[Free Article] So Many Insane Plays - Crazy Stax!

[TracerBullet]

Regarding my comment. I'm making the assertion that the deck choice is going to be within tolerable limits and not some terrible BG void deck from 2001.

Regarding your comment. I'd put my money on the good player every time. Even in type 1 where broken openings trump everything, in the end, skill takes it home. It's not even close in my mind.

The hate.  The hate.





As to the deck, after doing a little playtesting with it, it feels underpowered, short on mid-game draw and in definite trouble if they can deal with your first two threats.

[MadManiac21]

So there is no confusion this time, please do not post the decklist in this premium article in this thread. 

If someone would ignore this and post a list that would be swell. The fact is in the past this has REPEATEDLY been hashed out on posting parts of your articles, and the consensus has always been that posting the list was not only beyond acceptable, but preferable in order to spurn further conversation and theory.

I'm really surprised you would say the above Steve.

[Smmenen]

So there is no confusion this time, please do not post the decklist in this premium article in this thread. 

If someone would ignore this and post a list that would be swell. The fact is in the past this has REPEATEDLY been hashed out on posting parts of your articles, and the consensus has always been that posting the list was not only beyond acceptable, but preferable in order to spurn further conversation and theory.

I'm really surprised you would say the above Steve.

I suppose it does deserve an explanation beyond a reason to incentivize the purchase of premium (only a couple of bucks folks!). 

Generally, it leads to questions from people who haven't read the article when the answers to those questions are already answered, sometimes exhaustively in the article.   The Parfait thread is a case in point, as is the Ad Nauseam discussion.   With the controversy in this thread already, I think my fear is well founded.   

Sometimes, I will post lists though.   Just not always. 

As to the deck, after doing a little playtesting with it, it feels underpowered, short on mid-game draw and in definite trouble if they can deal with your first two threats.

LOL, isn't that Stax generally?  No, I take your point and tend to agree.  That's why, at the end, I was moving towards cutting the Chalices for 2Spheres.   Shops + Island can then power out turn two Master E. 

[benthetenor]

Calling me Flores is just an easy, facially ambiguous (yet clear in meaning) way of attacking me in a subterranean manner.  You can go ahead and call me Flores if you would like, but such a claim deserves greater scrutiny than a bald assertion that I share similar traits.   State what those traits are and support your statements with facts rather than veiled attacks and name-calling. 

I don't know if I'd say that calling you Flores is clear in meaning. You allude to it as some sort of attack, whereas I've always liked MichaelJ. Sure, he makes bad plays from time to time, but he was also an incredible innovator and had untold impact on the formats that he touched. In fact, while most pros (and regular readers of SCG alike) hate his play, they all love him, to the best of my knowledge. I think you're less likely to succumb to little errors, but I think your impact is comparable. People tend to listen to you when you say something. How is that an attack, again?

I will second the guy who said that reading about Parfait and Crazy Stax has reinvigorated my interest in Vintage and in Magic in general, but honestly, I think it's just this new set, in concert with last few changes to the B/R list. But I much prefer a Parfait article to a TPS one, even though I've always been a rabid combo player.

[nataz]

I'm pretty sure this has been hashed out. The lists are public even if the article is not. People *should* buy premi thou. Its wicked cheap, and you get a lot of interesting information. Maybe posting a list will spur some actual discussion instead of just people bitching and moaning.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Courier's Capsule
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
4 Mindlock Orb
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere

Artifact Creatures
4 Master Of Etherium

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection

Sorceries
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
 

Artifact Lands
4 Seat Of The Synod

Basic Lands
4 Island

Lands
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
2 Academy Ruins
1 Tolarian Academy
 Sideboard:

2 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sower Of Temptation
4 Propaganda
3 Echoing Truth

This deck reminds me of the old stacker/GWS "raining men"/ etc., decks. Figure prison elements + aggro. I like the whole FOW + workshop thing, I think we can all agree that the idea is powerful, but smokestax + master? I realize you needed master to get the blue count up, but even excluding that I don't like juggs either. If you go the aggro prison route, why not shove in tangle wires instead of smokies? They work well with workshop, and buy you time to get your guys on the ground. You still keep your FOW to defend from artifact hate + you can still run prison elements out early with out haveing to constantly bait FOW turn 1.

OTOH, if you keep the smoke stax, why do you need the ground pounders. If you want to end the game quickly, why not Tinker -> DSC with something stupid like 4x personal tutors + mystical to find it?

[Smmenen]

Maybe posting a list will spur some actual discussion instead of just people bitching and moaning.

/Stephen exeunt stage left....

[nataz]

um, whatever, I'm pretty sure you just proved my point. This thread is 2 pages long, and the only discussion about the decklist has been a couple of paragraphs about capsule. Turbo Tinker + prison, or looking at IRM, or even looking at Jeff Carpenter's FOW/AggroControl artifact deck in comparison to yours would all make interesting discussion.

At least it would be better then talking about how/why you write.

seriously, do you really need a hug or something in order to just talk about your deck?

-or-

Are you not allowed to talk about your deck by SCG on TMD?

[vartemis]

I'm pretty sure this has been hashed out. The lists are public even if the article is not.

Where is the list on SCG?  There is nothing in the database right now when you do a search.  I thought they removed the premium decklists from the database.

j

[JACO]

Turbo Tinker + prison, or looking at IRM, or even looking at Jeff Carpenter's FOW/AggroControl artifact deck in comparison to yours would all make interesting discussion.

At least it would be better then talking about how/why you write.

seriously, do you really need a hug or something in order to just talk about your deck?

-or-

Are you not allowed to talk about your deck by SCG on TMD?

He's allowed to talk about his decks anywhere, but he wanted this thread to remain decklist free for two reasons.
1) To have an incentive for people to buy SCG Premium, so (understandably) there is a market for his services, so he will continue to get paid to write by SCG. Steve is the only consistent Vintage writer available at the moment.
2) To prevent useless discussion about decklist issues that are already addressed in the article. This happens in thread after thread about his articles. I see this even WITH people who have Premium, and who simply glossed over explanations and go straight for the decklist. Steve's articles are usually long, thought out, and well explained, with reasoning for many card, deck, or strategy choices.

You posting a decklist to 'spur discussion,' not testing the deck at all, and then posting something like your quote below demonstrate exactly what he is hoping to avoid.

I like the whole FOW + workshop thing, I think we can all agree that the idea is powerful, but smokestax + master? I realize you needed master to get the blue count up, but even excluding that I don't like juggs either. If you go the aggro prison route, why not shove in tangle wires instead of smokies? They work well with workshop, and buy you time to get your guys on the ground. You still keep your FOW to defend from artifact hate + you can still run prison elements out early with out haveing to constantly bait FOW turn 1.

OTOH, if you keep the smoke stax, why do you need the ground pounders. If you want to end the game quickly, why not Tinker -> DSC with something stupid like 4x personal tutors + mystical to find it?

Really? You want to add 4 Personal Tutors and Mystical Tutor, when Chalice for 1 is one of the strongest plays the deck can easily make?

Somewhere around 2006 and 2007 I started just writing about whatever it was I was playing, taking a lot less chances.  My tournament performance became more consistent as a result, but it meant less innovation. 

So, I took that criticism to heart.  Instead of just playing it “safe” and writing about the decks that I planned to play in tournament, I decided to try to innovate.   Some of those decks I’ve written about, such as Tezzeret, Ad Nauseam, Parfait, and Mindlock Stax.   Others, some failed innovations, I have not written about.

I would rather read articles that bring new technology and ideas to the forefront, rather than a 5 part primer on whatever deck you're playing. But perhaps you can do relevant technology pieces as well as shorter/less exhaustive articles on one subject (say a 2 or 3 part article). I think you should just write whatever you would want to read, if you were a Vintage player who wasn't writing. Think of yourself as a DJ. You probably tend to have better taste in music (or Vintage decks and strategy) than most people, so lead the pack by just being yourself and writing about whatever you think is relevant and cool.

[gabbalost]

Maybe you missed the fact that decks I've written about in the last month and a half have not only made top 8s, but they've won tournaments.  My mono blue Tez list won the last ICBM open, and my Ad Nauseam list made top 8 yesterday.   

Which decks are you talking about? Nauseam? Tezzeret? You are talking about cards that are broken and cards that anyone can exploit. It's like I autoproclame my person the creator of tolarian deck or survival-nightmare or affinity.

[LordHomerCat]

Maybe you missed the fact that decks I've written about in the last month and a half have not only made top 8s, but they've won tournaments.  My mono blue Tez list won the last ICBM open, and my Ad Nauseam list made top 8 yesterday.   

Which decks are you talking about? Nauseam? Tezzeret? You are talking about cards that are broken and cards that anyone can exploit. It's like I autoproclame my person the creator of tolarian deck or survival-nightmare or affinity.

Except, Steve is not taking credit for the fact that some deck with Tezzeret in it did well.  He is however taking credit when HIS TEZZ LIST or his Ad Naus list are the ones doing well.  If Dan Carp wins the ICBM open playing the list straight from Steve's article, you can hardly fault Steve for taking credit for creating that list?  It's a pretty big difference compared to just taking credit for every card in vintage, which no one here is trying to do.

[nataz]

Jaco, seriously? Why don't you and steve take it down a notch.

Chalice for 1 is a great play, but more often I was looking at chalice @ 0 on the first turn + an additional threat. And I'd say the most potent setting is at 2 overall. With the loss of brainstorm in the format, and blue decks not auto-running 4x brainstorm, 4x ponder, chalice at 1 lost a significant amount of umph. Even steve says something similar IN HIS ARTICLE. Plus, its not like stax never ran welders + chalice, or if you remember the older GWS chalice Oath lists running them out even though brainstorm was hugely important. 

And I think my questions are valid. Steve's goal was workshop + FOW, and while he came up with some interesting lists, I think it was a mistake to go step 1) workshop + force, step 2 trini, step 3 Juggs and stax. I think by starting the list with an aggro and a prison element, with out picking either one to focus on was a mistake.

If you are looking at Juggs in a Brown + X color deck, the standard choice in the past has been tangle wire, NOT stax. Master is used as a functional equivelent after he needed to up the blue card. I want to know why steve went with smoke stax, a card that costs 4 mana, and does nothing to your oppoent for 4 turns (t1 -> play, t2 opp, t3 -> counter #1, t4 -> opp sacs), as opposed to the prison element that becomes active turn 2 (t1 -> play, t2 -> opp taps). Plus, look at the metagame right now, drains are huge with tezz, which means its a great time to look at wire in an artifact based deck.   

The idea of turbo tinker comes from old 5 color lists which ran the black tutors to fetch strip, balance, whatever. While we don't have the same kind of threat density or diversity in a mono U build, is stax with tutors that far off the map that its "useless" to even consider.

I really love blue artifacts, there is a lot of unexplored space here. Does anyone want to talk about it, or is this really going to be a threat about steve (whom I am an avid fan of article wise)?

P.S.,

Just running the idea out there, what about twister to refill your hand after you dump it? It gets stronger in a personal tutor deck (perhaps with top to smooth draws instead of capsule?) adding a third broken sorcery to get in addition to walk and tinker, but even without it may have merit. Think of this less like a traditional stax deck, and more like the old meandeck slaver lists that ran lotus twister, and FOW back in 2003/2004. Power out large artifacts with lotus and workshop (mainly mindslaver at the time), and protect with pitch magic. Draw 7's are terrible in traditional stax because twister cleans your gy and refills the other guys hand while you then pass the turn able to do nothing. But here you don't rely on your gy, and you can interact on their turn, not to mention use your mana ramping abilities to possibly lay down more threats.

P.P.S

oh man, this is such a cool design space. Workshop = unrest black lotus AND you get FOW now. Sheesh. Steve, you shouldn't leave the discussion because you feel hated on. Drop the chip on the shoulder and participate. This is coming from someone who pays every year to pretty much read your articles. The other stuff is just background and color commentary for someone who only dabbles in other formats.

[Smmenen]

I assure you, there is no chip on my shoulder.  If I have something valuable to add to the discussion, I will.   

[RJ]

Jaco, seriously? Why don't you and steve take it down a notch.

Chalice for 1 is a great play, but more often I was looking at chalice @ 0 on the first turn + an additional threat. And I'd say the most potent setting is at 2 overall. With the loss of brainstorm in the format, and blue decks not auto-running 4x brainstorm, 4x ponder, chalice at 1 lost a significant amount of umph. Even steve says something similar IN HIS ARTICLE. Plus, its not like stax never ran welders + chalice, or if you remember the older GWS chalice Oath lists running them out even though brainstorm was hugely important. 

And I think my questions are valid. Steve's goal was workshop + FOW, and while he came up with some interesting lists, I think it was a mistake to go step 1) workshop + force, step 2 trini, step 3 Juggs and stax. I think by starting the list with an aggro and a prison element, with out picking either one to focus on was a mistake.

If you are looking at Juggs in a Brown + X color deck, the standard choice in the past has been tangle wire, NOT stax. Master is used as a functional equivelent after he needed to up the blue card. I want to know why steve went with smoke stax, a card that costs 4 mana, and does nothing to your oppoent for 4 turns (t1 -> play, t2 opp, t3 -> counter #1, t4 -> opp sacs), as opposed to the prison element that becomes active turn 2 (t1 -> play, t2 -> opp taps). Plus, look at the metagame right now, drains are huge with tezz, which means its a great time to look at wire in an artifact based deck.   

The idea of turbo tinker comes from old 5 color lists which ran the black tutors to fetch strip, balance, whatever. While we don't have the same kind of threat density or diversity in a mono U build, is stax with tutors that far off the map that its "useless" to even consider.

I really love blue artifacts, there is a lot of unexplored space here. Does anyone want to talk about it, or is this really going to be a threat about steve (whom I am an avid fan of article wise)?

P.S.,

Just running the idea out there, what about twister to refill your hand after you dump it? It gets stronger in a personal tutor deck (perhaps with top to smooth draws instead of capsule?) adding a third broken sorcery to get in addition to walk and tinker, but even without it may have merit. Think of this less like a traditional stax deck, and more like the old meandeck slaver lists that ran lotus twister, and FOW back in 2003/2004. Power out large artifacts with lotus and workshop (mainly mindslaver at the time), and protect with pitch magic. Draw 7's are terrible in traditional stax because twister cleans your gy and refills the other guys hand while you then pass the turn able to do nothing. But here you don't rely on your gy, and you can interact on their turn, not to mention use your mana ramping abilities to possibly lay down more threats.

P.P.S

oh man, this is such a cool design space. Workshop = unrest black lotus AND you get FOW now. Sheesh. Steve, you shouldn't leave the discussion because you feel hated on. Drop the chip on the shoulder and participate. This is coming from someone who pays every year to pretty much read your articles. The other stuff is just background and color commentary for someone who only dabbles in other formats.

I've been playing this deck for almost 2 years so I will address some of your ideas. 

You are right, chalice for 1 is not as strong as it used to be, however it is still your best play against combo, which is making up a decent portion of the metagame.  In reality, it is almost your only out in that match-up with the list as is. 

The second point you make is a misconception that I think a lot of people share.  By adding enough creatures you aren't choosing aggro, you are just adding a decent clock to the deck.  Because people are prepared for stax, the window you have to win the game is actually pretty small once you wrestle control.  Having enough creatures has always been tough to balance since you needed blue cards as well.  I even used Sarcomite Myr when it came out because it filled the role that Master now takes. 

As for Wire being standard, I don't know about that, but it is an odd omission.  I think that both have their merits.  Stack is a much better turn 1 play.  This may be the goal for him is to play something on turn 1 that threatens board position.  This list only has 4 creatures, so multiple wires are not as useful as they are in a deck with 16 creatures.  He'll have to answer that one for you.  Personally, I have played Blue stax lists with both and consider wire an auto include if you have Stack and Academy Ruins, since an ever recycling Tangle wire is no good for your opponent.

Once again stack is strong, but there are downsides.  They normally aren't very good topdecks.  They don't do anything for a while.  They don't do anything productive without Crucible.  These have been beaten to death.  There is merit to them though in blue stax lists.  My thought being, if the stax player can control which spells resolve to a degree the stack can be most damaging.  This is true.  That being said I really like Wire in the metagame right now. 

Well the turbo tinker idea is one that is interesting, but in the end it is only one threat.  Good drain players will see that and then wait on you.  Besides you can't tutor with Mindlock out and can't play tinker with two out so the deck would need to function differently to include this strategy. 

Twister is awesome to refill and would definitely play it if there was room.  You don't have much draw in a list like this so the cards need to be powerful.  Twister gets rid of dead counters and extra locks so I think it is definitely one of those cards that you would like to play.  This is metagame dependant though, since if the room is full of combo, you don't want to go around twistering too much.

Hope this helped some.

[Bill Copes]

I think this list can benefit from a couple copies of Karn, Silver Golemn - cleans up enemy moxes if you're on the draw, quickens the clock by making 4/4 mindlocks + stax and also gives this deck a chance in hell against ichorid, game 1.

Although they pump the Masters, are the artifact lands really worth it?  Null Rod would utterly rape almost half of the mana base.

29 mana sources seems like a lot.  I think a couple of sources can be cut for some more design space.

Would this deck benefit from a merchant scroll and a maindeck bounce spell? (just realized mindlock shuts this off)

Keep writing stax articles and you may buy another premium customer 

[arctic79]

Isn't hate great?
 Just an outside perspective here with no allegiance to any writer/"innovator" but to me it seems that despite all the talk about innovation in Vintage is exactly that...talk.  The most true innovation we have had in the last while is Painter/Grindstone and TEZ.decs, outside of that we are seeing the same old decks and lists with minor changes and calling it new or different, and honestly it gets old fast.  I am glad to see the last few ventures you have taken are more innovative.

And one point to Steve about being the object of such maliciousness is that in your articles and your posts here you come across as a little pompous (I don't know you so I can say if you truely are or not) in your writing.  Don't take it the wrong way but that is the way you come across.  

[Smmenen]

Let me clear the air on that one.  My writing style and tone in no way reflects my actual personality.   

In actual reality I'm an total, unrepentant, anti-social, unbearable ass.      Ok, so maybe only to ex-gfs, but still!  They will tell you!

[arctic79]

Exactly my point Steve.  Like I said I don't know you, and neither does the majority of your readership.  The only impression they get of you is what they feel in your writing. 
I don't know if you caught the whole Joes Vs. Pros debate last winter on one of the other sites forums but it was sparked by the attitude of guys in the supposed upper echelons and their behaviour towards the rest of the M:tg community (96%), and a lot of that was based on interpretation of the articles and and forums posts by these supposed Pros. 
It would seem to me that you are a victim of similar circumstances.

[Smmenen]

I think this list can benefit from a couple copies of Karn, Silver Golemn - cleans up enemy moxes if you're on the draw, quickens the clock by making 4/4 mindlocks + stax and also gives this deck a chance in hell against ichorid, game 1.

Although they pump the Masters, are the artifact lands really worth it?  Null Rod would utterly rape almost half of the mana base.

This is true, and something I talked about in the article.  It also makes the deck even more vulnerable to Energy Flux. 

[Vegeta2711]

Isn't hate great?
 Just an outside perspective here with no allegiance to any writer/"innovator" but to me it seems that despite all the talk about innovation in Vintage is exactly that...talk.  The most true innovation we have had in the last while is Painter/Grindstone and TEZ.decs, outside of that we are seeing the same old decks and lists with minor changes and calling it new or different, and honestly it gets old fast.  I am glad to see the last few ventures you have taken are more innovative.

And one point to Steve about being the object of such maliciousness is that in your articles and your posts here you come across as a little pompous (I don't know you so I can say if you truely are or not) in your writing.  Don't take it the wrong way but that is the way you come across. 

Actually I'll go further and say the last real innovation that wasn't blatantly obvious after a few weeks was Manaless Ichorid.

[arctic79]

Touche

[Zieby]

I believe that real innovating doesn't happen with new sets that are coming out, the reason is that the whole Vintage community is watching the spoilers for the few cards that can be broken in Vintagedecks. Those cards are (for players that know the format) always self explaining in why they are good.

Painter --> Just a Mana Drain deck with a different Kill Condition.
Tezz --> Just a Mana Drain deck with a different Kill Condition.
Dredge --> I know for my self that the minute I saw the ability I was thinking about Ichorid and Asshen Ghoul, but had not the time to work on the deck.
TPS --> Old European list where 3 brainstorms are replaced with 2 Grim Tutors and 1 Ponder.
Ad Nauseam --> Storm the settings of the deck needs to be found but we all knew that it was broken.
Dragon Oath --> Oath with a new Kill

It is not the idea's that make a strategy new, but the player that can put that idea in a deck and make it work so he can play with it at the top table's.
The group of Vinatge players is not really large but we all communicate with each other trough the internet so the world is small and ideas are everywhere.
The last real innovation I saw in the past month's/year was Mono U with Mystic Rummora and Tyrant (Complete new draw engine that was never used in the last 2/3 years for as far as I know)and maybe Next level Doomsday (D-day was not new but was never used with the Gush-bond engine).

At this moment I believe that there are many strategies strong or Tier 1 (TPS, CS, BUG, Tezz, MUD, BUW Fish, ANT(Ad Nauseam Tendrils), Oath, Ichorid, Goblins, RG beats and many more) that it depends on which player plays the deck and tweaks it to his satisfaction so he can make the Top tables.

It is very hard to be a real innovater in Vintage because the new cards that can be used from each new set are so small that it almost always is a tweak or a better kill condition.

We should thank the people that present new lists with the cards everybody is thinking of that it can be good, this way the discusion starts and we can work slowly to an optimal list with each other. That's why its good there are 2 topics about ANT and it is nice to see that Steve presents this deck and Parfait so discusion can start and people can begin with their personnel tweaks.

I believe that making the deck work and the little tweaks are the things that differs a normal player with the innovater. the first 50 cards are always easy, the next 5/8 are a little harder and but the last 5/2 are the most difficult spots in a deck to make it work.

Don't get me Wrong, Innovating is a important thing in deckbuilding and happens al the time, only I see innovating as tweaking those last 5 cards in a list so you can make it work for you in a tournament. And please don't shoot the people who are trying new strategies and cards but help them to optimize their decks.

Just my thoughts,

Greetz Arjan

[arctic79]

@Zieby

Your point of view is exactly why Vintage is somewhat stagnent.  Tweaking is not innovating.  Innovating is coming up with a deck that wins but isn't like the decks of old.  Sure there are loose shells that can be altered to fit a desired win condition albeit combo or control, but when was the last time a Vintage "Innovator" sat down with cards "A" through "M" that are unknown in Vintage and said I'm going to build a winning deck with these that no one has ever seen.
There are many cards that can fit the criteria for Vintage but never get the nod because no one thinks outside of the box, and when mentioned the cards or theory are shot down so fast they never have a chance.  Don't get me wrong I play top tier decks most of the time, because of time constraints I can build a deck by memory in about 10 minutes, but if I had the time like I used to I would be trying different decks (good or bad) every chance I had.
Anywho I think I'm dragging this off topic so I'll stop here.

[LordHomerCat]

@Zieby

Your point of view is exactly why Vintage is somewhat stagnent.  Tweaking is not innovating.  Innovating is coming up with a deck that wins but isn't like the decks of old.  Sure there are loose shells that can be altered to fit a desired win condition albeit combo or control, but when was the last time a Vintage "Innovator" sat down with cards "A" through "M" that are unknown in Vintage and said I'm going to build a winning deck with these that no one has ever seen.
There are many cards that can fit the criteria for Vintage but never get the nod because no one thinks outside of the box, and when mentioned the cards or theory are shot down so fast they never have a chance.  Don't get me wrong I play top tier decks most of the time, because of time constraints I can build a deck by memory in about 10 minutes, but if I had the time like I used to I would be trying different decks (good or bad) every chance I had.
Anywho I think I'm dragging this off topic so I'll stop here.

The thing is, most of those "cards A through M" are unplayable.  I could try and make some control deck and run Counterspell or something instead of Mana Drain, but there's no reason.  If you're going to play a blue deck, you include these X Cards.  If you're playing a combo deck, same thing.  If you're playing a 2-card combo, is it better than Painter-Grindstone or Helm-Leyline?  Better than Tendrils?  You can complain all you want that no one plays decks that are full of 'unknown' cards, but that is because once you pick a color, there are a lot of cards that are just plain better than everything else in magic.  Why wouldn't you play with them?  That Parfait deck is a terrific example of the extremely rare deck that can play unplayed cards, because it doesn't run any of the good colors so there aren't enough white autoincludes.  Mindlock Stax decks play a number of cards that never see Shop play (like FoW) but, in there, are really exciting.  This is as innovative as it will get in Vintage, because almost every deck you can try and build is just worse than the top decks, especially if you purposefully try to avoid using vintage mainstay cards.  They are mainstays for a reason.

For some good examples of how picking random cards and expecting them to live up to the Vintage metagame, just browse the Improvement forum.  It is littered with awkward combo decks and decks built around cards which are just flat out worse than what the top Vintage decks already play with. 

[Son of Serra]

Steve,  I really enjoyed your article. Your articles make buying Premium continually worth it, reporting two things I like:

1. Hard numbers on what is working and what is not
2. Innovations in deck design as they develop

Among whatever else you are, you are a reporter of Vintage news, keeping busy professionals like myself up to date by providing condensed, relevant material. I enjoy reading what you find relevant and interesting and would be unable to stay competetive in Vintage without your weekly articles.

Please continue doing what makes you happy in your writing.

[xycsoscyx]

Interesting deck, but it seems like it would keep falling short a bit.  You're trying to be aggro while going for the total lock, but it seems like it's missing in the middle.  Smokestack is obviously strong, but takes a whole turn to be active (and potentially more to be useful), the problem with that in this list is that you have nothing to keep the tempo up while Smokestack becomes useful.  Wasting a turn to cast Smokestack (without additional disruption in place or in hand to cast as well) is like giving your opponent a Time Walk since it's not going to affect anything until at least next turn.  This deck seems like it wants to disrupt and take advantage to swing in, which means Tanglewires and Resistors would be more useful than Smokestack and even Mindlock.  Lowering the count of blue cards would invalidate FoW/MisD a bit, but it seems like it could run Mana Drain instead (which can also help to power out more pieces AND to protect itself).  It'd probably require more blue sources (more Mox Diamond perhaps), but it seems viable (along with better card drawing like Thirst).

The biggest problem would be that it's no longer a Mindlock deck, but I just don't think this is the right shell for Mindlock Orb.  It's a harder lock piece when (in this deck) you really just want to disrupt your opponent for long enough to swing a few times (since, like you said, Master should be a good enough size to be a quick clock when you get him down).  In a true Mindlock deck, things like Resistors would help increase the power by forcing opponents to waste their draw spells looking for real lands since their fetches are now useless.  In this deck, Mindlock Orb just seems like a cute trick to annoy the opponent a bit without putting too much pressure on them (since, with GAT gone, manabases are slowly becoming more and more stable again).

[never]

  This deck seems like it wants to disrupt and take advantage to swing in, which means Tanglewires and Resistors would be more useful than Smokestack and even Mindlock. 

The deck does run 4 Chalice, 4 Force of Will/2 Misdirection,  and 1 Trinisphere. Those cards immediately interact with your opponent.

On top of that, both Crucible and Mindlock have the potential to immediately interact.

I get what you're saying that maybe those cards aren't enough, but it also depends on what deck you're playing against and if you can consistently drop threats that actively disrupt your opponent.

What matchups do you feel Tanglewire is more important?

[arctic79]

@LordHomerCat

I totally agree that certain cards in certain colours are better than others and yes I acknowledge there is a lot of crap out there that can't compete in vintage.  I also want to thank you for proving my point on cards being playable or not by the way you discounted them so quickly.  I think maybe the proper designation for these cards is: not playable yet.  Honestly how playable was Protean Hulk till a combo became available with him.  He was a trash rare until Flash was fixed.  Actually come to think of it, outside of a few staples Flash ran a lot of unconventional cards, hell Merchant Scroll was sub-par till Flash and Gush/Bond hit the scene.

[IthilanorStPete]

@LordHomerCat

I totally agree that certain cards in certain colours are better than others and yes I acknowledge there is a lot of crap out there that can't compete in vintage.  I also want to thank you for proving my point on cards being playable or not by the way you discounted them so quickly.  I think maybe the proper designation for these cards is: not playable yet.  Honestly how playable was Protean Hulk till a combo became available with him.  He was a trash rare until Flash was fixed.  Actually come to think of it, outside of a few staples Flash ran a lot of unconventional cards, hell Merchant Scroll was sub-par till Flash and Gush/Bond hit the scene.

Nitpick: Scroll was being used before then, in Meandeck Gifts among others.

[Oath of Happy]

Let me clear the air on that one.  My writing style and tone in no way reflects my actual personality.   

In actual reality I'm an total, unrepentant, anti-social, unbearable ass.      Ok, so maybe only to ex-gfs, but still!  They will tell you!

You mean only to ex-bfs? Also, ive tested my decks vs smennens posted decks card for card and i hope i can play against them in a tournament because the suck.  I can see posting a basic frame for people to start with and get a general idea of a deck, like the parfait deck...that was good.  But serriously, smennen does well in some tourneys cuz theres not many good players left, and i doubt he would actually play the pieces of shit that he posts. Wooo go *inovation* isnt that word so cool?!?!

Full Warning for violation of Rule 2, Inflammatory Posting.  Because of your other rules violations, additional consequences may follow.  -DA