Shop Rotation (First Thoughts)

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I’ll get the ball rolling on the Shop builds using the new unrestricted cards.

“Shop Rotation”

4 Crop Rotation
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tanglewire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Intuition
1 Reconstruction
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Karn. Silver Golem
1 Razormane Masticore

4 Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Gemstone Mine
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

This is my first draft of a deck like this.  Obviously the main lock parts are the 9Sphere plus Strip-Crucible.  In this initial draft, I’m concentrating on assembling the lock as fast as possible.  

The 4 Rotations get Strip and I’m playing a Wasteland as backup against Pithing Needle.  Tinker and Intuition are my main support tutors.  I like Intuition in this deck because I can go for Strip Mine-Crucible-Reconstruction and have a good shot at getting whatever part of the lock I’m missing.  Although 4 Intuition may be too many.

I’m not sure about Tanglewire.  I like it because early, it buys me time and against Oath it can tap down their fattie.  Without Welder, though, it’s somewhat questionable I think.  I’m putting Razormane in the maindeck rightnow because of all the Fish decks and once I have the strip lock out, the discard it causes isn’t nearly as hurtful.  Aside from that, Tinker-Leviathan is a strong play no matter what, and I’ve always liked Karn in my Shop builds.

I don’t know.  It’s a first draft.  What do you guys think?

Peace,

-Troy

[A_Outcast]

i would split your fetches 2/2 with flooded and polluted.  that way extripate on a fetch has a much lesser sting.  also, why no tolarian?

[Cavius The Great]

I'd suggest Elvish Spirit Guide, since it seems like the deck lacks green mana sources, it also helps you cast stuff if all you're stuck with is Ancient Tombs and no Workshop. Another words, 3 and 4 seem to be the mana amount this decks wants to be seeing and ESG helps with that.

[Lurker101]

With 4 tropicals, 4 fetches, 1 Mox emerald, and 1 Gemstone Mine I think your deck should be able to consistently get out green mana for Crop Rotation. Also I agree on adding academy, why isn't it there?

[Troy_Costisick]

With 4 tropicals, 4 fetches, 1 Mox emerald, and 1 Gemstone Mine I think your deck should be able to consistently get out green mana for Crop Rotation. Also I agree on adding academy, why isn't it there?

It was an oversight on my part. 

It definately needs to be in.  What would you cut for it?

Peace,

-Troy

[Implacable]

-4 Tangle Wire (Just don't seem necessary)
-1 Mystical Tutor (Slow

+1 Crucible of Worlds (where was this?  That's like playing only three Flashes)
+1 Tolarian Academy
+1 Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Something

But my initial thoughts tended me more towards something along these lines:

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Terravore

4 Crop Rotation
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Null Rod
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Root Maze
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere

6 Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine

Initial thoughts: I'd much rather play something traditional, with an easier Strip-lock, no slow blue moving parts, but instead a heavier creature base that can wreck Remora, and a heavier lock base that targets Vault, which, if you think it's already everywhere, is going to be EVERYWHERE in the next couple of months, yeah?

[Stormanimagus]

I’m not sure about Tanglewire.  I like it because early, it buys me time and against Oath it can tap down their fattie.  Without Welder, though, it’s somewhat questionable I think.  I’m putting Razormane in the maindeck rightnow because of all the Fish decks and once I have the strip lock out, the discard it causes isn’t nearly as hurtful.  Aside from that, Tinker-Leviathan is a strong play no matter what, and I’ve always liked Karn in my Shop builds.

I don't understand why most people think that Oath is still susceptible to cards like Tanglewire. I'd expect that most good Oath Lists now run Progenitus and Tangle Wire doesn't do anything against Progenitus. I'd run Ensnaring Bridge in the SB instead to be honest.

[Blue Lotus]

If I were you I would run G/R.

I think a much better direction for this deck would be to use null rod instead of spheres.  Bazaar, Shop, and multiple spheres means resolving your non-artifact spells will be harder for you than your opponent (as they have lands that produce mana).  Bazaar is free draw, I can't imagine playing shop that wants to abuse the graveyard w/o it.  

Also I've never really like spheres anyway (other than trinisphere), playing 8 gums up your own hand too much and you rely on top decking mana too much.  

And I'm positive with burn gone Ancient Tomb is still garbage.  I can only see it being good in workshop aggro.

I would also include the odyssey threshold lands.  Barb ring is diesel fuel.

So that naturally leads to Goblin Welder again a sin to not include in a grave-based shop strategy.  And recurring tangle wire is even better post m2010.

Basically, I think uba stax minus uba mask and using crop rotation to power out strip lock.  

Maybe fastbond could make maindeck.  Its extra acceleration and is complete blowout with strip + crucible, or even crucible alone.  Could be win more, but its not like its a dead card alone, its an amazing card alone.  

Tabernacle should be in the board, it really disrupts fish, tying up their mana is a great way to buy time and run train.

My initial thoughts.  

[Troy_Costisick]

I’m not sure about Tanglewire.  I like it because early, it buys me time and against Oath it can tap down their fattie.  Without Welder, though, it’s somewhat questionable I think.  I’m putting Razormane in the maindeck rightnow because of all the Fish decks and once I have the strip lock out, the discard it causes isn’t nearly as hurtful.  Aside from that, Tinker-Leviathan is a strong play no matter what, and I’ve always liked Karn in my Shop builds.

I don't understand why most people think that Oath is still susceptible to cards like Tanglewire. I'd expect that most good Oath Lists now run Progenitus and Tangle Wire doesn't do anything against Progenitus. I'd run Ensnaring Bridge in the SB instead to be honest.

Tangle Wire doesn't target, so Progenitus can be affected by it.  After you strip out all their lands, what are they going to have left in play to tap?  EB is a good card for sure, and tech against Inky as well, but Tangle Wire is effective against Oath IMHO.

[Cavius The Great]

-4 Tangle Wire (Just don't seem necessary)
-1 Mystical Tutor (Slow

+1 Crucible of Worlds (where was this?  That's like playing only three Flashes)
+1 Tolarian Academy
+1 Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Something

But my initial thoughts tended me more towards something along these lines:

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Terravore

4 Crop Rotation
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Null Rod
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Root Maze
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere

6 Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine

Initial thoughts: I'd much rather play something traditional, with an easier Strip-lock, no slow blue moving parts, but instead a heavier creature base that can wreck Remora, and a heavier lock base that targets Vault, which, if you think it's already everywhere, is going to be EVERYWHERE in the next couple of months, yeah?

Dare to run Sundering Titan in something like this? 

[nataz]

GAH! 4 crop rotation and no singleton bazaar? Also, whats up with the intuition? 3cc non artifact and blue is hard under spheres, what are you trying to do with it? I'd rather see entomb to throw strip mine right in the yard everytime you get crucible out. Plus you can use it as a psudo crop rotation to fetch singleton lands like tol academy, or bazaar. Heck, even things like b-ring and cabal pit might be doable.

[Random Noob]

I would go more classic, with maybe 2/1 Bazaar, some Spheres and try to du what is Staxx ist used to. So i would play the 5c Landbase with 4 Citys and 3 Gemstone Mine. There will never be the problem that your Gems are getting empty, because you have the Crucibles and can get a better Land easiliy with Crop Rotation. So Balance would be an auto-inclusion, because you can get advantage when your Gemstone Mines remove their last counter.

Maybe like this:


    1 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 City of Brass
    3 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Wasteland


    1 Duplicant
    1 Karn, Silver Golem
    1 Sundering Titan
    1 Triskelion
    4 Goblin Welder

    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    3 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    3 Tangle Wire
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Tinker
    4 Crop Rotation
    1 Balance

[nataz]

here is what I came up with. Screw spheres.

The idea is that crucible is broken with entomb and crop rotation unrest. So I'm trying to maximize ways to get crucible into play. The first is the obvious play big mana like workshop. In addition I think some number of Monoliths is a must since it hits the magic number 3 -> crucible. Any number of plays will get you there turn 1.

Second way to get crucible into play would be with welder. t1 welder, t2 entomb will get you there. T1 welder, t2 crop for bazaar will get you on your way. Portal and Razormain are there for corner cases where you aren't ready to set up the lock, but you have an active welder.  

Library was the best way I found to draw cards in green for less then 2 mana. I considered Dark Con since its less life lost, but I liked that I could draw 4 cards in the same amount of time it took to draw 2 cards. Sure, it takes a lot of life, but if you can set up any of the combos, who cares? Also, its a "may" clause, so once you get low on life you can just skip the extra draws unlike confidant.  

Fastbond combo should be obvious with crucible. Chasm makes fastbond painless, and you just cycle b-rings for the win. You can do a number of other things as well depending on your graveyard/hand.

Anyways, just throwing some ideas out there. I was goldfishing this for a bit, and the core idea seemed really powerful. I think I can work on the mana counts for sure though. This deck doesn't have a high CC, and I'm not runing spheres, so I could prob lose some off color moxen. I could also prob knock off 1 or two riftstone portals, but they make casting all the green spells so much easier. That would add room for more threat density. Figure at least 2/3 slots open there. Not sure what to put in. Maybe null rod? Trying to think of a cheap artifact/land based threat that might synergize with the deck. Perhaps the addition of squee to facilitate bazaar and portal.

**flash edit
Oh man, reading the post above, I forgot balance! between 8  5 color lands and riftstone it shouldn't be hard to get 1W. And on Eastman's suggestion in the new CA thread I think I'd add an ancient grudge as well. MMM, entomb is so good.


// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Mana
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Riftstone Portal
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Black Lotus
    2 Grim Monolith
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Draw & Search
    3 Bazaar of Baghdad
    3 Sylvan Library
    4 Entomb
    4 Crop Rotation

// Creatures
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Razormane Masticore

// Fastbond Combo
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Fastbond
    1 Barbarian Ring

//Strip Lock Combo
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Life from the Loam

// Portal Lock Combo
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Trinisphere

[Cavius The Great]

here is what I came up with. Screw spheres.

The idea is that crucible is broken with entomb and crop rotation unrest. So I'm trying to maximize ways to get crucible into play. The first is the obvious play big mana like workshop. In addition I think some number of Monoliths is a must since it hits the magic number 3 -> crucible. Any number of plays will get you there turn 1.

Second way to get crucible into play would be with welder. t1 welder, t2 entomb will get you there. T1 welder, t2 crop for bazaar will get you on your way. Portal and Razormain are there for corner cases where you aren't ready to set up the lock, but you have an active welder.  

Library was the best way I found to draw cards in green for less then 2 mana. I considered Dark Con since its less life lost, but I liked that I could draw 4 cards in the same amount of time it took to draw 2 cards. Sure, it takes a lot of life, but if you can set up any of the combos, who cares? Also, its a "may" clause, so once you get low on life you can just skip the extra draws unlike confidant.  

Fastbond combo should be obvious with crucible. Chasm makes fastbond painless, and you just cycle b-rings for the win. You can do a number of other things as well depending on your graveyard/hand.

Anyways, just throwing some ideas out there. I was goldfishing this for a bit, and the core idea seemed really powerful. I think I can work on the mana counts for sure though. This deck doesn't have a high CC, and I'm not runing spheres, so I could prob lose some off color moxen. I could also prob knock off 1 or two riftstone portals, but they make casting all the green spells so much easier. That would add room for more threat density. Figure at least 2/3 slots open there. Not sure what to put in. Maybe null rod? Trying to think of a cheap artifact/land based threat that might synergize with the deck. Perhaps the addition of squee to facilitate bazaar and portal.

**flash edit
Oh man, reading the post above, I forgot balance! between 8  5 color lands and riftstone it shouldn't be hard to get 1W. And on Eastman's suggestion in the new CA thread I think I'd add an ancient grudge as well. MMM, entomb is so good.


// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Mana
    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Riftstone Portal
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Black Lotus
    2 Grim Monolith
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Draw & Search
    3 Bazaar of Baghdad
    3 Sylvan Library
    4 Entomb
    4 Crop Rotation

// Creatures
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Razormane Masticore

// Fastbond Combo
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Fastbond
    1 Barbarian Ring

//Strip Lock Combo
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Life from the Loam

// Portal Lock Combo
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Trinisphere

Very solid list. What are the 2 Grim Monoliths for?

[nataz]

mostly because it converts 5 color land + any fast mana (SSG, ESG when I had them in, Mox, Whatever) into 3 colorless mana for crucible first turn. Also, as a limited function they are a great weld target for the production of 3 mana later in the game. I'll look for them when I throw out early an early trini to help play my spells every other turn.

[Implacable]

Wouldn't this be much more hard-locky with Null Rod?  And wouldn't that just be, in general, a solid addition?  Thinking out loud here.

[nataz]

well, the deck started with 4 ssg and 4 esg and 4 null rod, but I moved away from that because I really wanted to play with 4 monoliths and a full set of moxen to help facilitate welding. In the evolution of the deck (all half hours worth) I cut the null rods and some of the ESG's for more moxen. Once I did that, I needed less monoliths. I suspect you could prob cram null rod back in, but I worry about locking yourself out under portal. Not that you have to play portal mind you. If I'd done anything besides goldfish I would have thrown this in the open forum.

Think of the deck less like stax, and more like CA or some kind of combo UbaMask. Stax is slooooow, why port it's idea to a deck with such a capacity for speed?
updated list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation

// Lands
    1 Barbarian Ring
    3 Bazaar of Baghdad
    3 City of Brass
    3 Gemstone Mine
    1 Glacial Chasm
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Riftstone Portal
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Sharuum the Hegemon

// Spells
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Entomb
    1 Fastbond
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Sol Ring
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Balance
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Null Rod

[Troy_Costisick]

I'm seeing some Sylvan Libraries in people's lists.  Can you guys explain how that is an optimal choice in this list?

[Blue Lotus]

Eschewing Null Rod is stupid.  Welder and bazaar makes none of your cards dead, as you can weld them out or pitch them to bazaar.  There is no reason to try to quickly assemble a two card lock combo, especially in vintage, where land destruction isn't a hard lock.  I can't see blowing all your resources to assemble strip + crucible being a consistent path to victory. 

Also by running grim monolith you open yourself up to an opposing null rod more and spirit guides + bazaar are major dyssynergy.

I guess I just want someone to explain how speed outweighs consistency in a shop deck.  Any lock piece you lay down is going to buy you time, the ability to tutor the exact lock piece you are missing (either with entomb or crop rotation) is what excites me. 

[nataz]

@ troy

Library was the best way I found to draw cards in green for less then 2 mana. I considered Dark Con since its less life lost, but I liked that I could draw 4 cards in the same amount of time it took to draw 2 cards. Sure, it takes a lot of life, but if you can set up any of the combos, who cares? Also, its a "may" clause, so once you get low on life you can just skip the extra draws unlike confidant.

plus its in color.

@ blue lotus

workshop does not equal stax.

[LotusHead]

I'm seeing some Sylvan Libraries in people's lists.  Can you guys explain how that is an optimal choice in this list?

I'd guess that it gets around Null Rod, while Sensei's Diving Top does something similar, yet is vulnerable to Null Rod.

[wiley]

Is there a reason it is run over miri's guile?  Will you be taking advantage of the 4 life for a card option so often that paying more for the effect is worth it?

EDIT: After reading through more of the thread it looks like you want to pay the8 life to draw 2 cards.  This seems incredibly bad and in no way worth it.  You use it to stack your deck for use with bazaar when there is little in your hand.  Bazaar and cephalid coliseum are the only draw cards that work well in stax unless you specifically set out to use restricted blue draw spells.

As a suggestion, I would look back into the ubastax primer that vroman made so long ago.  There was a lot of discussion on a gr build that used crop rotation fairly effectively.

[Blue Lotus]

@ blue lotus

workshop does not equal stax.

I guess the best way to make my point is that if you are going to make a deck that loses so much to a resolved null rod, why wouldn't you play Tez and have 1) a better two card win combo and 2) a legitimate draw engine.  Four life per card is a lot.  Especially if a strip lock without null rod does not completely lock someone out of the game. 

EDIT: After reading through more of the thread it looks like you want to pay the8 life to draw 2 cards.  This seems incredibly bad and in no way worth it.  You use it to stack your deck for use with bazaar when there is little in your hand.  Bazaar and cephalid coliseum are the only draw cards that work well in stax unless you specifically set out to use restricted blue draw spells.

As a suggestion, I would look back into the ubastax primer that vroman made so long ago.  There was a lot of discussion on a gr build that used crop rotation fairly effectively.

Again, I agree with this.  I have been tinkering with a straight r/b list with four entomb.  It has some interesting plays as having an untapped swamp and an untapped welder makes it really hard for someone to play around (ie getting chalice and countering moxen) and creating bluff opportunities that stax isn't used too.  Seems a little dependent on either a welder or crucible though. 

[nataz]

@ wiley

Yes, the life loss can be worth it depending on the cards. Life's just a resource, it doesn't matter until you hit zero right? Not to mention you can cycle though cards with bazaar on the table and library active. As for the ubastax primer, if its the same thread that I remember I was prob one of the ones talking about the r/g build. I've twiddled with r/g bazaar stax builds for years, starting with r/g Uba Stax with crop rotation, fastbond, and chasm. In fact, that was my insperation for this deck.

@ blue lotus

What makes you think this deck cares about an opponents null rod? In fact, I'm running three right now, and would run 4 if I had the room. welder, entomb, crop rotation, fastbond are all 1 mana. Null rod and library are 2 mana. the only thing that costs more is cruciible at 3 mana. Not to mention I have 4 welders and grudge.

Seriously, stop thinking of the deck as stax. Think of it more like a blend of cerebral assasin and uba stax. The crucible lock is only the start of the focus. Trinisphere and Portal come down for the actual hard lock, fastbond and chasm are the quick combo, and the kill can be anything from b-ring, welder beats, or sharrum.

I guess I just don't understand your comments. Have you ever played with the portal lock? It doesn't care at all about null rod, and neither does crucible or fastbond.

The deck is far from perfect, just look at the potential aggro match-up. I'm hopeing balance will help that out a little, but as of right now its not that easy to find quickly. This may imply the need for the black tutors.

Another possible idea would be adding slaver and a single artifact land ala the old meandeck goth slaver. 4 mana + an active welder = infinate turns. Still, there is something to be said about the simplicity of the portal lock which requires no extra mana.

[Blue Lotus]

I believe the idea for the deck can't work consistently.  Sylvan library just seems like jank.

I think a stax approach would be better suited for crop rotation + strip mine.  Null rod is hot right now, and shop (especially without manaburn) is a great home.  Thats my point.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I believe the idea for the deck can't work consistently.  Sylvan library just seems like jank.

I think a stax approach would be better suited for crop rotation + strip mine.  Null rod is hot right now, and shop (especially without manaburn) is a great home.  Thats my point.

I really have to agree with this.  I just don't see Sylvan Library as a viable choice.  After refining my list, this is now what I am testing:

Maindeck:

Artifacts (25)
1 Black Lotus
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere Of Resistance
1 Trinisphere

Spells (12)
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Crop Rotation
1 Swords To Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Creatures (5)
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan
2 Goblin Welder

Lands (18)
4 City Of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
2 City of Traitors
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vail

I'm including more colors and a bit more versatility.  I'm not sure 8 multicolor lands will be enough.  I have Welder in just to get rid of cards like Mana Crypt and Mana Vault as well as getting back any artifact that gets countered.  I'm not playing a full compliment of Wastelands.  I think they're redundant.  I still think 3 Crucibles is the right number especially with all the tutors in this deck.  I'm hopeful that this list get some results.

Peace,

-Troy

[vroman]

It has some interesting plays as having an untapped swamp and an untapped welder makes it really hard for someone to play around (ie getting chalice and countering moxen)

this doesnt work. if chalice isnt already in play when the mox is put on the stack, then chalice wont trigger.
isnt gamble just better than entomb?

[Blue Lotus]

I don't really like gamble.  That being said, I don't really like entomb either.  It is cute, but that is about it.  In the right situation it can be a blowout, but it can also be a dead card.  I'm still playing around with it though.

Edit:

Cool list Troy, some questions -

Is it hard to play your non-artifact cards with 9 sphere and 4 shop/tabernacle?  No Null Rod must help, but I still get annoyed when my own deck locks me out. 

Also, I have cut Chalice as well (but am still running Null Rod).  With Null Rod, setting chalice to zero is redundant, you don't want to set it to one with 4 crop/4 welder and you definitely don't want to set it to two to lock out null rod/spheres. 

I'm not sure if you are running enough lands.  18 is a little low to reliably cast crop rotation.  I am running 21, cutting some artifact mana.  This obviously works better with 4 Null Rod main.

My current list:

1 Duplicant
4 Welder
1 Inkwell

4 Crop rotation

3 Crucible
4 Null rod
3 Smokestack
4 Sphere
4 Thorn
1 Trinisphere
4 Uba

1 Lotus
4 Mox
1 M.crypt
2 Barb Ring
4 Bazaar
2 Forest
4 Shop
1 Strip
4 Taiga
1 Academy
3 Wasteland

Obviously this is an Uba stax route.  I like drawing cards.  Crop gets Bazaar + Uba or Welder active very reliably and is never dead as it can get a shop, or a strip, or an academy...

I find you want to hit your land drops, especially if you go shop/sphere turn one and especially shop+mox -> sphere+rod, which happens quite often.  Honestly I'm not sure if this is better than mono red b/c getting colored mana active is a problem, especially for activating ring (essentially RR).  I do find having access to Bazaar early had gotten some explosive starts. 

The list is really tight now.  I might cut the smokestack for +1 crucible +1 mox and another robot.  Needs some work.

[LennonMarx]

Heya,

I believe the idea for the deck can't work consistently.  Sylvan library just seems like jank.

I think a stax approach would be better suited for crop rotation + strip mine.  Null rod is hot right now, and shop (especially without manaburn) is a great home.  Thats my point.

I really have to agree with this.  I just don't see Sylvan Library as a viable choice.  After refining my list, this is now what I am testing:

Maindeck:

Artifacts (25)
1 Black Lotus
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere Of Resistance
1 Trinisphere

Spells (12)
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Crop Rotation
1 Swords To Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Creatures (5)
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan
2 Goblin Welder

Lands (18)
4 City Of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
2 City of Traitors
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vail

I'm including more colors and a bit more versatility.  I'm not sure 8 multicolor lands will be enough.  I have Welder in just to get rid of cards like Mana Crypt and Mana Vault as well as getting back any artifact that gets countered.  I'm not playing a full compliment of Wastelands.  I think they're redundant.  I still think 3 Crucibles is the right number especially with all the tutors in this deck.  I'm hopeful that this list get some results.

Peace,

-Troy

Abandoning the Uba Stax shell here seems reasonable, though a few (non)inclusions seems odd. Why City of Traitors over Ancient Tomb. Tomb has the added bonus of not being total garbage if you don't have crucible out, and with only 2, I can't see the damage piling up being an issue, though I haven't tested it yet so I'm not sure. Lotus Petal over Mana Vault looks wrong as well. Also, why Mystical Tutor over Imperial Seal or the 3rd Welder. 2 welders looks kind of low either way, though the Seal would give you another way to tutor for one if you really needed it. Finally, a single Gorilla Shaman seems strong here as well, as another way to attack artifact mana. The list looks though, and I plan to test it some.

~Lennon

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Well, might as well toss another list in there. The main plan is to drop, like others do, crucible-strip.
Fastbond then adds infinity to the mix, with horizon canopy. (Well, you can still draw 2 per turn fithout fastbond.) Nomad staium nets infinite life, allowing you to draw your deck.
The kill can be creatures or some tricks.

1 Trinisphere
4 thorn of amethist
4 sphere of resistance
4 crucible of worlds
4 juggernaut
4 Tarmogoyf
4 crop rotation
4 enlightened tutor
1 fastbond
1 razormane masticore

1 strip mine
3 wasteland
4 Mishra's workshop
3 ancient tomb
4 savannah
4 horizon canopy
1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
2 elvish spirit guide
1 nomad stadium

1 Razormane masticore
2 duplicant
4 leyline of the void
4 tormod's crypt
3 jester's cap
1 ?