TnT 2K9 : another approach

[beder]

Hi,

First, sorry for my English, this is a message from France.

Nowadays, null rod strategies are really competitive. SMenendian even wrote a whole article about the Power 8 of non powered decks – Chalice + Null Rod.

On the basis of this framework, I built a deck that I played during the last 2 months on mws (I know this is not like real test, but that’s all I can do for the time being). It could be seen as a revisiting of all school TnT, with a different perspective. Nevertheless, let’s call it TnT 2K9.
This is a combo hate deck and the results are pretty interesting.

Without further talking, let’s have a look at the proposed list proposed.

// Lands (21)
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Forest

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

// Mana accelerators
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

// Creatures
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
   
4 Goblin Welder

1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Anger

1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

// Artifact package
4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void

// Search and combo
4 Survival of the Fittest

// Small tool kit
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gamble
1 Ancient Grudge

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Remark : the side has clearly to be thought again, here are the card I try right now:
Must be in :
-Pithing needle, Red blast, Ancient grudge and/or artifact mutation, Seal of primordium, Mogg fanatic,…
Could be in :
- Tarmogoyf, Lava dart, Grim Lavamancer, Vexxing susher, Ingot Chewer, …


The deck strategy
The deck can be split in 3 main package
-welder package – at least game 1,
-mana disruption and artifact hate,
-draw engine (even if slow/mid game),

Welder package is made of:
4x Welders, 4x Survival of the fittest, 3x Big artifact, 4x Bazaar of bagdad

Mana disruption package is made of:
4+1 x Strip effects, 4x Null rod and 4x Chalice, 1x Gorilla Shaman, 1x Life From the loan

Draw engine package is made of:
3x Squee, 4x Bazaar + cards that also can be seen as part of the draw engine when combined with the 2 previous ones: Survival of the fittest and Life From the loan

The deck is pretty good at:
-slowing opponent in first 2-3 turns, thanks to the mana disruption package
-consistently setting up the combo in mid game, thanks to the draw engine and survival of the fittest
-be aggressive, disruptive or in control mode through 3 different combo paths to end the game (those can be easily set up thanks to survival or bazaar or even gamble)
   -aggressive: leviathan
   -disruptive: sundering
   -control and survival mode: platinium (and sylvan safekeeper)

Given that artifact are used at the same time for disruption and as welder targets, the “4 of” is not a problem (bazaar also helps filtering the useless cards).

Remark : anger is back in the list cause it speeds the deck a lot and more important, allows you to use welder even if opponent has an instant damage source online (mogg fanatic, grim lavamancer, darkblast, fire/ice, …)

The choices not made
1/ No Tarmogoyf in main: surely, this would provide me with an alternative path to victory. But what I noticed is that with tarmo :
-my main combo-hate strategy was not optimal
-the alternative aggro strategy was generally not sufficient to win cause not sufficiently backuped with other hate.
Finally, it diluted the deck and Ii feel like it was not as good as it is right now.

2/ No blast in main: this deck has to be fast in disrupting mana and/or setting up the combo. Generally, lands are discarded to bazaard. As a consequence, keeping one mana open slows the deck a lot. But surely in game 2, against control, it is a card to add.

3/ No magus of the moon at all: well, it clearly does not belong to this deck, too expensive and it annuls my draw engine

The card that you don’t want to see on opponent board or hand
-yard hate:
This can shut down the deck that relies heavily on yard.
One positive point : this deck packs some cards in main in order to help dealing with some of the most played yard hate cards : null rod, chalice, ancient grudge and gorilla are efficient against artifact yard hate like tormods for instance.
-welder hate:
Pithing needle, damage cards, …  those are really painful cards for this deck that relies on welder. Even if it packs some solutions in main (ancient grudge and gorilla against pithing, anger against damage cards), this is surely not sufficient in game 2. The side has to address that weakness through an efficient tool kit, which will be able to rely on survival or bazaar in order to be used consistently.
-artifact hate.
Artifact “destroyers” are not such a big problem. Thanks to the new leviathan and the old school duo Platinium angel+ sylvan safekeeper. My robots are not so penalized by artifact destroyers.
Artifact “bounces” are a more painful except that thanks to bazaar+welder, I can put them back on board pretty easily.

The Matchups

-Tez and blue combo control: favourable
Mana disruption, fast mana, low CC cards, welder and survival… these are really nice assets when it comes to deal with new blue combo control decks. Null rod is naturally the mvp of this matchup.

-Storm decks: even to favourable
Strong mana disruption in first turns is an efficient way to slow them down. Then, rush for your combos and choose the right one in order to win before the rebuild effect (surely, leviathan is not the right choice in this matchup, generally sundering is your guy)

-Fish: even
You have to be aggressive, trying to put leviathan on board. If your first rush doesn’t work, then your mid game card – survival and bazaar/squee – are your best asset. Their waste may be painful so stabilize the mana thanks to the 2 basics.

-Shop aggro : even to unfavorable g1, side can address efficiently this matchup
This is a very close one, they definitely can race you and their welders+shaman can prevent you from using your own welders. Even if TnT 2K9 packs some interesting card in main for this matchup but it is still pretty difficult. Especially cause leviathan will perhaps not even be sufficient: you will have been hit several times before succeeding in putting it on board and will have to often have to keep him in defense. When it comes to your other big artifacts, their welders are really painful.

-Stacks: even to unfavorable g1, side can address efficiently this matchup
Smokestack and chalice of the void are the most dangerous cards. Smokestack is very efficient given your tempo and chalice of the void at one shuts down many of your cards.
After side, with one or two more ancient grudge and/or some other artifact hate cards, this is a lot more favorable.

- Oath : unfavorable matckup
This is surely the worst matchup for this deck, so 2 solutions:
  - do not address it
  - strongly deal with it in side board
It is surely a matter of metagame.

-Ichorid: well, you know…

The conclusions
This is a really funny deck to play, slowing and maintaining pressure on mana base during first turn and moving to a combo approach in mid game.
Sometimes, you will combo very quickly, some other times you will strongly disrupt opponent’s mana base during the first 3-4 turns.
Don’t worry if you use your whole hand in the first 2 turns order to set up an efficient mana denial plan. Thanks to bazaar and survival, the deck is surprisingly good at restarting and quickly moving to the combo phase of your plan, even with no card in hand.

I hope this was not too long to read.

Regards,

Nicolas

[Mantis]

I really like this deck beder, great job. I played against you on MWS and was impressed by this deck.
Crop Rotation seems like a natural inclusion as you really need to hit Bazaar.

[beder]

I really like this deck beder, great job. I played against you on MWS and was impressed by this deck.
Crop Rotation seems like a natural inclusion as you really need to hit Bazaar.

Thanks a lot Mantis. I remember us playing and discussing the old version of this deck, that used 4 pithing needle in main.
Finally, I changed it a little bit and I have to say that it works really better.

Crop rotation may be an idea, I thought about it. Right now, I am not sure given that I care about my lands. Especially at the beginning of the game, the deck needs to be able to rely durably on 2 recurrent mana sources (the other ones will be discarded to bazaar).
Using crop rotation, I often lost that essential second land and sometimes had to wait a few turns in order to be able to play survival (that is also a key card of the deck).
Given that the deck doesn't necessarily needs bazaar (thanks to survival), right now I wouldn't be so affirmative about crop rotation.

Surely, there is a slot that have to be studied, the "Gamble" slot : I like the card and it helped me a few times, but I am still thinking about other options :
- crop rotation
- another ancient grudge
- ingot chewer
- a solution against opponent's leviathan (but i didn't find any solution that could really fit the deck well) or dsc (stingscourger in addition to welder could be necessary)
- a lava dart
...

[the boogie man]

I think that a single goyf is too much good to miss out on. It is a 2-mana wall that is terrific against fish, stax, and is often bigger than juggs or another large creature. and against control, they have a 4-5 turn clock on there hands. I'd test it in  the gamble slot. Other than that, the deck looks relly good.
\

edit: I did just notice that gamble does tutor for both of the other "random" cards pretty well.

[Miaou]

I like the list, except for the last three "random" cards. In a deck with no tutoring ability, I think you are better off running the same card. What I would suggest is 3x Seal of Primordium as they are usefull in many matchups. You could also go with 3x Ancient Grudge if you don't see too many Oath. But having a lone grudge and a single LotL seems too random for them to be worthwhile. And as for Gamble, well, I think there are better options

Bonne chance

[beder]

I think that a single goyf is too much good to miss out on. It is a 2-mana wall that is terrific against fish, stax, and is often bigger than juggs or another large creature. and against control, they have a 4-5 turn clock on there hands. I'd test it in  the gamble slot. Other than that, the deck looks relly good.
\

edit: I did just notice that gamble does tutor for both of the other "random" cards pretty well.

I like the list, except for the last three "random" cards. In a deck with no tutoring ability, I think you are better off running the same card. What I would suggest is 3x Seal of Primordium as they are usefull in many matchups. You could also go with 3x Ancient Grudge if you don't see too many Oath. But having a lone grudge and a single LotL seems too random for them to be worthwhile. And as for Gamble, well, I think there are better options

Bonne chance

Surely, there are 4 slots that can be thought in order to tune that build :
- Sylvan Saffekeeper
- Life from the loan
- Ancient Grudge
- Gamble

Life from the loan and Ancient Grudge are cards that I like a lot, even as one-of.
- I nearly always have something to do with an ancient grudge - the minimum being discard it to bazaar. It is like having a potential free extra card in my yard.
- When it comes to life from the loan, I also like it, even as a one-of. It can only be used in mid-late game, sometimes in order to lock opponent, other time to use alternate draw engine with bazaar. This is another a card that I like to discard to bazaar. I know that I have now another option in my yard.
In fact, those 2 cards provide me with some extra possibilities when I see them, but when I don't, it is no big deal.

Then, there are the 2 last slots, Sylvan Safekeeper and Gamble.
- Sylvan Safekeeper is perhaps a win more card... G1, you generally don't need it. G2, because of the artifact hate added by opponent, it may become to difficult to rely efficently on this mini combo with platinium. Platinium could even be sided out for other options or other robots (2nd Leviathan for instance). Perhaps could it be replaced.
- Gamble is surely too random and not sufficently synergistic with the rest of the deck - when LFTL or ancient Grudge are.

IMO, here are the different options I imagine when it comes to adding new cards :
1- increase the number of LFTL/Ancient Grudge
2- add another robot
3- add new "creature/survival target"

For option 2, leviathan is really a strong contender.

For option 3, I thought about :
- ingot chewer, in order to have access through survival to a cheap artifact destruction that is not impacted by chalice at one,
- tarmo, that can help a lot if you don't have any artifact on board, in order to gain time. Tarmo can also win random games where your mana denial strategy has been very efficent.
- a low CC artifact creature : I sometimes noticed that I had survival - and so access to welder and/or big robots - but no artifact on board. As a consequence, I would like to have an artifact creature target that I can search with survival. In my quest for it, I even thought about using Jawbone Skulkin... Well, I perhaps should try it.

[d0rsal]

for what its worth, i really like the deck alot, but i always liked running 2 LftL's in my DotD deck.  it wrk'd really well w/ the "strip" effects or re-using early fetchlands to thin the deck down further. 

i believe Mantis mentioned crop rotation as a possible card & agn i luv'd running it in my DotD b/c it helped me find my bazaars or "strips", depending upon what i needed. 

Beder you also mentioned lava dart as a possible card, might i suggest flame jab.  LftL would allow you to keep re-using flame jab.

another possible card you may want to consider as a singleton, is gaea's blessing.  it could potentially allow you to hurt tarmogoyf's & opposing welders as well as netting you a card; along w/ its other uses. 

[the boogie man]

If you want a cheap artifact creature, heap doll is playable, and it has a relevant ability. and 2 lftl does seem like a solid addition, as well as the flame jab.

here is what I would play with if I was to pick up the deck:

your list
-1 safekeeper
-1 gamble
-1 grudge
-1 wasteland

+1 goyf
+1 heap doll
+1 lftl
+1 flame jab

I think that you might be a little heavy on the mana, and If I'm running 2 lftl, I can always recur the wastes later on. I agree with the previous argument that safekeeper is probably unnecessary, and The grudge, with almost no tutoring, seems out of place. More can be brought in post side, anyway.

Flame jab seems like a good recurable source of damage, and lftl makes it good. Heap doll is a cheap artifact creature for survival, as well as being graveyard removal.

[d0rsal]

@ Beder - earlier you mentioned several options for adding new cards, & option #3 was for the inclusion of a cheap CC artifact creature as a "survival" target, how about Myr Retriever?  his go to the GY effect could be handy & worse case he'd put another card into your hand to pitch to your bazaars.

for option #2, adding another big robot, have you considered a Razormane Masticore?  he would wrk well w/ Squee & LftL & is a beating against creature-based strategies; not to mention being a 5/5 first striker doesnt suck either.

& finally, the closer i look @ the deck, the more i realize the importance of Ancient Grudge.  w/ so many ppl playing CotV these days, a Chalice set @ 1, really does put the brakes on this deck.  so i agree w/ you about option #1, possibly adding an additional 'grudge" might not be a bad call.

[beder]

Flame Jab, I don't feel it will be very usefull. I explain my position regarding that specific card and it will allow me at the same time to illustrate one of the main strength of the deck that was perhaps not clearly presented in the original post.

One main strength of this deck is that it can efficently operate with a very low number of land on board. With only one land, thanks to the 8 SSG/ESG, it can do "business as usual", even playing/using survival or putting null rod on board. That's why bazaar is so powerfull here : playing it does not really slow down your tempo and extra land can very soon be discarded to bazaar. This is kind of virtual card advantage.
As a consequence, if you play this build efficently, you generally don't have more that 1 red mana and 1 green on board (sometimes through a unique taiga). The ideal being having 2 green over 2 lands in order to be able to play all your spells quickly and use survival efficently (double search in a turn is a frequent play : search for artifact and then search for welder, discarding the previously searched artifact).

Exception : when the game is really entering mid game, keeping access to a 3rd mana - ideally green - may be a very good idea, see tip below.

Back to flamejab : so with generally only 1 red mana available in early/mid game, the retrace capacity of the flame jab sorcery is pretty difficult to really use.

Remark : the importance of bazaar and strip mine (against solid blue mana base) is why, as it has been suggested, I am now really considering adding crop rotation in order to access more regularly to bazaar or strip mine[/i]

Tip : in mid game, look for the capacity to realize this deck's special move : putting in the same turn anger in yard and welder on board, being so able for instance to weld in directly sundering, destroy lands and attack with it. It is a kind of a surprise for the opponent who is generally defining its tactics with regard to this "one turn between welder played and welder active". To do so, one generally needs 1 R and 2 G available

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes to the changes, right now, I removed the gamble and the safekeeper.
In those 2 slots, I added :

- one extra ancient grudge and I am very happy with it :
  1- now, my g1 matchup against shop are at least even, perhaps favourable
  2- against the new hyped combo - time vault voltaic - I feel very safe having generally access to another artifact destroyer
  3- it is a card that I bring from side g2 against many archetypes, at least in order to deal with chalice, pithing needle, tormods or relic.
Given that it is nearly never a dead draw - and can be synergisticaly recycled with bazaar - I am very happy with it.

- one tarmo : but I still have to think about it, still not convinced that only one tarmo makes any difference. I never search for it through survival (I always have something else to search for). I still have to test it to understand if the random effect of playing one tarmo sometime is usefull.

When it comes to mana base, especially wasteland, I like having 4 of them. Keep in mind that mana denial is the only "disruption package" of this deck.

[d0rsal]

hope this doesnt get me in trouble for resurrecting a thread.

Thread Return    Return target thread from graveyard to play.



@ Beder - Beder i was just curious if you had made any new changes to the deck & did you keep the 1 tarmogoyf you were trying out?

[vassago]

hope this doesnt get me in trouble for resurrecting a thread.

Thread Return    Return target thread from graveyard to play.



@ Beder - Beder i was just curious if you had made any new changes to the deck & did you keep the 1 tarmogoyf you were trying out?

I am curious about one thing: Did you pay the flash back cost? If so, what three threads did you sac to pay this cost?  =oD

[BruiZar]

I would go for Ingot Chewer + Volrath's Stronghold + Crop Rotation. Just make sure you fix your mana base to include black sources.

Rotation gets stronghold, survival gets chewer, and you've got a recurring vindicate every turn. You also get the abillity to shuffle a creature back in your deck. If you want to stay clear of stronghold you could use academy ruins as well but I don't like it as much as v.stro nghold.

Ingot Chewer helps when you're not drawing into null rods. aYou're playing to fight powered decks with chalice and null rod, why not extend that concept by including chewers?

Also, if you know your opponent is gonna go crazy next turn unless you deplete him off mana you weld titan and shoot your own titan with chewer then follow up with wastelands.

[BruiZar]

If you're gonna choose heapdoll, play faerie macabre instead.  Coupled with v. stronghold its pretty nice

[the boogie man]

the point is that heap doll is cheap gravehate thats weldable, allowing him to survival for it, in case he needs to weld a big guy in.

[beder]

hope this doesnt get me in trouble for resurrecting a thread.

Thread Return    Return target thread from graveyard to play.

@ Beder - Beder i was just curious if you had made any new changes to the deck & did you keep the 1 tarmogoyf you were trying out?

I made a few changes :
- platinium angel
- sylvan safekeeper
- tarmogoyf

+ 2nd sundering titan
+ 2nd ancient grudge
+ Crop rotation

Platinium angel is definitely too difficult to use efficently, even with sylvan safekeeper, given that many decks now use global blue artifact bounce instead of target bounce (cause of leviathan). That's why I replaced it with a 2nd sundering.
Then, I added the crop rotation : 5th bazaar and 2nd strip mine
Finally, the 2nd ancient grudge replaced the tarmogoyf, that was nearly always useless as a one-of (at least game 1, because g2 it can be a very good idea to bring 4 tarmos from side).

Here is the latest version of the list :

// Lands
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Taiga
    1 Mountain
    1 Forest
   
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
   
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad

// Creatures
    3 Squee, Goblin Nabob

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide

    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Gorilla Shaman

    1 Anger
    2 Sundering Titan
    1 Inkwell Leviathan
   
// Spells
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby

    4 Null Rod
    4 Chalice of the Void

    4 Survival of the Fittest
   
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Life from the Loam

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

[Negator13]

I think it might be worth it to splash blue for Ancestral, Time Walk, and Tinker, especially since Tinker would give you a viable route around stuff like leyline of the Void.

[carl]

I haven't tried the deck and have some questions.

Your deck is based around Survival, so I don't get why you use 8 mana sources (spirit guides) which are one shots.
I understand that you can pitch them to survival to get a creature, but why not use Elves? Turn 1 elf, turn 2 Survival + 1 activation (or drop Bazaar).
Also, how good are Chalices? You can't play them at 1 (Welder is a big part of your plan), nor at 2 (Survival and Null Rod); with no Workshop, you can't hope for 3 or more. So, you play them at zero I guess? Seeing that you will start game 1 only 50% on average, how useful is it? Wouldn't 2 extra Gorilla Shaman be a better choice?

Without Tarmogoyf, it seems easy to shut you off: keep the Welders away (or play a Needle / Chalice at 1 and protect it), and your deck doesn't do much. Fortunately, people don't know that when they don't know your deck.

I would still play a single Magus of the Moon, as it can win you some games vs combo or even Oath. At worst, you can pitch it to Survival or Bazaar.

Finally, since you play 5 strips and focus on mana denial, I would cut 2 Squee for 2 Life from the Loam.

[Negator13]

He uses Chalice because like Null Rod it helps keep his deck on-par with other more intrinsically powerful decks, while being an artifact to Weld (assuredly this is the reason for its inclusion over Shaman, et al)

That being said I have to say I agree that the deck should probably be running Tarmogoyf, mainly so that it is not so vulnerable to graveyard hate. Magus of the Moon also seems like it would be very good in combination with the other mana disruption.

Basically I think the best way to build this would be as a combination of TnT and Steve's RG beats deck. I dont have time to work out a full list, but you would want

4 Bazaar
4 Tarmogoyf
0-4 Magus of the moon
4 Welder
4 SotF
2-4 Squee
8 Spirit Guides
2-4 Large artifact dudes
8 Rod/Chalice

[mutedequilibrium]

Without Tarmogoyf, it seems easy to shut you off: keep the Welders away (or play a Needle / Chalice at 1 and protect it), and your deck doesn't do much. Fortunately, people don't know that when they don't know your deck.

This first part is absolutely right. Pithing Needle makes this deck significantly worse. This deck also needs answers to Oath. Leyline is rough for this deck, as is Chalice @ 1. This deck looks like it needs serious help against Ichorid, as well.

Any veteran Vintage player will see the SotF played, and think "Oh, TNT," so you'll only get away with that with newer Vintage players.

Finally, since you play 5 strips and focus on mana denial, I would cut 2 Squee for 2 Life from the Loam.

I agree with this as well. 1 Squee is enough for the Survival engine.

The last time I ran this deck [long ago], I ran 2 In the Eye of Chaos in the main, and 1 Tinker. While Tinker probably isn't viable since this list is low on artifacts, ITEOC should be an auto-include. With the inclusion of Tarmogoyf, you can throw down a combination of ITEOC and Null Rod, and beat your way to victory. ITEOC is incredibly strong against Control, and not terrible against Combo game 1. I would find a way to work 1-2 Ancient Tomb in, as well. Probably starting with -1 Bazaar.

Lastly, I'd add more utility creatures as well, such as Mogg Fanatic [which is incredibly good against Ichorid if Leyline is absent] and/or Duplicant.

[the boogie man]

I think that ancient tomb would not be that good at all in this deck. It really needs the colored mana, and there doesn't seem to be much that it can sink into anyway. And the elves don't help pump out null rod turn 1.

With that said, I think that 1 bazaar could definately go, as well as 2 squee. This deck does not seem to revolve around bazaar, so perhaps a mid game filtering engine or an early game engine that you won't see multiples of seems good.

And I would try cutting 1 chalice as well. It seems that the only time you want to cast it is turn 1 for 0, and running 3 would allow you to see it pretty reliably without seeing multiples.

I would test:
-1 chalice
-2 squee
-1 bazaar

+1 heap doll
+1 life from the loam
+2 goyf

since you are lowering your reliance on welder, It may be prudent to run -1 welder +1 goyf as well. 3 welders assures you that you will see it pretty often, but keeps you from having a hand of dead cards. They do pitch to survival and bazaar, but I think that the pressure goyf can apply is too good to pass up, especially when you have anger, and possibly multiple goyfs, especially if survial is online.

I might also test an ingot chewer in place of 1 of the grudges, because they get around chalice @2, which might possibly be a nuisance, countering survival. I also think that heap doll is really a decent card in this deck. It does wonders against ichorid too. Remove bridges and something else? not a bad deal for a weldable survival target.

edit: what are your feelings on a single dryad arbor? It would be a land you could find with survival, a creature to use with survival, and anger even lets it tap the turn it comes into play. and it is at the very least another threat that you can fetched with survival or a fetchland.

[d0rsal]

@ Beder - interesting changes, i can understand them b/c i've been toying w/ the deck every since you posted it.  i've got a few questions/comments, you got rid of the angel b/c of global artifact bounce, but kept the inkwell, why is that?  i'm w/ you regarding tarmogoyf, but 1 in the main is probably the right#, b/c sometimes its nice to have a creature w/ some a$$ behind it that isnt an artifact.  so far i've been happy w/ the 1 heap doll, mainly as a welder-friendly survival target, but its ability is also relevant.  have you ever considered running 2 angers?  i really like the dropping a welder & using his ability the turn he comes into play...  have you noticed it being a problem only running 1 basic forest & mtn?  i'm seriously considering up-ing my count to 2 ea.   

[BruiZar]

"That being said I have to say I agree that the deck should probably be running Tarmogoyf, mainly so that it is not so vulnerable to graveyard hate."

I know what you're trying to say, but you do have to realize that an activated relic turns Tarmogoyf into a really small Lhurgoyf dude so the deck would still be hated out with gy hate

[the boogie man]

but it still avoids leyline and crypt. plus, he doesn't rely on you having welder.

[beder]

I haven't tried the deck and have some questions.

Your deck is based around Survival, so I don't get why you use 8 mana sources (spirit guides) which are one shots.
I understand that you can pitch them to survival to get a creature, but why not use Elves? Turn 1 elf, turn 2 Survival + 1 activation (or drop Bazaar).
Also, how good are Chalices? You can't play them at 1 (Welder is a big part of your plan), nor at 2 (Survival and Null Rod); with no Workshop, you can't hope for 3 or more. So, you play them at zero I guess? Seeing that you will start game 1 only 50% on average, how useful is it? Wouldn't 2 extra Gorilla Shaman be a better choice?

In fact, this deck is not based around survival. Survival is the "tutor" suite of this this deck, bazaar being the engine. Digging with bazaar, for disruption and/or combo parts is a very important part of this deck tactic. Bazaar is the reason why, in additionto the survival, it can be consistent relying on 4 welders.
This is why 3 squees are needed: squee recursion is critical in relation with bazaar (and it is a bonus for survival). With less squees, Bazaar would be more difficult to use as a reliable and sustainable engine.

Then, when it comes to the 8 guides, they are really necessary in order to allow different critical play :
- play null rod turn one, before mana drain being online
- allow you to deploy your gameplan while playing and using at the same the not mana productive land (9 in this game: 4 bazaars and 5 strips)
- accelerate the early play and use of survival // elves would also be a solution
- have sufficient number of survival discardable cards for mid games // elves would also be a solution
To sum up, in comparison with elves, guides are critical on a tempo point of view. And given that the deck operates well with only very few mana, their "non permanent" characteristic is not so painful.

When it comes to chalice, 95% of the times, they are played at 0. Keep in mind that in this deck, chalice is used at the same time to:
- disrupt moxes and other painfull artifact (tormods for instance),
- provide in early games a welder target
4 is definitely the right number I think. It may prevent you from being obliged to weld out a null rod for instance, which can definitely be very dangerous.

Without Tarmogoyf, it seems easy to shut you off: keep the Welders away (or play a Needle / Chalice at 1 and protect it), and your deck doesn't do much. Fortunately, people don't know that when they don't know your deck.

I would still play a single Magus of the Moon, as it can win you some games vs combo or even Oath. At worst, you can pitch it to Survival or Bazaar.

Finally, since you play 5 strips and focus on mana denial, I would cut 2 Squee for 2 Life from the Loam.

Sure, G1 this deck is 100% welder dependant (even if I already won different games attacking with guides ). Sure, one can and perhaps will counter first welder, but that's not so catastrophic. You still have 3 in your deck. And trust me, with both bazaar and survival, one other welder will be soon in your hand.
G2 is a different story, that's why my advice could be to bring 4 tarmogoyf from side. It is possible to add 4 tarmos without decreasing too much the efficency of the original combo.

When it comes to magus, I am not convinced. Any “one-of creature” in this deck – except robot – has to provide a new out, not a new threat. Generally, if you can use survival to search, you will get :
- the combo (welder/artifact),
- a way to remove a card hating the combo
Magus as a one of has the exact same problem as tarmogoyf as a one of : you never search for it, there is always something more critical.

Life or the loan is pretty mana intensive and this deck does not have many permanent mana. It may be difficult to play it regularly without killing your own tempo. But I perhaps have to test one more life.

@ Beder - interesting changes, i can understand them b/c i've been toying w/ the deck every since you posted it.  i've got a few questions/comments, you got rid of the angel b/c of global artifact bounce, but kept the inkwell, why is that? 

Even if boucable by global bounce, Inkwell is very good by itself when platinium is very fragile. And with global bounce, the sylvansafekeeper/plainium combo does work anymore.

so far i've been happy w/ the 1 heap doll, mainly as a welder-friendly survival target, but its ability is also relevant.
have you ever considered running 2 angers?  i really like the dropping a welder & using his ability the turn he comes into play... 
have you noticed it being a problem only running 1 basic forest & mtn?  i'm seriously considering up-ing my count to 2 ea.

I definitely have to test heap doll. It could help, I already faced several games where I missed that artifact to weld out (even with 11 artifacts in main).

When it comes to anger, I agree: it speeds up the deck a lot and create a surprise effect that is really nice. I didn’t test with 2. If you try it, please let me know what your feeling is.

Up until now, I like the manabase with only 2 basic. But I am not the best “manabase specialist”, perhaps the basic count could be increased…

[xwt]

It's a pointless comment, but it's funny how the french players tend to abreviate to "tarmo" while canadian and american players to "goyf"
I don't know brittish players, and french canadian players are somewhat divided amongst the 2 trends.


...
To be fair, I think that goyf needs to be in the deck. You need to be able to win without your engine active. You have to many spirit guides, too. Oh, and one could splash blue for intuition, gifts, recall and tinker. That's just my 2 cents.