TPS players

[chrissss]

can you post the reasons for the SB and the decks you would use them for?

eg

Vs tez

-2 card X
+2 card Y

[jamestosetti]

I haven't tested explosives against mud yet but I guess it's not played as much as it used to be I hear but explosives might be good against that deck. Explosives I'd say goes in for say a mox and mana crypt or an intuition I guess. I'm not awesome at the s/b yet. I'd s/b it in against oath and fish decks using goyf and confidant and possibly against painters combo. I'd use it against parfait or anything running canonist. Basically anything running 2 cost hate that is harder to deal with than the average. The rest of the s/b is pretty self explanatory being half of it is for ichorid. Explosives can be used against ichorid to kill t he tokens or narcomoebas and what not but the needles and extirpates  and things should do it. Against a better drain player I would s/b the intuition and a duress for the hymns.

[Diakonov]

To settle the Oath debate:

Agreed that unusual builds are normally a big problem for Colossus (aka Progenitus, Tidespout, etc).

Assuming most builds run 1 Akroma, 2 Hellkite...

Tinker out Colossus with Oath on board, no Orchard.

Scenario A: Hellkite comes up first.  Swings, you go to 12.  He goes to 9.  He waits and blocks 2nd time, he goes to 6.  Then...

Sub-Scenario AA: Hellkite #2 comes up.  Must block, goes to 3.  [Here we are assuming that you did not fetch at all or FoW (he would have swung for the win), and that he didn't have pump-mana.]  Akroma comes up, you go to 6, Oath player dies.

Sub-Scenario AB: Akroma comes up next.  Swings, you go to 6.  Blocks, he goes to 1 (!!), then Hellkite comes up and wins.  We are assuming he didn't FoW or fetch this game, and also that you didn't have Tendrils. 

Scenario B: Akroma comes up first.  Swings, you go to 14. He doesn't block with Akroma, he goes to 9.  Swings with Akroma again, you go to 8.  Blocks this time, he goes to 4.  Hellkite comes up, you lose.  This time we are assuming that you didn't have Tendrils while he wasn't holding a counter.

So there are 3 possible scenarios.  This is not considering the possibility of him not drawing into Orchard.  Overall, though, I'd feel safer in knowing that Necro will win me the game 9/10 times, while not activating their Oath.  Throw in the probabilities that you might be facing a different version of Oath, and it seems to me that Necro is definitely the better play.

@ jamestosetti:

You have to be wary of Null Rod, so Explosives might not be the best choice to side in against Fish.  Also, bounce is much better against shops IMO, since the CMC of their permanents tends to vary, and they also are likely running Null Rod (especially post-board).

[hitman]

How have you found Extirpate?  Every time I use that card, I wish I never bought it in the first place.  I think the problem with Extirpate in a deck like TPS is you don't want to expend resources removing spells that they've already used.  They're unlikely to have additional copies in their hand so you've effectively done nothing to the present gamestate except use up a precious black mana source. 

I also disagree with Engineered Explosives in your board.  Outside of Ichorid, the matchups you would bring it in against are well prepared for it in the form of Null Rod.  If you're planning on using it against Spheres and Thorns, the two Recalls should be enough along with the Rebuild and Chain of Vapor main.  If you want it for Fish, the Slaughter Pacts should be enough to remove the creature(s) you care about.  Your sideboard needs more basic land.  It does what you're trying to do with Explosives better.  Instead of fight a hate deck on their own terms, just play better mana and maneuver around their hate.

If I were to play TPS tomorrow, my sideboard would look like this:

2 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Infest
2 Island
1 Swamp

[jamestosetti]

The main problem with the basic land in the s/b is I never figured out wich cards to s/b out for the them?That kind of info here is great for anyone reading who would like to get into tps. I use extirpate only for ichorid. I run 3 of them because im only using 7 hate cards for ichorid and when you play a deck you have to mulligan anyway I think extirpate is a good 1 to find. I've taken a hymn to tourach and an engineered explosives out for an island and a swamp. I'll try them out again if anyone knows what to s/b out for them. Also 2 leyline of the void is no good I was always told 1 or 4 and I've found it to be true.

[hitman]

You side out off color Moxes when you plan on playing against Null Rod.  The idea is to remove your weakest point so the common forms of attack won't work effectively against you.  TPS's weakest point is its mana.  That's where the deck bottlenecks so you want to stabilize it as much as possible so when they attack you there, it won't hurt as much.

Against Tezzeret, I don't sideboard.  Your mainboard should be ideal already for that matchup.

Against Workshops, you side out off color Moxes for basic lands and Misdirection and Duress for Hurkyl's Recall.

Against Fish, you side out off color Moxes for basic lands and probably Chain of Vapor for Hurkyl's Recall.  I'd cut Misdirection and a Duress for your two anti-Fish cards.

Against Ichorid, I side two Leyline, two Jailer, two Tormod's Crypt and two Pithing Needle because they can't reasonably sideboard against you.  What can they bring in besides their whole sideboard to handle your hate?  You're attacking from every angle this way.  The more they bring in, the slower they get and the more time you have to either win or find more hate.

If you run into a lot of Mono-Blue, I'd run two Bayous in the board with three Xantid Swarm.  The Mystic Remora-Meditate deck is gaining a little popularity but Ichorid should keep it at bay for the most part.  Not enough people are playing Ichorid right now. 

Anyway, that's how I would sideboard.

[jamestosetti]

Lol if we only had this thread months ago there would probably be alot more tps players. Like Homercat said somewhere else in the forums tps has a better chance to top 8 bigger tournaments, thats probably the only place I'd like to be playing it. Any way I'll be testing those s/b strategies, they look pretty good.

[Heresy]

I was wondering why is frantic search ignored in tps lists?

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I was wondering why is frantic search ignored in tps lists?

It is ignored because if you have 3 lands and a 3cc spell in your hand there are likely better things to be doing than losing hand size.

[Smmenen]

You side out off color Moxes when you plan on playing against Null Rod.  The idea is to remove your weakest point so the common forms of attack won't work effectively against you.  TPS's weakest point is its mana.  That's where the deck bottlenecks so you want to stabilize it as much as possible so when they attack you there, it won't hurt as much.

Against Tezzeret, I don't sideboard.  Your mainboard should be ideal already for that matchup.

Against Workshops, you side out off color Moxes for basic lands and Misdirection and Duress for Hurkyl's Recall.

Against Fish, you side out off color Moxes for basic lands and probably Chain of Vapor for Hurkyl's Recall.  I'd cut Misdirection and a Duress for your two anti-Fish cards.

Against Ichorid, I side two Leyline, two Jailer, two Tormod's Crypt and two Pithing Needle because they can't reasonably sideboard against you.  What can they bring in besides their whole sideboard to handle your hate?  You're attacking from every angle this way.  The more they bring in, the slower they get and the more time you have to either win or find more hate.

If you run into a lot of Mono-Blue, I'd run two Bayous in the board with three Xantid Swarm.  The Mystic Remora-Meditate deck is gaining a little popularity but Ichorid should keep it at bay for the most part.  Not enough people are playing Ichorid right now. 

Anyway, that's how I would sideboard.

This.

That's pretty much exactly my plans as well.

My article today hits on alot of the themes raised in this thread.   

[jamestosetti]

I hope some more people top 8 with Tps. I'm pretty sure they will. I think the big factor is that some of the people who could be winning with tps are playing Tezzeret decks. It also helps when random people are playing it because a tps noob could beat drain pilots in a tourney wich tips the scale when it comes to who has the record to enter the top 8. That's also why it pays to hate on ichorid and let it beat the other players. Also that was a great article Smemmen wrote. After the articles he wrote before this one makes me feel like a more complete tps player and gives me the confidence to run it in tournaments again.

[jamestosetti]

Yea the people who have been using Inkwell are right. It gives tps every possible edge that it did not have before. Also with this card in dsc's spot it makes the intuition in my list wrong and duress will go back in giving an even bigger edge than Inkwell already gave me. That allows me to take the hymn to tourach out and use the 3rd basic land needed in the s/b. So hear is my s/b. I know people are like why is the engineered explosives there? It's mainly there for Oath and and Lsv's deck.Quit a while ago I was already playing against that deck and found engineered great for taking out the remora's. Also for oath because they were beating me consistently for months until I started using it. Then it is for gaddok teeg and meddling mage and ethersworn canonist or any tarmogoyfs that hit the table before him. I figure since were going for critical mass why not pay 2 drop explosives and accumulate the needed cards and kill teeg before you go off? It completely works for me plus there is a second chain of vapor in the s/b.

1 chain of vapor
2 pithing needle
2 tormods crypt
3 extirpate
2 hurkl's recall
1 swamp
2 island
2 engineered explosives

[jamestosetti]

I have a correction for a previous post where I said I had not tested explosives against mud. I used it more for stax and it was definitly effective. It was also effective against the remora's but only if they were playing them heavily. You have to really know when to s/b these cards for them to be effective. They say fish and stax are natural predators of tps but I think the fish match is definitly in our favor and the stax using explosives is better than it was without it. I think slaughter pact and hymn to tourach are pretty good but tourach is good for decks we can already beat. Slaughter pact is good but I find explosives more versatile. I'm not saying 1 is right or wrong but I've played the heck out of the bad match ups for this deck.

[Mith]

Why Massacre over Infest? I'm not seeing so many Plains these days...

[hitman]

Why Massacre over Infest? I'm not seeing so many Plains these days...

We only care about the white creatures, in general.  White gives a player Aven Mindcensor, Meddling Mage, Glowrider, Ethersworn Canonist, etc.  We shouldn't care about vanilla creatures with large bodies.  A clock is largely irrelevant against TPS because TPS can just race it.  The creatures TPS cares about disrupt the combo or the establishment of resources to build up to the combo.

With that in mind, we don't want a spell to cost us valuable black sources to cast.  We need to remove disruptive creatures cheaply as not to hinder the goal of building a lethal storm count.  There are only two good cards that do this, Slaughter Pact and Massacre.  Almost always, Massacre is better than Slaughter Pact because it has the potential to kill multiple problem creatures.

[jamestosetti]

Ok, I've forgotten this before and gaddok teeg says no x spells so engineered is out of my s/b. Sorry about that. Ok, so I think intuition should go in fact or fictions spot because it costs less mana and is more focused than fact or fiction. Here is what my s/b will look like. Also I've heard someone say tormods comes in for the mirror but I'm thinking probably not especially with intuition in the deck. Anyones thoughts on the mirror?
1 chain of vapor
2 pithing needle
2 tormod's crypt
3 extirpate
2 hurkyl's recall
1 slaughter pact
1 massacre
1 swamp
2 island


EDIT:

Ok I consider myself up to date again on tps. Heres my list and some reasons.

1 tolarian academy
2 underground sea
2 island
2 swamp
4 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire

4 dark ritual
2 cabal ritual
4 duress
1 Yawgmoth's bargain
1 necropotence
1 vampiric tutor
1 imperial seal
1 demonic tutor
1 grim tutor
1 yawgmoth's will
1 tendrils of agony

1 ancestral recall
1 ponder
1 brainstorm
1 merchant scroll
1 intuition
1 mystical tutor
1 gifts ungiven
1 tinker
1 timetwister
1 time walk
4 force of will
1 misdirection
1 rebuild
1 chain of vapor
1 mind's desire

1 inkwell leviathan

5 moxen
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
1 memory jar

s/b
2 hymn to tourach
1 massacre
1 chain of vapor
2 hurkyl's recall
2 tormod's crypt
3 extirpate
2 pithing needle
1 swamp
1 island

There was some discussion top is right for the metagame. I'd feel safer running a darkblast lol. I don't think the deck requires any more explanantion besides what Menendian said about critical mass. I notice drain tendrils made some top 8's and I made a crazy version of it a few weeks ago and was beating more decks than I was losing to so I'm going to go test that now.

EDIT:
I've played a few workshop matches and I was thinking of s/bing the following cards. Misdirection, 4 duress.  I've also added a senseis divining top in the place of a hymn to tourach in the s/b but It has never came up in a match yet. I dont think its maindeck material but that's only my opinion and I've been known to be wrong.

Posts combined.  Please refrain from double (or triple) posting, and use the edit button if you want to make changes.  It'll be a warning next time.  -Eastman

[jamestosetti]

I'd like to  see how the majority of people play their necropotence. I've seen it written to just bust out and draw 11 cards. I've done that and it can work but It has the potential to wiff I think.  I think it has alot to do with the game state and how good of a position your opponent is in. If you have say land mox in play I always fill my hand plus 3. I do that because usually the opponent devises a way to stop the first run with those cards so with the first run I see what happens if not the worst thing that happens is they have not much of a hand left and theres a better chance of a lethal yawg will. If I was playing the mirror match I would really consider drawing 11 cards. If my opponent has a timevault in play I would probably draw 11 cards.

Now for Yawgmoth's bargain. When I turn 1 this card I normally fill my hand and pass the turn unless I have a black lotus and say a dark ritual in hand because Yawgmoth's bargain doesn't spell I win on it's own. If your opponent tries to pull some lethal trick off you simply draw until you've successfully countered all his efforts to win. I see waiting and untapping a much better option than the possible wiff. If it's late game about 60 percent of the time I'll just go for it since you normally have some artifacts or rituals left in hand or a swamp up at least.


I was also wondering how many people s/b the timetwisters out? I personally think the card should never go to the s/b. That card is so good when the jar is popped or when your opp obviously has the upperhand and your going to lose. I agree turn 2 is probably not the best time to play the spell but there is another reason intuition is in my list.Your opponent can basically tell when you are trying to resolve a big blue bomb. Forcing them with intuition in nearly any game state has awesome results 90 percent of the time. Even in response to them playing one of their bombs. Sometimes I'll grab 3 fow's or 2 fow's and a misdirection. Sometimes I'll grab 1 fow, a dark ritual a black lotus or demonic tutor,mayby the mystical tutor. If the situation is really serious you can force them like this. Tinker, demonic tutor,timetwister. They do not know your hand so that dark ritual is normally the card you hope they put in your hand because most of the time you'll already have the combo and lack 1 piece. I've heard intuition called a red herring but this card has definitely won me many games. It is a very consistent card. This card is good for either the above or finishing your combo when no other card will do it. It will be sitting in your hand and you'll be at like storm 8 and thinking man I need 1 more card to complete this. I don't think I've come to the situation where intuiton couldn't do it. It's also great because anything they counter especially them countering intuition is great. Another reason I'm not for fact or fiction anymore is because it cost's quite a few mana for a non guaranteed outcome.Even if you get some good card you are tapped down or you tapped something big to cast it. If you haven't played that many games with tps I don't know if intuition is the card for you.

 A thought on misdirection coming out of the deck. When I was less experienced with the metagame and felt I needed  1 more bomb or 1 more thoughtseize or 1 more of some card because I was frustrated with my chances to win I would stare at the misdirection. Most people look at it as the ancestral recall stealer but it is basically our 5th force of will and I consider it absolutely necessary. At first it seems to be a win more card but that just means it isn't being put to proper use. I think misdirection is one of the best cards in type 1 and especially in this deck. I don't understand why a person would want to use a sensei's diving top especially after we just got inkwell leviathan to smooth out our hands. I'd say that's more of metagame thing and will not go far because I've seen it quite a few times. All these decks that are seeming new to people and these tactics like top in tps have been around for quite some time. The only new deck  I think has potential is the grow deck because I've seen it in action a lot of games. I've only played a few games with it but I've seen some people really own with that deck. Ok that's all no offense to anyone in any of this I think it's better to talk about the stuff your thinking about because It's the only way we learn. And I apologize for the double and triple posts I did not know we were allowed to modify the message once posted. I'll take notes and make one concentrated post from now on.

[Aew]

First of all I would like to say thanks for an insightful thread about the complex, but then again great deck TPS.

I got a few questions concerning  side boarding. It seems like more and more Tps players are moving away from the "Man plan" post game1.
Is this due to the changes in the current meta, or is it just not strong enough? From my humble experience playing Tps I have caught some players of guard after side boarding in a few Phyrexian Negator`s. Sideboards are most of the time made for your current meta, but in general is the "Man plan" (Negator/goyf) out of date?

At the moment am running what I would like to describe as a stock list of Tps, expect from the fact that am running 2xGrim tutor and not Imperial seal.
Should I cut one Grim tutor for Imperial seal? It might just be me, but from my experience Imperial seal always find my hand at the wrong time, where a top deck tutor is to weak.

[hitman]

The man plan is an inefficient way of dealing with hate.  Instead of trying to incorporate a mediocre aggro plan, it's better to just solidify your original gameplan by reinforcing weak areas in your mainboard with your sideboard slots.  If you can remove the areas in your mainboard which commonly come under attack, you're denying your opponent's ability to meaningfully interact with you.  That's the goal of a combo deck, to reduce interaction with your opponent so you can combo out uninterrupted. 

You want your sideboard slots to aid you in storming out.  The only creature that complements the storm plan is Dark Confidant because he can reduce the need to storm as high and gains card advantage. 

[jamestosetti]

 I honestly think Bob is the worst card you can put in this deck. I think he is the most win more of win more cards for tps. The s/b aggro plan was decent before Time Vault was unbanned.  Before conflux came out tps was lacking in a couple ways that left the pilot constantly seaching and thinking what 1 card will fix this deck. I think Fact or Fiction did it pretty well and then Inkwell put it in a way better spot. I think people use Bob because it seems to make you improve all the faster or for whatever reason but I think you should not use him and keep playing and and playing until you have a firm grasp on the metagame and and every card possibility in your deck. Bob has a lot of potential to either kill you or win the game. It really does take an extreme amount of games to feel very comfortable with this deck. I know myself that I need to play against workshop a ton of times and then I will feel proficient with this deck. I played the workshop match alot when I was still getting better with the deck and did not have a firm grasp on our s/b yet so I only beat them when the cards lined up right or I planned the bounce out very well.

  I guess you can say Fact or Fiction is definitly a viable card for tps and is great for finishing games or putting you in a better spot but I have just found it unneccesarry in my list. Where fof would be good I can do it earlier with intuition plus I have counterspell protection from it. I think if you include two intuitions especially in the place of misdirection your just goldfishing the deck. I'm glad someone finally said we are building our hand up for "The Perfect Storm" because that clarifies alot of things for new pilots and that is not something that comes naturally in this deck.

   I was thinking of s/bing out Force of will and misdirection for the bounce and land package against workshop because if we're going for critical mass I don't see how pitching our kill cards to buy us time is going to help us any more and I think it will maximize our storm potential. Any thoughts on this?

PS My spellchecker isn't working anymore?

[hitman]

I honestly think Bob is the worst card you can put in this deck.

I'm not saying Dark Confidant is good in TPS.  I'm only saying it's the only creature that compliments the main gameplan of a storm deck.  I said earlier that the man plan was inefficient. 

I think Fact or Fiction did it pretty well and then Inkwell put it in a way better spot.

I've cut Fact or Fiction and Misdirection from the deck entirely.  I've replaced them with Sleight of Hand.  It's excellent at bridging the gap between mana and business spells early in the game.  It's the closest replacement to Brainstorm that isn't restricted.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I played TPS in a tournament today and went 3-2 but was very impressed with how it performed...heres the list, and ill give a brief tournament summary. 26 man tourney

Land

4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy

Artifacts

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Moxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Senseis Divining top

Artifact Creatures

1 Inkwell Leviathan

Enchantments

1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth’s Bargain

Instants

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor

    Sorceries

4 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Mind’s Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

SB
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
2 Thrashing Wumpus
3 Empty the warrens
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hurkyls recall
1 Rebuild
2 Tormod's Crypt

Round 1 vs Tendrils Variant w/ no force
Game 1 Win turn 1 with lotus, 2 mox, rit, wheel, grim tutor, X...then top deck a mox
Game 2 is closer but end up winning

Round 2 vs Tezz
Game 1...win by turn 2 or 3 with foce back up
Game 2 He gets turn 1 Vault, key, mana to activate it, WITH FORCE BACK UP!!!! I have the force and a blue card...but not 2
Game 3 I twister having enough mana to duress him to nab a force and win nxt turn if he didnt get a broken twister hand, or just vamp for lotus, tap top to draw it...and if he has a force the game is over and i loose...I went the safer route with the duress...but he had tezz, tinker, drain, duress, etc, etc...I loose

Round 3 Tezz
Win game 1 fairly easy with turn 1 duress, turn 2 or 3 tinker for inkwell
Game 2 I thoughtseize, and duress by turn 2...then procede to win

IM 2-1 AT THIS PIONT...NEED TO WIN AND IN!!!!!

Round 4 Ichorid...
He wins the race game 1, as I am 1 mana short of turn 2 bargain
Game 2 I side in 2 warrens, 2 wumpus, 2 crypt, 1 rebuild (for chalice)...procede to warrens for 12 and still loose, as my sb is not set up for dredge

Round 5 vs Goblins
....TIME TO GOLDFISH!!!!! WIN 2-0
game 1 win with necro turn 2
game 2 warrens for 12, then will the following turn.


3-2 Final record...I feel that the deck is very very good...I like warrens and wheel was good all day (used it 2 or 3 times). I like warrens mainly for fish and stax...The deck is solid, I feel the tezz match is 60/40 in my favor, although some people may not agree. I go to 6 duress vs tezz post sb and just win if I dont get there game 1 (which i won my game 1's vs it). Need more prep for dredge as the 1 person playing it I had to face. Post sb i have 5 bounce vs stax and warrens WILL GET THERE!!!! Plus warrens eats fish aswell! Will deffinately play this configuration again treated me very well!

[jamestosetti]

      I finished testing sensie's divining top in the place of ponder and I found it very impressive. I did not think it was the correct card for months but after a ton of thought and with Inkwell I think top belongs in the deck now. I did not win the match I was playing though. It was a european variant I would say that had spellstutter sprites and lightning bolts and grapeshots. Minus the spellstutter sprites on my lotus and moxes games two and three I would have combod out turn one and turn two I think.

 The deck you have above is pitchlong I'm pretty sure.

[ancestral recall]

@ Hitman,

"The Mystic Remora-Meditate deck is gaining a little popularity but Ichorid should keep it at bay for the most part.  Not enough people are playing Ichorid right now. "

What you do side against remora deck? This is TPS worst match up. Which cards take you out from main and which cards go in main deck?


There's a quote button, use it.  -Eastman

[ancestral recall]

The deck you have above is pitchlong I'm pretty sure.

Pitchlong plays in main deck 2 misdirections. Pitchlong tries to force a bomb through the counter magic of your opponent. TPS is completely different in play style. Also pitchlong don't play creature like DSC or inkwell. So the list above is TPS.

Don't double post.  There's a modify button, use it.  -Eastman

[Marske]

What you do side against remora deck? This is TPS worst match up. Which cards take you out from main and which cards go in main deck?

I'm not entirely sure this is your "worst" matchup but it's rough I give you that... Also I'm not sure if you board anything at all.. I just can't get my head around how good / bad remora in general is, so I think you shouldn't dedicate THAT much effort into stopping a deck you might not even face (maybe not so true if you play in NE)

That being said, I'm pretty sure Twister could go (along with other draw 7's if you play them) it all just depends on how many cards you want to bring in for dealing with the deck.

I finished testing sensie's divining top in the place of ponder and I found it very impresive. I did not think it was the correct card for months but after a ton of thought and with Inkwell I think top belongs in the deck now.

What did you cut for the top and how high is your blue count ?

I did not win the match I was playing though. It was a european variant I would say that had spellstutter sprites and lightning bolts and grapeshots. Minus the spellstutter sprites on my lotus and moxes games two and three I would have combod out turn one and turn two I think.

TPS is not a turn 1/2 combo deck (more a turn 3 deck) so maybe you made some mistakes or played to rushed ? I don't think Lightning Bolt and Grapeshots would do anything damaging against TPS in the first 3 turns that you couldn't bounce back from. Spellstutter is crazy tech but easily played around when you know the opponent has it (it's like playing around a really bad drain)

[jamestosetti]

         That's a good question Marske and very important. I am running 18 maindeck blue spells and the top was put in the place of ponder. I am not sure that is the correct move but I don't have any advisors next to me so it seemed like a decent choice since top is basically a ponder that you can cast any time. This is a horrible statement I know but I think I'll test with 2 intuitions. One in the place of fact or fiction and one in the place of grim tutor. I really should test  before I say something like that but if I find that it's just win more the grim tutor will come back in and if intuition seems to be ineffective the fact or fiction will be back.

          As for the plays I was making in the game. I know Tps isn't supposed to be played as a goldfish. I opened a hand that was a classic turn 1 with the grim tutor, lotus,ritual, and whatever else and he was on the play.  I figure if you open a turn 1 kill you should have the intestinal fortitude to give it a shot. He had island and off color mox in play. This was no build you'll find roaming around in America all the time. When my black lotus hit the table he cast spellstutter sprite so I may have burned also I'm not sure. After that I drew 1 or 2 more cards and was ready to go off. He then counters an off color mox to stop my storm.  There was no way I could be predicting this. after that he casts ancestral recall then procedes to cast 3 lava darts recurring 2 of them, so 5 lava darts, then grapeshot followed by 2 lightning bolts and finally another grapeshot all in 1 turn.

         I also lost to another interesting deck you won't see everyday. The kill condition was mishra's factory. How does he get there? Standstill and every counterspell printed it seemed like. I would actually like to play this deck myself. His s/b was full of ridiculous hate for blue. He also ran Inkwell leviathan and wastelands. I have played both of those decks before but it has been months. I think if I were to play in a metagame like these two decks I would give two intuitions a shot. This deck also wiped grow off the map.

         I know about the critical mass aspect of this but you can't deny if you open a turn 1 kill you would almost be dumb to mulligan that hand given the cards it takes to create that. Your hand is basically sculpted already. I think I would accept criticism for trying to go off turn one. Against nintey percent of the regular metagame the attempt would have worked but I was playing two decks you don't normally run into. And for the deck listed above. It is a storm deck similar to tps but it is played differently and I'm pretty sure that is a list from when pitchlong was being played. I don't care that you post the results that was actually very cool but it is not tps. You can keep posting storm lists in here. I would actually think that was great. I agree they are so similar they are basically the same but a couple card change is a huge difference in the way you will play the deck. I'm not sure including top keeps this deck at tps.

         Mystic Remora is not the worst matchup for tps. I would call it fifty fifty or even in our favor. You just need to practice the matchup. Knowing all the possible situations you can is a huge factor with your success when playing tps. I guarentee no one here can play all these decks and just keep beating them with a 5 and 0 record all the time. Even in all the advice we get and give I guarentee we have no perfect tps players.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

         Mystic Remora is not the worst matchup for tps. I would call it fifty fifty or even in our favor. You just need to practice the matchup. Knowing all the possible situations you can is a huge factor with your success when playing tps. I guarentee no one here can play all these decks and just keep beating them with a 5 and 0 record all the time. Even in all the advice we get and give I guarentee we have no perfect tps players.

I'm positive that you must be facing aweful Remora opponents if they don't steamroll you. Their entire deck is designed to destroy combo so if the anti-tps deck is only scoring 50/50 either tps is insanely busted or your results are horribly skewed.

[jamestosetti]

        Hey who knows, mayby if we had some type of play network setup we would understand alot more about vintage. The remora deck is obviously gearing up to do a certain thing. It is trying to get as many lands out as possible so it can keep casting and bouncing remora's. You can duress them, you can force of will them, you can chain of vapor them. I'm really not sure why I explain things on here because nintey percent of the time it's so someone can slam someone else to make themselves feel good.I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm also not sure half of the responses are from people who have alot of experience with what there responding to. I'm sure you have played some games against the remora deck. I do think it is  a tough matchup. I do think the matchup is winnable. Once you go through some remoras it is just a drain deck. There isn't alot of point in discussing it until someone has actually sat down and played tps against the remora deck for about 20 games and then tests ten more games to see the game win/loss ratio. But hey mayby the pilots didn't know what they were doing. Mayby it wasn't there day.

        It's to bad I don't have an mws play partner to test all these matchups with because I definitly would. It would be cool if you would share some insight on the matchup or any other matchups but I know one thing if you go into the match beat already it never helps. I would also like to know from what perspective you are speaking of? Are you speaking from the tps players perspective or the remora players perspective?

[Webster]

        Hey who knows, mayby if we had some type of play network setup we would understand alot more about vintage. The remora deck is obviously gearing up to do a certain thing. It is trying to get as many lands out as possible so it can keep casting and bouncing remora's. You can duress them, you can force of will them, you can chain of vapor them. I'm really not sure why I explain things on here because nintey percent of the time it's so someone can slam someone else to make themselves feel good.I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm also not sure half of the responses are from people who have alot of experience with what there responding to. I'm sure you have played some games against the remora deck. I do think it is  a tough matchup. I do think the matchup is winnable. Once you go through some remoras it is just a drain deck. There isn't alot of point in discussing it until someone has actually sat down and played tps against the remora deck for about 20 games and then tests ten more games to see the game win/loss ratio. But hey mayby the pilots didn't know what they were doing. Mayby it wasn't there day.

        It's to bad I don't have an mws play partner to test all these matchups with because I definitly would. It would be cool if you would share some insight on the matchup or any other matchups but I know one thing if you go into the match beat already it never helps. I would also like to know from what perspective you are speaking of? Are you speaking from the tps players perspective or the remora players perspective?

TPS is a definate dog in the matchup.

You say,
"Mystic Remora is not the worst matchup for tps."
"I would call it fifty fifty or even in our favor."
"I do think it is  a tough matchup."
"You can duress them, you can force of will them, you can chain of vapor them."

Your viewpoint of the matchup is unclear. I don't think you have a good understanding of it.

You can't really call Remora 'just a drain deck' because they have Commandeer; that spell puts them over the top. It's not even funny how good that spell is versus TPS.