Optimizing Tezzeret

[Phele]

Congratulations to your win. And it is good to see that you came to the same results with Twister. I just can underline it again, how good this card can be. It is so easy to set up the win after a Twister in a deck with nine accelateration pieces (Moxen, Vault, Crypt, Ring, Lotus) and six tutors (Mystical, Vamp, Demonic, Merchant, Tinker, Gifts), even though - as mentioned - the card is not focused and adds some sort of randomness. How good a first Turn Twister can be on the play has already been underlined. Not that it gains you a least a two or three card advantage, it also destroys the hand of your opponent which was held for a reason. My conclusion would be to at least play Twister as a sideboard weapon against Ichorid. It is in my eyes clearly better than Relic of Progenitus, even though it costs one blue mana more to "activate" but with the big advantage of getting much closer to your combo win - which is the best way of beating Ichorid. In a meta with lots of Ichorids and control mirrors I would even think about maindecking it, as a clever player can easily use Twister as a powerful weapon against the opponent control player. But gainst fast combo decks and Workshops Twister is definately a bad choice.

[M.Solymossy]

Twister*

I had a long post typed up, but then my laptop ate it.  So I'll try to sum it up. 

The problem with twister is that it has the same odds of winning you the game as just giving your opponent an insane hand and having them just kill you.  Every time you tutor for this card, you're not tutoring for a card that actively puts you ahead of your opponent, or lets you catch up.  I would rather run Memory Jar in this spot, and have contemplated it many times, as it doesn't give your opponent a permanent new 7.

I have been running a Tezz build with 0 Duress and 4 Spell Snares, and haven't been disapointed.  The decks where Spell Snare is bad, I just side them out for other pro-active cards.

[SolyTezz]

// Lands
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Island
    2 Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    1 Darksteel Colossus
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker

// Spells
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Tinker
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Gifts Ungiven
    1 Time Vault
    1 Ponder
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Time Walk
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    4 Force of Will
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Rebuild
    1 Echoing Truth
    4 Spell Snare
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Rack and Ruin
SB: 1 Shattering Pulse

[dark burn]

what are the main cards you counter will spell snare?

[ErkBek]

what are the main cards you counter will spell snare?

Here is what Spell Snare hits (that's relevant)
Null Rod
Chalice of the Void @ 1
Sphere of Resistance / Thorn of Amethyst
Confidant
Tarmogoofus
Meddling Mage
Ethersworn Cannonist
Quasilli Pridemage
Gaddock Teeg
banana Drain
Time Walk
Time Vault
Merchant Scroll
Cabal Ritual
Demonic Tutor
Tinstreet Holigan
Joblin Piledriver
Hurkyl's Recall
Echoing Truth
Oath Of Druids

[Implacable]

what are the main cards you counter will spell snare?

Here is what Spell Snare hits (that's relevant)
Null Rod
Chalice of the Void @ 1
Sphere of Resistance / Thorn of Amethyst
Confidant
Tarmogoofus
Meddling Mage
Ethersworn Cannonist
Quasilli Pridemage
Gaddock Teeg
banana Drain
Time Walk
Time Vault
Merchant Scroll
Cabal Ritual
Demonic Tutor
Tinstreet Holigan
Joblin Piledriver
Hurkyl's Recall
Echoing Truth
Oath Of Druids

In other words, in a lot of the mainstream matchups, it hits about fourteen-ish cards, maybe up to twenty, and against Fish it's a brick house. 

[dark burn]

that seems to be really scary for fish decks.  Hope it doesnt catch on.

[AmbivalentDuck]

It also hits a slew of key cards from Legacy.  If more restrictions come down, it hits most of the Drain alternatives including Daze and Counterbalance.  In the case of unrestrictions, it hits flash and Gush's buddy Dryad.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

It also hits a slew of key cards from Legacy.  If more restrictions come down, it hits most of the Drain alternatives including Daze and Counterbalance.  In the case of unrestrictions, it hits flash and Gush's buddy Dryad.

You heard it here first! If the restrictions come down your Dazes are not safe, they will be Spell Snared.

[AmbivalentDuck]

lol, that was pretty dumb. Oops

[M.Solymossy]

Basically, the deck doesn't give up much in the matchups by not having duress, and it gains a TON against the bad matchups.  I'm excited to give the list a run.   

Eric:  Copying my post off the GWS boards?  How dare you! 

I forgot Painter's Servant, Kataki, and Spellstutter Sprite, too.

[Isaac85]

For the thoughtseize and the lost of life i have to dissagree. If u can hit one of your biggest enemys like Welder an Bob, Magus or even Goyg, the life loss wont matter and the storm is not as popullar as it was.

I asked if it was worth it not that it wasn't. Every where you look there's a different meta and I am positive yours and mine are different. That's why I never jump to solid conclusions and ask some questions first.

[Caron]

... i've tryed time twister in my tezz... and I have to agree it's too dangerous to give your opponent 7 new cards...

I have a question anyway, when do you side in Trinisphere?

CARONDIMONIO

[M.Solymossy]

I use trinisphere as my clutch Spell against all forms of Storm Combo, as well as elves if it shows up.   A lot of people use Glen Elendra Archmage in this spot, and I have to agree there probably is no right answer.  I just like the random Land + Mana vault/crpt/mox+Sol ring -> Trinisphere.   If you don't play extremely tight with trinisphere out though, you can get forced into some bad spots by the better combo players.   

[shadow00]

 For those of you who play confidant, have you tested out night's whisper instead, and if so what has proven to be a better deal. I personally haven't gotten around to swap out bob for the whispers yet, but if any has tried already I would like to know how it worked out.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I tested nights whisper a great deal, starting with three I was originaly very happy with the card while goldfishing. However in actual play testing I slowly cut them one by one. Nights whisper just wasn't fast enough. Its also not nearly as good as confidant against mana denial stragies and aggro.

[voltron00x]

It also hits a slew of key cards from Legacy.  If more restrictions come down, it hits most of the Drain alternatives including Daze and Counterbalance.  In the case of unrestrictions, it hits flash and Gush's buddy Dryad.

You heard it here first! If the restrictions come down your Dazes are not safe, they will be Spell Snared.

I realize this is a month late, but I just read this today.  Good times.  

At GP: Chicago, a player who was mana-screwed was about to have his only land destroyed by Wasteland.  Out of desperation, he played Brainstorm and in response, Dazed it, figuring it was worth countering his own Brainstorm to save his only land.  However, his opponent was not about to let any of that nonsense go down, and played Spell Snare on the Daze......... you gotta love it.

Back on topic, I haven't been impressed with Night's Whisper at all.  Every time my opponent has played it over a different draw engine, I've been happy.

Timetwister seems kind of loose in Tezz against most match-ups, with the one exception being the combo-oriented Tezz that Beaver's been slinging at the Philly events.  With the Dark Rituals and Tendrils in the deck, Twister makes much more sense there.

[TheBrassMan]

It also hits a slew of key cards from Legacy.  If more restrictions come down, it hits most of the Drain alternatives including Daze and Counterbalance.  In the case of unrestrictions, it hits flash and Gush's buddy Dryad.

You heard it here first! If the restrictions come down your Dazes are not safe, they will be Spell Snared.

a critical play in the Dream Halls mirror

edit:

At GP: Chicago, a player who was mana-screwed was about to have his only land destroyed by Wasteland.  Out of desperation, he played Brainstorm and in response, Dazed it, figuring it was worth countering his own Brainstorm to save his only land.  However, his opponent was not about to let any of that nonsense go down, and played Spell Snare on the Daze......... you gotta love it.

(just for the record, Spell Snare targetting Daze doesn't even remotely stop the land from returning to its owners hand)

[pierce]

lol at the brassman. good points.

on the topic of spell snare, you have forgotten such vintage playables as:

hymn to tourach (mono black still randomly shows up, no?)
protects your inkwell vs an edict
mesmiric fiend and the w/b zombie that does the same thing out of fishy decks
fire/ice
standstill (goddamn canadians)
Accumulated Knowledge

[God_Campbell]

standstill (goddamn canadians)

I hate that card as much as you do, and I play agianst it nearly every tourney!

[voltron00x]

It also hits a slew of key cards from Legacy.  If more restrictions come down, it hits most of the Drain alternatives including Daze and Counterbalance.  In the case of unrestrictions, it hits flash and Gush's buddy Dryad.

You heard it here first! If the restrictions come down your Dazes are not safe, they will be Spell Snared.

a critical play in the Dream Halls mirror

edit:

At GP: Chicago, a player who was mana-screwed was about to have his only land destroyed by Wasteland.  Out of desperation, he played Brainstorm and in response, Dazed it, figuring it was worth countering his own Brainstorm to save his only land.  However, his opponent was not about to let any of that nonsense go down, and played Spell Snare on the Daze......... you gotta love it.

(just for the record, Spell Snare targetting Daze doesn't even remotely stop the land from returning to its owners hand)

Sigh, yes, hence the hilarious part.  The guy Snaring the Daze let the other guy resolve his Brainstorm for no reason and wasted his Spell Snare.  Hilarity ensues.  C'mon, stay with me here...

[ConF1ictZ]

 Hey guy's I had a quick question pertaining to Tezz, specifically remora tezz, is it viable to run it without drains (like Paul's list last month), or is Drain + TFK a "staple" for tezz?

[JudasKilled]

Some people may think this retarded but ive been running 2 of twincasts in my tezz deck with pretty good results in a majority of my match ups, what do u guys think tech or jank?

[Caron]

...twin cast (blue fork) in tezz: i've tryed it, in some matchups it comes to be unespectly huge, burt i've found it too situational... and turned back to duresses/misdi etc... or transmute artifact for the same cost comes more usefull...
... drain, i think it's a must in a tezz deck...
... spellsnare, i find it a great card, even better than duress in some metagames, but here, with a lot of tps and ad naueam around i prefer duresses... even if i really like spellsnare (soly.. spell snare tezz versione version is great)...


CARONDIMONIO

[VideoGameBoy]

Here is what Spell Snare hits (that's relevant)
Chalice of the Void @ 1

Spell Snare says "converted mana cost", not just "mana cost".  Thus it will never counter Chalice of the Void.

[meadbert]

Here is what Spell Snare hits (that's relevant)
Chalice of the Void @ 1

Spell Snare says "converted mana cost", not just "mana cost".  Thus it will never counter Chalice of the Void.

I thought that while on the stack a spells converted mana cost and mana cost are equivolent?

EDIT:
203.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with an in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.

[stu55]

I realize this is a month late, but I just read this today.  Good times.  

At GP: Chicago, a player who was mana-screwed was about to have his only land destroyed by Wasteland.  Out of desperation, he played Brainstorm and in response, Dazed it, figuring it was worth countering his own Brainstorm to save his only land.  However, his opponent was not about to let any of that nonsense go down, and played Spell Snare on the Daze......... you gotta love it.

Back on topic, I haven't been impressed with Night's Whisper at all.  Every time my opponent has played it over a different draw engine, I've been happy.

I guess I need to add a bit to this story. I was the player that mind-tricked the shit out of his opponent.I was running Team America and he was CounterTop, we had traded lands for wastelands for a bit but I had missed a second one after we reset the board on lands. So, he goes to waste, I brainstorm and then daze, and without hesitation my opponent spell snare's my Daze, and auto-tilts himself when he realizes what he does. The rest of it was pretty one-sided.

About Tezz, how much better is the Blue/Black versus the Mono-Blue? My friend is set on Mono-Blue, but I am trying to help him see that the black for Confidant/Discard is unreal. Does the Mono-blue have better matchups against certain decks that make it ok to run?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

You have no reason to not play black cards for tutors when trying to assemble a 2 card combo. Or to, you know, grab what ever you want depending on game state.
also YAWGMOTH'S WILL

[LordHomerCat]

What he said.  Why would you run Mono-blue?  Back to Basics?  There's no reason to just not play good tutors and replace it with crap like mana leaks or more impulses or whatever crap he is running now.

[kalisia]

I exhume this topic in order to discuss again about Tezzcast, which is a deck I really appreciate.
So, the results of Cesar speak by themselves, the deck is incredible, but maybe the spanish metagame is one of the factor of the succes of this deck there.
I've heard many critiques about the deck, concerning the fragility of the mana base and the heavy problems the deck is facing with Null Rod.
With the restrict of Thirst for Knowledge, and as it seems there isn't good replacement for them, it is may be the good moment to try to reinforce the deck with cards that will combat Rod and Waste.
With TFK restricted, Thoughscast clearly seems the best draw set we can play in an adapted deck.

First, I thought that just replacing the 3 TFK by 3 Spell Snare would be nice against Null Rod.
The second question for me has been : is a splash really necessary in this deck? Why not to try to keep only Blue and Black? Like that, in UB colors, we make the deck stronger against Waste and it allows us to play AT LEAST one Island!
@Cesar : if you read these lines, I would be very interested by your comments ! With your experience, Red splash is necessary or not? The two Keys are so important, or coud we replace one by Imperial seal? I did my best to try to solidify the deck, I think a Crucible in sideboard seems interesting, and the reason I put only Hurkyl's as bounces (vs Shop)in the sideboard is that it's another good way to save Seat of Synod from Waste/Strip.

Here is my working list, Cesar feel free to give your opinion and suggestions/ modifications :

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Tinker
1 Misdirection
2 Repeal
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby

1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Island



Sideboard:

2 The Abyss
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Extirpate
2 Planar Void
1 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Duress
1 Robot (Inkwell / DSC / Titan / Platinum)

[MaxxMatt]

@About Cesar List

I will play a full set of Repeals in such a list.
It is really satisfing to continuosly tropdecking Rod's solutions and disadvantage tutors optimizers.
On the other hand, SSnares are good but needed the right timing to be abused: the deck proposed and played by Cesar seems to be more proactive than previously considered staples builds. Repeals >> Duresses >> SSnares in these slots

I will keep the build bicolor and add Island#3 in Fetchland#6 slot.

IMHO, this build has many levels of lecture and a lot of cards are used differently depending on timing.

*    Top - Key - Vault are both combo components and additional draw engine
*    Repeals are both combo components and additional removals
*    Seats are both stable mana and drawer enhancer
*    Tezzerets are both tutors and combo controller

Thinking about adding a third color is unrealistic for a mixed metagame. Rods, Shop, Fishes & Spheres can autolock you when faced in multiples so there are really fewer things to do rather than reducing this deck to a bicolor one.

I will completely revamp sideboard instead
Sideboard:

4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Thoughtsize
2 Duress
1 Rebuild

*    TCrypts are perfect paired with Repeals against Ichorid & co. Even if they resolve CotV@0, repeals will get rid of it and let you crush their own grave
*    ETruth & PNeedles are your own aggro control enhancer. Bounce thing in multiples and protect yourself from their own activate abilities. really strong options
*    Duress & Thoughtsize are thought when facing both control and combo deck. discard their counter wall or deplete their hand from bombs. this is the plan
*    HRecall & Rebuild & PNeedle is the right mix against Artifact.dec
*    Tinker will grab nothing more than Top.Key.Vault. No Robot here. It seems to me more functional for the combo victory . ToA will perfectly cover the


Maxx


Test list for reference:

(14) _ Protections
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Repeals
1 Misdirection
1 Rebuild

(11) _ Drawers
4 Thoughtcast
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or fiction
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk

(3) _ Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker

(7) _ Combo Pieces
2 Tezzeret, the Seeker
2 Voltaic Key
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Inkwell Leviathan / ToA
1 Time Vault

(25) _ Mana
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Flooded Strand
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby