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Eastman
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« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2009, 03:43:03 pm » |
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This thread has become a mess. I'll decide what to do with it when I'm at my comp (on mobile now). If another mod comes through before I get a chance, feel free to clean this up. For now, locked.
EDIT: We're back in action. Verbal warnings as above and one full warning to oshkosh for that 'donkey' comment. Anything even close to a flame will catch a full warning from here on out.
Back to the deck: This looks awesome, and the results from the tournament report are absolutely incredible. I'm going to try to put this together and test it in advance of Hadley next week.
Two questions: Has anyone tried Cabal Therapy? I could see that working nicely since the turn you go off you really don't need confidant. Less realistically, I'm curious if there's a fit for culling the weak here. Particularly post-board (or perhaps if Xantid is moved MD) when there are a few more creatures, culling could happen pretty frequently. I can see that it is sort of far out, and it's obviously very situational, but in the turn 2: confidant, turn 3/4: win model, culling the weak would be ridiculous.
Oh two more questions about cards currently in the deck. (1) why ill-gotten gains? (sorry if this has been answered), and (2) is LED an auto-include?
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 05:47:13 pm by Eastman »
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2009, 06:02:34 pm » |
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Two questions: Has anyone tried Cabal Therapy? I could see that working nicely since the turn you go off you really don't need confidant. Less realistically, I'm curious if there's a fit for culling the weak here. Particularly post-board (or perhaps if Xantid is moved MD) when there are a few more creatures, culling could happen pretty frequently. I can see that it is sort of far out, and it's obviously very situational, but in the turn 2: confidant, turn 3/4: win model, culling the weak would be ridiculous.
Oh two more questions about cards currently in the deck. (1) why ill-gotten gains? (sorry if this has been answered), and (2) is LED an auto-include?
Cabal Therapy was something I've played in the sideboard before, and we(Duncan and I) were discussing putting it into the maindeck. It didn't pan out maindeck because we both felt that 5 discard effects were a perfect fit, and we both were more comfortable with the 1 thoughtseize. I still contemplate putting it into the sideboard, and quite honestly, they will probably be there over Xantid Swarm, now that the deck is getting some atttention, and people will be more aware of Xantids. I'm not sure how to answer the question about Culling the Weak. I guess I just don't really like the whole Sacrifice a guy play, especially since sometimes you just don't have guys. Ill-Gotten gains was actually something I was curious about because I was trying to find things that were better than windfall. I also wanted more busted plays to do against Non-Force of Will decks, be it an aggressive deck (RG Beats?) or shops, post global-bounce spell. Something that could win, but also could just put you in an incredible advantage, pushing the whole "grind out win" potential. It's moving in and out of the deck. Lions Eye Diamond was something I felt very comfortable with after starting 7-0 in the Legacy Grand Prix with the Same deck Tommy Kolowith top8ed with. Honestly, the card has a lot of synergies with my favorite spells in this deck (Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune, TimeTwister, and to a lesser extend Minds Desire and even Sensei's very Divine Top). I really liked this card, until my tournament yesterday. It's a Risk/Reward system, but in the end, I have decided (after long discussion with Owen and Tommy Kolowith) that it just doesn't warrent the spot, due to mulligan reasons. It plays well with some cards, but just refuses to go to the playground unless those cards are present. Hope that helps! |
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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rologa
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« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2009, 07:20:07 pm » |
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Why not Ad Nauseam in the Windfall/Ill-Gotten-Gains spot as one or two off?
It cost 5 but the deck runs quite a lot acceleration and it will be good against non blue decks and blue decks.
With 3 Tendrils main and very few expensive cards (only Dessire & Tendrils > 3) I think the life lost can be supported quite well.
Just my two cents,
Roberto.
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OwenTheEnchanter
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« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2009, 07:54:51 pm » |
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Why not Ad Nauseam in the Windfall/Ill-Gotten-Gains spot as one or two off?
It cost 5 but the deck runs quite a lot acceleration and it will be good against non blue decks and blue decks.
With 3 Tendrils main and very few expensive cards (only Dessire & Tendrils > 3) I think the life lost can be supported quite well.
Just my two cents,
Roberto.
What makes Ad Nauseam better than Yawgmoth's Bargain? |
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IDK why you're looking for so much credibility: You top 8ed a couple tournaments. Nice Job! |
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2009, 08:07:30 pm » |
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Why not Ad Nauseam in the Windfall/Ill-Gotten-Gains spot as one or two off?
It cost 5 but the deck runs quite a lot acceleration and it will be good against non blue decks and blue decks.
With 3 Tendrils main and very few expensive cards (only Dessire & Tendrils > 3) I think the life lost can be supported quite well.
Just my two cents,
Roberto.
What makes Ad Nauseam better than Yawgmoth's Bargain? Mr. Turtenwald is correct. I would run Yawgmoth's Bargain before running Ad Naseum. I tested AN, and flipping confidants, wheel, twister, desire, tendrils, are all bad. The only thing you want to flip is a bunch of rituals and moxen, and it doesn't happen often enough. |
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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toor
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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2009, 09:17:12 pm » |
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So what's the meta you wouldn't want to see with this deck? Just other combo? Also do you bring out confidants ever(seems like it might be correct versus certain versions of fish)?
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ancestral recall
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« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2009, 06:05:21 am » |
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I have an other question, why play this deck not 4 cabal rituals, like deck as grim long/pitch long. It makes you deck more efficient on card advantage to drop dark confidant on turn 1 or 2.
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ancestral recall
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« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2009, 06:15:17 am » |
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Sorry for my second post, but what about decks that run in sideboard the card Extirpate?
They can Extirpate your tendrils, what are you doing in this situation? Change your game plan to win with dark confidant or throw an tendrils for lethal damage?
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chrissss
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Just be yourself
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« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2009, 06:37:56 am » |
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Sorry for my second post, but what about decks that run in sideboard the card Extirpate?
They can Extirpate your tendrils, what are you doing in this situation? Change your game plan to win with dark confidant or throw an tendrils for lethal damage?
extirpate destroys a lot of decks though, nothing much you can do about it. TPS would lose, this deck still has COnfidants to do damage. also you can edit your post so you dont double post. |
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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2009, 11:46:08 am » |
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If you know your opponent has Extirpate (not many decks run the card) You can board in your Empty. You also can do the double tendrils play, as long as your last two cards are both tendrils. Cast tendrils for storm 5, it resolves, then cast it for storm 6, since you have priority.
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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ancestral recall
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« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2009, 12:35:42 pm » |
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Oke and what about 4 cabal ritual in main deck?
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2009, 12:48:15 pm » |
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Oke and what about 4 cabal ritual in main deck?
I've played 4 before, and I felt it was too many ritual effects. Your deck is already almost have mana/rituals as is. |
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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wiley
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« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2009, 01:16:31 pm » |
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Cast tendrils for storm 5, it resolves, then cast it for storm 6, since you have priority.
That doesn't work does it? You have a priority pass in between each copy of tendrils resolving, at any point during this he can extirpate you. |
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Team Arsenal
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PhilipJFry
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I am my own grandpa!
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« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2009, 01:42:47 pm » |
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Cast tendrils for storm 5, it resolves, then cast it for storm 6, since you have priority.
That doesn't work does it? You have a priority pass in between each copy of tendrils resolving, at any point during this he can extirpate you. The Tendrils card doesn't go to the graveyard until it resolves. All storm copies resolve before the actual initial spell resolves. When that initial spell resolves, you again have priority with an empty stack, to play your second Tendrils. They could extirpate the one now in the grave in response, but it would do nothing to the new Tendrils now on the stack. |
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An AMAZING play by mentally ill newcomer Philip Fry!
- The head of Penn Jillette, Futurama: Into the Wild Green Yonder
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John Jones
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« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2009, 03:28:32 am » |
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I don't know what any of you guys are talking about becuase its 4:20 in the morning, well one clock says 4:21 now it says 4:22 with the other one still 4:20... wtf? Anyway, Duncan, congrats. Also, I beat you I think in GP chicago, then proceded to lose to the most busted ichorid deck (t8) then proceded to lose to a frenchy playing ub countersquall + Finkel Beats? Then we took Jason the Englishman back to his hostel but on the way home stopped at Finn McCools (I think thats the name) and had the oddest sandwich with rye bread.
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Team You Just Lost
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chrissss
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Just be yourself
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« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2009, 04:12:41 am » |
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Not a lot of people know the priority rule though, so many times people dont get it when I play cabal therapy.
BTw, demonic consultation, what do you use it for mostly? Everytime I use this card ( usually Dark ritual ) it removes 80% of the deck from the game removing almost all my win conditions.
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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
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ancestral recall
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« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2009, 04:40:02 am » |
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Not a lot of people know the priority rule though, so many times people dont get it when I play cabal therapy.
BTw, demonic consultation, what do you use it for mostly? Everytime I use this card ( usually Dark ritual ) it removes 80% of the deck from the game removing almost all my win conditions.
I use them mostly for dark ritual, cabal ritual when I have thresshold or tendrils of agony. I play this card only when I can kill my opponent that turn, because otherwise a lot of cards in my deck are removed. Things like y.will, tendrils of agony ect and makes the number of possible outs less. |
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John Jones
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« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2009, 08:30:07 am » |
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Not a lot of people know the priority rule though, so many times people dont get it when I play cabal therapy.
BTw, demonic consultation, what do you use it for mostly? Everytime I use this card ( usually Dark ritual ) it removes 80% of the deck from the game removing almost all my win conditions.
I use them mostly for dark ritual, cabal ritual when I have thresshold or tendrils of agony. I play this card only when I can kill my opponent that turn, because otherwise a lot of cards in my deck are removed. Things like y.will, tendrils of agony ect and makes the number of possible outs less. That sounds like a bad card to be in your deck when you only want to cast it from a winning position. |
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Team You Just Lost
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2009, 11:30:41 am » |
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BTw, demonic consultation, what do you use it for mostly? Everytime I use this card ( usually Dark ritual ) it removes 80% of the deck from the game removing almost all my win conditions.
Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Tendrils of Agony, or Dark Confidant. Turn 1 Ritual, Consult, Dark Confidant is a fine play if you know your matchup. I've also gone for Restricted cards with some sucess. |
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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GrandpaBelcher
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1000% Serious
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« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2009, 11:40:47 am » |
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Just because it's good to post these every once in a while so they stay fresh in peoples' minds, here are the numbers on Demonic Consultation: If you don’t care whether it’s the last card in your library—i.e. getting it will win you the game right away, your chances are almost certainly better than 80%, as shown below:
If we assume that you don't care whether the card is the last card (i.e., if you get it you will win this turn), the odds that you find a 1-of that you Consult for are:
50 cards remaining in library: 22/25 = 88%
45 cards: 13/15 = 86.67%
40 cards: 17/20 = 85%
35 cards: 29/35 = 82.85%
If you're casting it at the end of your opponent's turn and plan on winning on your next mainphase, the odds that you still have a card in your library left during your draw step are:
50 cards: 13/15 - 1/50 = 43/50 = 86%
45 cards: 17/20 - 1/45 = 38/45 = 84.44%
40 cards: 33/40 - 1/40 = 33/40 = 82.5%
35 cards: 29/35 - 1/35 = 4/5 = 80%
As you might imagine, the odds improve dramatically when you have even two copies in your library. Redoing the example that you don't care whether its the last card in your library or not:
50 cards: 242/245 = 98.77%
45 cards: 65/66 = 98.48%
40 cards: 51/52 = 98.07%
35 cards: 116/119 = 97.47% In short, be not afraid; Demonic Consultation is insane. |
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Duncan
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Team R&D
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« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2009, 08:06:45 pm » |
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Glad to see a lot has been going on in this thread. For all of you guys wondering why I haven't replied here for a while: I'm in Hong Kong right now doing a business case but I found some spare time to check the forum for a few secs. When I get home (23rd of April) I'll read all the comments and answer any unanswered questions.
And please guys, don't make that much of a mess of this thread.
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"Good things may come to those who wait, but they are merely leftovers from great things that come to those who act.”
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2009, 09:45:09 pm » |
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Consult for Duress is also a decent play, FYI. I forgot to mention that.
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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Leooooh
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« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2009, 10:14:25 pm » |
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Congrats Soly and Duncan for the results!!!
You guys made a sick deck!!! I am planning to use it on my next tourney here in Brazil!!!
So, two questions for u Soly!
1) Which card did u added when u cut the LED!
2) How did skeletal scryingin your last tournament? I love this card too. It is really sick at any point of the game.
Gongrats again for both of u!!!
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Workshops SUCKS huh??? So why do you bother so much with them??? Why do you change so much your decks to beat them???
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John Jones
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« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2009, 10:57:36 pm » |
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BTw, demonic consultation, what do you use it for mostly? Everytime I use this card ( usually Dark ritual ) it removes 80% of the deck from the game removing almost all my win conditions.
Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Tendrils of Agony, or Dark Confidant. Turn 1 Ritual, Consult, Dark Confidant is a fine play if you know your matchup. I've also gone for Restricted cards with some sucess. Learn to quote  |
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Team You Just Lost
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gdtpara
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« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2009, 10:47:59 am » |
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Hi there, it's my first post here.
That's a really cool report.
I used to be a TPS player before and i felt in love with this deck and his dark confidant. They are just amazing as you say and win games alone.
I have just a questions. What do you side out vs Ichorid ? I suppose duress are all out, but what for the remaining slot ?
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