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Author Topic: Single Card discussion: Megrim  (Read 2182 times)
Lurker101
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« on: July 08, 2008, 03:56:23 pm »

Hey, it just seems that with Thoughtseize, Bazaar of Baghdad, and TfK all over the format Megrim might be a good answer card.
It doesn't have a prohibitive mana cost at all and can be cast off 1 ritual. It deals 6 damage for each Bazaar activation and balances your own Thoughtseizes in your favor. It's also at least 2 damage for every TfK an opponent plays and as I understand the effect is cumulative. Any thoughts on why this is/isn't viable?
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2008, 04:56:54 pm »

Moved from Vintage Open to Vintage Improvement.
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c dizzle
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 12:46:27 pm »

The general problem with Megrim decks has always been that your opponent runs out of cards before it can go lethal. Megrim-based decks just aren't viable as an archetype. As a sideboard answer, it may be somewhat useful against Bazaar decks, but I still think it won't do the job well enough. Dragon will just dump what it needs into the yard and win over the top of Megrim. Ichorid has plenty of answers for Megrim maindeck and it just gets better for them post-board. Cerebral Assassin will just use its alternate wins to negate Megrim. Bazaar Stax will just hold off on using Bazaar until it has Smokestacked your Megrim away. It may be useful in conjunction with other disruption, but there are several other cards that are better and less conditional answers.

Just my $0.02.
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nero angelo
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 10:31:31 am »

I have this idea about Megrim.


Using the ff cards:

Memory Jar
Wheel of Fate
Wheel of Fortune
Black Vise

Just a fun deck though.


here's the list...


4 Megrim
1 Memory Jar
4 Wheel of Fate
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Dark Ritual
4 Black Vise
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen (or Grim Tutor)
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach / Thoughtsieze

4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Withered Wretch
4 Dark Confidant (??)

4 Cabal Pit
14 Swamp

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void ?
4 Contagion
don't know what to place anymore.

hahaha
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Justin
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 07:49:34 am »

Winds of Change + Dream Salvage could help, although its still difficult to go off.
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 11:29:24 am »

The big issue with Megrim is that it doesn't nail an opponent for previously discarded cards before it comes down. Why this is relevant is that it rules out a strategy of using lots of D7s until you find Megrim and killing them that way. Jar decks could pull it off since the discarding happened at the end of the turn.
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Lurker101
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 04:33:41 pm »

Yeah here's an old megrim list of mine from back when Invasion block/Masques Block and 7th ed were standard legal. I've updated it somewhat but I don't think it is viable.

Creatures: 10
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Urborg Emissary
4 Dimir Cutpurse
Core:10
4 Warped Devotion
4 Megrim
2 Urza's Guilt
Draw/tutor:9
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Memory Jar
1 Windfall
2 Probe
2 Dream Salvage
Mana Acceleration: 4
4 Dark Ritual
Bounce: 10
2 Recoil
2 Rushing River
2 Rebuild
2 Echoing Truth
2 Repulse
Broken:2
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
Mana Base: 15
1 Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
4 Underground Sea
4 Swamp
4 Island

Even after modifying it for vintage it looks like it would get rolled on  Sad
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andrewpate
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 07:19:17 am »

The big issue with Megrim is that it doesn't nail an opponent for previously discarded cards before it comes down. Why this is relevant is that it rules out a strategy of using lots of D7s until you find Megrim and killing them that way. Jar decks could pull it off since the discarding happened at the end of the turn.

A correlary to this problem is that fact that Megrim does nothing on its own, so it is important to make the rest of the cards in the deck pull their own weight in order to avoid the problem of a hand full of one piece and nothing to do until you find the other.  This means that you want to play good discard spells, but the problem is that all of the best/most efficient discard spells (Duress, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, hell even Hymn to Tourach) work best when you play them early.

Check the "Suicide Black" list from the top 8 of last year's Vintage Worlds, played by Vincent Forino.  That deck ran, iirc, 4 Duress, 4 Therapy, 2 Extirpate all maindeck.  This is a potent disruption suite capable of plays like removing all of an opponent's Force of Wills from the game on the first turn.  But Megrim would be useless in that deck because those spells will all be spent by the time 3 mana is even available (or else you will use a Dark Ritual to play Megrim early, giving the opponent time to play more cards before getting hit by discard).

This leaves Draw7s, which Hi-Val, as quoted above, explains to be equally poor.  Oscar Tan went so far as to write an article once about cards like this in which he actually named the problem where an engine card is useful at a different point in the game from the rest of its engine as the "Megrim Problem" and gave a lot of strong evidence why, regardless of meta, such cards can never really be effective (barring something like 4xMemory Jar, which is not a testament to Megrim's power so much as a corner case involving a bizarre quirk of a specific overpowered card).
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Cavius The Great
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2008, 02:05:03 pm »

I have this idea about Megrim.


Using the ff cards:

Memory Jar
Wheel of Fate
Wheel of Fortune
Black Vise

Just a fun deck though.


here's the list...


4 Megrim
1 Memory Jar
4 Wheel of Fate
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Dark Ritual
4 Black Vise
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen (or Grim Tutor)
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach / Thoughtsieze

4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Withered Wretch
4 Dark Confidant (??)

4 Cabal Pit
14 Swamp

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void ?
4 Contagion
don't know what to place anymore.

hahaha

Isn't draw-7s and Hypnotic Specter counterintuitive? They usually find answers for creatures off draw-7's, am I right? Oh, and Dream Salvage definitely deserves testing.

EDIT: Chains of Mephistopheles and Anvil of Bogardan might be another way to abuse Megrim.
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