[Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- The Parfait Ambush!

[Namingway]

I tinkered around with this list for a bit and I found cutting cutting a Find and a Swords to Plowshares (along with swapping a Plains for a Mountain) for two copies of Blood Moon to be pretty effective. Compounding the decks mana denial goals with color denial proved to simply fold many decks. It has a similar effect to Aura of Silence in the workshop match-up and helped make Aven Mind Censor EVEN better. That said, turning top-decked Wastelands into mountains was unfortunate some times, but the symmetry was far out weighed by its power. It could easily be that Magus of the Moon is better but being able to tutor up and recur Blood Moon seems superior to me.

Why not play both? Then perhaps a list could look something like this:

Cherry Parfait

2 Mountain
9 Plains
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland

1 Black Lotus
4 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Magus of the Moon

2 Abeyance
2 Argivian Find
4 Aura of Silence
1 Balance
1 Blood Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
2 Orim's Chant
4 Scroll Rack
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Zuran Orb

SB: 2 Abeyance
SB: 2 Moat
SB: 2 Orim's Chant
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

I haven't tested the list yet, so I'm just throwing it out there for criticism and whatnot.

EDIT: Enlightened Tutor added - I must've missed that the first time.
EDIT2: -1 Magus of the Moon, -1 Plains, -1 Swords to Plowshares: +2 Argivian Find, +1 Wasteland

[benthetenor]

Argivan Find are what makes this deck work against counterspells. And also, I don't see Enlightened Tutor in your list.

[Namingway]

Question is, what to cut from that list? Maybe a Magus could go, since you'd have four Moon effects anyway, but besides that?

[Ben Kossman]

HI, couldn't this deck win in a more comboish fashion? Maybe Painter/Grindstone? Since you're running red anyway you could play pyroblast to help versus drain decks and whatnot...

[SiegeX]

Gotta say, I like the red splash as Blood Moon hits every deck sans goblins and MUC Tez (even ichorid if you can get it out in time).   However, I think 5x Blood Moons is a bit too much, I would like to see an extra wasteland or STP for one of the Magus'. 

Now that we are considering red, could a single Gathan Raiders have a home in here as a finisher?  He's hard castable and unmorphs with or without Blood Moon out.  I haven't given this deck a spin yet so I'm curious when your not powering the tax/scroll engine, how easy it is to dump your hand (or all but 1 card) when necessary? 

[Namingway]

I've updated the list I posted above to reflect the changes suggested in later posts. I'm still not sure about only having two StP:s maindeck, though. But what to cut for a third one?

Also, I don't think Gathan Raiders is optimal for this deck. Even without Land Tax/Scroll Rack, it's hard (and inadvisable) to empty your hand with this deck, since you have spells like Chant, Abeyance, StP, and Argivian Find that you want to keep in your hand until the opportune moment.

[TheOrangePet]

Great article and comments.

I'm currently running Ghost Quarter over Wastes. It has clear synergy with Mindcensor, but can also be used to control your on-board basics in a pinch to get a Tax trigger. It can even be used shuffle away your Rack'd Plains during your draw step for a fresh card. Seems good. Anyone else consider this?

[Smmenen]

I really don't see the point of Blood Moon or Magus.    Mana Drain decks have plenty of fetchlands and basic Islands.  Workshops can still use their Workshops as Mountains to play spells, as well as their Moxen.    I don't think that Blood Moon is nearly strong enough to justify adding a second color.   

[brianpk80]

I really don't see the point of Blood Moon or Magus.    Mana Drain decks have plenty of fetchlands and basic Islands.  Workshops can still use their Workshops as Mountains to play spells, as well as their Moxen.    I don't think that Blood Moon is nearly strong enough to justify adding a second color.   

"Adding a second color" to parfait basically means "adding a mountain or two" or "adding a swamp." 

The total asymmetry of the Moon effect is what makes it so compelling here.  I don't think it's really that hard to see how a deck with multiple Auras of Silence (which then limit opponent's color access via ability to destroy Moxen) benefits from a one sided Blood Moon effect.  And the red splash isn't solely for moon effects.  Red Blasts are useful and Goblin Trenches is a versatile win condition + engine enabler. 

 

[Smmenen]

I really don't see the point of Blood Moon or Magus.    Mana Drain decks have plenty of fetchlands and basic Islands.  Workshops can still use their Workshops as Mountains to play spells, as well as their Moxen.    I don't think that Blood Moon is nearly strong enough to justify adding a second color.   

"Adding a second color" to parfait basically means "adding a mountain or two" or "adding a swamp." 

The total asymmetry of the Moon effect is what makes it so compelling here.  I don't think it's really that hard to see how a deck with multiple Auras of Silence (which then limit opponent's color access via ability to destroy Moxen) benefits from a one sided Blood Moon effect.  And the red splash isn't solely for moon effects.  Red Blasts are useful and Goblin Trenches is a versatile win condition + engine enabler. 

 

There are lots of cards that are totally asymmetric, but they aren't that good.  You could just as easily splash blue and play back to basics.   It's not that Blood Moon isn't asymmetric, it's that it isn't that good. 

[TheOrangePet]

I going to have to agree with Steve here. Back to Basics is a good example of why Blood Moon isn't splashable. The existence of the other red cards can't justify a dillution of consistency here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying W/r isn't viable, because it obviously is. It just isn't optimal and I don't think anyone can reasonably play a rogue build like this without an optimal configuration.

[brianpk80]

There are lots of cards that are totally asymmetric, but they aren't that good.  You could just as easily splash blue and play back to basics.   It's not that Blood Moon isn't asymmetric, it's that it isn't that good. 

Magus of the Moon isn't good?  ...

Back to Basics allows at least one use of a dual land before shutting it down; the comparison is not apt.  Moon effects contribute to a prison effect here and help offset some of the deck's inherent weakness v. Bazaar.  The color bind on the opponent also induces her/him to lay more lands and indirectly forces Land Taxing.  What's your argument against Red Blasts again? 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying W/r isn't viable, because it obviously is. It just isn't optimal and I don't think anyone can reasonably play a rogue build like this without an optimal configuration.

I don't think the build proffered originally is anywhere near optimal.  The biggest red flag is the suite of Aven Mindcensors.  I find they are more a novel attempt to be modern than a well honed calibration of the archetype. 

[Soon-Man]

Mind Sensor basically stops tutor effects, including Trinket Mage and Tezzeret. It also works well with the Moat in the side board, being one of the only flying creatures to see play. Sure it's not a format breaking power house, but it's decent and serves it's purpose in the deck.

[Smmenen]

There are lots of cards that are totally asymmetric, but they aren't that good.  You could just as easily splash blue and play back to basics.   It's not that Blood Moon isn't asymmetric, it's that it isn't that good. 

Magus of the Moon isn't good?  ...

In the article I went to great pains to talk about the strength of this deck is not in its individual cards, but its synegies.    Check out the extensive blurbs in the article on Mindcensor.

Back to Basics allows at least one use of a dual land before shutting it down; the comparison is not apt. 

Exactly. That's very good in a deck that relies, heavily on using Aura of Silence to lock opponents out.   Back to Basics makes alot more sense in this deck than either Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon. 

Blood Moon doesn't actually shut down dual lands.  They can still tap for red.   Back to Basics shuts them down entirely, and better synergizes with the rest of the deck.

Moon effects contribute to a prison effect here and help offset some of the deck's inherent weakness v. Bazaar.  The color bind on the opponent also induces her/him to lay more lands and indirectly forces Land Taxing.  What's your argument against Red Blasts again? 

And Back to Basics does the same thing.

Red Elemental Blast is a fine card, although probably overkill with Chants and Abeyance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying W/r isn't viable, because it obviously is. It just isn't optimal and I don't think anyone can reasonably play a rogue build like this without an optimal configuration.

I don't think the build proffered originally is anywhere near optimal.  The biggest red flag is the suite of Aven Mindcensors.  I find they are more a novel attempt to be modern than a well honed calibration of the archetype. 

Aven Mindcensor is a huge bomb in the (developed) current metagame, which is defined by tutors as much as it was a year ago, where Scroll was everywhere, and two years ago, where Gifts was everywhere.  Please believe me when I say that I tuned and tuned this deck.  I didn't put it out there as a half-baked idea for others to develop as I did with Mindlock Stax.  This was a heavily tested and heavily vetted build.   I even took it for a spin again tonight to see how it fared, and it's as powerful as ever. 

[TheOrangePet]

I don't think the build proffered originally is anywhere near optimal.  The biggest red flag is the suite of Aven Mindcensors.  I find they are more a novel attempt to be modern than a well honed calibration of the archetype. 

Perhaps a build or just some highlights would help embolden your point of contention here.

I can wrap my mind around your stance, but I can't see how you can honestly knock around the power of the Mindcensor like that.

[brianpk80]

I don't think the build proffered originally is anywhere near optimal.  The biggest red flag is the suite of Aven Mindcensors.  I find they are more a novel attempt to be modern than a well honed calibration of the archetype. 

Perhaps a build or just some highlights would help embolden your point of contention here.

I can wrap my mind around your stance, but I can't see how you can honestly knock around the power of the Mindcensor like that.

If we can get away with bald statements like "Blood Moon just isn't that good," I don't see the problem with stating I find Mindcensors suboptimal.  I'm not saying they are terrible or even that they're not good.  In my experience, as a deck evolves, each component is analyzed more carefully, quantities are adjusted, and an optimal configuration emerges.  4 Avens looks like a "let's try this" rather than a "yes, this is absolutely perfect and there must be four."  Does that make sense?

I think Parfait benefits most from a red splash and from a greater concentration of instants to support an Isochron Scepter or two. 

Blood Moon doesn't actually shut down dual lands.  They can still tap for red.   Back to Basics shuts them down entirely, and better synergizes with the rest of the deck.

I think we're thinking of approaches from two different perspectives.  You are weighing it in terms of limiting mana generally, while I an considering the slot as effecting color-screw for the opponent.  It's not dependent on Aura of Silence (which is primarily a Will preemption that cleverly diversifies as removal for Druids, Vault, Animate, etc.), but it flexes the Aura towards another potential role of color denial.  Considering you've easily played thousands of games, I'm confident you're aware that they are often won by a player capitalizing on opportunities presented that are only tangential to the deck's main purpose.  There will be games won because you correctly destroy an opponent's Mox Jet when she's strapped for black mana. 

Check out the extensive blurbs in the article on Mindcensor.

I'm aware of the contributions Mindcensor brings to a landscape populated by Canonists and occasionally a Moat.  I understand that the soft locks your build contains create a cumulative headache for an opponent.  Why I would choose Moon effects over Mindcensor is because the decks targeted by Mindcensor are by and large the same that are hit by your other lock pieces & defenses (Aura, Canonist, Chant, Abeyance, Finds, Crypt, Trini--all geared towards Drain/Yawgmoth's Will/Combo).  In your Parfait shell, I would find Blood Moon to be equally as annoying as Mindcensor by all of those decks, while fortifying your defenses (and this is a defensive deck) against Fish (whose Confidants, Goyfs, and Mages usually don't stem from Swamps, Forests, and Plains), Bazaar strategies (Dragon, Ichorid), Oath of Druids (Orchard), and Stax (where turning off a Workshop, Bazaar, and Strip effects is typically stronger than preventing the tutoring that Stax almost never relies on). 

Secondly, I still don't see how Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon is not "good."  I have been losing to Blood Moons since 1996, and it's not because I'm a particularly poor deckbuilder or player.  It's just the Moon's inherent strength and game warping effect.  I rarely run the card, but every time an opponent casts it, my reaction is, "Oh F*ck."  Whether it was back in the day, playing "The Deck" and anxiously hoping to draw Mox Pearl to Disenchant it, or in modern times waiting to bounce it, it's a big thorn in any strategy.

Red Elemental Blast is a fine card, although probably overkill with Chants and Abeyance.

Very much apples & oranges.  I would really like to see enough instants to support Scepter because a recurring Chant is the most offensive play this very defensive archetype has, IMO.

Please believe me when I say that I tuned and tuned this deck.  I didn't put it out there as a half-baked idea for others to develop as I did with Mindlock Stax.  This was a heavily tested and heavily vetted build.   I even took it for a spin again tonight to see how it fared, and it's as powerful as ever.

I don't doubt your sincerity. 

[Smmenen]

From what I just read, you make good points and they are well reasoned.

I think the issue, properly framed, is this:  If Parfait is to splash a color(s), which would be the most beneficial to splash?   My suspicion is that either blue or black give this deck the best splash, not red. 

I think we're thinking of approaches from two different perspectives.  You are weighing it in terms of limiting mana generally, while I an considering the slot as effecting color-screw for the opponent.  It's not dependent on Aura of Silence (which is primarily a Will preemption that cleverly diversifies as removal for Druids, Vault, Animate, etc.),

Perhaps this is my fault.  I've sold Aura as primarily Will preemption, but it's much broader than that.   It's truly closer to Sphere of Resistance than to Disenchant.   

This deck uses the soft-lock approach of narrowing opponent's options by cutting off lines of play using Wastelands and Auras and Aven Mindcensors and the like.   In short, the strategy of the deck is not to "let's completely screw the opponent," but let's make it very difficult, but not impossible, for them to win using the boa constrictor.   Replacing cards that keep the opponent off balance for big-shot, cards like Blood Moon, which may or may not be effective, seems like a mistake to me.

More on the effectiveness of Blood Moon in a minute.

In fact, you recognize this approach and describe in eloquent terms:

  I understand that the soft locks your build contains create a cumulative headache for an opponent. 

Secondly, I still don't see how Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon is not "good."  I have been losing to Blood Moons since 1996, and it's not because I'm a particularly poor deckbuilder or player.  It's just the Moon's inherent strength and game warping effect.  I rarely run the card, but every time an opponent casts it, my reaction is, "Oh F*ck."  Whether it was back in the day, playing "The Deck" and anxiously hoping to draw Mox Pearl to Disenchant it, or in modern times waiting to bounce it, it's a big thorn in any strategy.

While it is true that people have been losing to Blood Moon for a decade, it's also true that since the printing of Fetchlands, it's value has plummeted in Vintage, along with Back to Basics, dramatically.   When I say that I don't think it's good, I mean that i don't think it helps you beat the best players, while Aven Mindcensor should.   I also don't see Blood Moon as particularly effective against Bazaar since it typically arrived a turn too late.   

More pointedly: why is Blood Moon better than Back to Basics in this deck, particularly since the latter meshes so well with the soft lock approach?

[kkoie]

I would have to agree with the anti-moon crowd.  You are already putting pressure with the strip-effects, as well as using aura of silence to really screw up artifact mana, I don't see something like blood moon giving you that much more of an advantage compared to the mono-white list.  I would have to agree that splashing either blue or black to add an element that doesn't already exist would be much more advantageous, over magus of the moon, which doesn't really add something new to the deck.

Honestly though, looking at the mono-colored list and then comparing it to color-splashed lists, I think the mono-colored list would be stronger.

[brianpk80]

I think the issue, properly framed, is this:  If Parfait is to splash a color(s), which would be the most beneficial to splash?   My suspicion is that either blue or black give this deck the best splash, not red. 

Strong arguments can be justifiably made for each color.  I would pick red.  In general, black would be strongest in a more Toolbox leaning shell, where Vamp. and possibly Demonic combine with Enlightened to bring up "silver bullet" singletons, like Humility, Chains, The Abyss, Tormod's, Trinisphere, maybe even Nether Void.  Blue expands the draw engine, which I think is pretty strong as is.  Red, particularly w. Isochron Scepter, opens up an offensive design space that in my estimation complements the limited offense quotient of white. 

More pointedly: why is Blood Moon better than Back to Basics in this deck, particularly since the latter meshes so well with the soft lock approach?

An opponent's Back to Basics is easier for me to "play around" than Blood Moon.  A single use of the color I'm looking for is often the gateway to breaking the soft lock. 

What are your thoughts on the Goblin Trenches enchantment?  Having played against a friend's r/W Parfait build many times, I found it was strong, versatile, synergic, and a better use for the Zuran Orb slot. 

[TheOrangePet]

What are your thoughts on the Goblin Trenches enchantment?  Having played against a friend's r/W Parfait build many times, I found it was strong, versatile, synergic, and a better use for the Zuran Orb slot. 

Agreed, but it does switch the purpose of the slot from defensive to offensive (barring Balance of course).

It also furthers the argument for a maindeck Crucible. Almost seems like a can-o'-worms effect. This swap seems most attractive in your proposed W/r build which is cutting half its win conditions in the form of Mindcensors.

[brianpk80]

Agreed, but it does switch the purpose of the slot from defensive to offensive (barring Balance of course).

It's a win condition.  Even the most defensive decks need at least one.

It also furthers the argument for a maindeck Crucible. Almost seems like a can-o'-worms effect. This swap seems most attractive in your proposed W/r build which is cutting half its win conditions in the form of Mindcensors.

Replacing Mindcensors with Magus of the Moon doesn't reduce the quantity of win conditions. 

[Smmenen]

Even if you can properly advance and persuade me of the argument that Magus of the Moon belongs in Parfait, it is totally another matter to say that it belongs over Aven Mindcensor.

Given the format as it stands, I simply would not cut 4 Mindcensors for 4 Magus.  First of all, Moat is a monster answer to Fish, Zoo, Tez, and Ichorid, and secondary and tertiary win conditions like DSC and ETW.  I believe that Moat should be maindeck.   Aven Mindcensor is a win condition with Moat on the table since it has the important ability "flying."   Secondly, Aven Mindcensor is an absolutely critical lock part, neutering all manner of tutor, which the best decks in the format run many of of (Tinker, DT, Mystical, Vamp), and cards like Tez and even Fetchlands, which are ubiquitous.  And even where they aren't neutered entirely, like Fetchlands, they are made vulnerable to cards like Wasteland, since there are fewer choices.   I could see cutting, maybe one Mindcensor for a Magus, but I would not cut more than that. 

[brianpk80]

Even if you can properly advance and persuade me of the argument that Magus of the Moon belongs in Parfait, it is totally another matter to say that it belongs over Aven Mindcensor.

A swap of 4 for 4 isn't what I was thinking.

Given the format as it stands, I simply would not cut 4 Mindcensors for 4 Magus.  First of all, Moat is a monster answer to Fish, Zoo, Tez, and Ichorid, and secondary and tertiary win conditions like DSC and ETW.  I believe that Moat should be maindeck. 

... But it isn't maindeck here.  No?

 Aven Mindcensor is a win condition with Moat on the table since it has the important ability "flying."   Secondly, Aven Mindcensor is an absolutely critical lock part, neutering all manner of tutor, which the best decks in the format run many of of (Tinker, DT, Mystical, Vamp), and cards like Tez and even Fetchlands, which are ubiquitous. 

Respect.  I know what Aven Mindcensor does (see above). 

I don't think this is a "bad" list by any means; rather, I think there is room for improvement.  In general, your list teeters on overextending itself with answers specifically targeted for Drain/Combo, while letting many other archetypes go comparatively unchecked.  Secondly, the Par-Fish approach makes it difficult to support Isochron Scepter and Humility and I'm not convinced the trade-off is justified. 

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Why go with a mix of Orims Chant/Abeyance main deck - why not go with 4 of one of them?  What subtle differences do you find with them.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Moat is a monster answer to Fish, Zoo, Tez, and Ichorid

Actually, it's too slow (or too easily removed) against Ichorid and a non-issue for Tezzeret.


Having finally played against this with some frequency, what exactly is it supposed to beat besides combo?

[TheOrangePet]

Having finally played against this with some frequency, what exactly is it supposed to beat besides combo?

Drains and Stax.

What are this decks best available weapons vs. U/B/W and U/B/G Fish?

Does it ever have a prayer vs. R/G or R/G/W Beatz?

[Grand Inquisitor]

Drains and Stax.

I guess Stax makes a lot of sense given the removal, basics, and tax engine, but there's been very little of that in the NE parts at least (I don't seem to see lots in other T8s either).

As for drains I don't really see it.  Also, in my conversation with the couple people playing parfait around here they've really struggled with those matchups (mostly slaver & tez).  Aven Mindcensor is a real bomb, but a basic plains is a pretty strong tell, making it easy to play around.

[Smmenen]

Drains and Stax.

I guess Stax makes a lot of sense given the removal, basics, and tax engine, but there's been very little of that in the NE parts at least (I don't seem to see lots in other T8s either).

As for drains I don't really see it.  Also, in my conversation with the couple people playing parfait around here they've really struggled with those matchups (mostly slaver & tez).  Aven Mindcensor is a real bomb, but a basic plains is a pretty strong tell, making it easy to play around.

Aven Mindcensor is not the important card in the Drain matchup.  It's Aura of Silence.   Ideally, you want to push through an early Aura of Silence and then build from there.   Use Canonists to slow the game down.  Use Scroll Rack to find answers.  Use Wastelands to nip at the margins.   Find more and play more.   You will want to tactically use Chants and Abeyances to buy time in vulnerable spots.   Aven Mindcensor is just cream.  Canonist and Aura create a nice soft lock.   Finds are used to quickly recur anything that has been countered, and Mox Diamonds are used to accellerate these cards out. 

@ GI: I would love to play you on MWS.  We could even turn our games into an article

[Mantis]

@ GI: I would love to play you on MWS.  We could even turn our games into an article

Yeah, that would be awesome! Please accept GI and make that article Steve!

[Smmenen]

At the least, it would be an interesting article.