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Smmenen
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« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2009, 01:11:31 pm » |
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For the record: my criticism is not of the swiss+1 (which I agree was reasonable), but of the prize support for a tournament of that size.
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Sean Ryan
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« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 02:25:29 pm » |
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"Oh no, look at all those Bazaars and Shops, with only one Drain deck. What are we going to do?!?!?!? "
Hopefully this should silence the idiots calling for Mana Drains restrictions.
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Vintage - Time Vault vs Null Rod
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Duncan
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Posts: 312
Team R&D
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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2009, 06:27:55 pm » |
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For the record: my criticism is not of the swiss+1 (which I agree was reasonable), but of the prize support for a tournament of that size.
I agree with this. Collecting over $2000 worth of entry fees and handing out prizes worth slightly less than $1000 (mox @700, grim tutor @110, 2 foil delta @100, 4 swamp @80 (although I hardly doubt a lot of people are interested in swamps for prize payout) equals 990) seems unreasonable. ps. Thanks for all the thank yous and it was nice to meet you all! Typing out the decklists was only 45 minutes work. I strongly encourage everyone to make sure the lists of a tournament they attended will be posted. Everybody likes looking at posted t8/t4 lists  |
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« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 06:31:54 pm by Duncan »
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"Good things may come to those who wait, but they are merely leftovers from great things that come to those who act.”
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dark burn
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« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2009, 10:46:51 pm » |
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I really dont understand how people can complain about the prize support of events like these. The prize support was half of the money taken in. So they doubled their investment. When you go out and buy a tshirt the costs are way higher. First you have your manufacturer. They sell it to the distributor for about twice what it costs to make. So thats doubling their investment. Then the distributor sells it to the retailer for about 250% of what they bought it for. That is now more than double their investment. Then the retailer marks the price up another 200-300% and sells to the customer. Thats how companies make money.
I did not include the cost of labor, materials, time, taxes or any other expenses to simplify it a little. These costs are all taken out of the percentage of markup. That means that each level makes less than half of their actual markup.
So, the tournament brought in 2k and gave away 900 in prizes. Thats $1100 left. From this they have to pay employees salaries, rental space, electricity, travel, food, and misc. expenses. So thats 2 employees running the event @$15 an hour because its the weekend for 8 hrs. 8*15*2=$240 for the employees. $1100-$240=$860 Then you take out another $100 for the space and misc expenses. $860-$100=$760.
The Tourament organizer probably made about $760 on the event. Thats just a bit more (percentage wise) than a distributor would make on a tshirt. Wow what a huge profit for organizing an event, gathering prize support, advertizing, and making the event run smoothly.
MAGIC PLAYERS ARE GREEDY.
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Juggernaut GO
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« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2009, 10:52:39 pm » |
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sounds to me like pastimes' bathroom needs to fall victim to a few upper deckers.
your rationale for stealing 1100 dollars from magic players is flawed.
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Rand Paul is a stupid fuck, just like his daddy. Let's go buy some gold!!!
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vroman
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« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2009, 11:02:23 pm » |
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...tshirts are hella marked up...
the market supports that bc americans dont want to work in textile factories. we'll see how long the market will support 40% payout vintage events. I for one wouldn't even consider attending a tourney more than 5min from my house that pocketed 60%. |
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com |
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arik124
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« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2009, 11:08:35 pm » |
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I think that prize support should be equal to the full retail equivalent of the entry received. For example if 25 people show up and you charge 25 per person then $625 in CARDS should be given out. Most dealers will agree that if they give out $625 in support they probably spent around $350 in actual dolllars collecting it. This way the tourney can be advertised as 100% payout [pretty much true] and the person running the event is still making enough so that he will want to KEEP running tournaments.
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I don't remember anyone ever scooping to a Null Rod...
The same cannot be said of Yawgmoth's Will.
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Wobbles
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« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2009, 01:04:51 am » |
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Had I known the other Duncan was going to show up, I would have gone to GP Chicago. As it was, Lou and Brett repped CO just fine.
Duncan Anderson
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Tha Gunslinga
Full Members
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Posts: 1583
De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
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« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2009, 01:27:30 am » |
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I really dont understand how people can complain about the prize support of events like these. The prize support was half of the money taken in. So they doubled their investment. When you go out and buy a tshirt the costs are way higher. First you have your manufacturer. They sell it to the distributor for about twice what it costs to make. So thats doubling their investment. Then the distributor sells it to the retailer for about 250% of what they bought it for. That is now more than double their investment. Then the retailer marks the price up another 200-300% and sells to the customer. Thats how companies make money.
I did not include the cost of labor, materials, time, taxes or any other expenses to simplify it a little. These costs are all taken out of the percentage of markup. That means that each level makes less than half of their actual markup.
So, the tournament brought in 2k and gave away 900 in prizes. Thats $1100 left. From this they have to pay employees salaries, rental space, electricity, travel, food, and misc. expenses. So thats 2 employees running the event @$15 an hour because its the weekend for 8 hrs. 8*15*2=$240 for the employees. $1100-$240=$860 Then you take out another $100 for the space and misc expenses. $860-$100=$760.
The Tourament organizer probably made about $760 on the event. Thats just a bit more (percentage wise) than a distributor would make on a tshirt. Wow what a huge profit for organizing an event, gathering prize support, advertizing, and making the event run smoothly.
MAGIC PLAYERS ARE GREEDY.
How about you compare it to a passenger car, which the manufacturor makes basically no money on but produces in order to keep market share? |
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Don't tolerate splittin'
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dark burn
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« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2009, 10:11:25 pm » |
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That would be great if you want the TO to go out of buisness like the car manufacturors.
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vroman
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« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2009, 11:39:27 pm » |
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That would be great if you want the TO to go out of buisness like the car manufacturors.
so gaming stores now have huge clout unions and protectionist tarrifs? lets drop all the erroneous economic analogies. just talking about whats fair is irrelevent. if a store advertises a 50% payout tourney in advance, and ppl show up, then thats whats fair. if a store advertises 100% payout and no one shows, then thats not fair. Ive played in plenty of events that were 100+% payout (at retail prices of course). whatever the market will bear. |
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com |
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Grand Inquisitor
Always the play, never the thing
Adepts
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« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2009, 08:54:04 am » |
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erroneous economic analogies ... whatever the market will bear |
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There is not a single argument in your post. Just statements that have no meaning. - Guli
It's pretty awesome that I did that - Smmenen
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dark burn
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« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2009, 11:13:16 am » |
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The reason I am arguing about this so much is because I really want there to be more tournaments available for vintage. When players complain about and feel cheated because of a prize payout they will be less likely to show up for the event. When the TO feels like they cannont make any money on an event they wont be willing to hold more tournaments. I just want people to understand how much it takes to organize a large tournament like this one.
What I want from tournaments is a guaranteed prize payout, and a clean environment that is well organized. I also want every TO to make plenty of money on the event so they will be willing to hold many more. If these three things happen consistently, there will be many more tournaments that will help grow vintage.
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