Ad Nauseam Tendrills (Spooky Nauseam) Fun with storm.

[Vegeta2711]

What non-white creatures do you care enough about to bring in massacre against? I can't think of any.

Well Canonist can be played using Ancient Den or a Mox in UW artifact Fish for example and the creature you really have to deal with is Cursecatcher. I'm just curious  about the relevance of Massacre, because If you see 2 BUG fish lists you just got 3 dead sideboard cards on your hand and probably a big problem regarding winning matches...

Like I said before It really just depends on your meta (mine is very different)

No offense, but that's wayyyyy too narrow an example for me to care about. Web summed it up best, what non-white creatures do I care about with this deck? And BUG Fish may do fine against the deck, but that's more on discard / Null Rod than any creatures they play.

[LordHomerCat]

Also, if Cursecatcher is your problem, Chain of Vapor and even Repeal are a fine way to deal with him so you can win.  I would not bring in Massacre to try and kill cursecatchers.

[Liam-K]

I often care about Goyfs.  Your life total is precious with Naus.

I've had Voidmage Prodigy pop up and cause a headache.

Brown aggro men and metalworkers can also prove irritating.  I like Oxidize in that situation but not everyone has that in the sideboard.

[Vegeta2711]

I often care about Goyfs.  Your life total is precious with Naus.

Which is why the build / post in question features Slaughter Pact and says straight up you can roll that out against them if you need too. And the exact statement was about creatures you'd care about that massacre would be good against. -2/-2 is pretty much never going to be enough to kill a Goyf.

[Marske]

@Vegeta2711,
Non taken First of all like I said my Meta differs greatly and I barely see any other fish decks except BUG the other decks that are big over here are Workshop decks and the obv Drain decks. So with that being said I like the green splash for Oxidize, Swarms and I hardly have to worry about things like MM spoiling my games so Massacre isn't working for me the way it's working for you. I do think the slaughter pacts are a great solution to some of the problems I've also been facing (Goyf, Grunt, Cursecatcher, Cannonist) and the it doesn't even do any damage when going combo the upkeep cost is a complete joke but can strain you a bit if you need to pas the turn after killing something off (this shouldn't be a problem IMO)

I often care about Goyfs.  Your life total is precious with Naus.

I completely agree with Veggies on this... besides you can always just mini-tendrils to set up an Ad Nauseam kill if need be.

[Liam-K]

Ok, I guess I got a bit confused.  I thought by asking what non-white creatures you'd want to massacre, you were implying that sideboarding in creature kill against decks without white creatures was always an inappropriate boarding strategy, and so creature kill board slots were best reserved for massacre.  I was trying to point out holes in that arguement.

I do use slaughter pact, and I've recommended the card in this and other threads.  I don't use massacre, though, because I think it's too narrow and too painful to Nausiate.

[Marske]

First of all sorry about the time between posts but I've been real busy lately... ok so here goes....

Ok, I guess I got a bit confused.  I thought by asking what nonwhite creatures you'd want to massacre, you were implying that sideboarding in creature kill against decks without white creatures was always an inappropriate boarding strategy, and so creature kill board slots were best reserved for massacre.  I was trying to point out holes in that argument.

My Argument was just that Massacre seems to do little to nothing except against MM or Canonist (So pact seems better) because the real threat this deck faces (Curse catcher, Goyf) isn't dealt by with Massacre (for free at least).

I do use slaughter pact, and I've recommended the card in this and other threads.  I don't use massacre, though, because I think it's too narrow and too painful to Nausiate.

Which is exactly why I don't like Wumpus either... although it does give you an extra backup plan against fish / aggro decks.

[thelemite]

Hey there,

First time poster long time lurker.  I can honestly say that this is one of the more entertaining deck's i have played recently. My only sticking point is the Timetwister slot.  I have tried twister, bargain, and slaughter pact in the slot. Nothing seems to stick quite right.  Has anyone given some thought to other potential bombs in this slot?

[swawagon]

Twister 90% of the time is the right call in that slot. It's the best card to grab if you are behind. Ad Nauseam decks, via Chrome Moxes and all the other acceleration, can empty it's hand very quickly and Twister is an amazing restart.

Imperial Seal has been a little frustrating.  Imperial Seal would more likely be replaced by something than Twister, but nothing else really fills Imperial Seals role. Twister belongs...


Massacre doesn't help much against BUG Fish for a couple reasons. No plains for the alternate cost. And doesn't kill Tarmos most of the time if you can cast it. And you have to play around Cursecatcher to hardcast it. For Ad Nauseam decks BUG Fish is already a pretty bad match-up.

Wumpus is pretty good. I've not tried Slaughter Pact, but it seems fair. What I like about Thrashing Wumpus is that is deals with creatures and it is a threat that can win the game, both by attacking or Pestilencing people off. It seems clunky and can be, but in play it is usually more efficient that it appears.

[Marske]

Imperial Seal has been a little frustrating.  Imperial Seal would more likely be replaced by something than Twister, but nothing else really fills Imperial Seals role. Twister belongs...

After I cut Imperial Seal I never looked back... it seems to be to slow in this deck. It's a sorcery speed topdeck tutor in a deck that wants to win turn 1-2 which IMO doesn't fit.

Wumpus is pretty good. I've not tried Slaughter Pact, but it seems fair. What I like about Thrashing Wumpus is that is deals with creatures and it is a threat that can win the game, both by attacking or Pestilencing people off. It seems clunky and can be, but in play it is usually more efficient that it appears.

Wumpus has been good enough in testing but I haven't played this deck in a while now. Maybe it's time to do that again.

Well just my 2 cents again.

[dark burn]

I have been reading this list for a while and it is really fun to play.  I dont have a lot of time to actually test anything so reading is the easiest way for me to learn. 

Sideboarding is the hardest thing for me to get right and I was wondering if someone could do a piece on how to sideboard against the major decks.  Im thinking decks like control slaver, tez, workshop aggro, and to a lesser extent oath and stax. 

I know that everyones metagame is different, im not looking for a perfect sideboard, just what cards you would put in and take out in each matchup.  Thanks a lot guys!

[Marske]

I have been reading this list for a while and it is really fun to play.  I dont have a lot of time to actually test anything so reading is the easiest way for me to learn.

Guess I must say thank you. I take this as a compliment.

Sideboarding is the hardest thing for me to get right and I was wondering if someone could do a piece on how to sideboard against the major decks.  Im thinking decks like control slaver, tez, workshop aggro, and to a lesser extent oath and stax.

I'll try and post a little "howto" sideboard with this deck. I have been real busy as of late which is one of the reasons this topic has seen so little activity, but the new year has brought me more spare time.

[neverlookback]

Hey guys I was wondering if someone could post an updated list for me to possibly play this weekend, I would appreciate it

[Marske]

@Neverlookback,

Hey guys I was wondering if someone could post an updated list for me to possibly play this weekend, I would appreciate it

Not that I don't want to help you out but...

Whats wrong with the most recent list found in this topic ? Why not just tweak that to your liking and create a board suited for your metagame ? With all that being said I'm still running my original list -2 thoughtseize +1 Necro and +1 Twister and I've fitted in a Ponder also Vegeta's list looks pretty solid as well. If you need help with your list just PM me. Also I'm very curious about your results with the deck.

[Troy_Costisick]

Hey guys I was wondering if someone could post an updated list for me to possibly play this weekend, I would appreciate it

Check out Stephen's article on the 2009 preview: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16958_So_Many_Insane_Plays_The_2009_Players_Guide_to_Vintage.html

Peace,

-Troy

[Marske]

@Troy,
No offense man but not everybody has got premium so I'm not sure if this is really helping him out all that much. Besides either he A) has premium and wants another list then mentioned in the SSG article or B) he hasn't got it and is asking for a list here. But this is a little off topic ranting.