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Author Topic: Rasputin Oath  (Read 8290 times)
meadbert
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« on: June 16, 2009, 05:22:38 pm »

4 City Of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Rasputin Dreamweaver
4 Pandemonium
4 Recoup
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Saproling Burst
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Life From The Loam
2 Krosan Reclamation
4 Replenish
sideboard
1 Progenitus
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Leyline Of The Void
3 Choke
3 Root Maze

Okay, so this looks like utter total jank and I was not even that impressed when I goldfished with it, but then I started testing with it and somehow it was doing reasonably well, particularly post board.
By no means is the above list finished or polished and I think there is a ton of room for improvement so hopefully there will be some suggestions.

So the win is the standard non type 1 playable Pandeburst combo.  I am not going to go into the mechanics, but basically Pandemonium + Sapproling Burst = you win.  In a world with Painter/Grindstone and Key/Vault this seems weak, but then there is this card called Replenish.  Other options were SquirrelCraft possibly including Goblin Bombardment, but that requires a basic land, and the Opalescense + Decree of Silence, but that is heavily reliant on the yard and causes some nasty interactions with Oath.  I am very open to an improved win condition!  Also, I almost always board down to 3xPanamonium, 3xSapproling Burst and 3xRecoup post board.  I also usually swap out a Krosan Reclamation for Progenitus.

So the ideal way a games plays out is that you drop Mox, Orchard, Oath on turn 1.  Then turn 2 you Oath up Rasputin Dreamweaver.  Rasputin can generate 7 colorless which allows you to pay  {R} {W} to Flashback Recoup on Replenish for the win assuming you have 1 of each in the yard.  In case Rasputin is drawn you pitch to Bazaar and then Krosan Reclamation him back into your deck.

Bazaar and Loam are great for finding Orchard.
Replenish gets back a countered or Duressed Oath.
Bazaar or Loam put Enchantments in the yard.
Even without Oath Replenish can just win on its own for 4 mana.
Finally if Replenish is Forced/Duressed you can still flash it back with Recoup.

Playing against this deck can be annoying because it frequently starts with Waste or Strip.
Then it plays Oath so you counter that.
Then Loam recurs Waste so you start fetching basics.
Next they go for Replenish so you counter that.
Next they Recoup Replenish and you lost.

Because Oath can happily slow roll with Waste/Loam/Bazaar recursion there is always the risk of losing to hardcast Pandeburst.

Preboard there are two main issues.  First, there is no answer to Needle naming Sapproling Burst outside of Rasputin beats which I have never yet pulled off.  It turns out that this is currently irrelevant since no one name Saproling Burst with Pithing Needle.  They are far more likely to name Bazaar, Waste or Strip.

The next weakness is to combo preboad.  This Oath list can be pretty fast, but it still struggles with the usual issue that it must find both Oath and Orchard and at the same time 1 Strip and 3 Wastes is just not enough disruption.

Post board things improve across the board.
Choke and Rootmaze are brutal hate to bring in against most blue based control decks.  You end up with plays like turn 1 Oath, turn 2 Choke and turn 3 Replenish, thus blue based control just hates every turn.  Choke + Rootmaze is mostly a lock for most blue based decks.

Pyrostatic Pillar and Root Maze are a good combination to bring in against Long.  Root Maze helps perpetuate a Waste/Strip lock and does not effect your own fetchless mana base.
Pandeburst and Replenish are uneffected by Pillar.

You have the Leylines for Dredge where you can either race or just keep recuring Leylines.

Based on the fact that I have been always boarding down to 3xRecoup, Pandemonium and Sapproling Burst post board I think it is safe to say the main deck should probably do the same thing which frees up 3 slots.

A Wasteland would be the obvious addition.

Are there any better combos than Pandeburst?  At first I wanted Decree of Silence and Opalescense.  The trouble was that if my yard was hated out Decree was difficult to hardcast and Opalescense was not realistic to win with on its own.  Another combination was Mystic Stagnation and Leyline of the Void perhaps in conjunction with Opalescense, but that soft lock did not seem too effective and if my yard was hated out it could get ugly.

I also considered something along the lines of Bargain, Cadaverous Bloom and Words of Worship.  That is infinite draw, infinite mana and infinite life.  Add in Words of War and you have infinite Damage. 

Aura of Silence might be worth adding since it stops Key/Vault, Painter/Grindstone and slows storm.  Also it remove Needle in case of Needle naming Burst.

What other possibilities are there regarding Replenish targets?


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Wagner
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 06:32:20 pm »

I love you man, I have been bothering my friend for at least 2 years with my Rasputin saying it could be used in Oath, I'm not alone anymore...

Unfortunately, I never actually designed the deck and my plan was more of a Recoup/Will approach so I can't really compare, but your shell looks nice actually.
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Sam101
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 06:40:00 pm »

I think this deck is really cool.

I love you man, I have been bothering my friend for at least 2 years with my Rasputin saying it could be used in Oath, I'm not alone anymore...

Unfortunately, I never actually designed the deck and my plan was more of a Recoup/Will approach so I can't really compare, but your shell looks nice actually.

The problem with Recoup -> Will is that will is restricted.  So there is a 50 50 chance that you won't flip up Will when Oathing up Rasputin.

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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 08:43:00 pm »

Poisoned, stabbed, shot, disemboweled, clubbed, and they still had to drown his ass. Rasputin Dreamweaver should totally be errata'ed to be indestructible!

Anyway, neat idea. Hope you can really break it somehow.

-Dave
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John Jones
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 09:26:20 pm »

If you are running so many cards that you want to see at certain times, why not run a Vamp and a seal?
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meadbert
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 09:40:32 pm »

I think this deck is really cool.

I love you man, I have been bothering my friend for at least 2 years with my Rasputin saying it could be used in Oath, I'm not alone anymore...

Unfortunately, I never actually designed the deck and my plan was more of a Recoup/Will approach so I can't really compare, but your shell looks nice actually.

The problem with Recoup -> Will is that will is restricted.  So there is a 50 50 chance that you won't flip up Will when Oathing up Rasputin.


Actually it is a little better than this.  If you flip Demonic Tutor then you can still Recoup Demonic and cast Will off Rasputin for  {R} {B} {B} which is very realistic.
Furthermore you can run Diabolic Intents and then Recoup that sacking Rasputin for the same cost.  The trouble with Intent is that it is dead the rest of the time.  Also, while Yawg is broken, so is Replenish.  The fact that you can run 4 Replenishes and they get back countered Oaths is nice.  I have tested both ways and I thought Replenish was a bit better than Yawg, but I could be wrong.  Also, if you go the Yawg route then you could just run Grim Tutors instead of Diabolic Intent and then Dark Rituals.  Then you can go for a standard Long style win that is indepent of Oath.  Recouping Grim for Yawg ends up costing  {R} {B} {B} {B} with Rasputin.  That is steep unless you have a Ritual in which case it is easy so I could definitely see a Longish list with Oaths and Rasputin instead of draw 7s.
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 05:44:00 pm »

Rasputin, oh so long that dood has been around, and never ever played.  the recoup/replenish combo seems pretty amazing for rasputin oath.  Thanks meadbert for once again creating a completely fresh deck for us to kick around.  Master mad scientist of vintage indeed.

I will state the obvious, but the eight slots devoted to the pandeburst kill really seem like too much.  Do you have lots of problems with getting hands full of jank and topdecking saproling when what you need is business?  If i were to play something like this i would probably opt for replenish into combo enablers like bargain then go for the kill with tendrils or somesuch.  but i dont have anything concrete to say at the moment, as i simply havent given this deck enough thought.

Thought Reflection.  I really want to see that card busted wide open... but i cant think of anything to do with it other than win more in a storm deck.  but it does seem like a very nice thing to have in play.  oath/bazaar/replenish seems like a good engine for dropping this fast.  but then what?  most of the big busted blue enchantments have the "and then" problem.  Still, if you replenish into say future sight, mind over matter, thought reflection, and bargain that should pretty much end the game on the spot, whatever you might choose to use to deal the deathblow.
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meadbert
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 06:03:48 pm »

Thought Reflection could be insane if it stacks like I think.  I believe that if you cast Brainstorm with all 4 out then that would be 24 draws.  Bargain draws as much as we want though.

I am pretty sure that Pandeburst is basically akin to (Ravager + 4xDisciple + 4xOrnithopter) in Flash.  Basically it gets the job done, but in way more slots that needed.

My guess is there are much better options out there.  I am hoping we can find some better options.  Even if I stick with Pandeburst I would probably drop to 3xeach of the Combo Pieces.

Also it may be that Recoup on Yawg is the best bet with Grim Tutors and Rituals. 

The main advantage of Pandeburst was that it could win with the yard hated out.  Other than that it is not too good.

There is the Bargain/Null Profusion/Fastbond and Sterling Grove mix that was mentioned in another thread.  Basically as long as you get a Profusion + Grove you can pay 1 to put Fastbond on top, play Fastbond and then you can just keep playing cards off the top hopefully, but that was not working too well in practice for me.
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 07:01:07 pm »

Rasputin is so awesome, I'm afraid people will not search him at all or only get the oracle text. Here is a picture.

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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 07:22:08 pm »

I definitely think you need some cabal therapies.

Main phase you could remove the 7 counters from Rasp, then flashback cabal therapy to help clear the way, then recoup -> replenish.

Cabal therapy can be a solid turn one play as well (even if you end up going fishing).

Sam
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meadbert
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 10:22:11 am »

Therapies seem pretty good.  So if I drop down to 3xRecoup 3xPandeburst then I could add a 4th Wasteland and 2xCabal Therapy.

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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 12:53:12 pm »

So now you have 6 pandeburst combo pieces.  How about something like 2-3 thought reflection, bargain, fastbond, 1-2 dream halls.  6-7 slots devoted to uncastable enchantments seems about right.  the difference with these are that if you actually just old-fashined hardcast one, they are all good cards on their own.  Reflection does stack, at least thats the ruling i found.  so if you replenish into 2x reflection, suddenly bazaar taps for eight and you brainstorm at 12.  after a one-sided draw seven++, the win is really academic.

although the deck im proposing would be mostly a completely different deck.  some more draw spells obviously.  a brainstorm, deep anal or two, gush, merch scroll come to mind.  and force of course.

having bargain and reflection side by side seems a bit win more.  i think thats the big problem here.  if you have one bargain you usually win, right?  i know that ive whiffed enough times bargaining or necroing once you already take some beats.  its not an auto-win if youre under 10 life.  bargain+reflection is like having a second bargain in play, except that you only have to pay to use one.
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 01:15:31 pm »

To clear up though reflection:

Quote
5/1/2008: The effects of multiple Thought Reflections are cumulative. For example, if you have three Thought Reflections in play, you'll draw eight times the original number of cards.

From here: http://magiccards.info/shm/en/53.html

Burst and pandemonium are fairly easy to cast, the only real problem is that you need both of them.  However it may be easier to get both of them than it would be to get the 1 bargain given demonic as your only straight up tutor.  Also, where is the actual win if you dedicate those 6 slots to reflections, fastbonds and bargain?

The only other combo that I could think of I had already suggested to Bert a long time ago with the old Leviat combo with form of the dragon and solitary confinement.  But that lead into a harder to support soft lock rather than a win at sorcery speed.

Here is a search for all non-aura enchantments currently in the game, just beware there is a lot of chaff to wade through if you are going to look through it.  http://magiccards.info/query/cards/5780429.html


EDIT: Does Mystic Remora have any place in the deck?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 01:54:53 pm by wiley » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 02:08:44 pm »

This is much worse than a normal Oath deck, and much worse than a dedicated PandeBurst deck. If you want to play Oath, pack in a lot more search and control elements. If you want to play Pandeburst, just play 1-2 copies of each with an Intuition and control shell or something.
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 09:32:10 pm »

This is much worse than a normal Oath deck, and much worse than a dedicated PandeBurst deck. If you want to play Oath, pack in a lot more search and control elements. If you want to play Pandeburst, just play 1-2 copies of each with an Intuition and control shell or something.

How do you figure?

I don't know how strong this deck is (or whether its strong at all), but I think you should at least try to explain why you think it bad.

I like this deck on paper because it has so many hidden synergies and engines, and that you could easily win without resolving oath (which is really helpful against some of the current fish decks running around (with meddling mage and qasali pridemage).  Im definitely going to try this on MWS some time.

I also like the pandemonium kill rather than some combination of card advantage enchantments.

Sam
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2009, 07:59:02 am »

This is much worse than a normal Oath deck, and much worse than a dedicated PandeBurst deck. If you want to play Oath, pack in a lot more search and control elements. If you want to play Pandeburst, just play 1-2 copies of each with an Intuition and control shell or something.

Even in its current form this is a major improvement over pandaburst, I can say this from experience and testing.  Unfortunately that doesn't say much.

The question is whether it can perform better than existing oath decks.  In its current for I would say no, however the deck is currently bogged down with an unnecessary amount of combo pieces.  Freeing up those slots allows for more disruption past wastes and a couple cabal therapies.  With this, and the fact that the deck can win without casting oath, not to mention ways to get a countered oath back, and the fact that it wins the turn you oath, often through counter magic, means it has the possibility to become a viable oath variant.
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« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2009, 08:29:45 am »

This is much worse than a normal Oath deck, and much worse than a dedicated PandeBurst deck. If you want to play Oath, pack in a lot more search and control elements. If you want to play Pandeburst, just play 1-2 copies of each with an Intuition and control shell or something.

How do you figure?

I don't know how strong this deck is (or whether its strong at all), but I think you should at least try to explain why you think it bad.

I like this deck on paper because it has so many hidden synergies and engines, and that you could easily win without resolving oath (which is really helpful against some of the current fish decks running around (with meddling mage and qasali pridemage).  Im definitely going to try this on MWS some time.

I also like the pandemonium kill rather than some combination of card advantage enchantments.

Sam

"I figure" because of how basic deck construction works, and specifically, how deck construction in Vintage works.
1) This is worse than a normal Oath deck because you don't have as many spells and tools for both finding your combo and protecting your combo (because you're wasting 19 cards on Pandemonium, Saproling Burst, Replenish, Recoup, Life From the Loam, and Bazaar of Baghdad).
2) This is worse than a normal PandeBurst deck because you are wasting a number of cards on Oath crap or cute tricks (Oath of Druids, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Life From the Loam, Krosan Reclamation, Recoup, Wasteland, etc.).

While you're spending time using Bazaar of Bagdad to dump Life From the Loam and Saproling Burst into your graveyard, your opponent is busy casting spells to win. It's really pretty simple. That's why Replenish decks haven't been successful in Vintage for the past 6+ years.
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2009, 12:37:03 pm »

1) This is worse than a normal Oath deck because you don't have as many spells and tools for both finding your combo and protecting your combo (because you're wasting 19 cards on Pandemonium, Saproling Burst, Replenish, Recoup, Life From the Loam, and Bazaar of Baghdad).
So Pandemonium and Saproling Burst are your combo, Bazaar of Baghdad and Life from the Loam find your combo while Replenish and Recoup protect your combo.  The question is do these do a good enough job.  Oath has been testing well for me in general and I do not believe that this is the best Oath deck, so I agree with your statement in general, but naming Replenish and Bazaar of Baghdads as bad cards are something that I disagree with.

2) This is worse than a normal PandeBurst deck because you are wasting a number of cards on Oath crap or cute tricks (Oath of Druids, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Life From the Loam, Krosan Reclamation, Recoup, Wasteland, etc.).
+ years.
I am not sure what you mean by Oath crap or cute tricks.  If by Oath crap you mean this deck has cards that do not want in hand such as Rasputin and Krosan Reclamation then I agree with you, but I do not see how Oath of Druids, Wasteland or Life from the Loam could be consider either Oath crap or cute tricks.  Oath of Druids is a bomb.  Wasteland is one of the most effective forms of disruption in type 1 and Life from the Loam does everything this deck wants from dredging to drawing to disrupting by recurring Wastelands.

While you're spending time using Bazaar of Bagdad to dump Life From the Loam and Saproling Burst into your graveyard, your opponent is busy casting spells to win. It's really pretty simple. That's why Replenish decks haven't been successful in Vintage for the past 6+ years.
Are you claiming that this deck has a bad combo matchup?  If so I agree.  In general a lack of speed is not a problem at all as this deck races Tez, Bomberman, Slaver, Fish and many other type 1 decks.


Do you have a suggestions on how to improve this deck, or do you consider Replenish to be unviable in type 1?

If you believe Replenish is not viable, do you think a Yawg/Ritual/Grim Tutor shell might work?
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 02:53:01 pm »


Are you claiming that this deck has a bad combo matchup?  If so I agree.  In general a lack of speed is not a problem at all as this deck races Tez, Bomberman, Slaver, Fish and many other type 1 decks.


Are you serious?  Forgive me if I missed something but I don't see a single piece of disruption in your entire deck which actually matters.  I mean, best cast, you Oath up your dude, spend all his counters casting Recoup and then Replenish, and then they have a Force of Will or a Mana Drain and the game is over because you need 8 mana to try again?  I sure hope that I missed some part of your combo here because if that is the case, I don't understand how this could possibly be playable.

Also, Oath is a bomb in normal Oath because it wins the game in 2 turns with no other work required.  In here, it gets you a legend and one chance at some colorless mana, and still requires you to cast spells to win.
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 04:01:33 pm »


Are you claiming that this deck has a bad combo matchup?  If so I agree.  In general a lack of speed is not a problem at all as this deck races Tez, Bomberman, Slaver, Fish and many other type 1 decks.


Are you serious?  Forgive me if I missed something but I don't see a single piece of disruption in your entire deck which actually matters.  I mean, best cast, you Oath up your dude, spend all his counters casting Recoup and then Replenish, and then they have a Force of Will or a Mana Drain and the game is over because you need 8 mana to try again?  I sure hope that I missed some part of your combo here because if that is the case, I don't understand how this could possibly be playable.

Also, Oath is a bomb in normal Oath because it wins the game in 2 turns with no other work required.  In here, it gets you a legend and one chance at some colorless mana, and still requires you to cast spells to win.
Usually your opponent will spend their counter magic fighting Oath.
There are 2xKrosan Reclamation thus you can keep putting as many as 4 Replenish on the bottom of your library.  Force/Drain delay by a turn your win.
Then post board if they decide to just let Oath resolve you have Progenitus.

Perhaps you misunderstood my quote above.  I was not suggesting that this deck beats Tez, Slaver etc.  If so I would have put it in the open forum.  I only claimed that it has a faster goldfish.

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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2009, 04:48:32 pm »

Have you thought about running a second Rasputin MD just in case things don't go as planned with the first one? You would need away to sac your first Rasputin before Oathing though. It might be too much of a pain unless you use Diabolic Intents as mentioned above.
Here's an untested list I made just a moment ago. I tried to add more disruption.
//Lands: 16
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Strip Mine
2 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Wasteland

//Creatures: 1
1 Rasputin Dreamweaver

//Other Spells: 43
3 Crop Rotation
2 Krosan Reclamation
1 Fastbond
3 Recoup
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Brainstorm
2 Saproling Burst
2 Pandemonium
3 Replenish
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Duress
1 Black Lotus
4 Negate (not enough blue cards to play FoW)
4 Oath of Druids
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
5 SoloMox

I'm also going to try a more all in combo version of the deck too.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 06:02:47 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2009, 05:06:38 pm »

Have you thought about running a second Rasputin MD just in case things don't go as planned with the first one? You would need away to sac your first Rasputin before Oathing though. It might be too much of a pain.

Shouldn't Krosan Reclamation prevent this from happening?
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2009, 07:06:50 pm »

Have you thought about running a second Rasputin MD just in case things don't go as planned with the first one? You would need away to sac your first Rasputin before Oathing though. It might be too much of a pain.

Shouldn't Krosan Reclamation prevent this from happening?
True, I missed that.
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2009, 12:08:01 am »

1) This is worse than a normal Oath deck because you don't have as many spells and tools for both finding your combo and protecting your combo (because you're wasting 19 cards on Pandemonium, Saproling Burst, Replenish, Recoup, Life From the Loam, and Bazaar of Baghdad).
So Pandemonium and Saproling Burst are your combo, Bazaar of Baghdad and Life from the Loam find your combo while Replenish and Recoup protect your combo.  The question is do these do a good enough job.  Oath has been testing well for me in general and I do not believe that this is the best Oath deck, so I agree with your statement in general, but naming Replenish and Bazaar of Baghdads as bad cards are something that I disagree with.
Yes, Bazaar of Baghdad and Replenish are very nice cards in a vacuum, but if you spend 4 mana for something in Vintage it should be along the lines of the Gifts Ungiven power level, ideally.

2) This is worse than a normal PandeBurst deck because you are wasting a number of cards on Oath crap or cute tricks (Oath of Druids, Rasputin Dreamweaver, Life From the Loam, Krosan Reclamation, Recoup, Wasteland, etc.).
+ years.
I am not sure what you mean by Oath crap or cute tricks.  If by Oath crap you mean this deck has cards that do not want in hand such as Rasputin and Krosan Reclamation then I agree with you, but I do not see how Oath of Druids, Wasteland or Life from the Loam could be consider either Oath crap or cute tricks.  Oath of Druids is a bomb.  Wasteland is one of the most effective forms of disruption in type 1 and Life from the Loam does everything this deck wants from dredging to drawing to disrupting by recurring Wastelands.
Life From the Loam is pretty weak in here, and weak in Vintage in general. You are just playing fair with Life From the Loam if you're using it to recur lands and play one a turn (or in conjuction with Bazaar, where you're still spending your draw phase to recur it and 2 mana to cast it). I myself have played multiple Life from the Loams in more controlling and/or mana denial versions of Oath, and it just doesn't do enough to really impress me. I'd rather spend the slots and tempo on actually furthering my game plan rather than stalling my opponent. Oath of Druids can be a bomb, but not when you're Oathing up Rasputin Dreamweaver.

While you're spending time using Bazaar of Bagdad to dump Life From the Loam and Saproling Burst into your graveyard, your opponent is busy casting spells to win. It's really pretty simple. That's why Replenish decks haven't been successful in Vintage for the past 6+ years.
Are you claiming that this deck has a bad combo matchup?  If so I agree.  In general a lack of speed is not a problem at all as this deck races Tez, Bomberman, Slaver, Fish and many other type 1 decks.

Do you have a suggestions on how to improve this deck, or do you consider Replenish to be unviable in type 1?

If you believe Replenish is not viable, do you think a Yawg/Ritual/Grim Tutor shell might work?
I'm claiming that in 2009 Vintage decks are strictly more high powered than spending a shitload of mana and draws to merely dump some enchantments in the graveyard to cast Replenish. Intuition does all of that much better, at Instant speed, and costing you less tempo and slots in a deck if you insist on using Replenish. I used to play a Replenish deck when I first came back to Vintage for the umpteenth time quite a while ago circa 2000 or so (mainly because the people in my area would have been totally blown out if I played anything real), and frankly the card is a waste of time. There are so many better ways to abuse the best cards ever printed in this format, so you're just doing yourself an injustice by playing (what I view as) inferior cards. If you want to play an Oath deck with a combo finish, I'd suggest just using tutors and an Eternal Witness to get back Yawgmoth's Will or whatever else you plan on abusing, but I think that would just be a waste of effor too probably (because again, you're spending the time and deck slots on unneccessary stuff like Oath of Druids in a combo deck).

Hopefully that makes sense and you can get an idea of why I think spending the effort to Oath of something like Rasputin is too much effort for too little reward.
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the boogie man
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2009, 02:01:44 pm »

I personally think its a cool idea, even if it isn't the most competitive deck. Even if rasputin oath wins one tournament, it will be worth the effort.

I think the opalescence decree of silence idea might be worth exploring again. It seems that root maze is good in a lot of your bad matchups, and that would bolster your mana denial plan as well. and if you ran more enchantments, enlighened tutor could be awesome, allowing for shenanigans like tutor, tap bazaar, play whatever you got.
i wish chains of mephistopheles worked with bazaar. it does work with dredge though. With enough md enchantments, opalescence become a bomb, especially in multiples. even beating every turn with a root maze, sylvan library, and aura of silence is 6 damage a turn, and if you resolve another one, thats 14. that is a pretty low possibility, but it seems better than pandemonium. and it probably does more damage than saproling burst. and decree of silence is at least a 6  mana uncounterable counterspell that draws you a card. that might be relevant.  And I doubt that any deck would be able to play through the combo resolving. it also does so through pithing needle, which is nice.

just as a starting point:

4 oath
4 rootmaze
3 sylvan library
2 aura of silence
1 krosan reclamation

1 rasputin

2 opalescence
2 decree of silence
3 recoup
3 replenish

2 life from the loam

2 enlightened tutor
2 crop rotation

2 duress
2 cabal therapy
1 thoughtseize

4 forbidden orchard
2 bazaar
3 waste
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
1 strip mine

5 mox
1 black lotus

the deck is really cramped. the couple of crop rotations are in there to cheat on the number of bazaar and wastes, as well as being a tutor for orchard when necessary. It also tutors for strip, making lftl a little more exciting.  the enlightened tutors are oath tutors and also find stuff like aura of silence or root maze or something. I haven't tested it, but I suspect they are really good post board. the four rootmaze main are a real pain for a lot of decks, and they make wastes a lot more effective.

I like sylvan library, and with it and bazaar, you see tons of new cards every turn. with a decent amount of enchantments(17), opalescence and replenish are pretty good, and oath is basically winning the turn it activates. As insurance, you could enlightened tutor for either piece, and then you will automatically have ! piece, along with whatever else replenish grabs.
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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 05:39:17 pm »

If anyone has any ideas for a yawgmoth's will oath combo deck with Rasputin I'd love to see them, I don't have any idea as to how to start building that deck but it would be awesome.
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MTGFan
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 12:54:12 am »

This is a cool idea, but the Pandaburst combo seems kind of weak. There has to be a better option, like some kind of one-card instant-win. Hmm.

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shadow00
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2009, 09:26:53 am »

Interesting idea, its a cool twist compared to the average oath lists out nowadays.
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BruiZar
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« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2009, 08:21:24 pm »

I'd remove the opalescences and the other worthless enchantments and run Hive Mind. Use a Pact to kill of your opponent. Too bad recoup can't return Instants, otherwise it would be even better.
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Lurker101
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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2009, 01:29:17 pm »

I'd remove the opalescences and the other worthless enchantments and run Hive Mind. Use a Pact to kill of your opponent. Too bad recoup can't return Instants, otherwise it would be even better.
Sweet! A deck shell to abuse Hive Mind in!That's a really good idea. It requires less assembly and less combo slots, also Pact of Negation is a worthwhile card on it's own (most of the time).
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