[Single Card Discussion] Rumor (AR) - Wisescale Serpent

[the_lord_shaper]

I'm actually pretty surprised that this isn't already up here.

Wisescale Serpent*  1GU
   
Creature - Snake   Uncommon
Whenever you draw a card,
you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
                               
                                      2/2
Seems a little broken to me, especially in a grow deck. But I could be wrong, but this seems like a very powerful uncommon. It gets bigger every turn and make brainstorm and thirst into permanent giant growths. Anyway I would like to hear your comments on this little guy.

[chrissss]

Yeah its a very nifty little card. Though I think its more of a legacy card, where brainstorm isnt restricted.

This actually gives you reasons to play 4 tops, with top in play it is  +2/+2 every turn. imagine a top and a key.

It pitches to Fow, its a very cool card.

[Suicideking]

Its interesting for legacy, but I cant see it being better the Dryad in this format.  Dryads mana cost is just much easier and the draw spells a deck that support this card don't really fit the deck this would be in.

[Troy_Costisick]

Yeah its a very nifty little card. Though I think its more of a legacy card, where brainstorm isnt restricted.

This actually gives you reasons to play 4 tops, with top in play it is  +2/+2 every turn. imagine a top and a key.

It pitches to Fow, its a very cool card.

It gets infinitely big with 2 tops and an Etherium Sculptor in play.  However, I think I'd like the card better if it were UG for a 1/1 rather than 1UG for a 2/2.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

Yeah its a very nifty little card. Though I think its more of a legacy card, where brainstorm isnt restricted.

This actually gives you reasons to play 4 tops, with top in play it is  +2/+2 every turn. imagine a top and a key.

It pitches to Fow, its a very cool card.

It gets infinitely big with 2 tops and an Etherium Sculptor in play.  However, I think I'd like the card better if it were UG for a 1/1 rather than 1UG for a 2/2.

I would like it better if it was U for a 2/2 and was made of chocolate.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I think the obvious comparison is not dryad, but psychatog.  I don't have anything concrete, but my best guess is that it's not even close to that power level.  The trick in combo control is to make a single lethal strike, not to beat down over a number of turns.

It may be more conducive to something that plays a strong attrition strategy like Steve's recent gro list.

[nineisnoone]

I think the obvious comparison is not dryad, but psychatog.  I don't have anything concrete, but my best guess is that it's not even close to that power level.

I would say that it's fairly close.  Remember it gets a +1/+1 every turn regardless of anything else.  It's better early.  Not quite as good, but still not too far off later on.  I would actually run this over Dryad/Tog if the Scroll, Brainstorm, Gush were was still around.  It is + 1 every turn naturally and it's getting +2/3 off the staple cards in your deck.  Maybe even over 'Goyf. 

That being said, I don't think Psychatog/Dryad is all that strong in the current format either. 

[Explosion]

I could almost see shoehorning this into a Remora deck. Drop this on the board, draw 4 off Meditate, a few more off Remora, and by the time your turn comes back, it's a 10/10.

It costs one more than Dryad or Goyf, but the extra is blue, which isn't tough, and it'll grow much bigger much faster than either of them. It seems like it has potential for sure. Hell, if Cold-Eyed Selkie and Noble Hierarch are seeing play, why can't this one make friends with them?

[M.Solymossy]

I could almost see shoehorning this into a Remora deck. Drop this on the board, draw 4 off Meditate, a few more off Remora, and by the time your turn comes back, it's a 10/10.

It costs one more than Dryad or Goyf, but the extra is blue, which isn't tough, and it'll grow much bigger much faster than either of them. It seems like it has potential for sure. Hell, if Cold-Eyed Selkie and Noble Hierarch are seeing play, why can't this one make friends with them?

Wait wait wait?  Where are Cold-Eyed Sekie and Noble Heirarch seeing play?  I want in on  this fantasy land!

[Yare]

I have difficulty seeing this as better than Goyf or Tog in pretty much any context. Yeah, it pitches, but that's about all it does. Goyf and Tog are just better.

Maybe in a format with 4 Brainstorms this could be good, but we don't have that right now.

[TopSecret]

Hell, if Cold-Eyed Selkie and Noble Hierarch are seeing play, why can't this one make friends with them?

Actually, that's a good point, since this card would have synergy with Selkie's draw card ability
while being entirely decent second turn off a Hierarch to boot.

Is it better than any other three drop or 'Goyf in most every other established archetype?
Probably not.

Is it potentially absurd in some deck specifically built to abuse it?
Hell yeah!

Seriously, it has synergy with drawing cards.
How can that not find a place in some deck?

[urweak]

Seems like an interesting card, might find a home in some type of fish build or something else.

I could almost see shoehorning this into a Remora deck. Drop this on the board, draw 4 off Meditate, a few more off Remora, and by the time your turn comes back, it's a 10/10.

It costs one more than Dryad or Goyf, but the extra is blue, which isn't tough, and it'll grow much bigger much faster than either of them. It seems like it has potential for sure. Hell, if Cold-Eyed Selkie and Noble Hierarch are seeing play, why can't this one make friends with them?

Wait wait wait?  Where are Cold-Eyed Sekie and Noble Heirarch seeing play?  I want in on  this fantasy land!

In a version of UGW Fish. Theres a thread on this site talking about it. It also made some good results at the TMD open. Day 1 it took 6th and day 2 it took 4th.

Thread about UWG Fish: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37264.0
TMD Day 1 & 2 report: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37654.0

[CJster]

No one has yet made a reason to play this card over dryad or psychatog.  Dryad is played as a 1 of in the few grow decks running around and I haven't seen psychatog played since the gushbond era.

Play Tarmogoyf, he grows faster and easier to cast. 

Also, why all the references to the gushbond era....you may as well say you wish to play in the 4x necropotence era

[Implacable]

Maybe I'm a complete idiot; but this guy seems pretty darn good to me.  A man who grows every turn, regardless of what you do, and for whom the best thing to do in this format - draw lots of cards - is something that makes him into a beast, seems solid.  He may be three many, but he's a much less all or nothing card than 'Tog, or even Dryad; the former either took forever or involved some risk, and the latter sometimes just sat there.  This guy, on the other hand, very quickly becomes an enormous threat.

[GrandpaBelcher]

I think this guy's pretty nutty as well.  He might not be all-star material in Vintage, but it seems like a beast in Legacy.  Playing this guy and Brainstorming before it attacks makes it at least a 6/6.  That's big.  And you got to Brainstorm.

Seriously, it has synergy with drawing cards.
How can that not find a place in some deck?

This seems exactly right.  Psychatog and Quirion Dryad and Tarmogoyf are good because they get better by virtue of the fact that you're playing Magic, casting spells and drawing more cards.  This guy is very similar.

[nineisnoone]

No one has yet made a reason to play this card over dryad or psychatog.

Pitches to FoW.  Avoids Threads of Disloyalty.  Naturally is functionally a 4 power creature due to naturally getting a counter every turn and is virtually a 5 power creature since it will do 18 damage over 4 turns. More stable and consistent as an attacker.

Cannot combo out as well as Dryad or Psychatog.  A turn slower to cast than Dryad or Tarmogoyf.  Cannot be a quick fix blocker like Psychatog.  Weak against bounce spells and REB/Pyroblast compared to Tarmogoyf and Dryad.

For combo-control decks that run green to open up sideboard options, I could see a couple of him as an alternative to Tarmogoyf if they want a man-plan back-up.  They are roughly the same in turns of damage over time. Tarmogoyf is just cheaper, but Wisescale is blue.  

[Explosion]

No one has yet made a reason to play this card over dryad or psychatog.  Dryad is played as a 1 of in the few grow decks running around and I haven't seen psychatog played since the gushbond era.

This gets +1/+1 for every turn, guaranteed. Brainstorm, Thirst, A. Recall are all +3 for this instead of +1 for Dryad; Meditate is +4. Necropotence and Yawg's Bargain are Hatred.

Why's this better than Psychatog? Because you get to keep the cards, and the pump is permanent.

Tarmogoyf tops out at 7/8 in Vintage, and realistically would see 3/4 or 4/5 in the early game (land, instant, artifact, maybe sorcery). Wisescale is going to be 3/3 the first time it attacks due to draw phase alone, and anything like a Brainstorm puts it way ahead. Wisescale is a little more vulnerable to bounce, but Tarmogoyf can be shrunk by incidental graveyard hate.

It's not a grand-slam obvious inclusion, but I wouldn't count this one out yet. Getting bigger just for drawing cards is exactly the sort of creature that can be a star in Vintage.

[CJster]

The ease to cast is what makes cards vintage playable.  Last I checked we only get 1 brainstorm and 1 ancestral recall.  Not much for cultivating.  If someone plays this guy then yawg bargains then they already won the game and do not need the creature.

Dryad: is better because he grows on spells played...not just draw spells.  He is 1G to cast and can come down easily t1 or t2.  This creature and dryad also have the same opening for being bounced and losing ALL of hte counters and starting over.

Tog: Same ease to cast. More explosive. He is not as run as much now because he IS that much tougher to cast.

Goyf: Same ease to cast as dryad.  Comes in a much stronger creature.  And if you want to talk clocks and kill speeds than goyf and this creature will tie. Incidental graveyard graveyard hate does not happen in this format.


Pitching to FoW is the only mentioned bonus.  Threads of disloyalty are not run in this format.

I am saying there is better out there.  He is a good concept, maybe great in legacy...but this is vintage, it takes alot more to qualify. 

[honestabe]

I forsee BANT fish being big in both Legacy and Vintage, so I'm sure this guy will see his amount of play

[Grand Inquisitor]

The ease to cast power of effect is what makes cards vintage playable.

Fixed that for ya.  Obviously both are important, but this is the format where you'll find that regardless of how much they try to make some effect 'fair' through handicapping it, the mana acceleration and ways to cheat things into play always trump the best laid plans of RnD.

BANT fish

Maybe in legacy, but I haven't seen anything that should outmaneuver Tinker+Draw engine.

*edit*
Let me flesh that out a bit.  If fish is going to be playing 3 cc spells (this, selkie, bant charm, etc) it probably won't be running null rod.  If it doesn't have null rod, I haven't seen anything from the new set which will compare with the power of the current combo control decks.

[Mantis]

With Bargain or Necro out or Meditate + Remora you should be winning the game already, so lets focus on games where this is not win more. This card sure looks very powerful, especialy in Legacy it seems a bit freaky in decks with 4 Top, 4 BS and 4 Ponder. Im really not sure about Vintage, this may find its home in Fish but 4 Goyf might be enough fat beatsticks.  Im not going to dismiss this too early, it seems playable. In a deck with 4 Top, Drain and all the broken artifact accel it may find its home.

[wiley]

Just an FYI, necro doesn't pump this guy.

The acquired cards are not considered draws. They will not cause damage with Underworld Dreams or have Enduring Renewal detect creatures. [D'Angelo 1995/12/08]

from here: http://magiccards.info/5e/en/44.html

[nineisnoone]

The ease to cast is what makes cards vintage playable.  Last I checked we only get 1 brainstorm and 1 ancestral recall.  Not much for cultivating.  If someone plays this guy then yawg bargains then they already won the game and do not need the creature.

Dryad: is better because he grows on spells played...not just draw spells.  He is 1G to cast and can come down easily t1 or t2.  This creature and dryad also have the same opening for being bounced and losing ALL of hte counters and starting over.

Tog: Same ease to cast. More explosive. He is not as run as much now because he IS that much tougher to cast.

Dryad:  How many spells are you going to cast?  You forget that he gets a free counter every turn and starts at 2/2.  So he's already two counters ahead, and increases one naturally. Wisecale kills in 5 attacks.  To kill in four turns with Dryad, you need four spells and you need them before your first attack. Wisescale can kill in 4 attacks with a draw two on it's last attack.  Outside of comboing out for a huge Dryad (which isn't going to happen with restrictions) and the 3 mana cost, this is almost strictly better.

Tog: It's not really more explosive anymore due to the restrictions, and this is a better steady damage dealer.  3 mana is not really that bad either presuming a GAT-style aggro-control deck or a man-plan sideboard. 

[CJster]

Dryad:  How many spells are you going to cast?  You forget that he gets a free counter every turn and starts at 2/2.  So he's already two counters ahead, and increases one naturally. Wisecale kills in 5 attacks.  To kill in four turns with Dryad, you need four spells and you need them before your first attack. Wisescale can kill in 4 attacks with a draw two on it's last attack.  Outside of comboing out for a huge Dryad (which isn't going to happen with restrictions) and the 3 mana cost, this is almost strictly better.

Tog: It's not really more explosive anymore due to the restrictions, and this is a better steady damage dealer.  3 mana is not really that bad either presuming a GAT-style aggro-control deck or a man-plan sideboard. 

Tarmogoyf and dryad are coming down at least a turn sooner.  Killing in 5 attacks is not good enough without major support from lock pieces or heavy counterspells. The mana bases of GAT style decks are very light running maybe 12-13 land and 2-3 mox + lotus.  If there is no nonbasic hate and your not playing against shop, you may get this guy out t2.

I do not support the use of Tog in this environment.

Maybe this guy will see play in any UGW fish variant next to trygon predator and cold eye selkie.  I believe that this creature is better tuned to legacy.  If it works out in vintage and I am dead wrong....that will make me happy too. I have no problem in an increase in our cardpools.

[nineisnoone]

Tarmogoyf and dryad are coming down at least a turn sooner.  Killing in 5 attacks is not good enough without major support from lock pieces or heavy counterspells. The mana bases of GAT style decks are very light running maybe 12-13 land and 2-3 mox + lotus.  If there is no nonbasic hate and your not playing against shop, you may get this guy out t2.

Well, I'm going to stop arguing because it's not like I think the card will be heavily played or especially relevant even if it is.  But I feel lot of your criticisms are somewhat slighted.  You compare this creature in its worse case to Dryad/Tog in it's best case.  He's a perfectly legitimate creature.  Not ground breaking or anything.  But something on the level of seeing a Negator or Tarmogoyf in a sideboard or even the occasional Ophidian. 

Maybe this guy will see play in any UGW fish variant next to trygon predator and cold eye selkie.

I actually think this would be bad in a UGW fish variant personally.

[Vegeta2711]

One mana beyond easily playable. I'm sure some sod will try it somewhere just like every other random card, but it won't make it right.

[Guli]

Enchantment, 
At the beginning of your draw step, you may draw two additional cards. If you do, choose two cards in your hand drawn this turn. For each of those cards, pay 4 life or put the card on top of your library.

I think it has potential. You got the usual package scroll/A-call/brainstorm/ponder. Actually there are a lot draw cards out there that don't see a lot of play. Maybe the serpent can stimulate further use of those cards. I am talking about cards like Opt, Ideas Unbound and Careful Study.

Also interesting would be a deck with free cycling :p

[Diakonov]

3 mana is real heavy, especially for a creature that has no immediate impact on the gamestate.  I mean, if you look at all the creatures being used right now, off the top of my head I can only think of Magus of the Moon, Aven Mindcensor, and Trygon Predator.  (Excluding techy-silver-bullet stuff like Old Man of the Sea.)  All of these creatures are an integral part of a larger disruption plan and at least I think pretty obviously are more devastating right off the bat in most Vintage matches.

The Sylvan Library synergy is great, but probably not quite enough.

[zeus-online]

I think this is strictly worse then Psychatog...Since you psychatog feeds off every card you've drawn even before the 'Tog lands, While this has to be in play before you start drawing...In fish deck you're not likely to go nuts with card-draw, and in control decks you most likely want to draw the cards before you land your finisher.

/Zeus

[dawgie]

I like the card but I too think its slow in Vintage. Its more of a Legacy card.

If I was able to play this, I would somehow have a Tropical Island in play and another Island. If I had that mana base, I would rather play Vendilion Clique. I know its a different card but Clique can be a finisher and disrupts as it comes into play.