Scholar's Weekly Vintage Results Thread

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

How about last week's?

[Eastman]

I'll be there with a few others tonight. 

[ELD]

   
Rank   Name
  1   Jesse Martin
  2   Steve Houdlette
  3   Barry Everson
  4   Nick Vallas
  5   Duncan Devlin
  6   Matt Macauley
  7   Andy Farias
  8   David Lawrence
  9   Bill Rosa
 10   Robbie Connolly
 11   Dan Cunningham
 12   Chris Roberts
 13   Eric Dupuis

[Grand Inquisitor]

1   Steve Houdlette
 2   Jesse Martin

Fixed that for ya 

This was my first time to Scholars; I was very impressed.  I've known for some time that Eric runs good events, but the local player base is really competitive.  I'll be trying to make this from Boston more often in the future.

(Oh, and my games against Jesse were top notch, very close)

[ELD]

   
Rank   Name
  1   Dan Cunningham
  2   Chris Roberts
  3   Eric Dupuis
  4   Blaine Christiansen
  5   Matt Macauley
  6   Scott Bluementhal
  7   Taylor Nottage
  8   Bill Rosa
  9   Mike Chambers
 10   Nick Vallas
 11   Duncan Devlin
 12   Robbie Connolly
 13   Andy Farias

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

1 Chris Roberts
2 Dan Cunningham

We split, but agreed we would play for the "title".  I won the match 2-0. Not bad with little to no sleep after I drove all 15 hours back from Gencon overnight and getting back this morning at 9am. Lol

[marriedwithchildren]

1 Chris Roberts
2 Dan Cunningham

We split, but agreed we would play for the "title".  I won the match 2-0. Not bad with little to no sleep after I drove all 15 hours back from Gencon overnight and getting back this morning at 9am. Lol

What deck did you play?  Did you play in the Vintage event at GenCon?  Was it the same deck?

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

What deck did you play?  Did you play in the Vintage event at GenCon?  Was it the same deck?

Ichorid. Yes. Yes.

You won't find me in top 16. I went 2-2 and then played myself right outta match 5.

[ELD]

   
Rank   Name
  1   Dan Cunningham Vault Key Tez
  2   Bill Rosa UB Homebrew Vault Key
  3   Stefan Elsworth - David Ochoa Tez
  4   Dave Lawrence Vault Key Tez
  5   Jesse Martin Vault Key Tez
  6   Nick Vallas GW Aggro
  7   Chris Roberts Ichorid
  8   Eric Dupuis Vault Key Tez
  9   Matt Macauley WUB StifleMaskNought
 10   Jack Soohoo UW Fish
 11   Mike Chambers White Weenie
 12   Robbie Connolly Goblins
 13   Duncan Devlin Sulluvin Solution
 14   Andy Farias RG Stax
 15   Taylor Nottage Vault Key Tez

[Implacable]

   
Rank   Name
  1   Dan Cunningham Vault Key Tez
  2   Bill Rosa UB Homebrew Vault Key
  3   Stefan Elsworth - David Ochoa Tez
  4   Dave Lawrence Vault Key Tez
  5   Jesse Martin Vault Key Tez

People aren't metagaming properly, or the metagame is effed.

[T00L]

   
Rank   Name
  1   Dan Cunningham Vault Key Tez
  2   Bill Rosa UB Homebrew Vault Key
  3   Stefan Ellsworth - David Ochoa Tez
  4   Dave Lawrence Vault Key Tez
  5   Jesse Martin Vault Key Tez

People aren't metagaming properly, or the metagame is effed.

or the best players play tez

[Grand Inquisitor]

People aren't metagaming properly, or the metagame is effed.

6   GW Aggro
7   Ichorid
10   UW Fish
12   Goblins
13   Sulluvin Solution
14   RG Stax

Yeah, exactly what metagame deck is missing here?

[honestabe]

   
Rank   Name
 15   Taylor Nottage Vault Key Tez

   
Rank   Name
  1   Dan Cunningham Vault Key Tez
  2   Bill Rosa UB Homebrew Vault Key
  3   Stefan Ellsworth - David Ochoa Tez
  4   Dave Lawrence Vault Key Tez
  5   Jesse Martin Vault Key Tez

People aren't metagaming properly, or the metagame is effed.

or the best players play tez

or the worst

[waywreth]

I think it's reached the point that you play key/vault or you lose to it.  This will be further illustrated when ELD posts the results from the recent Lotus event - 7 of the top 8 had key/vault, as did the entire top 4.

[Implacable]

6   GW Aggro
7   Ichorid
10   UW Fish
12   Goblins
13   Sulluvin Solution
14   RG Stax

Yeah, exactly what metagame deck is missing here?

GI, that's exactly my point; the decks 'designed' to beat Tezzeret are still at the bottom of the standings.  So either they're misbuilt and misplayed, or there's something wrong with Tez (in relation to the rest of the metagame, which could be fixed via unrestrictions, or some other action).

[Eastman]

Yah the bob Tezz lists own this meta. I think they're more Busted now than they were with TFK, here's why: tfk is worse against mana denial strategies than bob, but bob lost the mirror to tfk so all the tezz lists were stuck running tfk, leaving them more vulnerable to good hate/fish etc. Now tfk is restricted so losing the mirror b/c of bob isn't an issue. You run bob as draw and he also happens to be just about the best answer to mana denial around. Leaving tezz decks overall better off against the field than before. 

[Grand Inquisitor]

I misunderstood you earlier.  Yeah, the metagame is effed.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

GI, that's exactly my point; the decks 'designed' to beat Tezzeret are still at the bottom of the standings.  So either they're misbuilt and misplayed...

That first point seems a little disrespecting. Especially since I'm one of those people and secondly Nick, who won The Mana Clash, is another.  

As much as I hate Vault/Key, I tend to disagree that it's unbeatable. I took first last week over a few tezzeret decks. I even beat Dan's version in round 4 last week. He took 1st this week though, so I can see how strong it is though. It's the ridiculious "oops I win" that's killing the format. I played 2 games yesterday where I set up the next turn win, just to pass and them go: land, mox, sol ring, vault  key or the like.   Also just by looking back at this thread you can also see that g/w aggro has taken it a few times, as has Goblins. I should mention too that the r/g stax list top 8'd the Lotus event last Saturday.  

I do on the other hand hate it enough, that I wish they'd do something more about it.

End rant I guess//

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

HUGE thanks to Eric, for getting EVERY placing, name and deck type posted up this week. That's truely amazing and greatly appreciated by all, I'm sure.

[Troy_Costisick]

6   GW Aggro
7   Ichorid
10   UW Fish
12   Goblins
13   Sulluvin Solution
14   RG Stax

Yeah, exactly what metagame deck is missing here?

GI, that's exactly my point; the decks 'designed' to beat Tezzeret are still at the bottom of the standings.  So either they're misbuilt and misplayed, or there's something wrong with Tez (in relation to the rest of the metagame, which could be fixed via unrestrictions, or some other action).

You're drawing an awfully large conclusion about "the rest of the metagame" from a single 15 man tournament, especially considering two larger tournaments have been won since June by Rod decks and another by Ichorid if I'm not mistaken.

Peace,

-Troy

[FadeToBlack]

The truth is that good players don't want to run the less powerful decks, even if they are a good "meta-call." Good players will assume that they will be able to outplay their inferior opponents in the mirror, and just win against everyone else, as worse players are running the trashy decks. People can stick up for Null Rods and other piles all they want, but hell will probably freeze over before ELD, Rich Shay, and other players of similar stature or anyone else will actually want to play with them before Mana Drains. I'm sure people will point out the few examples were good players have broken down to play something else...but I'm sure thats largely an exception.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

Rich Shay took 1st with Elves! a few months back

[The Atog Lord]

In all fairness, that wasn't a metagame hate deck at all. It didn't have any disruption except for a single Viridian Shaman. It was a swift combo deck that could shift into an aggro deck when that failed. It didn't try to win matches by hating out the opponent.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

I was referring alone to the fact that you didn't play a drain deck and did very well. I wasn't thinking at all that it was some sort of metagame call.

[T00L]

Yah the bob Tezz lists own this meta. I think they're more Busted now than they were with TFK, here's why: tfk is worse against mana denial strategies than bob, but bob lost the mirror to tfk so all the tezz lists were stuck running tfk, leaving them more vulnerable to good hate/fish etc. Now tfk is restricted so losing the mirror b/c of bob isn't an issue. You run bob as draw and he also happens to be just about the best answer to mana denial around. Leaving tezz decks overall better off against the field than before. 

The thing that is so funny to me about this whole situation is that wizards keeps restricting things trying to nerf tez and they just keep accidently making things worse. I'm pretty sure the only way out at this point is to print a new card that interacts with key vault. I don't think there is much they can do short of banning time vault or reerrating it and we've already been told that they will not reerrata time vault or ban anything.

[HungryHungryHeifer]

Personally, I think people should just say eff the meta and play things like squirrel...

What fun is there in just randomly accidentally winning turn one or turn two? And do people really feel accomplished by doing that? I don't. Now when I get infinite squirrels, however, I know I have done well. And I actually have a good time. Go figure. Maybe this is why I can never be a serious vintage player. I'm probably better off. Good luck to the rest of you with dealing with vault/key.

[DiviningTop3]

Personally, I think people should just say eff the meta and play things like squirrel...

While I realise Heather was joking, there's actually a valid point hidden in there.  She played a deck she loved, it didnt win but she tried anyway.  We all told her just to play a winning deck, but she stuck with what she loved, she never got bitter about loosing, because she didnt play to win she played for fun.  She didnt ask for lotus to banned to give squirrels a chance, or errat yawg's will to say "play 1 card from your graveyard".  Arent all these people who complain about tezz, really just playing squirrels but lacking the good sportsmanship of our dear heather? really, if you dont play tezz, you might as well be playing squirrels, after all, both ichorid and squirrels have about an equal chance of beating tezz.  You cant look down on decks weaker then yours as being foolish and stupid, and then look down on decks better than yours as broken and stupid.  If the criteria for banning a card is "that card beats my deck, but i love my deck and wish it would win" then people would have a field day banning every vintage card until all that was left was squirrels.  I commend you heather, your good attitude in the face of better decks is an example to all who dont play tezz.  I would also put this challenge out to the non-tezz player.  If tezz is such an easy win, play it and see how you do.  You might find that while it can occasionally give a blow out turn 1, it takes considerably more skill to make it win consistently than you may initially think.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

realize*

I think your sad attempt at starting an arguement is unnecessary. We don't need this thread shut down, so please keep it related to the results. I'm sure there's a section on TMD for generalizing every deck other than Tezzeret as Squirrels.   

[DiviningTop3]

realize*

I think your sad attempt at starting an arguement is unnecessary.

Actually I was attempting to deal with all the hate on tezzeret in a nonconfrontational way by not replying to a tezz hater directly (I do feel the phrase "sad attempt" attempts an argument however).  There is a lot implied and direct digs at tezz players as well as non tezz players.  Saying people without a tezz deck who lost must not know what they're doing, not only offends the non-tezz player (you were justified earlier in finding that comment insulting) it also offends the tezz player by implying they can only beat somoene who doesnt know what they're doing.

I feel Heather made an excellent point, but since it was in the form of a joke it may not have been taken so seriously.  I wanted to expand on it.  Thanks again heather, both for your happy spirit during the game, and your fun way of expressing things.

[Juggernaut GO]

I think there was a joke a while back:

Restrict everything until landstill is the best deck, then restrict standstill.

Something along those lines.

There will always be a best deck no matter what, just sad that vault/key has to be in every single one of them from this point on.