Extreme Vintage

[Lurker101]

Extreme Vintage is the same as regular vintage but some silver bordered cards are legal.
Here's a list of the legal Un-set cards.
Mise (restricted)
Mana Screw
Gerrymandering
Once More With Feeling
Goblin Tutor
Staying Power
Strategy Schmategy
World Bottling Kit
Jack in the Mox
Mine, Mine, Mine!
Ricochet
Chicken A La King
Chicken Egg
Clam-I-Am
Elvish Impersonators
Free Range Chicken
Goblin Bookie (Watchlist)
Goblin Bowling Team
Growth Spurt
Jumbo Imp
Krazy Kow
Temp of the Damned
Urza's Science Fair Project
Who?/What?/When?/Where?/Why?
Burning Cinder Fury of Crimson Chaos Fire
BINGO
Rocket Powered Turbo Slug
Clambassadors
Ambiguity
Blast from the Past
Greater Morphling
Infernal Spawn of Evil
Timmy, Power Gamer
Johnny, Combo Player
Look at Me I'm R&D
Magical Hacker
Now I know my ABCs
Richard Garfield PHD
S.N.O.T.
Symbol Status
The Fallen Apart
Togglodyte
Uktabi Kong
Urza's Hot Tub
Flock of Rabid Sheep
Yet Another Aether Vortex
Zzzyxas' Abyss
Gift's Given

Other Legal Cards:
Mox Crystal (restricted)
Shahrezad (Restricted)
1996 World Champion
Shichifukujin Dragon

Goblin Bookie is on the watch list because in this format he is absolutely insane! Especially with multiples and Krark's Thumb and cards like Chance Encounter, Goblin Bomb, Fiery Gambit, and Squee's Revenge

Additionally: Goblin Game is banned. There is no way to play with it online and I want this format to work on MWS and Apprentice (etc.)

If anyone wants to start playing this format or has any other ideas please let me know. I think it could be a really fun casual vintage format.

[Mr. Type 4]

why are only these cards allowed.  Doesn't seem too extreme to me.  If we're allowing Un-cards, why not just go crazy...

[Ephraim]

I predict that Tinkering for Mox Lotus would be hot.  Sounds like an interesting experiment, though.  What would Vintage be like if silver-bordered cards were legal?

[Harlequin]

I think of ALL the cards to be banned, R&D's Lair would be #1 on the list. 

I think there are certainly classes of cards that could cause some problems:

- Rule Breaking Cards (R&D, Cheatyface, Enter the Dungeon):  They just don't belong in a constructed deck.  Too many unresolvably interaction.

- Manual Dexterity Cards (chaos confetie, hand cuffs, clay pidgeon etc):  Historicly not allowed because it interferes with tournement play, and is unfair to people with moter disabilities. 

- Speach Cards (Gotcha's, Toy Boat, etc.. there are tons of them): again probably unfair to people with speak disabilities.

- Outside of Game cards (Gus, the "Double" Cycle, Booster Tutor): These would probably be too swingy, and would require some sort of tracking system.  Also what really counts as a game?   

- "Truth" Cards (Grannies Revenge, Avatar of Me): Probably not that bad so long as everyone was actually honest.

- 1/2 damage, 1/2 mana, and 6-sided dice:  These are probably ok.  Some intereaction would have to be defined like for example can I tap  2 City of Ass to play: 1 Mogg Fanatic, 1 Tarpan, and 1 Wild Cantor?

[Lurker101]

I think of ALL the cards to be banned, R&D's Lair would be #1 on the list. 

I think there are certainly classes of cards that could cause some problems:

- Rule Breaking Cards (R&D, Cheatyface, Enter the Dungeon):  They just don't belong in a constructed deck.  Too many unresolvably interaction.

- Manual Dexterity Cards (chaos confetie, hand cuffs, clay pidgeon etc):  Historicly not allowed because it interferes with tournement play, and is unfair to people with moter disabilities. 

- Speach Cards (Gotcha's, Toy Boat, etc.. there are tons of them): again probably unfair to people with speak disabilities.

- Outside of Game cards (Gus, the "Double" Cycle, Booster Tutor): These would probably be too swingy, and would require some sort of tracking system.  Also what really counts as a game?   

- "Truth" Cards (Grannies Revenge, Avatar of Me): Probably not that bad so long as everyone was actually honest.

- 1/2 damage, 1/2 mana, and 6-sided dice:  These are probably ok.  Some intereaction would have to be defined like for example can I tap  2 City of Ass to play: 1 Mogg Fanatic, 1 Tarpan, and 1 Wild Cantor?

That's why I only chose the cards I chose. They don't (except for R&D) break major game rules or use dexterity or any of that. They are actual playable cards. I avoided 1/2 mana and 1/2 damage because it also fell under breaking major game rules. The six sided dice is more like a block mechanic to me and adds some interesting play risks. I'll update the list to add a few more cards and restrict R&D's secret Lair (but not ban it).

[Harlequin]

R&D's lair makes irreprable gamestates:

For example: I have Root Sliver in play (which reads "Sliver spells cannot be countered", and is errated to have "by spells or abilites").  Lets say I also have a Hybernation Sliver in play (that can return himself to my hand).  You target Hybernation Sliver with Crib Swap (a sliver spell).  In response I bounce Hybernation Sliver to my hand.  How do we resolve this?  The spell can NOT be countered upon resolution... meaning it has to resolve.  But it cannot resolve because it doesn't have a legal target.

I can't remember the card, but I know there was a card that let you become the owner of something after you gained control of it before an errata was instituted.  (it had to do with original wording like "Return a creature you control to your hand.")

Also how do you deal with Text-less cards?  do they do nothing? 

How about Interupts?  What do they do?  Can they even be played?  There's no rules about -when- you can play an interupt in the comp rules anymore.  What about "Summon Creature" What is there card type?  does it count as both a Summon and a Creature?  What about cards that read "As though it were just summoned" ... theres no such thing!  What about a card that reads "Summon Rat" as it's type?  Does this count as a creature?  The card doesn't say it does.

And of-course my favorite card of all time: Floral Spuzzum. 

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.  There are just too many problems with throwing away erratas.
 

[Lurker101]

R&D's Secret Lair has been Banned

[andrewpate]

@Harlequin
Don't forget that any play with silver-bordered cards, per the special Comprehensive Rules appendix pertinent to them, requires that all unresolvable rules questions be answered in whatever form is funniest.  Since drawn games aren't funny, possible resolutions of the Crib Swap problem include saying that the game continues as normal with Crib Swap on the stack for the rest of the game (meaning no more non-instant cards getting played this game, not all that funny) or just saying that since the spell can neither resolve nor be countered, it instead gets sent to the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone (funnier if AWOL is also legal).  And of course Floral Spuzzem would get you a DQ for coaching (hilarious!), pretty much guaranteeing that, like most of these problems, the situation would be resolved by players simply choosing not to play cards that don't play well with R&D's Secret Lair.

Interrupts and Summon spells would be played as normal, according to the rules originally governing them; i.e., "without errata" including to the rules governing them.  Alternatively, they could be treated as blanks due to the fact that they call for rules which do not exist, effectively the same as if you put a Yu-Gi-Oh card in your Magic deck.

Honestly, though, you can only summon an Island Fish Jasconius with a Polluted Delta so many times before the novelty of the few really interesting things the card can do wears off.  Like most Un-set cards, it's amusing when you first read it, funny the first time it does something cute in-game, but just annoying and clunky in the long run.

[Ephraim]

- Outside of Game cards (Gus, the "Double" Cycle, Booster Tutor): These would probably be too swingy, and would require some sort of tracking system.  Also what really counts as a game?   

I always thought that these would be some of the easiest cards to adjudicate in a tournament setting.  "A game" would constitute only a game played formally within the tournament setting.  If you meet somebody in the Top 8 whom you met earlier and against whom you played a "double" card, it still counts as the "next game."  Because the structure of games and matchups is so clearly drawn in tournament settings, I always thought of the "double" cards as some of the most interesting and least wacky cards in the silver-bordered sets -- definitely candidates for inclusion in a future non-silver set.

I think that games that modify the initial state of the game have a lot of untapped potential.  Serum Powder and the Leylines definitely set new boundaries for when cards may be permitted to affect the game.  Having a state carry between games might create memory issues, but I think that if they could resolve those it would be worth it.

[Lurker101]

Does anyone want to set up an online tourny for this format? I don't know how to. It would be fun to try out though.

[Lurker101]

Anyone interested in helping me make some rulings and a full b/r list? Also I need help setting up an online tournament in the future if people are interested.