M10 boons for Workshop decks thread...

[LotusHead]

Well, the new M10 rules are certainly going to shake things up.  When the dust clears, what will be it's actual impact on Vintage?

Shop decks get to delight in tapping fatty lands with no risk of mana burn.
Mishra's Workshop
Ancient Tomb (still the -2 ouch factor)
City of Traitors
Tolarian Academy
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Metal Worker
Gilded Lotus
Black Lotus


In my one game of testing vs a competent player on MWS (Col.Impact playing LandStill), I was spared at LEAST 5 points worth of mana burn life loss, and knowing we were playing M10 rules, I could aggressively play my lock pieces without repurcussion.

Landstill vs The Claw, no combat tricks, lifelink, deathtouch, wishes or any of that came into play.

But what does Stax/Shops/ShopAggro gain from M10 changes?

The mana burn issue rules are certainly more favorable. SUCHI!
Mana pools emptying prior to draw step (suck it blue players!) helps us and Tangle Wires.
Trikes blocking Goyf's are worse (no 4 damage on the stack, ping for 3 stuffs)
Leylines (I assume) get better (everything gone due to leyline is gone GONE? Exiled?)
Mulliganing is more fair (Shop decks mull a lot, makes 1 land hands better for blue players).

Any other boons (or detriments) to shop decks that we should know about?

I think Memory Jar tricks are unnaffected, but I could definately be wrong.

What am I missing?
What M10 changes are good for shops?
What M10 changes are bad for shops?

we have a month to figure this stuff out with the existing cardpool, but M10 has like 150 new cards (nice ones too.).

Thoughts?

[IthilanorStPete]

Shouldn't affect Leyline's functionality at all.

[dragzz]

Welder combat tricks are gone, ie. stacking damage then switching artifacts.

[tomjoad]

Shouldn't affect Leyline's functionality at all.

There is some question as to whether or not Wishes and Research will be able to get cards in the Exile zone. As currently worded, Exiled cards would not be retrievable by such cards, though it is possible that the Wishes and Research could be errataed to include Exile as a legal zone for them to retrieve cards from.

[theLastGnu]

Shouldn't affect Leyline's functionality at all.

There is some question as to whether or not Wishes and Research will be able to get cards in the Exile zone. As currently worded, Exiled cards would not be retrievable by such cards, though it is possible that the Wishes and Research could be errataed to include Exile as a legal zone for them to retrieve cards from.

They pretty clearly said that that would not be the case:

However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes, Ring of Ma'rûf, and the Research half of Research // Development. These cards let you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game (and you could argue that they never really were), so these cards will no longer be able to access cards in that zone.[/quote

[IthilanorStPete]

Shouldn't affect Leyline's functionality at all.

There is some question as to whether or not Wishes and Research will be able to get cards in the Exile zone. As currently worded, Exiled cards would not be retrievable by such cards, though it is possible that the Wishes and Research could be errataed to include Exile as a legal zone for them to retrieve cards from.

How often does the scenario of an opponent Wishing/Researching for a Leyline'd card come up, anyways?

[A_Outcast]

with the change to mana pools, tangle wire became infinately better.

the damage no longer using the stack rule makes trike...  a double edged sword.  he can be used to ping your opponents 1/1s for fun, however he can no longer eliminate that goyf they have.

begining of the end step can be meh, depending.  if yawgmoth's will lasts until the turn ends, and something like say, memory jar, is at the begining of the end step, you cant favorably stack it so you discard your yawgmoth's ends then you discard your hand to memory jar to help build your yard for welder.

combat damage and mana pools seem to be the only thing that really will effect stax decks.

the exile/R&d/wishes change could also hurt stax deck.  While no, it wont directly hurt stax, it will probobly force the people playing those decks to play other decks and if they play something that prays on stax then yes, it might hurt stax.  if they play something that falls victim to stax, then no, its good for stax.   However, this will likely be irrelevent.