New Bomberman Thread

[swawagon]

I ran Balance in 3 colors when there 2 black Tutors to help find it. I don't in just UW because it couldn't be searched for in my UW build I'm running more creatures (Mindsencor). Balance was a mixed bag. It was best used as a Wrath of God against creatures. Which isn't that amazing. Bomberman often has a fairly high land count against the rest of the field to the Armageddon affect is usually pretty minimal. And drawing cards is another thing Bomber-man tries to do so the Mindtwist affect is swingy too. If you have the card in hand early certainly you can create a situation where Balance in amazing. But it is situational. And it is not proactive nor a win condition. And not a great topdeck (usually). Sometimes Balance is a great out, other times bounce or countless other things would be better. Balance is great, but it takes time to set up to maximize it's strength and I don't think Vintage right now has a ton of inherent set up available. Tough call.

[John Jones]

I have never played with bomberman, however I can say that the deck is very very versatile. I still do not know how to board against it fully because you can't really hurt its win conditions.

As for balance, I have only played balance in a U/W/B Keeper style deck with moats and exalteds. I found that balance is very good but only if you can have it on hand. I think that it is a great card but right now in the meta its only meh.

[hitman]

I have never played with bomberman, however I can say that the deck is very very versatile. I still do not know how to board against it fully because you can't really hurt its win conditions.

You attack all Mana Drain decks fundamentally when you attack the mana, most notably the Moxes.  Cards like Gorilla Shaman are exceptional at beating Mana Drain decks.  You rarely want to attack a deck's win conditions.  By the time a Vintage deck has reached the point where they're casting win conditions, you've lost your chance to interact, in general.  You need to attack any deck on a fundamental level and that level for Mana Drain decks is mana.  The more mana you cut off, the more lines of play are cut off. 

Traditionally, Red Elemental Blast has been used to great effect against Mana Drain decks because it's more mana efficient and it also forces interaction that cuts off the ability for a Drain deck to get that Drain mana in the first place. 

My philosophy about Magic, in general, is that there is nothing better than mana.  Busted mana is better than busted card advantage.  The more mana you have, the more lines of play are open because those cards in your hand are usable.  That's why the best card ever printed is Black Lotus.

[LotusHead]

I just noticed this dude on MTG.com's Magic Arcana.  It's a possible win condition for Bomberman (that gets around Chalice for 1).

I've run Dimir Guildmage in Bomberman (my teammate won a Sapphire with it), and have no problem with dropping some black splash.

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

Anyone else consider this dude?

Pre-emptive Edit: I just noticed the pay 1 mana part.  Still, if no Null Rod, Pithing Needle or Chalice for 0, it wins!

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I just noticed this dude on MTG.com's Magic Arcana.  It's a possible win condition for Bomberman (that gets around Chalice for 1).

I've run Dimir Guildmage in Bomberman (my teammate won a Sapphire with it), and have no problem with dropping some black splash.

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

Anyone else consider this dude?

Pre-emptive Edit: I just noticed the pay 1 mana part.  Still, if no Null Rod, Pithing Needle or Chalice for 0, it wins!

Isn't it a triggered ability though? I was under the impression that activated abilities are cost: effect. It should still work through Null Rod and Pithing Needle. Then again they would probably name Salvagers with Needle and Rod stops Lotus anyways lol. Still not terrible since it is still a 3/3 body that basically lets you cast tendrils for 0 storm with Salvagers if they lock you out with Chalice while you smash face. Pretty much right up bomberman's alley to finally have its win condition slapped on to a body.

[nineisnoone]

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

How does this win around Chalice @ 0?

I run Lodestone Bauble over Aether Spellbomb which gets around Chalice @ 1.  (And allows me to actually run Chalice @ 1)

[Duncan]

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

How does this win around Chalice @ 0?

Playing Lotus into the chalice and recur it with salvagers to play it again. It is quite slow, but note the eventually word he used.

[XdeckX]

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

How does this win around Chalice @ 0?

Playing Lotus into the chalice and recur it with salvagers to play it again. It is quite slow, but note the eventually word he used.

Might be me but with Chalice @ 0 Lotus never comes into or leaves play. It just goes straight to the graveyard from the stack. It will not trigger the Strider that way.

[Duncan]

If Chalice for 0 and 1 are down, this guy (with Salvager) could let you play and recure Lotus and still win eventually.

How does this win around Chalice @ 0?

Playing Lotus into the chalice and recur it with salvagers to play it again. It is quite slow, but note the eventually word he used.

Might be me but with Chalice @ 0 Lotus never comes into or leaves play. It just goes straight to the graveyard from the stack. It will not trigger the Strider that way.

True, for some reason I thought it still left play..

[LotusHead]

I was mistaken. My bad!

Anywasy, I've faced Chalice for 1 while running bomberman (my opponent wanted to shut off kill, stop Brainstorms (unrestricted at the time) and so forth.  When I dropped Dimir Guildmage, I was able to combo off through the Chalice for 1.  I figure this guy could do something similar (even if he costs more to play). The more I look at him, the more he sucks.

[nineisnoone]

You might to consider Sigil of Distinction over Dimir Guildmage.  It would require an attack step though, but on the plus it is tutorable via Trinket Mage. On the minus, it doesn't pitch to FoW and it needs to be in hand rather than in play.  On the plus side, it can be a quick answer to 'Goyf or sometimes even a DSC.

[honestabe]

Has anyone tried Vendilion Clique in the deck?  It seems like an interesting alternative/addition to Aven Mindcensor.

Yeah, but it doesn't do what Mindcensor does, which is shut down all tutors, Gifts, intuition, tinker, as well as help against extirpate, all of which are absolute STAPLES of vintage decks

[Aekhold]

The whole discussion about additional situative winconditions is absolutely nonsense.
If you run the configuration of 2 Salvagers/3 Censors/3-4 Trinket Mages +TinkerDSC, you need none of these gimmicks
IF you run more than the 1 Echoing Truth. (My list runs 3 Repeals or 2 Repeals 1 Truth)
Chalice was never a huge threat for me, EE and Repeal handle it very efficently.

Another thing I'd like to mention:
Inkwell Leviathan should find it's place in our Sideboards?

[nineisnoone]

I would actually main it over DSC.  Since you are running creatures, removal (or at least bounce) is a much better choice against you in general.

[Anusien]

Has anyone tried Vendilion Clique in the deck?  It seems like an interesting alternative/addition to Aven Mindcensor.

Yeah, but it doesn't do what Mindcensor does, which is shut down all tutors, Gifts, intuition, tinker, as well as help against extirpate, all of which are absolute STAPLES of vintage decks

Yes, I know they have different text.  But is Clique you, taking your Gifts Ungiven significantly different from play Mindcensor in response?  Clique has a much bigger clock, which is attractive to me.

By the way, I don't think you're vulnerable to Chalice @ 1 anymore, more like Chalice @ 0.  If they play Chalice @ 0, I'd much rather have an extra guy that I can cast (1WUB is a bit rough for the deck) like a Trinket Mage who just happens to dig up EE as well....

I tried Inkwell Leviathan, but the deck runs 4 TfK and I'm uncomfortable how unable you are to pitch it.

[honestabe]

Has anyone tried Vendilion Clique in the deck?  It seems like an interesting alternative/addition to Aven Mindcensor.

Yeah, but it doesn't do what Mindcensor does, which is shut down all tutors, Gifts, intuition, tinker, as well as help against extirpate, all of which are absolute STAPLES of vintage decks

Yes, I know they have different text.  But is Clique you, taking your Gifts Ungiven significantly different from play Mindcensor in response?  Clique has a much bigger clock, which is attractive to me.

By the way, I don't think you're vulnerable to Chalice @ 1 anymore, more like Chalice @ 0.  If they play Chalice @ 0, I'd much rather have an extra guy that I can cast (1WUB is a bit rough for the deck) like a Trinket Mage who just happens to dig up EE as well....

I tried Inkwell Leviathan, but the deck runs 4 TfK and I'm uncomfortable how unable you are to pitch it.

Inky Pitches nicely to TfK, as well as FoW, which DSC doesn't

[nineisnoone]

Has anyone tried Vendilion Clique in the deck?  It seems like an interesting alternative/addition to Aven Mindcensor.

Yeah, but it doesn't do what Mindcensor does, which is shut down all tutors, Gifts, intuition, tinker, as well as help against extirpate, all of which are absolute STAPLES of vintage decks

Yes, I know they have different text.  But is Clique you, taking your Gifts Ungiven significantly different from play Mindcensor in response?  Clique has a much bigger clock, which is attractive to me.

By the way, I don't think you're vulnerable to Chalice @ 1 anymore, more like Chalice @ 0.  If they play Chalice @ 0, I'd much rather have an extra guy that I can cast (1WUB is a bit rough for the deck) like a Trinket Mage who just happens to dig up EE as well....

I tried Inkwell Leviathan, but the deck runs 4 TfK and I'm uncomfortable how unable you are to pitch it.

Inky Pitches nicely to TfK, as well as FoW, which DSC doesn't

I believe he is referring to the fact that once he pitches it to TFK, he can't tutor it with Tinker anymore, which IMO is the main drawback on Inky.

[Aekhold]

I definately agree to Anusien's point here. I feel very uncomfortable if I had to play Leviathan MD.
Most decks play 0-3 MD answers to a fatty like DSC, so I want to abuse it's reshuffle ability with TfK and just have a bigger beater.
I play the Inkwell in the sideboard to exchange it with DSC in mostly every matchup, it just has these 'Oh hello!' surprise wins.

@Clique:
I tested it some time ago and I think it's just inferior to Mindcensor, the slightly faster clock doesn't justify it's inclusion over Censor.
The thing is, that you want to be the reactive part vs. tutor-heavy decks and many broken spells can be played in response to Clique's trigger.
Censor is just a gamebreaker vs. Tezzeret and some other decks, Clique is just a bad thoughtseize-effect on legs.

CyA
Aekhold

[honestabe]

I definately agree to Anusien's point here. I feel very uncomfortable if I had to play Leviathan MD.
Most decks play 0-3 MD answers to a fatty like DSC, so I want to abuse it's reshuffle ability with TfK and just have a bigger beater.
I play the Inkwell in the sideboard to exchange it with DSC in mostly every matchup, it just has these 'Oh hello!' surprise wins.

Makes sense.

Now that Tezz is the biggest deck, you're probably safe maindecking a DSC over Inky, where as if a heavy removal deck such as fish were more common, I'd have to say Inky.