threw everything I think that the arguments that AngryPheldagrif made for Platinum Angel make the most sense. Sure people will have removal, but since the deck is running Force, Drain and Seize/Duress wouldn't you be able to protect Platz? I am sure that if everyone is on the Tyrant bandwagon that there must be a reason. I would like a deeper explanation.

Platinum dies to Goblin Welder, killing your Slaver matchup.  It also bites it to Rebuild and Hurkyl's Recall, cards that Long and Drain Tendrils will bring in against Chalice.  I have never been able to make Platinum Angel work, and I strongly advise against it.

[Wise]

@ hvndr3d y34r h3x

I like plats, I found he can definitely be a game winner, obv I wouldn't be siding him in against belcher, or decks with welder, but I like the idea of them having to deal with my answer before they can win, plus I find that adding tinker helps to power it out faster which can be crucial in a combo match up where my opponent can win any turn, this is the way I look at it

(with Plat) Tinker Platinum angel into play - combo has to find and resolve a bounce spell before it can win
(with out Plat) Combo can freely go off (baring normal disruption)

(with Plat) Oath plat into play, - my opponent has to bounce plat that turn to win, second turn I oath tyrant and start bouncing
(with out Plat) Oath up tyrant - Attempt to bounce enough permanents to stop my opponent from comboing out

while yes it does seem "week" it find it can definitely be that 1 extra thing to "worry" about, and I do much like the comfort of "OK now you cant win until you deal with my stuff first"  and we all know combo does not play well with others, but as a critical thinker I do agree that it can be construed as weak, what do you recommend/suggest as a replacement?


@ Tha Gunslinga

I agree his uses are narrow(its been something I have debated and need more testing on) and that a lot of decks are packing artifact bounce, what else would you suggest as a replacement? also what is my SB plan against Long and DT , the main deck is already geared to beating it so the SB seems week on that front, I have considered running 2x null rod in its place but they dont "win" games cant beat, and get bounced in the same manner Plat would with Rebuild/Hurks recall, testing is needed.

@ smbdy_182

I think 3 tyrants are overkill with blessing in the deck, a Tidespout is a dead draw, actually its worse then a dead draw, is uses in your hand are limited to ramping up to 8 mana and cast it or pitch it to FOW, I would rather run -1 Tidespout +1 Lat-Nams Legacy, would much rather have an extra answer if a Tidespout is in my hand, and its not a bad draw, cycles 2 cards for 2 cards as oppose to the 3rd tidespout which well sits in your hand, About DSC while 11/11 is a force to deal with that does not mean he is good, example

WITH DSC

T1: Oath > Darksteel Colossus > pass the turn
T2: Swing for 11 > pass the turn
T3: Swing for 11 > Win

T1: Oath > Darksteel Colossus > pass the turn
T2: Oath > Tidespout Tyrant > Bounce, > Swing for 11 > Pass the turn
T3: Bounce > Swing for 16 > win

T1: Oath > Tidespout Tyrant > Bounce > Pass the turn
T2: Oath > Darksteel Colossus > Bounce > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn
T3: Bounce > Swing for 16 > win

WITHOUT DSC

T1: Oath > Tidespout Tyrant > Bounce > Pass the turn
T2: Bounce > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn
T3: Bounce > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn
T4: Bounce > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn
T5: Bounce > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn


T1: Oath > Tidespout Tyrant > Bounce > Pass the turn
T2: Oath > Tidespout Tyrant > Bounce, Bounce(if you have 2x 0cc perms bounce all their permanents > Swing for 5 > Pass the turn (essentially win as they have 0 perms)
T3: Bounce, Bounce > Swing for 10 > Pass the turn
T4: Bounce, Bounce > Swing for 10 > win


Now while DSC can help you "win" earlyer, if bounced he is virtually unplayable, cannot pitch to FOW, not to mention I would NOT want to be in a position to Oath Needed a Tidespout to win and turning up a DSC so while it can win random games sometimes, it can also loose you random games sometimes, I would rather sacrifice chance for consistency, let me know how it plays out in testing, I very likely I could be wrong

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@ hvndr3d y34r h3x

I like plats, I found he can definitely be a game winner, obv I wouldn't be siding him in against belcher, or decks with welder, but I like the idea of them having to deal with my answer before they can win, plus I find that adding tinker helps to power it out faster which can be crucial in a combo match up where my opponent can win any turn, this is the way I look at it

(with Plat) Tinker Platinum angel into play - combo has to find and resolve a bounce spell before it can win
(with out Plat) Combo can freely go off (baring normal disruption)

(with Plat) Oath plat into play, - my opponent has to bounce plat that turn to win, second turn I oath tyrant and start bouncing
(with out Plat) Oath up tyrant - Attempt to bounce enough permanents to stop my opponent from comboing out

while yes it does seem "week" it find it can definitely be that 1 extra thing to "worry" about, and I do much like the comfort of "OK now you cant win until you deal with my stuff first"  and we all know combo does not play well with others, but as a critical thinker I do agree that it can be construed as weak, what do you recommend/suggest as a replacement?

I've played a lot of oath, and including variants running platz. I've found that its only good against manaless ichorid. the problem is that most decks are sbing in artifact hate to get rid of cotv specifically in addition to w/e else they're plan is. Platz, especially as on one of is easily answered by the major decks in the format games two and three, and for most of them game 1 as well. Unless the pilot as no idea what they are doing.

slaver: this deck typically will go down to 0 or 1 welder (mostly 1) game 2 and 3 in favor of rack and ruin, most of the time throwing a duplicant into the mix (I'm sure they're op with you  bouncing this guy as well).

Drain tendrils: Main deck chain, hurk's, and rebuild with an AMAZING draw engine.

Long: in this match up your cotv is going to be the problem for them. They're very good at killing you befor you can get platz out, no to mention they're notoriously good at finding certain cards and playing around control. not to mention they can probably turn off your FOW by putting you down to 0 before making a bounce attempt. If you look at a lot of list, they're running a 1x wipe away to deal with arcane lab, seems good against your platz.

platz as a preventative measure has always been found to be to slow and easily answered in my testing.

[Harlequin]

As I see it, there are basically two creature configurations that can work:

2x Hellkite Overlord, 1x Seize the Day
or
2x Tyrant, 1x Triskelavus, 1x Tinker, 1x Ravens Crime/Spitting immage

For those who haven't looked at the new Dragon box set:

Hellkite Overlord
Creature - Dragon (not legendary)
Flying, Trample, Haste
: +1/+0 until end of turn
: Regenerate
8/8

Oath should do everything possible close the window from 1st oath to win.  Ideally you oath, and win in the same turn.  I think Hellkite Overlord offers a good chance to do this.  In a simple situation, you have Oath #1 = 8 dmg, Oath #2 = 24 damage.  This means your oppoenent would need 4 toughness worth of flyers to surivive past your 2nd oath.  With sieze the day in the deck, you can win the game on the first oath for {R}{R} (one less mana than recoup-timewalk) ... assuming your opponent is still at 20 life.  You can scale back mana for damage if your opponenet is at 18 or 16 life. 

As compared to Dragon Tyrant... You don't need to hit Haste enchant then creature in order (often meaning you need more than 1 dragons breath).  You get 8 to the face every time... sieze the day is an added bonus that will be relevant in roughly 1 of 3 games. 

Evasion, Vigilance?  Oath creatures don't need evasion or vigilance if they win the game quick enough. 

----------------------------------------------------------

Tyrant builds.  In the absence of Gush, Tyrant builds can no longer rely on a storm win.  I think the best way to build a tyrant deck is to go back to the triskellion/triskellavus win.  The other card that has my attention is Spitting Immage.  You would almost certainly need double mox in play when you oath, but if you do you have a win condition.  If you ran something like Life from the Loam you could ensure a playable spell that simultaniously gets lands.  But even if you didn't you could play the entire combo out with double mox + 2 lands + any playble spell (plus the mana needed).  Play the spell, bounce mox.  Bounce mox <-> mox for 4 mana.  Now tap your two lands for 4UU and play the mox bouncing the land.  Now retrace Spitting Immage bouncing the mox and copying tyrant.  Now you can double bounce with Mox <-> Mox and clear the board.  Its yet another way to just oath a win condition right into the yard. 

[Nehptis]

@ Harley:
I think the essence of your argument is sound. Meaning that "Oath should do everything possible to close the window from 1st Oath to win."  But, I think those creature configs are a little too casual or at least unproven at the moment.  IMO, it's Akroma/Razia or Tyrants.  However, from what I've seen and experienced lately the challenges facing Oath are not the creature configs.  When we resolve Oath we are winning whether it be thru Angel beats or Tyrant control.  The issue is our approach to the Meta.

@ All the Oath and Colbert Report Lover's out there:
This brings us to tonight's "Word"...Identity Crisis.  The fundamental issue facing Oath is defining its role in the post BS and Gush/Bond meta.  Some are playing the ICBM (control/prison/combo) build.  Some are trying to play more the combo/control role.  But, thus far with the tourney reports that I've seen, Oath is obviously not winning enough.  When it does, one build is not winning more than the other.

I think these other discussions about the validity of Platz, Oath's optimal SB, and even discussions about the creature package are interesting.  But, are ultimately distractions from the core issue of, "What should Oath's role and game strategy be?"  The creature package discussion may be linked at some level.  But, it shouldn't be the core discussion point.

Unfortunately, I have more questions than answers at this time.  When we had Gush+Bond our role was mostly combo-control.  We could speed Oath out and win fast.  Sometimes we didn't even need Oath!  But, w/o it and BS, some players have settled into the Control/Prison role that sometimes can also be fast combo.  My problem, with the Control/Prison role is that we are a watered down version of both.  We are not as controllish as a MUC type deck and we are not as prison-ish as a Shop deck.  I  think this is what is keeping us from more T8 appearances and tourney victories.  Good opponents are prepared to battle a tough control or tough prison match.  So, when faced with a weaker version of either, they are preped and at an advantage.

I think this leads us down 1 of 3 paths.
1) Transform the deck to as much of a control build as possible.  (Leads us down a Tyrant Blue like path.)
2) Transform the deck to have more effective prison elements.  (Not sure if this is even possible and still use Oath.)
3) Figure out a way to return Oath to being a fast Combo/Control deck.  (It would have to be equal to the speed of TPS, IMO.)

Here's something that SK said:

Oath isn't a deck that can win through CA.  It wins through card quality rather than quantity. Trying to play a prison or control role is going to cause you to lose to decks that are a little more broken and have less dead draws then you.

Of the 3 paths I described SK's quote speaks to path 3.  And right now it's the path I think we should be working towards, combo/control...speed, speed, speed.  One disclaimer though.  COTV at 1 is an extremely powerful play right now.  So, if the COTV spots had to be cut from the Main, they should strongly be considered for the SB.

Again, I have more questions than answers, how do we reclaim speed in Oath?  Bazaar, Impulse, Top, It/AK, Omen (probably not Omen)?  Should we be trying to speed Oath up or should we try and slow the game down and cement ourselves firmly in a Control or Prison role?  I just don't know <Identity Crisis>....and that's the "Word".  We'll be right back.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I think the deck is fine; I just don't think enough players, specifically enough *good* players, are playing it.  I haven't played since Worlds, and I made top 20 or so there with virtually no practice in months.  James King just won a Lotus with Oath.  If people were playing it more, it would be doing better.  Oath's strength has always been its versatility; I wouldn't want to force it down a particular path and lose that.

[Nehptis]

There is some truth to statements about who is piloting which deck.  But, one good reason to play a deck is because you think it will win.  So, perhaps the "good" players aren't playing it because it has less chance of winning than say TPS or Slaver.

Now that could be because in an equal meta Oath is simply inferior (meaning the build is as good as it can be but the meta timing is wrong).  Or it can be that in an equal meta Oath has not yet been optimized.  I hope the latter is true.  Which is why I'm hoping Oath players will rise to the challenge and innovate it further.

[playkenny]

Harlequin: I have to say --> Seize the Day, wow...cannot wait to try this. Genius. I have been going down the 2 angel path (going on to 3 creatures soon and also cannot wait for Hellkite Overlord) so this is like a psudo timewalk i've always wanted! Thanks!

[Harlequin]

I really think Angels are now 2nd rate to Hellkite Overlord.  I think it's finally time that my Foil Razia/Akroma team joins my the page with Foil: Irridecent Anagel, Pristene Angel, Simic Sky Swallower, and Ancient Hyrda. 

I've always been interested in the Seize the Day + Dragon's Breath + Dragon Tyrant oath deck.  It was always my bar for "combo" oath.  The gigantic problem with Dragon Tyrant was the Upkeep Cost.  You NEEDED Dragon's Breath, and without it you Giga-wiff on oathing and often do more harm to yourself than good.  Seize the Day was never really worth it in an angel build, because 12 damage was rarely enough to be lethal.  Overlord solves both problems.  He has a BASE 8 damage with installed haste, dragon's breath + seize the day is a great tool to drop your oppenent down in after the first oath. 

Spitting Immage shows promise too, as right now I'm looking heavily into a Loam/Scroll Rack build of oath. 

I'm not sure what creature build works best when considering all the requirements: the speed to compete with combo, the consistancy to break through control, and the consistancy to out-menuver Agro-Tempo and Prison.  More to come

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'd imagine it would be optimal to run 1x white akroma 1x hellkite overlored. At worst its still 20 dmg turn two and ET doesn't completely wreck your win condition.

[Harlequin]

I fail to see any advantage Akroma has over the Overlord. 

Flying, Trample, Haste is a wash.

Pro-Black vrs Regeneration black creature - More or less a wash,  Snuff out cannot target Overlord. 

Pro-Red vrs size 8 butt + regeneration - advantage to Overlord, much harder to burn out (takes generally 3 spells) and has regeneration.  This also means in a pinch you can block Darksteel, take 3 damage and regenerate, then win next turn. Akroma and Razia both die when you do this, which means you may lose either way (blocked or unblocked).

Vigilance, First strike vrs Fire Breath - Vigilance and first strike are 99% irrelevant especially because you don't need vigilance if you are winning the game this turn. 

Sieze the Day vrs Savor the Moment - 16, :18, : 20 vrs 18 max.  Sieze the day has flashback, Savor the Moment must be in your hand.  Savor all around is pritty terrible outside of the post-oath cast, where running 1 seize does little to inhibbit the consistance of the deck.   

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@harly
Being the target of echoing truth

[Suicideking]

I fail to see any advantage Akroma has over the Overlord. 

Flying, Trample, Haste is a wash.

Pro-Black vrs Regeneration black creature - More or less a wash,  Snuff out cannot target Overlord. 

Pro-Red vrs size 8 butt + regeneration - advantage to Overlord, much harder to burn out (takes generally 3 spells) and has regeneration.  This also means in a pinch you can block Darksteel, take 3 damage and regenerate, then win next turn. Akroma and Razia both die when you do this, which means you may lose either way (blocked or unblocked).

Vigilance, First strike vrs Fire Breath - Vigilance and first strike are 99% irrelevant especially because you don't need vigilance if you are winning the game this turn. 

Sieze the Day vrs Savor the Moment - 16, :18, : 20 vrs 18 max.  Sieze the day has flashback, Savor the Moment must be in your hand.  Savor all around is pritty terrible outside of the post-oath cast, where running 1 seize does little to inhibbit the consistance of the deck.   

Seize the day sucks so hard when its in your hand though.  Dragons Breath only attaches if its in your yard prior to oathing.  Both these routes are terrible because they could just be more disruption to keep you from losing if oath isnt in play.  Winning in one turn isn't a goal you need to go after.  A two turn clock is fine, as long as you keep your opponent from winning. 

This deck should be these things:  Oath stuff, ways to find oath stuff, and disruption.  Think of the deck like that.  All of these cute little tricks are just cute.  I took down a lotus with this mentality at gencon last month, and it wasnt even that difficult.  This deck is awesome, but too many retards play it and fail horribly. 

[Nehptis]

SKing:  Could you give us a link to a list and/or tourney report?  If your build was that effective then let's add it to the discussion.

I'm not yet convinced by the repeated arguements that Bad players are playing Oath, and that's why it does poorly.  I think it's just not optimized yet.  I still question the effectiveness of the Control/Prison/Combo role.

[Suicideking]

Well im not going to post my list (Its good-to-go, but I can live without people telling me to play shitty cards, and the ICBM open is in a week), but i will say I opted for a more aggro-control role as i feel trying to play prison/control is wrong.  It isn't always wrong but in the current metagame it is.  I perfer to look at the deck as what cards will get oath into play the quickest and what will keep me from losing while I do that?  And I make my build based on my answers to those questions.

One of the reasons I play oath is because the only cards that are absolutely essential to the deck are 4 oaths and orchards, and creatures to win with.  From there the deck is your canvas to work with. 

I think this is a deck that takes a lot of trial and error and to be successful with it good players need to craft their list around their play style.  My oath list happens to be a lot different the Ben Carp's list which is different the Dan Carp's list and for good reason, we all play a little bit differently.     

[Soon-Man]

I have been testing a little with the list on page 1 of this thread. So far I really like what I have seen. Welder remains the one thorn preboard. I was thinking of adding something like a one-of darkblast. I was also looking at strange things like piracy charm and lose hope. Pretty sure that darkblast is the way to go, but idk, maybe someone here knows something i don't/

[Suicideking]

1.  James King
ICBM Suicide Oath

4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Negate
4 Oath of Druids
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Impulse
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Misdirection
1 Wipe Away
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Scroll Rack
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Island

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Oxidize
2 Simic Sky Swallower
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Massacre
1 Life from the Loam
1 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island


There it is for the public to behold. This deck has won two lotus tournaments for me in less then a month and I've only lost a match.  Its pretty much as sick of an oath deck as you will ever get to play.  There are some tweaks to make like -scroll and maybe 1 thoughtseize for another misd and mana source.  Other then that I spent a lot of time trying different card choices so if you suggest something really obv Ive tried it and it wasnt good enough.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

You mentioned cutting scroll rack, from what I saw, that card seemed completely insane. What makes you so unhappy with it?

[sigar]

I am pretty sure he means merchant scroll.

@Suicideking:

The deck looks amazing, good job. I know you said you've tried everything, but could you please explain the reason why you don't run crop rotation, loam, null rod and mystical tutor?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'd assume challice of the void @1, and mystical doesn't really find anything that good most of the time.

[andrewpate]

I assume that Simic Sky Swallowers come in against Swords to Plowshares.  Is there some other matchup when you tend to use them?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I assume that Simic Sky Swallowers come in against Swords to Plowshares.  Is there some other matchup when you tend to use them?

You always  bring them in against the mirror because, you can hard cast them , or blue running sower of temptation/controll magic. Certain stax match ups with multiple duplicants I'd consider it, its occasionally the right call.

[sigar]

I'd assume challice of the void @1, and mystical doesn't really find anything that good most of the time.

Joke? The list also runs thoughtseize, ponder and brainstorm. Even when brainstorm was 4 of you played chalice in oath. Mystical finds everything scroll does + more..

Anyway, I'd much rather hear the reasoning from the creator himself, since he is the only one who can explain the card choices

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'd assume challice of the void @1, and mystical doesn't really find anything that good most of the time.

Joke? The list also runs thoughtseize, ponder and brainstorm. Even when brainstorm was 4 of you played chalice in oath. Mystical finds everything scroll does + more..

Anyway, I'd much rather hear the reasoning from the creator himself, since he is the only one who can explain the card choices

No, I'm not joking. Its a pretty similar shell, I'd assume he doesn't run mystical for the same reason no one else has ever successfully played in a chalice oath (seems logical I'd say). Also, note the he mentioned an intent to cut scroll form his list (a conclusion I also came to after the tourny with my more traditional list), perhaps because it didn't find anything that useful.
I really don't understand your comment about "even when bs was a 4x..." I played oath religiously previous to the gush meta, and the top 8 list still never ran mystical for the reason I've mentioned.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Mystical is mostly irrelevant in a deck that lacks Yawgmoth's Will, Tinker, and Tendrils, and especially since you do like to play Chalice at 1.

[zeus-online]

So...Akroma over the 2nd hellkite? Why is that? I know i said earlier in the thread that i think akroma is just better, but i'd still like a reason

Then there's a few other cards that's bothering me:
Wipe away - Is it really better then E. truth?
Scroll rack - How good is it? Hmm might even test this in some of my decks!

Have you ever missed some real card-draw? (As in card advantegeus card-draw)

Oh and i LOVE random misdirections, they win games and don't take up much space.

/Zeus

[sigar]

No, I'm not joking. Its a pretty similar shell, I'd assume he doesn't run mystical for the same reason no one else has ever successfully played in a chalice oath (seems logical I'd say). Also, note the he mentioned an intent to cut scroll form his list (a conclusion I also came to after the tourny with my more traditional list), perhaps because it didn't find anything that useful.
I really don't understand your comment about "even when bs was a 4x..." I played oath religiously previous to the gush meta, and the top 8 list still never ran mystical for the reason I've mentioned.

My point was that running some number of cmc1 cards, doesn't hinder you from playing chalice in the same deck. As said, the list also contains thoughtseize, so adding 1 extra card with this cost wouldn't shut down the deck. It also seems like chalice @ 0 is much more likely to hit play with this build.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@sigar
Obviously you can manage a certain number of 1cc spells if you plan to cast chalice at 1, even stax runs 1cc, back in the day my limit was 6. the issues with mystical is why would you add to the number of cards dead under chalice with a card that, when active, doesn't really do much on its own.
as far as what to set your chalice at, its very matchup and turn dependent. You have to know how to evaluate what to set it at. I can remember specific games where set @ 1 my opponent would sit there and cry, as well as games where my opponent just could not over come chalice @ 0. you have to keep in mind scroll rack is a great way to get rid of chaliced out cards, and coupled with impulse/fetch it might be a while before you see them again. Props to james for the build, you can bet I'll be testing the crap out of it.
I do have a few questions

Is thoughtseize really that much better than duress? I know the like loss coasted you at least one game, does the lose of drain for negate really make it that necessary?
with out the typical factories and the lose of tfk, do you just scoop to chalice @2 game 1?
what would u suggest as an answer to bloodmoon?

[Suicideking]

Merchant scroll was the card i was talking about cutting. 

@Sigar.  Basically Merchant scroll replaces itself at the very least.  Mystical turns into more card disadvantage which can be bad.  The best play I can ever seem to get out of MT is MT-DT-Oath, which pretty much is terrible.  Additionally, the strength of this deck is its abitlity to play chalice@1 so consistanly.  That said I probably wouldnt run Merchant scroll or mystical in the future.  That slot will most likely become a second Misd.  Basically, Misd isnt random in this deck at all.  Ive usually played 2 or more.  It functions much in the same way it did in Pitchlong or Meandeck gifts.  It becomes another force of will when you want to play oath. 

You can't run two hellkites because of echoing truth, I know how likely will it come up, but it does, and I perfer not to lose to it when it does.  Akroma is easier to hardcast which should be telling a lot.

Wipe away isnt better the E. truth, but You can go cold to a resolved chalice@2.  Granted, if stax doesn't see much play you are probably fine for running ET and i wouldn't fault anyone for doing so, but it is a risk.

The list I ran at gencon had 3 scroll racks in it, which was too many, but 1 seems perfect.  Its not relevent every game but its the only card that I want in play in turns 6-15 besides oath.  I can say In the last two tournaments I've won at least 3 games soley on Scroll racks back. 

Crop rotation I've found isn't the greatest.  Its not bad, but it just doesnt do it for me.  Most of the time Im digging up strip mine.  Loam is good enough for the board, as is null rod, but the point of this deck is to be aggressive and get turn 1-2 oaths in play.  Loam and Rod are just too slow and control oriented for me.  I never want to get to the point where Loam is good if i can avoid it.

[Soon-Man]

So is the only change to the deck from the list you posted -1 Merchant Scroll and +1 Misdirection?

Edit: I just looked up Hellkite Overlord on the gatherer. It has no listings for its format legality. I haven't been keeping up with set releases at all since Future Sight, did the Dragon thing even come out yet?