Ubastax parties like its 2005 at chicago side event 3-8-09

[vroman]

so after literally not touching a vintage deck in 18 months, I found myself conveniently not making day 2 of the chicago legacy GP w nothing better to do than compete in the beta saphire side event.
based solely on Blaine Christiansen's testimony that ubastax wasn't that bad right now, and a vague description of the tezzeret and mono blue decks, I trotted out good old ubastax circa 2005.

4 mishras workshop
3 wasteland
1 strip mine
4 mountain
4 barbarian ring
1 tolarian academy
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
1 black lotus
1 mana crypt
5 mox
4 bazaar baghdad
4 tangle wire
4 uba mask
4 null rod
4 smokestack
4 chalice void
4 goblin welder
3 crucible worlds
2 duplicant
1 trinisphere
side
4 ensnaring bridge
3 rack and ruin
3 mogg fanatic
3 pithing needle
2 tormod crypt

this is card for card what Blaine has been running in weekly Boston tourneys for some time now. I sold my moxes awhile back, but still have all the other cards, so slapped this together and prepared to once again do the only thing in magic Im good at: grind out stax wins. there were 81 w lots of name players which was cool since I hadnt seen any of these ppl since 2007.

round 1 - ichorid
he wins roll and game 1 he had perfectly explosive opening w no muls turn 1 bazaar to dump dredgers, and lotus into breakthrough. this was probably going to be a turn 1 win, and I have no main deck answers any way, so I scooped to cabal therapy on the stack.
game 2 I bring in the whole board, taking out the entire stax core: nrods, smoky, tangle, crucible. I got turn 1 needle on the play, but he had color-land and careful study, which thankfully netted him no dredgers. then I got uba mask, followed by turn 3 mog fanatic and he scooped.
game 3 I debated and decided to keep workshop, bazaar, trinisphere 4xblank. this would keep him off the combo, and give me time to dig w bazaar for bridge or tormod. sadly he had an extremely efficient aggro hand and killed me on turn 3 w spell-less zombie horde.
0-1
so my gut assumption after this round, is that my pesimism is true, ubastax really is long dead, blaine must be playing against townies every week, and my vintage glory days are all behind me.

round 2 - opponent no show
1-1
despite the free win, this only serves to deepen my lack of enthusiasm for my prospects now and in the future.

round 3 - UR stax?
maybe Im getting mean spirited in my old age, but Im not going to pull any punches here. this guy was probably the worst stax player Ive ever faced. he led game 1 w great furnace 2x mox -> wheel of fortune. this drew me waste, mox, sol ring, crucible which became my turn 1. seeing my crucible+waste potential I guess, he tinkers for crucible. ok not scared. then same turn he cast welder w a fat yard, including smoky, waste and sundering titan.
I luckily topdecked my own welder and played b-ring out of the yard. I cast an irelevant chalice@1 tapping my wasteland, in the hopes he would be tempted to waste my waste, rather than b-ring, so I could get a 2nd red mana next turn and kill his welder. on his turn he pointlessly mainphase welded in sundering titan, and cast a smokestack, but at least wasted my b-ring. I drew and played bazaar, and was holding duplicant. he attacks w titan and I weld it out, expecting him to fight it so I can get the duplicant he doesnt know about into play next turn against his tapped welder. instead he just lets that weld happen, and then welds out my crucible 2nd main, and THEN wastes my bazaar. I happily dump my duplicant and upkeep take out his welder, immediately sacking the dup to soot. its now game over despite his smoky@2 and huge permanent advantage w way more moxes and land. but the punting continues. on his turn he windmill slams tolarian academy and confidently taps 11 for hardcast dsteel. I actually laughed out loud. I weld duplicant back in, sack everything except my 1/1 and my 11/11 and then weld out his smoky@3 end step and attack twice, finishing the game w just 2 permanents to his 10+.
game 2 I have an unstoppable grip. he does nothing turn 1, I play chalice@1 and am holding 2x rack and ruin. he runs out of cards fast, and I win a soot race unchallenged. the game goes to time w him at zero permanents. also I saw no volcanic islands all match, yet he had steam vents in play both games. questionable.
2-1

round 4 - faeries?
I havent followed vintage in over 1.5yrs, so maybe theres a tier deck w spellstutter sprite and vendillion clique? regardless, I got turn 1 null rod both games and he had mox+divining top dependent hands. welder tricks w the usual assortment of crucible/tangle prevented him from casting anything relevent all match. this player was competent at magic in general, but was probably a type 2 player that had been handed a vintage deck w no playtesting. he was unfamiliar with every card I played.
3-1

round 5 - tezzeret
so my first game ever vs the new blue deck of choice. he plays saphire+mana vault go. I play b-ring -> welder resolves. he plays island->tezzeret -> fetch time vault. I play bazaar, pitch null rod, whilst drawing trinisphere and manacrypt, which resolve. so my board is now null rod + trisphere + welder vs his island. he untaps things w tezzeret looking I supose to attack for 15 soon. I b-ring his tezeret and then draw smokestack and he scoops.
game 2 I get turn 1 uba and start drawing a lot w bazaar. but he drains a tangle and then flips ingot chewer now hardcastable against uba. although the rest of my board guarantees he will never activate time vault, I am unable to deal w the dreaded 3/3 beats.
game 3, brokenest hand I get all day, w workshop and lotus into trisphere + null rod. then uba, then welder. it gets ugly.
so after a string of hand-out victories, I finally beat a tier 1 deck w a competent pilot. I was never really given cause for concern during this match, and if this is the deck to beat, then my confidence surges. sure tezeret is a 1card win, but its sorcery speed so loses to tangle wire, and easily hated out w needles and rods. I was way more scared of the gifts-recoup deck back in the day.
4-1

round 6 - Jaime Cano w tezeret
intense games. I have to say this is one of the best matches Ive ever played. he wins the roll and leads w library. I play turn 1 waste+mox ->null rod, resolves, rather than just waste his library. I decide casting null rod while he has no blue in play is worth more than him drawing one extra card. he draws his bonus card and plays a blue land. I resolve welder and waste his library. he gets another blue source, and I try for tangle, which he counters, but I weld it in. he makes another land drop and passes. I draw welder and bazaar and put both down. I activate bazaar and draw 2 chalice, pitching them+smokestack. next upkeep he casts gifts and I give lotus and mystical tutor, rather than repeal and vamptutor. he drops mana crypt and mox jet simultaneously, so I make him back up, and in response to crypt, I weld out tangle for chalice@0. end step I weld the chalice back out for smokestack. in upkeep I make him tap for tangle, then weld in chalice. he makes another land drop and passes back. I bazaar again and find another smokestack. so after my upkeep my board is 2xwelder, smoke@1, smoke@2, bazaar, null rod, tangle@2. no mana, no hand. Cano has 4 tapped land, and a mostly full grip.
on his next upkeep he floats mana, casts rebuild, and sacks down to 1 land. I use my other welder to get back discarded mana crypt for smokestack. he just drops his lotus and passes. I topdeck workshop and slowroll it, just casting mana crypt, which he cracks lotus to drain, thinking its my only way to get an artifact on board. in 2nd main I play workshop-> tangle, then upkeep make him tap, and weld in chalice. from then on I reassemble all my locks and take out his board.
game 2 Cano plays delta go. I keep [2xwaste, strip, bazaar, uba, maybe some moxen]. I play waste go. he plays island go. I strip the island and cast smoky off mana vault maybe, resolves. then he plays a mox and another fetch and passes. I think I have some artifact mana and cast tangle w open waste. he cracks both fetches, thinks a long time and gets 2 islands to drain. he untaps sacs mox, then plays trop and taps it plus one drain mana to merchant scroll for recall. he passes w 2 untapped islands. after my upkeep I have bazaar, 4 mana and soot@2. I draw welder and am holding uba. he clearly is holding either drain or echoing truth. I decide to waste his trop and cast welder, rather than cast uba. this way if he has drain, he only gets 1 mana and loses his board, and if he has e-truth then Ive got welder to guarantee uba sticks next turn. so he drains my welder and upkeep casts recall but loses his board. he plays nothing and I sack the smokestack and bazaar. then topdeck mountain to cast uba, resolves. Cano watches counterspells disapear under uba while I flip a land and then welder to seal the game.   
5-1
this was an invigorating old school uba vs drain match that reminded me why I like vintage.

round 7 - Mattuzio w Landstill
I get solid workshop hands both games, w turn 1 smokestack or uba both times. Im pretty sure the only spells he cast the whole match was one mox and one force of will. in game 2 I had needles on faerie conclave and mishras factory as well.
6-1

round 8 - Duncan Keijzer w red-stax
game 1 I keep [2x uba, bazaar, mtn, b-ring, workshop, null rod] I just play mtn, go. duncan plays mtn and chalice@0. I play workshop, uba. duncan reveals waste off uba and kills my shop obv. I am waiting to play bazaar from hand, but luckily flip another bazaar in draw step. I play that and pass. duncan gets a shop and plays chalice@1. I play my other bazaar and pass again, still having only 1 mana and chalice@0+1 out. duncan draws another workshop and casts chalice@3. I draw waste and play null rod and pass again, skipping now 6 opportunities to activate bazaar under uba. duncan draws trike and plays tolarian academy, his last card out of hand. I draw just 3 cards and get a b-ring. duncan draws mana and attacks 4. I drive the engine now and draw 5 cards, hitting a workshop. duncan draws another mtn or something and hits 4 again. I draw another 5 cards and get a duplicant and my 6th mana. I start attacking for 1, while we both draw lots of chaliced out cards. then duncan draws another trike. I am outdrawing him 5:1 so its only a matter of time until I find another duplicant or 2x b-ring and 2 other red mana. I take one more trike hit, then find my 2nd duplicant, then hit him for 2/turn until hes at 6 and finish him w b-rings.
game 2 I sort of punted. Ive never played rack and ruin as my anti-artifact sideboard before, and I got greedy and waited too long to take out his team of solemn and trike. my game was severely hampered by him having viashino heretic. he dropped heretic immediately after I finished a particularly difficult bazaar discard, which sadly included a pithing needle. I had to burn a mogfan and b-ring to take out the heretic, so I could play crucible. meanwhile Im getting bashed 5/turn. I should have A) not discarded pithing needle, in anticipation of heretic B) given that mistake, I should have rack-ruined the robots before worrying about burning out heretic. instead I took a lot of damage and my manabase was mostly b-rings. so when he hardcast a 2nd trike, I was at too low life to stabilize.
game 3 he just outdrew me. I had mtn+welder+bazaar, but Duncan had 2xwelder, then he flametongue kavu my welder. its hopeless to keep relevent permanents on the table, and he runs me over.
6-2

so I finish in 6th place out of 81 players, and win...

a fucking swamp

thats right, pastimes took in two grand, and gives out guru swamps as 5th-8th prizes. if this is how vintage tourneys are run now, then I do not regret retiring at all. allow me to make myself clear:

Fuck you, Pastimes. do not expect stl vintage players back at your events.

also our head judge was Kim Jong Il who sounded like he was having a hernia every time he opened his mouth.

props to Blaine who finished right behind me in 7th w the same list, and for encouraging to dust off my workshops.

Verbal warning for violation of Rule 2, Inflammatory Posting.  -DA

[LotusHead]

a) congrats on slinging vintage cards again, and getting 6th of 81.
b) nice report, for some reason I want an audio version of it read by Stephen Colbert or Morgan Freeman
c) the slops section was kinda lacking. guru swamps, while weak, are still valuable and would look great in a trade binder. i've top 8'ed and even top 4'ed and won nothing. (small tournies, obviously) that's how it goes.
d) i ignored my shift key in your honour and still want the custom time walk we discussed well over a year ago (it's been a crazy year for me).

[Prospero]

Congrats on the finish.

Guru Swamp could be worse.  At the very least, it's a solid $30 bucks. 

I've been to tourney's where the 5th-8th prize was a draft set. 

You should keep testing, keep playing.  Your list probably wasn't optimal - and yet it was good enough to finish very well. 

[The Atog Lord]

Vroman,

While of course a shift key would have helped, that was a great report. I really was able to experience going through a tournament with Uba Stax while reading it, and I'm glad you posted it. Congratulations on taking a top eight spot in your first Vintage tournament in over a year.

Your prize was actually worse than a Basic Swamp. It was a Foil Basic Swamp, since Guru lands have foiling on them in the expansion symbol. I'd have been very upset too.

[Bill Copes]

They should have given you a Guru mountain.  That would have been playable in the deck, at least.

[BC]

I played the same maindeck.  My sideboard was:

4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Rack and Ruin

Maybe I'll piggyback my tournament report on here later, since it also fits the theme of the thread. 

[Smmenen]

I was honestly shocked when they announced the prize support.  I couldn't believe it.    I expected them to give away at least 4 pieces of power with 78 players.   

It was great to see you in action again Vroman.

Did anyone get top 8 decklists?

[Anusien]

Nice report, and I'm glad to see you were back in action.  I wish I could have gotten over the event to meet all the Vintage players I'd never met, but I had a 230 person PTQ, so...

also our head judge was Kim Jong Il who sounded like he was having a hernia every time he opened his mouth.

Edwin is actually a really awesome judge.  He was having throat issues because he was recovering from a cold from earlier in the week.  30+ hours into a GP is physically very hard on judges.

[BC]

Did anyone get top 8 decklists?

If I saw what I think I saw, Duncan (Vroman's 8th round opponent) took all the decklists with him.  Hopefully he will post results.  I know that there were 3 Ichorid decks and 3 Stax decks in the top 8.

[cowtippa]

I was 7th going into the last round playing yesphuren's shop aggro list.  I was 3-0-1 against tezzerator for the day, the deck just hardcore loses to null rod.

[Duncan]

Thanks for the report Vroman!

Did anyone get top 8 decklists?

If I saw what I think I saw, Duncan (Vroman's 8th round opponent) took all the decklists with him.  Hopefully he will post results.  I know that there were 3 Ichorid decks and 3 Stax decks in the top 8.

That is correct, I am typing them out right now. I always enjoy reading t8 lists and I think it's part of organizing a tournament to post the lists on the internet. They said they weren't going to, so I offered to type them all out. (with the added bonus of taking tech of 80 vintage players back to Holland).

round 8 - Duncan Kreijer w red-stax

Minor nitpick, my last name's Keijzer  That first game was one of the craziest games i've ever played, with 3 chalices and uba out.

I was a bit disappointed in the organisation too. The prizes shocked me. There was $2000 of entry fees collected and only about $1000 of them was spend on prizes. Also, the gap between first and second place prize (Beta Sapphire and Grim Tutor) was too big in my opinion. Especially if you run a Swiss+1 Tournament, not a tournament with a top 8. Swiss+1 sucks, because I did not get to play Brett Piazza for first place. 5-8th prizes were also disappointing. On top of that, I found it inconvenient that there was no clock, and the judges sometimes said different ending times for the round.

However, I had a great time getting to play (and beat) you american guys  and I'm happy with my Tutor and result. Your Vintage scene is awesome!

[chief]

I was disappointed to lose to brett in the last round, as that loss bumped me from beta sapphire to guru swamp.  I must admit, however, that my loss was all my fault.  I made three glaring errors over the course of the match, and they cost me.  The worst of these was that, despite the fact that he dredged his entire library game 2, I didn't realize he wasn't packing leyline.  If I had taken note of this information, I would have taken a different course with my mulligan game 3.  Also, I failed to activate tormod's crypt at the appropriate time, allowing two narcomoebas to enter play when I should have just nuked the bin right there with them on the stack.  My third mistake was trying to use drawstep dredges to get there against him while hiding behind my crypt.  If I were to play that game again with the hand I kept, I would take actual draw steps to try and find more gas instead of going down the road I did. The path I took really only has one eventuality in the mirror when your opponent has bazaar- losing.

I had fun with the event overall, but I must share in the expressed disgust regarding the prize pool.  I must admit that it was a very nice mox, though.

[TopSecret]

but the punting continues. on his turn he windmill slams tolarian academy and confidently taps 11 for hardcast dsteel. I actually laughed out loud.

Well, at least this guy lost with style.
If I was going to lose, I'd certainly want to hardcast a Darksteel Colossus to enable the most over-the-top death possible.

Thanks for writing the report,
and congrats on your Swamp.

[John Jones]

Yeah, this entire tournament was bullshit. Having no top 8 was ridiculous. I was Was 3-0 then I faced Lou's Dredge list and got my face raped by leyline of the void. Then the next roudn I went against some frenchie who dealt 20 points of damage with a single shadowmage infiltrator as I could not get red or black mana to stick.  I played Ctrl Slaver.

Also, another thing pasttimes did was that before the tournament a friend and I went and registered (about 10 mins before parings) and the head judge/what ever the fuck the guy was (really dumb hair cut, kinda parted to the side, looks like a pedophile) and we asked if we could still join the t1 tourny. He said sure with no mention of us playing each other. Low and behold they put up parings and were both not on there so we went and asked the guy and hes like ohh you two just play each other... Now, my friend is my cousin and were basicly brothers. If we were going to play each other first round knowing we can't draw because there is no top 8 we wouldn't have played. Overall, Pastimes is the worst fucking company in the world for running events. They didn't even book a place large enough to have the exteneded tournament  (supposed to register at like 2 and paly at 3) instead, we have an 8 round tournament starting at 6:00. Nice going Pasttimes, I will be sure to attend every event you ever host.

Verbal warning for violation of Rule 2, Inflammatory Posting.  -DA

[vassago]

Wow! It seems like it was an awesome tournament, aside from the people running it i guess. I would have to agree that at a shindig of the size this one was, if they are going to hand out basic lands as top eight prizes, thats kind of gay.  Maybe if they were summer magic lands I wouldnt complain.   I wish I could have taken the time away from work to attend. Meh, maybe the next big one. 

A good friend of mine told who played this event, Jay Webb, said he saw many of Inkwell Leviathan.  This interests me, any body want to chime in and tell me what you thought about running this duder above DSC?  Is the extra turn worth it?  Also, has the pitch effect for DSC from TFK just not worth it at that point?

[Isaac85]

This report is to good. The fucking swamp had me rolling at work at someone asked if I was ok. One thing I should mention though man even though pastimes had horrendous prize support think of the fun of the games you played. Major props to you for returning and doing what you do best.

[M.Solymossy]

This event was definitely horseshit, and shows Alan (pastimes Owner)'s lack of care for what his player base wants. 

Less than $1000 in total prizes.  No top 8.  AWFUL.  I will never be to another non-premier event ran by pastimes.

[Razvan]

Vroman, awesome report as always. Your style is very fun to read. Congratulations on your finish, too bad about the prizes. Also, obviously, 2 Uba stax in top 8 is very nice to see.

[BC]

Here's my short, much less informative report.  I played the same list as Vroman, with just a few changes to the sideboard.

Rd 1: Bryan Fisher - UBG Time Vault deck
Game 1 he plays out a bunch of Moxen, Top, Key, etc., but no lands.  I have a Null Rod in my opening 7, but I bait with a few other spells (Chalice, Tangle Wire) that stick around.  On my second or third turn I play the Null Rod and it also sticks.  He scoops.
Game 2 he sides in a bunch of creatures.  I am quickly beaten to death by Tarmogoyf and Trygon Predator.  
Game 3 he also gets an early Tarmogoyf that hits me for 3 per turn.  I get a Welder and Uba and eventually hit a Duplicant and a second Welder.  He scoops to potential Dups recursion.  
1-0

Rd 2: Dan - Tezzeret
Game 1 he gets a turn 2 Tinker for DSC.  No chance to come back.
Game 2 I don't remember much, but I win.
Game 3 he has several explosive turns, including an early Yawg Will that gets him a second Ancestral Recall.  He has dozens of mana sources on board, and hard casts DSC thanks to some Drain mana.  I do not recover.
1-1

Rd 3: Jake - WB Fish
This was an interesting deck, but one that I was not scared of at all.  It had Glowriders, Bob, Mindcensor, Orim's Chant, etc.  His only chance was for a Bob to stick for many turns.
Game 1 we Wasteland back and forth for many turns, while I have us locked under a Trinisphere.  I draw more lands than he does and lock the game.
Gmae 2 has us shooting more Wastelands at each other.  He gets a Bob to stick, but he gets taken out by a Mogg Fanatic.  I beat with a Duplicant and recursive Barbarian Rings.
2-1

Rd 4: James King - Oath
Game 1 I don't really remember, other than the fact that he drew many many cards and never found an Oath.  I win.
Game 2 he also has trouble finding an Oath, but he gets there eventually.  Meanwhile I am slowly beating with 2 Spirit tokens.  Progenitus shows his face and makes short work of me.
Game 3 was a tight one.  He lands Oath, but I get an Ensnaring Bridge and eventually 2 Welders while Progenitus and Empyrial Archangel are staring at me from across the Bridge.  I definitely don't play optimally and almost give him a chance to play Wipe Away and win, but I Waste 2 of his lands at the last possible moment and then get a Smokestack up to 2 to put pressure on his board.  We go to time, but James very coolly scoops to me due to my superior board position and the fact that he was pretty much over this tournament.  
3-1

Rd 5: Jonathan - TPS
Game 1 I Wasteland his turn 1 Underground Sea and play Chalice @ 0.  He plays draw-go for several turns while I assemble my board.  I win.
Game 2 I land a Pyrostatic Pillar on my second turn.  A few turns later he Rebuilds all my artifacts, and is able to finish the combo at 2 life largely due to finding Tendrils with Mind's Desire.
Game 3 I get another early Pyrostatic Pillar, and this time he is not able to crawl out from under it.  After the match he tells me that if I had not had the Tolarian Academy on my board this game, he could have tutored for his and won.  How lucky.
4-1

Rd 6: Pierre (aka Intense French Guy) - UB Fish
Game 1 he starts off fast with a Dimir Cutpurse which beats for a few turns.  Eventually he makes me discard until I have threshold, then Barbarian Ring takes out the Cutpurse.  Next he lands a Dark Confidant which immediately starts flipping over 2-3 CC cards for consecutive turns.  Although he is drawing multiple cards every turn, he draws virtually no lands, and a Tangle Wire slows him down enough that he dies to his own Confidant flips.  
Game 2 it's more of the same as he again has trouble drawing lands.  I have a vastly superior board this game, and beat with Mogg Fanatics until he scoops.
5-1

Rd 7: Jamison Bryant - Ichorid
Game 1 I have little hope, but get an early Trinisphere and some irrelevant lock pieces to at least make it interesting.  Regardless, he beats me handily.  
Game 2 I have a lot more confidence since most of my board is relevant in this matchup.  I keep a 6 card hand with 2 Tormod's Crypt, Wasteland, Welder, Chalice, something else.  My Tormod's Crypts buy me plenty of time to draw a Red mana source, enabling my Welder to get the Crypts back online.  Eventually I get Uba lock and after a judge call to confirm that Uba Mask is back to its original functionality Jamison scoops.

ATTENTION: UBA MASK HAS RECEIVED ERRATA THAT RESTORES IT TO ITS ORIGINAL FUNCTIONALITY

Game 3 the only relevant hate card in my opening hand is Mogg Fanatic, but from my experience that is often enough to buy several turns.  Unfortunately, my Fanatic gets Darkblasted on Jamison's second turn and I am forced to use it to kill a Narcomoeba, removing 0 Bridges from the graveyard.  At this point I am basically caught with my pants down and he kills me with many many Zombies while I play irrelevant cards like Smokestack.
5-2

Rd 8: Brandon - Control Slaver
Game 1 he starts off strong, drawing lots of cards and Rack and Ruining my Tangle Wire/Smokestack combo.  He gets a Gorilla Shaman to eat my artifacts and Tinkers for a Triskelevus to kill my Welders.  Fortunately, that's pretty much where his pressure ends.  I get to threshold and B Ring his Triskelevus while he's tapped out.  I draw another Welder and eventually am able to weld in a Duplicant to take out his Monkey while he is tapped out again.  Uba Mask sticks and I start drawing 3 cards per turn, flooding the board with efficient prison artifacts.  
Game 2 I don't remember much, other than it ended with me being beaten for 4/turn with a semi-large robot.
Game 3 we don't have much time to finish the match, but fortunately we don't need much time.  I land 2 early Mogg Fanatics which beat every turn and keep him from playing his Welder.  Many lock pieces come into play and he scoops.
6-2

I finish in 7th place and took home an awesome Guru Swamp.  The tournament was a lot of fun, and I'm glad so many Vintage players decided to participate.  The prizes were embarrassingly shitty, as was the Swiss+1 format.  Pastimes should be ashamed of themselves.  Also, I am 100% serious when I report that I went 0-8 on dice rolls this tournament, which I think made me approximately 2-15 on dice rolls for the weekend.  I can only imagine the power of Uba Stax on the play game 1.

[DoubleDrain]

Vroman,

Props for the top 8 - sorry for the lack of awesomeness for all you non-beta sapphire winners.

Glad to see you slinging workshops around again... hopefully we get a chance to battle again (Are you going to Gencon?).

Peace!

Travis

[vroman]

thanks all, it felt good to compete again. I was a little rusty and probably should have played heretic bc Im more used to it than rack-ruin. though RR is probably better once I remember how instants work.
I dont regret the muligan decision in game 3 round 1, bc the fastest he can kill me wo casting spells is on his turn 4, so I definitely get 3 turns, which w draw steps and bazaar means I will see another 7 cards, so thats better than muliganing which only lets me see 6 cards.

as for gencon, probably not, but I'll consider it

[DuKeLiO]

Hi, I'm Jaime Cano, your oponent of the 5th round.
I also enjoy the games a lot, it were like the Gifts vs. UBA Stax matchups from 2005 XD, but you have the advantage of not having restricted Gifts Ungiven and Brainstorm from your deck  XD.
In the second game I played wrong in my second turn, and it probably costs me the game. The correct play was play the second fetchland instead of island for having Mana Drain online for your smokestack. I forgot your Strip Mine and lose.
I lost two rounds against MWS.dec, while I think it isn't a bad matchup for my deck.
Nice to met you, and all the others american player (and Netherlands ones, Duncan)!!

[GoblinNick]

Also, another thing pasttimes did was that before the tournament a friend and I went and registered (about 10 mins before parings) and the head judge/what ever the fuck the guy was (really dumb hair cut, kinda parted to the side, looks like a pedophile) and we asked if we could still join the t1 tourny. He said sure with no mention of us playing each other. Low and behold they put up parings and were both not on there so we went and asked the guy and hes like ohh you two just play each other... Now, my friend is my cousin and were basicly brothers. If we were going to play each other first round knowing we can't draw because there is no top 8 we wouldn't have played. Overall, Pastimes is the worst fucking company in the world for running events. They didn't even book a place large enough to have the exteneded tournament  (supposed to register at like 2 and paly at 3) instead, we have an 8 round tournament starting at 6:00. Nice going Pasttimes, I will be sure to attend every event you ever host.

I'm posting this as a judge and friendly face of the vintage community.  This is not a Pastimes plug post from me.  I assume most of you have seen me judging at enough Vintage Champs and the Chicago P9 back in 2007.

Please refrain from comparing the appearance of judges to pedophiles, Kim Jong Il, or whatever.  These people are friends who I work with fairly frequently, and I find resorting to such name calling on a public forum very offensive, and I have far less respect for you for doing so.  I enjoy supporting the Vintage community, but if you're going to act like children, I'm not going to be as supportive.

The judge has no say in who plays who.  He/she can determine if it is okay for you to sign up late, but it is up to the score keeper to handle the pairings.  If you are not entered until after pairings have been printed, you will be paired against other late entrants.

We DID NOT plan on having a 1,230 person Grand Prix.  If that was the expectation, the room would have been bigger.  The expectation was in the 900-1000 person range.  This would have left plenty of room for the other scheduled public events and they would have been able to start on time.  The judge who ran the Extended for the Recall is a very good friend of mine, and the event started at 5:00 (only an hour delay).  It was only delayed one hour while waiting for table space to open up.  We did not enjoy having to hold off public events on Saturday.

Nick Rzeczkowski
Level 2, Chicago

[DameonHv]

The views and opinions expressed in this post are strictly those of the post author. The contents of this post have not been reviewed or approved by Pastimes, Inc.

Well said, Nick.  Many of the posts here have been rude or downright offensive.  It's childish and entirely unnecessary.  As I stated in my other post it isn't that Alan doesn't respect what the players want, it's that we were unable to change the format due to many restrictions, including staff availability and a Cinderella time imposed by the venue.  Nick was also spot on in addressing the space issue.  We had about 300 more players than we expected for the main and every side event therefore had more people register for it than we had estimated.  We did the best we could with the space we expected we would need.  No one could have anticipated the record-breaking attendance for Legacy of all things.

As for the prizes, a number of players have expressed a sentiment akin to this one:

c) the slops section was kinda lacking. guru swamps, while weak, are still valuable and would look great in a trade binder. i've top 8'ed and even top 4'ed and won nothing. (small tournies, obviously) that's how it goes.

The wide disparity in opinions expressed here is very telling.  I feel that some of this comes from the very different prize support seen in different formats.  Many of the TOs for Vintage promise large prize pools to try to breath life into the format.  I recall seeing a number of posts over the years explaining how big of a hit the TO took for running with the prizes they advertised.  Standard, Limited, and even Extended events are very often for product or store credit, and not for a large quantity of it.  The prize support certainly could have been better, but at least there was Vintage to be had.  I was grateful to have the opportunity to play at all as I play this game to have fun, not to make money.

-Josh

[Sean Ryan]

Vroman,

Good to see you back.

I couldn't remember, did you always forgo Resistors in Uba Stax?  I would be interested to find out the pros and cons of running Uba or Sphere.  Tommy Kowlith recently posted a win with Spheres over Uba Mask.

Sean   

[vroman]

its not a question of whether guru swamps are worth $30 or $0. its the fact that they gave out 40% payout period. thats abysmal. the state lottery has better return. the grand prix took in $36k and paid out $30k, thats 80%, in cash. its not like they didnt have shit loads of fugly chrome moxes to hand out in spades to pad the pool.
swiss+1 is irrel, Ive never complained about that, bc I understand the time problem of 2 more rounds. I didnt get home til 4am. if Id heard in advance we'd be playing for 40% of the take, see you later.

as for resistor vs uba, never been a fan of resistor. doesnt change their fundamental problem of either building up mana to hurkyl/rebuild and go off, or losing. uba trumps the strategy of crafting a game winning hand while waiting for mass bounce. also its a turbo draw engine often enough. and thanks to everyone in the errata dept finally calming the fuck down, uba can still be used as the draw step lock, though admitedly this is an infrequent play.
resistor serves as sort of non-recurrable extra wasteland slots, that can randomly vanish if they have echoing truth et al. I think they clutter the deck. their function is sort of redundant w crucible, and they make non-workshop hands much harder to play.
resistor has only ever shined for me vs storm. since they need to cast 10spells in a turn, resistor is like setting them back 10 mana sources. against decks like tez, which is archetypally similar to control slaver, resistor sucked, bc they were typically only playing 1 spell/turn anyway, so resistor was only getting face value benefit, which is too fair to play in stax.
and still, while storm cant really win through resistor, they cant really win through anything, so the plan is always to manuever through the locks to get off a rebuild, and then take the easy lay up against an empty court. resistor is just one more peice on the board they have to use their cards in hand to overcome. uba doesnt let them get a hand.
also resistor is really only good turn 1. its a terrible topdeck. whereas uba can markedly impact the game at any point

[Juggernaut GO]

The judge has no say in who plays who.  He/she can determine if it is okay for you to sign up late, but it is up to the score keeper to handle the pairings.  If you are not entered until after pairings have been printed, you will be paired against other late entrants.

This is complete horseshit, i've re-paired round 1 before playing started in a 120 ish player tournament without any issue and doing so in the interest of being fair on who got the bye since the late person who signed up ended up being an odd player.

Your system of doing so would probably just to of given him the bye and moved on instead of taking 3 minutes to enter the player and re-pair the round.


you are just lazy, and whoever made the decision deserves to be made fun of.

Also, I love tournament organizers who act the part that they are doing the vintage community a "FAVOR" by holding a vintage tournament and stealing 60% of the prize pool as house fees.

You are greedy bitches, end of story.

Travis, please don't start us down this road again.  Verbal warning for violation of Rule-- yeah, ok, you've heard it all before.  -DA

[Pastimes]

Alan from Pastimes here.
So… I was going to ignore the comments here.  People have a problem with our prizes or some of the decisions we make in our organization…  well, everyone has their differences of opinion.  A friend of mine likes to say “opinions are like belly buttons – everybody has one.”

But.

But, I have decided that I cannot sit by when people are rude, abusive, immature and bigoted about my staff.  You want to have it out with my decisions – no problem.  We can chat all day and realize that it comes down to a difference of opinion (not that mine cannot be changed).  You want to be offensive to one of the people who actually make it possible for you to have the events and to who I believe are the backbones of competitive play – sorry, it doesn’t float.

I will go on record here as saying that there are going to be people who will not agree with what I have to say here – and I am not going to sway them.  I am hoping those of you who read their inane comments will also read this and realize that there is actually another side to the story – other than the squeaky wheels.

So now you have me talking….(do you know how long winded I am? Sorry in advance – but please read)

So… away we go!

Vroman:
(A)   so I finish in 6th place out of 81 players, and win...
(B)   a fucking swamp
(C)   thats right, pastimes took in two grand, and gives out guru swamps as 5th-8th prizes. if this is how vintage tourneys are run now, then I do not regret retiring at all. allow me to make myself clear:

Fuck you, Pastimes. do not expect stl vintage players back at your events.

(D)   also our head judge was Kim Jong Il who sounded like he was having a hernia every time he opened his mouth.


Alan:
A:  Guess you should have won first and taken home the Beta Sapphire….

B:  We value the Guru Lands at about $30-$40 (the last few to end on Ebay were over $35 and Star City sells them for $40…)  Sorry you don’t collect them – maybe you can trade them to someone who cares…  there are obviously plenty of people out there that do.  (I will get into the prize support issue in a sec… please keep reading)

C:  While we are always sorry to see players unhappy… I am sure we will figure out a way to have the tournaments go on without you.  OR, we can actually have a discussion and see if there is not a way for both sides to be happy (at least about prizes… about you being an immature bigot – well, I can’t help that….  )

D:  Oh yeah… that comment.  Nice.  I am not really sure how to reply to people on this except that if you made that comment in front of me during an event you would be ejected for unsportsmanlike idiocy and removed from the venue permanently.  Wow – that would have solved so many issues!  Seriously… I am sure you thought that was funny… and I guess we know what camp that puts you in.

Ah… and more enlightened comments from “John Jones”

“and the head judge/what ever the fuck the guy was (really dumb hair cut, kinda parted to the side, looks like a pedophile)”
Alan:   “John”, while I am sure you are a thing of beauty (don’t know who you are or what you look like) I would like to think that if I saw you I would not pass judgment (certainly not on a public forum) regarding what your “interests” are…    Seriously… after you posted this you know you went back and read it…and you really thought that was necessary, smart or fair?

Okay folks – let’s chat about what has been bugging many of you and not about the stupid comments made by people who … well, I don’t know what the hell they were thinking.

1.    Structure.  Why was this Swiss+1 and not Swiss with a cut to a Top 8?

Answer:  When we set up the Grand Prix we wanted to get in a solid Vintage event.  Sunday was the spot where we could put it – but we did not want to compete directly with the PTQ in the morning.  We wanted to run a big Extended tournament on Saturday afternoon as prep for the PTQ and Saturday night we wanted anyone who had their Legacy deck from the GP to be able to play in another event.  So again, Sunday afternoon it was.  We expected around 50 players which would be six rounds of Swiss  which would end at around 9 p.m.  A cut to a Top 8 would have the event ending after Midnight.  We had to be completely cleared out of the hall by Midnight (completely – move out was before that).  Also, every one of the judges and ops personnel had basically been on hand since early Friday… we knew it would be a LONG weekend.  With these bits I called some folks from WoTC to discuss Swiss+1 and found that it is becoming very standard for events at the Public Events area of Pro Tours, Nationals etc…  I was well aware that it was not ideal – but it was about the only option we had.  So we advertised it as Swiss +1 so people would know ahead of time and could decide whether they wanted to play in this event or not….  It was every player’s choice whether to play in this event or not – obviously.  We knew that we might lose players based on the event being Swiss+1, but it was a conscious choice that was WELL discussed in advance.

And then we come to the weekend of the event and I have a bunch of people asking me to switch it… and I really considered switching it.  I considered making it Swiss with a cut, Single Elim, straight Swiss… several options.  And in the end, I went with what we advertised… and you know why…..  because no matter what I chose – I would lose.  If I changed it, some people would complain that it was advertised as Swiss+1 and they planned to get home before midnight.  If I made it any format – there would be a group that was not happy.  So we left the structure as advertised – so everyone was aware of what they were getting into when they started.  Again – I am not saying I would do it the same way again… I would seriously consider the different options – but I had to make a decision and I thought this was the best one.

2.   Prizes.   I won’t quote anyone from the forums here, but let’s just say that some of you thought they were not “fair”.

Answer:  What’s “fair.”  First, please understand what I do for a living… I run events and I sell games.  That is how I pay for my kids to eat and how I pay to put a roof over my family’s head.  That is what I do.  Every week we risk paying for rent, prizes and employees with the hopes to turn a profit so my employees can keep their jobs and I can keep my store.  Sometimes we win… sometimes we lose.   In this forum you guys are deciding what is “fair” for me to make from this event.  In my opinion we gave away about $1100-$1300 in cards (Beta Sapphire, Grim Tutor, a couple Foil Polluted Deltas (I think) and 4 Guru Lands .  If only 15 of you had shown up, would you have been “ok” if I had said, “well – we didn’t get enough people to justify giving away the Beta Sapphire, so here is a Library and a Mana Drain instead.”  I don’t think that would have sat well with you.

And please consider a couple of other expenses that a store or organizer has when putting on an event…  - the venue and the staff.  There were three judges for this event (not counting the scorekeeper as he was doing other events as well).  The venue was hugely expensive – and yes, there was a big GP to pay for that – but we did not know how many would be there for the GP and we have to count all the events towards the bottom line.  You can also throw in the fact that the Vintage event, as part of the overall event, also cost me for: insurance, clean-up, tables, chairs, P/A and security.  Those were all costs that I incurred when running this event.  And we take all the events income towards those costs. 

I also strongly believe that the majority of what we provide is entertainment.  If you are not playing Magic for fun… you really are in the wrong thing….  So, my guess is that about half of the people reading this or more have gone to see Watchmen (what did you think? Me, about 2 ½ stars).  I know that when I went, I paid $12 for my IMAX ticket and $9 for popcorn and a diet coke – (now you want to talk about unfair!)  So I dropped about $20 for a movie that barely entertained me for two hours.  There was no personal attention.  If I called “judge” during that movie I would have been thrown out!  I left with nothing but a memory from the movie and butter stains on my shirt.  But I knew going in it was a cost of entertainment.  I figured I deserved to take the standee in the lobby as a prize for being there – but silly me, they threatened to call the police!  It sounds to me like most folks had a really good time at the GP and at the Vintage tournament – which is my goal.  Handing out over a thousand dollars of prize seemed like a fun extra!

I know that a lot of stores run events and give back everything in prizes.  I have three comments about that:  1. Look at how many stores have gone out of business in the past 10 years for not worrying about their bottom line.  (Pastimes is now in its 18th year) 2. They are not worried about making money on their event (foolish) , they are just hoping you will buy cards, candy or whatever.  I hope this works for them – it is not my model. 3. When those stores go out of business, you lose places to play.  Support them, they need you and you need them!

As far as handing everything back in prizes, I can’t afford to do this.  You all want events – even big events?  You need organizers who are willing to take a risk and who will put up prizes (umm… there was a Beta Mox Sapphire guaranteed here) and have certified judges etc…  Sometimes we make money on our events, sometime we do not.  (Someone said we made 60% from this event - it actually comes out to about 15-20%)  I look at our event income at the end of the year and hope it is in the black – so that next year I can be back and seeing you at even more fun events!


Okay – I am almost off my soapbox, and I know I did not answer every comment from this thread.  But please read a couple more things:

1.    If you are ever upset about how an event is set up, the prizes, a judge, or how a scorekeeper handled something – find the Organizer and talk to them.  We do honestly like mature feedback!  That doesn’t mean we agree, it means that we can actually dialogue about what the issue is.  Don’t be abusive, don’t start name calling or be a jerk – try talking TO the organizer, not behind his back about him and the people who helped make the event a fun event that was run with integrity.

And while I am not saying that people should not air their feelings on public boards – maybe you want to take a breath and contact the person you are going to accuse in advance of that and see what they have to say.   Maybe there is a good reason it happened and then you don’t have to post.  Maybe you still disagree in which case you can always post afterwards.

2.   If you have issues with Pastimes and any part of our organization you can email me directly – alan @ pastimes . net   If it is serious, please call our store at 847-470-9636 and tell them you need to speak to me.

I LIKE TO TALK TO PLAYERS.  If you have an idea, suggestion or want to become involved – let me know.  I am insanely interested and approachable.

3.   DO NOT INSULT MY JUDGES OR OTHER STAFF.  While I am extremely patient and understand that sometimes things do not go your way… there is no excuse for this.  NONE.  And it will not be tolerated.  I seriously hope that after this post some of the people here will re-think what they have said and consider editing and apologizing…  and even then I am not sure that it will do any good.  Cat is out of the bag on this….  And I am debating what I am going to do about it. 

Thanks everyone for “listening”, feel free to be in touch.  I hope to see you soon.

Alan
www.pastimes.net

[M.Solymossy]

I gotta take back anything negative I had said after Alan himself personally posted here.  Most people would just ignore it and move on, without running events.  Alan chose to speak on this subject, and I respect that.

[Duncan]

Alan,
I really appreciate you took the time to come to these boards en respond. I can agree with your reasoning but I would like you to consider these things for future events:
- I (and I think most players) can agree with a prize-support based on attendance. Handing ou a beta mox with just 15 players also makes no sense. Communicating this prize-support in advance should take away any comments. Also it might stimulate people to take more of their friends with them so that better prizes will be given.
- Adjust your prize support to the format you are running. With a t8 you get to play against the people you compete with for the prizes and perhaps work out a split. With swiss+1 you can not. For me it was somewhat strange to see nr1 walk away with a prize 7 times worth mine, although he had only 1 point more and I never had the chance to play him (I think a had  a good shot, already going 2-0 against Ichorid in matches).

I had a great event and am happy with prize, but some things could've been smoother I think.