Er, my deck

[Schonkreuz]

**edit- I messed up the list. The spirit guides were 2/2 when I played the deck.

So for the Vintage Champs I got stuck with a bit less cards then my friends...while they got moxxen and drains I got, er null rod. Determined however I decided what the hell...I'll give it a shot...and so came this deck. We actually found a fairly similar deck on deckcheck.net but I hadn't looked at it to begin with so I consider it my own still(though two of my pals helped me with some things).

I present to you, er Moon Glow -_-; the name is still being worked on.

4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Glowrider
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Simian Spirit Guide

1 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Manamorphose 
2 Life from the Loam

2 Null Rod

2 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2Wooded Foothills
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland

SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation

My issue is that I'm not certain if I would like to add lightning bolts back or even possibly add more null rods. Any help with the list is very appreciated

[Schonkreuz]

I guess since alot of people have read this but not responded I'll explain what the deck is supposed to do a bit. Even with just a glance you should be able to see that you are supposed to shut down their mana sources(null rod for moxxen and such, wastland/stripmine/magus for their lands). I think that life from the loam was a good idea on my friend's part because with that I can get back wastes and such. Very neat.

Like I said before, any comments at all or anyone who thinks that something else should be in it please tell me.

[bisamratte]

In my opinion you basicly have 2 choices in type 1: getting cardadvante and dropping bombs. Your deck is able to get board advantage, but if your hand is emptied, you don't have threads any more. I've got experience with several Fish- and TMWAdecks and I think you really need Dark Confident, Standstill or any other good carddraw. Otherwise you won't get enought reenfocements for your disruption engine.

Btw: you'll loose every game vs combo, if your opponent counters/bounces an early Glowrider or Null Rod. Your SB should contain Chalices or Thorns to have more threads on the table.

I hope my post was helpfull...

[Schonkreuz]

Yea...I've been trying to figure out a way to draw in this deck while still remaining loyal to the colors...it is very hard. With the combo bit not every time, an early glowrider(is a thorn) or teeg sets them back. Hey even null rod helped when I played against variants of tendrils back to back at vintage worlds. I do admit that I need more for storm, I just was not expecting there to be so much of it (bad information from friends) and so I was not prepared for it past those few cards. I was thinking perhaps a funny rule of law or pyrostatic pilliar, (the latter over the first of course though I was unable to obtain either.) The bit about standstill of bob is tempting, though this would mean cutting a color to add another and I am not certain if I'm prepared to do that yet or not.

I do however agree with the things you mentioned, and I will be searching for ways to fix these problems.  Thanks *<:3=

[yangtime]

I'm not really good with creature decks, but could Augury Adept be useful in this deck?  I know it's a three drop, but it does gain you life and an extra card if it hits with combat.

[Schonkreuz]

>scratches chin< That sounds like a nifty little idea. It is double white though I don't -think- it should be that hard to drop. Perhaps I will see how it plays . *<:3=

[beder]

Hi,

I am not sure about using in a build the 2 packages :
- the "reccursive land destruction" package : strip effects and life from the loan
- the moon effect packagage : magusus of the moon

If magus is on board, then life and strips become totally useless. Moreover, even with manamorphose, all your green/white mana may be difficult to get.
If you succeed in applying pressure with strip effects, then magus become really less interesting.
Perhaps should you focus on strip effects, life and aven mindcensor to attack the mana base.

Then, IMO, the null rod count should really been increased, at least 3 according to me.

Combo : something has to been done against combo. Thorn may be a solution or pyrostatic (but both of them are not very good with manamorphose).
If thorn, then ancient tomb may be very interesting (so good to play avenmindcensor or glowrider). But then, perhaps should you focus on only 2 colors : white green for instance. It would help you getting the right mana, you wouldn't need manamorphose anymore, could be able to play thorn.

And when it comes to the drawing engine, some decks already succeeded in doing well without it. Sure it is pretty rare, but it happens (for instance the R/G decks that won power last year, can't remember the name).


Just my 2 cents

[IndykidVago]

1st off welcome to the boards.

2ndly, I agree with beder. I've been toying with Rgw beats and have included 4 Null Rod since it slows the game down and Skullclamps & Manamorphose for the weak draw engine... the result is still a bit shakey but it's a blast to play.

I've also set aside 3 Root Maze in the SB, as the only way it seems to be able to win is by slowing the game way way down.

2 cents

[Schonkreuz]

The original list included rootmaze, though I was uncertain of it. I am willing to try it out thought, considering it got cut before I even tested the deck(though that was the first attempt, while the deck that you see is a tad different.) Oh and the null rod bit I know that, I don't give a damn if it is a dead draw after you play it that card got me places in so many of my matches at the last tournament I played in...it was unreal.

Again, thanks for the help!!!! *<:3=

[Cavius The Great]

Tin-Street Hooligan is actually pretty decent. I'd also consider Jotun Grunt as a beater and anti-ichorid type card. I might be even better than Goyf is this format but if you don't like the dissynergy I'd probably put him in the board.

And hell yea, we need more hot girls playing Magic. 

[Schonkreuz]

I cannot help but laugh, because of the things being mentioned where in there at one point or another. Grunt is neat but it kinda eats away at goyf over time and plus it kinda goes poof, though on board I wouldn't mind it vs. graveyard match ups

[The Atog Lord]

This is the deck that knocked me out of Vintage Worlds. Teeg, Null Rod, and Glow Rider teemed up with Basic Lands to get me. I wouldn't cut Null Rod -- it's too powerful to cut. Mr. Teeg was quite a concern as well; because I didn't have Colossus in the maindeck, his appearance for a second time, Chain of Vapor having been pitched to counter the first one, was sufficient for me to scoop up and go to game two. Game two, DSC did his job well. In the third game, however, Null Rod and Glow Rider got me once my Colossus moved to Indiana and became a farmer. I could have dealt with either one, but the combination of one and the other was more than I was able to remove before Tarmogoyf dropped me to a negative life total.

Well done.

[Schonkreuz]

Thanks for the reply, I really think this is a deck you need to play against to understand  . I happened to draw a nice combination of cards against you, though later against Paul it seemed all my luck was run out . You are one of the nicest magic players I've ever met...and I feel silly not realizing who you were till after the match heh ^-^;

[Implacable]

It seems like this deck just wrecks Slaver while edging Stax and doing alright v. Long.  That said, I have a couple of points:

1) This deck pretty exclusively attacks the mana of objectively 'better' decks.  Therefore, perhaps the Mindcensors should be cut, because (while they do attack mana to a degree) both Magus and Glowrider are superior attacks against a manabase.  Additionally, Null Rods should be upped; they are just sick.

2) Crop Rotation is probably a bit weak, because having it countered is murder on you.  Likewise, Manamorphose doesn't seem necessary; I'd rather just tweak the spell/creature balance and cut them.

3) Because you're boarding in Blasts, Simian Spirit Guide seems like it'd be a lot better than ESG.

So here's an idea of what I might make:

4 Kird Ape
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Glowrider
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Gaddok Teeg

4 Null Rod
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Life from the Loam

4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine

4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Tin-Street Hooligan
1 Pyroblast

[Schonkreuz]

Lucky for me these are all things that I have heard before and the changes are in fact similar to what I've been thinking up. The list you gave me is really -really- is not completely similar to what I'm changing the deck to. I knew I needed null rods after vintage worlds...Before I was worried about a deck draw but I don't care anymore after seeing how important it was to helping me win.

On a side note -EVERY- time I dropped a goyf the response was something along the lines of "Wow, he is big." >snickers<

[LordHomerCat]

3) Because you're boarding in Blasts, Simian Spirit Guide seems like it'd be a lot better than ESG.

The thing is though, it seems like Teeg is oftentimes your best card and SSG doesn't cast him while ESG does.  I looked at the list the first time and thought the same thing, but then I looked again and saw Gaddock Teeg and realized that he was probably the reason for ESG.

[Schonkreuz]

Yea, the one thing I seem to not want to change no matter how many people tell me is that I want to keep the Spirit guides 2/2

[M.Solymossy]

I suggested via AIM the addition of Mox Diamond, due to wanting to cast 2CC dudesweats as soon as possible, as well as giving you the chance to cast 3CC guys too.  For this reason, I'd also suggest adding Lotus Petal. 

I also suggested the addition of Sylvan Library over Manamorphose, because it's virtual card advantage and also allows you to draw that extra card (at a cost). 

Some other thoughts that crossed my mind:
Loam could probably be cut to a 1of, since you'll just be returning Mountains most of the time.  I do understand how much of a threat this card is, but without a draw engine, loam seems rough on you.  The other aggro decks that run this are usually playing Confidants of the Not so Light variety. 

Samurai of the pale curtain is probably way too rough on your mana-base.  It's unfortunate, because this guy is pretty solid.

Where are your chalices of the void?  You could actually play 4 chalices without power, and maybe run 2 or 3 shrapnel blast.   It seems like an OK finisher in a 0 proxy environment, especially if you add diamond.  It also makes your null rods more threatening.

WHERE IS VEXING SHUSHER?!?!?!?!?!?

[Ancestralx]

I think adding a ruby, emerald, pearl, Black lotus would not hurt even with null rod similar to fish. This would speed it up. I know you didnt have extra power but for proxy 10 or if you picked some up this weekend

[Sean Ryan]

Congratulations on your innovative performance. I think you might have stumbled onto something here, there are really numerous directions you could take this concept.

You could to cut the red and add black.  I know sounds blasphemous, but here me out. You lose the following:

Ape
Fanatic
Magus Moon
(Heretic if you choose)
REB/Pyroblast
Ancient Grudge

The only thing that really hurts is the loss of MAgus and the SB cards.

By adding black you immediately gain Dark Confidant and Duress/Seize to the maindeck.  This solves the problem of the draw engine and helps your combo match significantly.  Other creature options include Negator and Withered Wretch.  You get Leyline and Jailer in the SB for the Dredge match up as well.  True Believer is another option to help against Long, possibly a 3/3 split with Teeg.   

If you really miss the Apes, then run his green cousin Skyshroud elite or even Lions/Hounds.  However, I don't thats necessary.

Here is a rough draft:

Spells: 15
8 Duress/Seize
3 Rod
4 Stp

Creatures: 21
4 Goyf
4 Confidant
3 Teeg
3 True Beleiver
3 Kataki
3 Glowrider
2 Negator/Aven Mindcensor/Withered Wretch ???

Mana:23
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
6 Fetch (8 might be better)
5 Strip/Waste
4 Lotus/Moxes or ESGs

SB possibilities
Leyline
Jailer
Thorn
Krosan Grip
Oxidize
Jitte
Dark Blast


   

[StarOrc]

Couple of things I was thinking while reading this.

Countryside Crusher seems like he would fit right in the deck. Crusher seems like virtual card advantage after he hits because he helps with dead land draws and if you have Life going he can get pretty big pretty fast.

Also Cold-Eye Selkie is a castable draw engine for this deck. Its a bit slow but it should hit against almost everything.

No one else has seemed to mention this yet, but Kataki seems more like a sideboard card to me. I could be wrong but those seem like they could go without much of a problem.

Corey

[Bongo]

I've tested your build a little bit and made some tweaks. This is the list I would recommend to you:

4 Kird Ape / Gorilla Shaman
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Glowrider
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Null Rod
4 Rancor

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl

1 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

You can easily replace the 4 pieces of power with SSG/ESG if you're playing without proxies.

I cut Kataki and the Loam engine because it was too clunky and redundant. Your best disruption is Null Rod, Magus and Teeg. If you really want to screw powered decks, you can even run Gorilla Shaman instead of Kird Ape.
Cold Eyed Selkie provides you with card advantage, especially combined with Rancor. Rancor is really good, since it speeds up your clock so much in addition with its synergy with Selkie. It also allows you to run the aforementioned Gorilla Shaman without losing a lot of speed.

[Schonkreuz]

I'm not certain about the loam engine being cluncky, I mean I -does- screw your opponent out of most if not all of their lands if done correctly :\

And with Cold-Eyed Selkie, again this was another suggestion. It is basically between that and Augary Adept now. Rancor, however, is a first time suggestion, though I think it really is a good idea...I'm just saying that it was something that none of my friends had thought of.

-A side notw- I really REALLY wish I could use price of progress in this deck, it would be so neat. I mean, why not abuse the fact that when magus is out your seat of synod is a Mountain with a supertype artifact or your Sea is a mountian with a supertype of non basic land :3.

[IthilanorStPete]

-A side not- I really REALLY wish I could use price of progress in this deck, it would be so neat. I mean, why not abuse the fact that when magus is out your seat of synod is a Mountain with a subtype artifact or your Sea is a mountian with a subtype of non basic land :3.

What on earth are you talking about?
1. Seat of the Synod never has subtype artifact, artifact is a type.
2. There's no such thing as having the subtype "nonbasic land." A land is nonbasic if it doesn't have the basic supertype.
3. Magus of the Moon has no interaction with Price of Progress other then making it easier to cast.

[Schonkreuz]

Er sorry, I just woke up(hint all of the misspelling) and I must of worded it wrong....let me explain what I meant.

A couple of weeks ago someone told me that I was the stupid one when I thought that when magus is in play that everything was -just- a mountain. He told me that everything becomes a mountain but retains being say an artifact land or non basic (That is why you can still shattering spree artifact lands, he explained). Now if you are going to continue to get all pissy about it, I can gladly redirection your attention to the one that told me this. Other then that...calm down alright?

[Schonkreuz]

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=136152

[andrewpate]

-A side not- I really REALLY wish I could use price of progress in this deck, it would be so neat. I mean, why not abuse the fact that when magus is out your seat of synod is a Mountain with a subtype artifact or your Sea is a mountian with a subtype of non basic land :3.

What on earth are you talking about?
1. Seat of the Synod never has subtype artifact, artifact is a type.
2. There's no such thing as having the subtype "nonbasic land." A land is nonbasic if it doesn't have the basic supertype.
3. Magus of the Moon has no interaction with Price of Progress other then making it easier to cast.

Although she is clearly misusing the word "subtype" here, I think her point is pretty clear.  The "interaction" between Magus of the Moon and Price of Progress is that the Magus will not make, as she says, the opponent's Underground Sea into a basic Mountain, so Price of Progress will steal deal damage.  She was saying that this fact will allow you to sort of "double dip," disabling the opponent's mana while still dealing damage.

That said, Price of Progress is cute but weak.  At heart, it is just a burn spell, and there are stronger, more consistent ways of dealing damage and ones which do not damage you as well.  I would rather add Lightning Bolt to the deck, and I would not add Lightning Bolt.

[Schonkreuz]

>blushes< I had meant to say supertype, forgive a just waking person wontcha? And the whole point of that wasn't that I wanted to use it, I just thought that the idea of it was hillarious.

[Cavius The Great]

Have you considered Thorn of Amethyst? Seems solid with so many creatures, and works great as disruption when combined with Glowrider and Null Rod. 

I'd also run Lotus Petal and Chrome Mox to cast a first turn Null Rod, assuming that you're not playing with Moxen.

[Schonkreuz]

I have actually...tis why glowrider is in there. It is a thorn creature :3. And when it comes to playing a first turn null rod that is the spirit guides duty, I'm just weary of playing things that get shut down by a very important card in my deck.