T1 Event - Philly Area - 15 Proxy - 1/3/09 - Workshop/Bazaar

[dark burn]

Mike has run 26 vintage events over the past 3 years.  He is obviously doing something right.  In the past 2 events he has run, which I have been to both, he has made approxmately 0 dollars total.  At the december event he lost about 500 dollars due the poor attendance and huge prize he offered.  Then, in the Jan. event he made about 500 dollars.  Wow he is raking in the dough.  Why does everyone expect T.O.s increase prizes when the player numbers increase but it is almost unacceptable to decrease prizes when player numbers are low?

The talk about E.V. making people not show up is a very poor argument.  The only time you can calculate E.V. is after the tourny is over and you have all the numbers to work with.  When you plan ahead to attend do you go through the different possible numbers of people and calculate different E.V.s for each scenario?

At the lotus event he ran, he did increase the price.  The next few tournys were also higher than usual.  I did wonder at this but you have to look at everything going on at the time.  The US economy went down the tubes and everyone was hurting for money.  He did raise prices, and probably made a little bit more than he would other wise, but he was definately not raking in cash then either.  The economy is now a little better, at least gas prices are down, and Mike dropped the entrance fee of the tourny.

Remember the huge event that Nick Coss ran in Philly for the lotus?  I was there and it was a great event at a great venue.  I also know that he did not get nearly the amount of people he expected, he might have lost money on the event overall.  If he were to run the event again, would he do the same thing and hope the turn out was better this time?  Would he run it a 3d time and then hope to recoup his losses? How bout a 4th or 5th event?  I doubt it, not because he doesnt want to or is a bad T.O., he just wouldnt be able to absorb that much lost revenue.  The event would have to change for it to be sucessful. 

This is the exact same thing that Mike has been doing.  He has worked hard over the past 3 years to have an event consistently every 2 months and he has done a great job of it.  I always hear people complaining about prizes even though they are told weeks in advanced what they will be playing for and the said prizes are always given out!!!!  At Mike's lotus event he got a record number of players and upped his prize support about 400 dollars.  He couldn't at this last event because he was trying to break even in the long run. 

The best way to make sure there is a consistent and good prize is to have the turn-out be consistent. Why was there a difference of 20 people between the two events?  Where did everyone go and why did they all come back?

[Smmenen]

Also, I don't mind a TO making money. I do kind of mind them making more money than the prize support they give out.

I also disagree with this.   TO's have a right to get a decent rate of return for their time/space/overhead, etc.   

TO's should be able ot make as much money as they can, but the players also have to feel that the tournament prize structure was fair.

[ashiXIII]

Also, I don't mind a TO making money. I do kind of mind them making more money than the prize support they give out.

I also disagree with this.   TO's have a right to get a decent rate of return for their time/space/overhead, etc.   

TO's should be able ot make as much money as they can, but the players also have to feel that the tournament prize structure was fair.

Okay, I feel less than 50% of the money taken from the entry fees isn't fair.

[MISTERTREK]

Also, I don't mind a TO making money. I do kind of mind them making more money than the prize support they give out.

I also disagree with this.   TO's have a right to get a decent rate of return for their time/space/overhead, etc.   

TO's should be able ot make as much money as they can, but the players also have to feel that the tournament prize structure was fair.

Okay, I feel less than 50% of the money taken from the entry fees isn't fair.

Ok, so where is everyone's beef on the last event? 20(entry fee)(there was 1 comp but that was my choice) x 52(players) = 1040 -200(workshop) -175(bazaar) -100(3rd & 4th) - 40(5th thru 8th table credit) -48(5th thru 8th draft sets)(563 total) = 477

I do try to work around the 50% area for prize payout. I really hope that everyone doesn't feel that I'm a mean old Scrooge and trying to be the Sham-Wow sales guy by pulling a fast one and not treating my players fair. I'm just trying to run a fun, competative event, make a few bucks, and make a lot of friends! And, Nick and a few others can tell you that each event can be a crap shoot, and there is alot of behind the scene work and preperation for each event.

[ashiXIII]

Also, I don't mind a TO making money. I do kind of mind them making more money than the prize support they give out.

I also disagree with this.   TO's have a right to get a decent rate of return for their time/space/overhead, etc.   

TO's should be able ot make as much money as they can, but the players also have to feel that the tournament prize structure was fair.

Okay, I feel less than 50% of the money taken from the entry fees isn't fair.

Ok, so where is everyone's beef on the last event? 20(entry fee)(there was 1 comp but that was my choice) x 52(players) = 1040 -200(workshop) -175(bazaar) -100(3rd & 4th) - 40(5th thru 8th table credit) -48(5th thru 8th draft sets)(563 total) = 477

I do try to work around the 50% area for prize payout. I really hope that everyone doesn't feel that I'm a mean old Scrooge and trying to be the Sham-Wow sales guy by pulling a fast one and not treating my players fair. I'm just trying to run a fun, competative event, make a few bucks, and make a lot of friends! And, Nick and a few others can tell you that each event can be a crap shoot, and there is alot of behind the scene work and preperation for each event.

I wasn't even there, so I personally have no beef, y0.

[Changster]

Mike,

No beef here. 

I believe that you are doing a great service to our community for hosting such events.  With so many people questioning the fun-factor of Vintage these days, how can one seriously deny that something right is happening in Blue Bell, PA of all places.  You drew 52 friendly yet competitive players after a relatively small investment for prize support.  I think it's pretty clear that there were players at this tournament, like me, who were not there to win the money, but to simply hang out with vintage players new and old.  The amount of fun I get to experience at each of these tournaments eases any loss dealt during the day. 

Thanks again for continually hosting these great tournaments and I really encourage others to attend these fun events!

[Nehptis]

I echo the Changster.  Please keep up the good work.  Personally without the Vintage BB scene I think my MTG days would be over.  I'm not able to drive to Pitt or NJ events at this point in my life.  So, BB events are fun, competitive and I believe balanced in fees and prizes.