Yare
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« on: August 31, 2008, 11:09:46 pm » |
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This is a thread for discussing the Banned/Restricted changes for September 1, 2008. While I am not a moderator, I would strongly urge you to really think before starting another new thread about the B/R changes because you think it somehow deserves its own thread beyond this intended catch all thread. Thank you. Changes are here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/news/09012008 Vintage
Time Vault is restricted*
Chrome Mox is no longer restricted
Dream Halls is no longer restricted
Mox Diamond is no longer restricted
Personal Tutor is no longer restricted
Time Spiral is no longer restricted
*Time Vault's power-level errata will be removed in conjunction with the next Oracle update on September 26. The Update Bulletin on September 24 will contain Time Vault's new Oracle text and an explanation of the change. |
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 11:15:08 pm by Yare »
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NicolaeAlmighty
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2008, 12:11:10 am » |
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VROMAN! WAKE UP! YOUR DREAM HAS COME TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE!
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"Hey, I got the bye!" shouted Probasco when he heard the Featured Match call. Menendian glared at him, and the glare only worsened when Probasco asked, "Hey Steve, how's your sister doing lately?" |
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wox2
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2008, 12:15:30 am » |
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Chrome Mox unrestricted? Mox Diamond is good move but on the other hand Chrome Mox and it´s power with Draw sevens? Vintage may be more open to budget decks now. And it is good. But I think Grim long players will use full power + some Chromes...
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Blitzbold
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2008, 12:17:43 am » |
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These changes are only logical steps to clean up the restricted list. Way to many bad cards were assembled there over the years.
Will there be some impact on deckbuilding? Maybe some people will try to build a new Draw-7-Combodeck... maybe someone will try to abuse Dream Halls... But, to be honest, the only card that might show up in higher numbers is probably Chrome Mox. Maybe Mox Diamond finds some space in some kind of crazy land.dec, but all in all I don't expect too much impact from these changes.
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The second mouse gets the cheese.  |
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NicolaeAlmighty
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 12:18:00 am » |
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It isn't as good as you'd think. When Chrome first came out TPS players tried it... and I saw many more games fizzle due to the card disadvantage than won due to another accelerant.
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"Hey, I got the bye!" shouted Probasco when he heard the Featured Match call. Menendian glared at him, and the glare only worsened when Probasco asked, "Hey Steve, how's your sister doing lately?" |
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Yare
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 12:19:36 am » |
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While I personally am a little concerned about Chrome Mox and Time Spiral, I am absolutely thrilled about the Time Vault change. While I don't know that it will impact the format much, it is a significant nod to the Vintage community for this change to be made (assuming the change actually removes the power level errata, which I believe it will).
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2008, 12:48:01 am » |
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This is terrific. I will happily state that I am now firmly in the camp of Erik Lauer fans. I miss my brainstorms and ponders, sure, but I am very impressed (and surprised!) with how quickly he decided to implement many of the changes suggested by Steve and others both online and in person. For the first time in a long time, it feels like we have an actual say in the direction of the format as a playerbase. I'm sure some people will say that the last major announcement was evidence of that, but I don't really feel that's the case as few if any suggested all those moves. Everything here is something many players have asked for and I am very excited to see this happen.
So vroman, what's the next card you're going to unrestrict, as the DCI appears to have agreed with you on this one finally?
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Team Meandeck Team Serious LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2008, 01:44:57 am » |
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This marks the end of a campaign that Steve and I began over a year ago. I am thrilled to see this. Thank you, Wizards, for doing the right thing.
Rich Shay
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 05:34:06 am by The Atog Lord »
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Smmenen
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2008, 02:09:29 am » |
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Unreal.
Wow.
Stephen
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wox2
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 02:41:19 am » |
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It isn't as good as you'd think. When Chrome first came out TPS players tried it... and I saw many more games fizzle due to the card disadvantage than won due to another accelerant.
I am not talking about TPS. Grimlong is not TPS or Pitchlong. It has really much times cards it doesn´t need but need mana. Chrome Mox opens doors for Infernal Tutor to Vintage. I am not saying Chrome will be played 4 times but it will be 2-4 in my builds. It is the third most powerful Mox in Grimlong. |
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Tobi
Tournament Organizers
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Combo-Sau
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 03:05:36 am » |
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At least multiple Chrome Moxes may find a home in Belcher lists...
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2b || !2b
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Elfrago
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2008, 03:06:20 am » |
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Belcher players around the world should be happy, they can now play 4x Chrome Mox  But, I don't see the reason for restricting Vault. Ok, combined with Flame Fusillade wins the game for 5R, but nowadays Painter does that too, and it's almost always better. |
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Ulthrion
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2008, 03:55:00 am » |
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Belcher players around the world should be happy, they can now play 4x Chrome Mox But, I don't see the reason for restricting Vault. Ok, combined with Flame Fusillade wins the game for 5R, but nowadays Painter does that too, and it's almost always better. These unrestrictions seem cool. Only Chrome Mox has the potential to be overpowering. Mox Diamond might be able to fuel some Crucible deck, which can be a fun casual vintage deck. As for restricting Vault, the note said that they will be removing the power level errata, which makes it go infinte with something as simple as Voltaic Key. |
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beder
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2008, 05:30:30 am » |
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I feel like personal tutor could really see some play.
As for Gush - now restricted and not played - 4 personal tutors may provide you with a non black tutor access to some powerfull sorceries (tinker for instance).
The 4 of + the mystical may be sufficently consistent to allow new strategies. Personal tutor should not be not such a bad turn one when opening with an island (instead of generally doing nothing, now that brainstorm and ponder are restricted). Not having to fetch underground to regularly tutor turn one, may be a huge advantage.
Then, not having to splash black for its tutor power - when yawgmoth is not a key card of your mechanism - could make different strategies viable. For instance, up until now, using tinker without black tutor was really not as good as with. This could change a bit (the same for show and tell for instance).
I don't think this will radically change the metagame but I feel like some archetypes could be really interested in personal tutor, as a 4 of to replace the black ones with a strategy revolving around key sorceries (and not using black).
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forests failed you
De Stijl
Adepts
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Venerable Saint
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2008, 06:10:36 am » |
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Fact or Fiction?  |
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Grand Prix Boston 2012 Champion
Follow me on Twitter: @BrianDeMars1
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kl0wn
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 06:47:47 am » |
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Mox Diamond is no longer restricted PARFAIT RULES YOU ALL!!!1! |
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Team kl0wn: Quitting Magic since 2005?
The Fringe: R.I.P.
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reaperbong
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2008, 07:20:57 am » |
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The unrestriction of Personal Tutor just beefed up Street Wraith x10!
not that this godly card needed it....
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Restrict: Chaos Orb
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Bongo
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2008, 08:20:22 am » |
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Good decisions there!
I'm wondering why they didn't unrestrict Crop Rotation. Yeah, you could tutor for Academy, but lately even TPS stopped running Academy. Also Chalice for 1 and Wasteland are bad news. I don't see a deck that would run 4x Crop Rotation.
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NicolaeAlmighty
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 08:40:34 am » |
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Good decisions there!
I'm wondering why they didn't unrestrict Crop Rotation. Yeah, you could tutor for Academy, but lately even TPS stopped running Academy. Also Chalice for 1 and Wasteland are bad news. I don't see a deck that would run 4x Crop Rotation.
Bad idea. It isn't just about Academy you silly blue mage... Hey Stax- hows about more Strip Mines for ya? |
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"Hey, I got the bye!" shouted Probasco when he heard the Featured Match call. Menendian glared at him, and the glare only worsened when Probasco asked, "Hey Steve, how's your sister doing lately?" |
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Bongo
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2008, 09:17:00 am » |
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But would Stax really want to run 4 Crops? With 4 Welder and 4 Crops, you can't even set Chalice to 1 reliably anymore.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2008, 09:49:19 am » |
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Thumbs up! only a few cards left that could be unrestricted  Burning wish Enlightened tutor Fact or fiction Grim monolith [The card that i suggest is quite crappy in Type1] Ponder And only one of them is crap! Unfortunetly i was hoping for grim monolith to be unrestricted....but at this rate it will be unrestricted next time Hmm i wonder if FlameVault will be playable now? Infinite damage is alot better then infi mill. But time vault being restricted slows it down a bit though. Time vault/key might be playable too, but why not just kill the opponent? oh well, gotta wait and see what the oracle is going to say. /Zeus |
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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Razvan
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2008, 10:47:29 am » |
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the moment i saw this, i could imagine menendian grinning like a madman and screaming "dream halls"!
but yeah, this is kinda cool. my heart skipped a beat when i saw b/r changes, thinking bazaar or workshop might be on the list, but this is alright.
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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JanValentine00
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2008, 11:10:18 am » |
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Thumbs up! only a few cards left that could be unrestricted Burning wish I personally never want to see a deck running 5 Yawgmoth's Wills again... =================== On a seperate note, I'm glad the finally unrestricted Chrome Mox. |
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zeus-online
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2008, 12:03:12 pm » |
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Thumbs up! only a few cards left that could be unrestricted Burning wish I personally never want to see a deck running 5 Yawgmoth's Wills again... =================== On a seperate note, I'm glad the finally unrestricted Chrome Mox. Urh, long runs 1 will, 1 demonic, 2-4 grim tutor, 1 mystical tutor, 1 vampiric tutor, 1 imperial seal...and could now, potentially run 4 personal tutor to go along with it. But nevermind, i don't really want to get drawn into this discussion again. /Zeus |
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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kalisia
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2008, 12:54:20 pm » |
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WoW! I'm surprised by the unrestriction of Personal Tutor! The first target that cames to my mind is Mind's Desire.
I don't know if you now ZBS (Ze Br4in Storm), a french combo deck that grew up two years ago in France...The deck was almost totally blue and was abusing of Brain Freeze and Mind's Desire. With 4 Personal Tutors and multiples chrome/diamond moxes, this deck might be to much powerfull...Wait and see.
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Seeker
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2008, 01:41:21 pm » |
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Thumbs up! only a few cards left that could be unrestricted Burning wish I personally never want to see a deck running 5 Yawgmoth's Wills again... Okay, I'm missing something. What's the FIFTH Will? Unless you meant Will initially then Wish for it again which seems completely wrong, everything else I can see aside from Death Wish can't get a sideboard Will. |
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Akuma
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2008, 01:56:44 pm » |
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This is a step in the right direction. Thanks WotC.
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"Expect my visit when the darkness comes. The night I think is best for hiding all."
Restrictions - "It is the scrub's way out"
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2008, 03:36:52 pm » |
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Awesome! Props to Mr.Lauer for making the right moves.
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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt
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LotusHead
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Team Vacaville
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2008, 04:14:00 pm » |
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Man, the first time I ever ran Shops at a tourney was a deck called Time Bandits by Heiner Litz and it was a BLAST!
It got nerfed like 2 weeks later. Flame Fusilade might work again? Neat!
Vintage can handle broken cards, just not say, unrestricted Mox Sapphires.
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Hi-Val
Attractive and Successful
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Reinforcing your negative body image
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2008, 04:33:06 pm » |
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Thumbs up! only a few cards left that could be unrestricted Burning wish I personally never want to see a deck running 5 Yawgmoth's Wills again... Okay, I'm missing something. What's the FIFTH Will? Unless you meant Will initially then Wish for it again which seems completely wrong, everything else I can see aside from Death Wish can't get a sideboard Will. The Shining, a combo-Keeper deck from old times, did this: // Dülmen 11.05.2003 3. Carsten Kötter 1 Black Lotus 1 Grim Monolith 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Zuran Orb 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Brainstorm 1 Fact or Fiction 4 Force of Will 2 Future Sight 2 Gush 4 Mana Drain 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Power Artifact 1 Time Walk 1 Fastbond 4 Burning Wish 1 Enlightened Tutor 2 Swords to Plowshares 2 City of Brass 3 Flooded Strand 1 Library of Alexandria 2 Polluted Delta 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Tropical Island 2 Tundra 3 Underground Sea 2 Volcanic Island SB: 1 Balance SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red SB: 1 Deep Analysis SB: 3 Duress SB: 1 Innocent Blood SB: 1 Kaervek's Torch SB: 1 Mind Twist SB: 1 Primitive Justice SB: 1 Pyroclasm SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast SB: 1 Regrowth SB: 1 Vindicate |
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Team Meandeck: VOTE RON PAUL KILL YOUR PARENTS MAKE GOLD ILLEGAL Doug was really attractive to me. |
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