Progenitus Oath

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

obviously, ponder is not brainstorm, we understand that, and you need to get over it. ponder defeats duress by keeping key cards (via the arangemnt of the top 3 cards) out of your hand till the turn the turn you plan to use them. This takes a minimal amount of planing.

I think you're stretching the qualities of Ponder a little too far in claiming it defeats Duress somehow.  The best thing about Ponder is that it smooths out land draws and can get you mana sources when you need them.  If you see a good card you need in the top 3 of your deck, you're going to put it on top- plain and simple.  You're not going to put it two cards down because you think your opponent might somehow cast Duress next turn.  Sure, you'll arange the cards in the order that best suits your mana curve, but defeating Duress is hardly a factor in deciding how to stack the top three.

i'm not claiming it always all the time beats duress, but it can be used to defeat duress. But yeah as we've mention it also smooths out land draws and get you the mana you want, much like brainstorm. Obviously you don't draw a key card if your not going to use it when you opponant is playing duress, its a simple and correct play to make. Simply put, ponder can keep you from losing to duress, much like top, except cheaper, blue, and null rod proof.

[mistervader]

I've played Progenitus Oath last Sunday, and other than Tezz and outright bad luck, I had a pretty good run. This deck just ate up the combo decks I ran into because of Chalice, although I'm thinking if I can go 4-2 with Chalice/Rod to aid my Tezz matchup.

The deck has a lot of potential. Even if it can only go as fast as Angel Oath half the time (vis-a-vis Dragon+Angel Oath), the actual numbers are definitely less than half. Holding Sphinx in hand can honestly be quite a boon because it guarantees Prog shows up first. TFK tosses Sphinx into the yard to be Blessed back, while Prog being tossed by TFK comes back into the deck. Some little synergies here and there really help the deck get the preferred order of creatures going down, but more often than not, when played on Turn 1 with FOW backup, the extra turn is simply irrelevant since you use the next three turns with Oath in play Duressing, Negating, et al.

[Tha Gunslinga]

So are you saying there's any advantage to playing the Progenitus/Sphinx as opposed to the Angel/Hellkite?

[stu55]

Why kill in 3 turns when you can kill in 2 with Angel/Hellkite

[M.Solymossy]

Why kill in 3 turns when you can kill in 2 with Angel/Hellkite

Last I checked, 8 + (8+6) = 20.     
Even 6 + (6+8) should do it, if they fetched or forced, since your Forbidden Orchard can fire-breath your guy.

[Negator13]

Not sure what you're trying to say there, Soly.

[policehq]

Why kill in 3 turns when you can kill in 2 with Angel/Hellkite

Last I checked, 8 + (8+6) = 20.     
Even 6 + (6+8) should do it, if they fetched or forced, since your Forbidden Orchard can fire-breath your guy.

The latter actually equals to 20, so both are enough to kill an opponent, and both allow for Orchard Fire-breathing.

But... what are you trying to say?

[mistervader]

The advantage of Progenitus vs. Angel/Hellkite? Well, for one, in my fish-infested meta, they can't STP or bounce him.

For another, TFK has lovely synergy with Prog and Sphinx. This is something I miss from Angel Oath. TFK, at the moment, seems to be better for me than Impulse because of the card advantage it can generate if you pitch an Artifact.

The cost of potentially winning a turn later than Angel Oath is well mitigated by a more powerful draw engine in TFK (than Impulse), and untargetability for Progenitus.