[Single Card Discussion] Master Transmuter

[BruiZar]

I think the card is most similar to this one:



Pros:
Doesn't cause  to tap
Can target an opponent's Mishra's Factory, Darksteel Colossus and hoses workshop aggro

Cons: Arcum is printed at  .
You have to sacrifice an artifact creature to do so.



Master Transmuter
Pros:
Can be paid for with shop mana.
Also, Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox are now unrestricted giving you more sources to generate blue mana from in the first turn. (potentially going shop, mox, MT with force backup, before your opponent has Drain mana online)
Can bounce itself in the face of artifact hate or rebs or extremely shitty situations where you have to block goyfs and bounce to stay alive
Can recurr come into play effects  / leaves play effects the same way welder can
Can power out cards from your hand the way metalworker can powerout artifacts from hand
(Can also do a slaver lock with an extra MT+Sharuum+Slaver, or 2x Sharuum+Slaver)
Pitches to FoW
Can be tinkered to power out a dead tinker target in hand.

Cons
Still 4 mana of which one colored.
Reb kills it when tapped out
Still 4 mana of which one colored

I believe the place of Master Transmuter lies somewhere in the middle of Metalworker and Goblin Welder. Metal Worker brings expensive artifacts in the game from hand, whereas welder cheats artifacts into play in exchange for another artifact without it actually being cast and without it being in your hand.

Master Transmuter does the job that both Metalworker and Goblin Welder do, but it's just as expensive as both (  vs  ). I think we can all agree on the fact that the effect is broken, but the prohibitive mana cost will decide its role in vintage.

[nineisnoone]

Are you fucking remotely serious with this comparison? Do you realize how far you had to stretch that to even come close to having it equal the drawback here?

WHOA.  How about you calm down?  This is [Single Card Discussion] Master Transmuter not... you know... the fight against cancer or something.

I think people are being fantastically difficult about this.  It is a Workshop card.  If you are even disscussing the card in any other context, they you are just being irrational.  And no one is saying it is the next Tinker.  We're not even saying it is the next Goblin Welder.  All we are saying is "hey, it's a good card, and is worthwhile to place in a deck."  Do you scream to high heaven when people run Thoughtcast?  Counterbalance?  Savannah Lions?  Those cards aren't exactly "better than Goblin Welder."  Nor are they tearing up the format.  But nonetheless they do see play.

I mean seriously....

No one is discussing the card in a non-Workshop build (at least no one rational).

In hand is better than graveyard (for obvious reasons).  Seeing as how things like "Sundering Titan" don't just magically end up in the graveyard without help.  Yet they do end up in your hand without help.

Welder additionally loses to Darkblast, Threads of Disloyalty, Chalice @ 1, EE set @ 1, Tormod's Crypt, and Relic of Progenitus.

And Transmuter obviously lets you reuse Artifacts.  Though it depending on the artifact... It lets you reuse  some of them twice as quickly as Welder. 

Way too slow for vintage. Gets hated out by Null Rod. Stick with Tinker and tutors.

A card needs to be better than Tinker, tutors, and not be beaten by Null Rod to be playable in Vintage?  What Vintage format do you play?

[Purple Hat]

It's an artifact - it can pitch to TfK. Likewise, it can be put into play by Workshops. It can be Tinkered, heck it can be Transmuted.

I think that's the most interesting point I've seen in this discussion so far from a deck building stand point.  There have been various "serious" attempts to play Transmute artifact decks in the past.  UU and workshops don't tend to play well together.  this card COULD do something in that vein by allowing you to cheat cheap artifacts into play if they get into your hand or you can't find a transmute.  Is it the best card ever?  of course not, could I see someone realistically building a mono U workshop toolbox deck that worked?  Yeah, it could happen.  If it did, this card would probably be an important part of that.

[Smmenen]

And yes Steve, I said that about Ad Nauseum, mostly due to the insane hype around a card that really isn't all that good. I certainly don't see Ad Naus smashing shit up all over, but maybe that's just me.

There is a wide chasm between "smashing shit up all over" and "really isn't all that good."    Ad Nauseam certainly falls somewhere in between, and is certainly better than Future Sight.   Alot better.   In any case, I'm puzzled as why you feel compelled to speak in hyperbole when you feel that people are "hyping" something.  So what?   

[Godder]

Full Warnings to Vegeta2711 and sWoRdFiSh`for inflammatory posting and Verbal Warnings to Webster and RJ for spam.

I have unlocked the thread, but we will take a very dim view of any more flames or other worthless posts in here. Everyone participating in this thread has been warned.

[serracollector]

I think this card is very nice.  No its not super cheap, but its an artifact, and its blue, possibly the 2 most powerful types of cards played in magic, and its ability is amazing.  Look at all the cards that interact with it:

Voltaic Key (multiple uses)
Tolarian Academy
MetalWorker (counts as +2 mana in ur hand)
Workshop
Any fatty you want fast (duplicant, trisk, tetravus, w/e)
the new Etherium Master and Sculptor (making it cheaper and boost master)
Instant sculpting steel ( I like this a lot, copy any artifact on the board at instant speed for 1 blue?  Sounds good to me)
Tezzeret (gives you multiple uses by untapping for free and can be searched for with him)
Pitches to FoW, MisD, CommanDeer, TfK, and is welderable if you want two colors

Also I am sure there is some kind of combination where u can bounce multiple mana making artifacts (sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, grim monolith, heck even basalt monolith) using some means to untap the Transmuter infinitely getting infinite mana.  Just can't think of what other card out there could do this atm, but sure there is one.

This card has MANY possibilities I think even at its high CC due to its efficiency with so many other cards already out there it has a high viability of being used in several differnt decks, or possibly its own arch type.

[urweak]

In a blue artifact deck this would be nuts. Just imagine 2 Spheres and 2 Thorns or 4 Spheres or whatever out. You could play anything else for 1 blue while your opponents paying x+4.

Heres a list off the top of my head.


Mishra's Workshop x4            
Tolarian Academy x1            
Wasteland   x4            
Strip Mine x1            
Island x6            
Brainstorm   x1         
Ponder x1         
Ancestral Recall x1         
Sphere of Resistance x4         
Thorn of Amethyst x4         
Mox Sapphire x1         
Black Lotus    x1         
Mox Jet x1         
Mox Ruby x1         
Mox Emerald x1         
Mox Pearl x1         
Time Vault x1         
Voltaic Key x1         
Mindlock Orb x2         
Tangle Wire x3         
Force of Will x4         
Mana Drain   2         
Crucible of Worlds x2         
Master Transmuter x4      
Darksteel Colossus x1      
Platinum Angel x1      
Master of Etherium x4      
Sharding Sphinx x2   

[BruiZar]

In a blue artifact deck this would be nuts. Just imagine 2 Spheres and 2 Thorns or 4 Spheres or whatever out. You could play anything else for 1 blue while your opponents paying x+4.

Heres a list off the top of my head.


Mishra's Workshop x4            
Tolarian Academy x1            
Wasteland   x4            
Strip Mine x1            
Island x6            
Brainstorm   x1         
Ponder x1         
Ancestral Recall x1         
Sphere of Resistance x4         
Thorn of Amethyst x4         
Mox Sapphire x1         
Black Lotus    x1         
Mox Jet x1         
Mox Ruby x1         
Mox Emerald x1         
Mox Pearl x1         
Time Vault x1         
Voltaic Key x1         
Mindlock Orb x2         
Tangle Wire x3         
Force of Will x4         
Mana Drain   2         
Crucible of Worlds x2         
Master Transmuter x4      
Darksteel Colossus x1      
Platinum Angel x1      
Master of Etherium x4      
Sharding Sphinx x2   

I think I would go about it differently.

Using so many spheres would only make it harder to find vault and key. Use tinker + transmutes to fetch your combo components and use Seat of the Synod / Mox Diamond to get consistent Mana Drain / Transmute Mana up on the first turn. Also, you forgot Trinisphere, Trisk/Duplicant/Sundering Titan. I think Master of Etherium and Sharding Sphinx are redundant. Mindlock Orb in response to a tutor is nice and bouncing mindlock orb to pitch for FoW is a cool trick as.

[urweak]

I think I would go about it differently.

Using so many spheres would only make it harder to find vault and key. Use tinker + transmutes to fetch your combo components and use Seat of the Synod / Mox Diamond to get consistent Mana Drain / Transmute Mana up on the first turn. Also, you forgot Trinisphere, Trisk/Duplicant/Sundering Titan. I think Master of Etherium and Sharding Sphinx are redundant. Mindlock Orb in response to a tutor is nice and bouncing mindlock orb to pitch for FoW is a cool trick as.

Yea, like i said it was off the top of my head. But those suggestions might be better for this deck, I some how left out tinker, and think the deck needs more then 1 voltic key. Sharding Sphinx was added with the idea that i could bounce the tokens to play stuff, however something like Triskelavus might be better. I personally dont play shop decks, but this this new cards is really nice, and will changed shop decks. Now the deck just needs an answer to Null Rod/Hurkyl's Recall/Energy Flux or whatever else.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Yea, like i said it was off the top of my head. But those suggestions might be better for this deck, I some how left out tinker, and think the deck needs more then 1 voltic key. Sharding Sphinx was added with the idea that i could bounce the tokens to play stuff, however something like Triskelavus might be better. I personally dont play shop decks, but this this new cards is really nice, and will changed shop decks. Now the deck just needs an answer to Null Rod/Hurkyl's Recall/Energy Flux or whatever else.

This card isn't going to change shop decks at all. Shop has never really had a problem getting huge dudes into play (and really ansewering null rod for that matter, seeing as non-mud shop decks play null rod when the meta is appropriate). I've played a fair amount of shop in my day and hard casting a 6 cc artifact really isn't too tricky. what it comes down to is that if your needing this guys help to get your artifacts into play, you've got bigger problems.

[Random Noob]

I'm testing a list with Welder, Transmuter and Intuition. Once i got it 1st Turn Welder, 2nd Transmuter and on the 3rd a bad Intuition on Robots and i had a Sharuum on hand. The Problem is that Shops and Mana Drain are not easy to play. Most times i decided to play a Shop the first Turns and did not stuck getting UU.

I think with Welder and Transmuter an Intuition looks much more powerful.

Here is my one:

// Lands
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4  Shivan Reef --- I think its the better choice than fetch -- V.Island, because Sundering Titan will kill your Landbase when you start bouncing it with Transmuter.
    4  City of Brass ...
    2  Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
    2  Sharuum the Hegemon --- The Nuts in Intuition
    2  Duplicant
    2  Triskelion
    2  Sundering Titan
    1  Memnarch
    4  Goblin Welder
    4  Master Transmuter
    1  Gorilla Shaman (2)
    1  Pentavus

// Spells
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    1  Tinker
    2  Gilded Lotus
    1  Trinisphere
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    4  Force of Will
    3  Intuition
    1  Memory Jar

The biggest Problem is that Mana Drain sucks with Shops in my testings.

And about the Transmuter, the trick is that you can Bounce your Robots and play the same one out again through the Transmuter's ability at one time. Thats what a Metalworker can't do, to play Sharuum twice a Turn, or Duplicants, imagine a bounced/rebounced Titan.... Trisk....

[bluemage55]

The biggest Problem is that Mana Drain sucks with Shops in my testings.

Yes.  Yes it does.

I'm fairly certain it's impossible to get them to work together.  You're better off going with either the Control Slaver route or the Shop route, something discovered early in CS's development 5 years ago.

[Purple Hat]

you can, however, make workshops work with transmute artifact since gilded lotus is about the best thing to transmute ever.

[Random Noob]

2 other things you can do with it, you can block and bounce it self back like a Blinky Spirit (maybe useful sometimes) and i was thinking about him and Voltaic Key. Tap him, untap him with key then bounce Key, bring a Fattie and play the Key once more and so on.

[BruiZar]

I'm amazed why people aren't using 4x mox diamond + crucible to get a reliable source of UU alongside workshops. Transmute Artifact and Mana Drain are both really strong and I believe the only way to ever get that mana is by using a couple of fetch and moxD+moxS+Lotus

[BruiZar]

And the actual card we're discussing:

[Qube]

Yea, and I very like the picture, the 2 planets are nice symbolic. 

[mike_bergeron]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37343.msg519597;boardseen#new

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37344.msg519598#msg519598

Looks like Jer Rudolph took some time out of making a frankenstein monster to actually use the card instead of theorize about it.

[Rock Lee]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37343.msg519597;boardseen#new

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37344.msg519598#msg519598

Looks like Jer Rudolph took some time out of making a frankenstein monster to actually use the card instead of theorize about it.

You make me blush Mike B @_@

And that deck IS a Frankenstein monster!

[Vegeta2711]

edit: nvm. not worth the trouble.