New to Vintage, Help with MUD

[Wraith]

Hi,
I am completely new to Vintage, I only ever played standard and some extended PTQs and am actually making a long overdue return to the game. I haven't picked  up the lands so to speak since CoK so I am still getting back into the swing.
Anyway, I am hoping to play a few vintage events this summer and despite having sold most of my cards a while back am hoping to play MUD. Here is the deck I have put together:

MUDdy Waters
Prison bits...20
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds

Men...11

4 Metalworker
3 Triskelion
2 Arcbound Ravager
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Sundering Titan

Tools...5

2 Staff of Domination
3 Sword of Fire and Ice

Mana...25

1 Black Lotus*
5 Moxen*
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Strip mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Wasteland
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

-61 cards

Side board...15

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Jester’s Cap
2 Powder Keg
3 Duplicant
???

Was hoping for some help, mainly with the following;
61 cards feels icky...was running 3rd Crucible and a 4th ancient tomb and no swords but SOFI cant be ignored
Sideboard...pithing needles,eon hub? possibly another cap.
Wondered if anyone had had success with Orb of dreams or if (even though this may be retarded) helm of obedience had been tested (its late here and leyline+helm=you have no library is very tempting )

Thank you, any help would be great

[Ufactor]

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA HOW TO BUILD THIS DECK, so my questions are going to be just as n00bish as anyone else's.

1a) Can this deck benefit from a list of all "four of's", plus a dozen or so restricted cards?

1b) Would this deck benefit from the inclusion of Street Wraith or Serum Powder?

2a) How bad does this deck die to Null Rod?

2b) It seems that the win condition is schizophrenically split between beat sticks and combo pieces.  Is it possible/advantageous to eliminate one of these?

2c) If the combo win is indispensable, then which combo is best?  Vault/Key? Metalworker/Staff?  Paint/Grindstone?

EDIT: 3) Does Memory Jar belong here?

[Lurker101]

You may want to play a couple Master Transmuters (if you did I would also make room for 1 Thousand Year Elixer) bouncing an almost dead tangle wire for a sundering titan and then replaying Tangle wire is really powerful. Transmuter could also be good at "reloading" Trikes as well. Mindlock Orb is a good sideboard card in workshop decks that is woefully underplayed. Also, with the number of null rods running around in general I would add some sort of artifact destruction or removal, at the very least in the sideboard but maindeck artifact removal is also an option depending on how many null rods you expect to see. You could also add Jester's Mask, which is an underplayed lock piece. It's a little slow but actually pretty powerful/devastating if used successfully. I would cut at least 1 sword of fire and ice and also I would cut the ravagers. Have you thought about running crop rotations to get an early strip lock/academy? Also I would add Vault + Key as your kill condition. Lastly Razormane Masticore is a pretty good SB card against Fish.

Pre-edit: I might also cut the city of traitors and maybe even the tombs and factories for a few five color lands like Gemstone Mine and City of Brass but only if you decide to run crop rotations (which I highly recommend) or the blue artifacts like transmuter and mindlock orb. Your sideboard is also high on duplicants I would cut at least 1 maybe 2 if you aren't expecting to see much oath of the non-progenitus variety. You could probably cut 2 metalworkers for 2 transmuters. Tinker + Inkwell Leviathan could also work in your sideboard. Eon Hub isn't a very good card so I wouldn't play it in the board but Pithing needles are a pretty good idea. Ingot Chewer is a great answer to null rod and also could be considered in the board if you decide to go with the city of brass/gemstone mine route.

[Ufactor]

You may want to play a couple Master Transmuters (if you did I would also make room for 1 Thousand Year Elixer) bouncing an almost dead tangle wire for a sundering titan and then replaying Tangle wire is really powerful. Transmuter could also be good at "reloading" Trikes as well. Mindlock Orb is a good sideboard card in workshop decks that is woefully underplayed. Also, with the number of null rods running around in general I would add some sort of artifact destruction or removal, at the very least in the sideboard but maindeck artifact removal is also an option depending on how many null rods you expect to see. You could also add Jester's Mask, which is an underplayed lock piece. It's a little slow but actually pretty powerful/devastating if used successfully. I would cut at least 1 sword of fire and ice and also I would cut the ravagers. Have you thought about running crop rotations to get an early strip lock/academy? Also I would add Vault + Key as your kill condition. Lastly Razormane Masticore is a pretty good SB card against Fish.

Pre-edit: I might also cut the city of traitors and maybe even the tombs and factories for a few five color lands like Gemstone Mine and City of Brass but only if you decide to run crop rotations (which I highly recommend) or the blue artifacts like transmuter and mindlock orb. Your sideboard is also high on duplicants I would cut at least 1 maybe 2 if you aren't expecting to see much oath of the non-progenitus variety. You could probably cut 2 metalworkers for 2 transmuters. Tinker + Inkwell Leviathan could also work in your sideboard. Eon Hub isn't a very good card so I wouldn't play it in the board but Pithing needles are a pretty good idea. Ingot Chewer is a great answer to null rod and also could be considered in the board if you decide to go with the city of brass/gemstone mine route.

You're doing it wrong. The title of this post clearly says "Help with MUD".  Giving someone information on how to build 5-color Stax or blue/x workshop-homebrew is neither "Help", nor "MUD".  The guy also says that he is new to Vintage, so rattling off a bunch of uninformed whims is only going to disillusion someone into thinking that TMD is not the place to get reliable strategy (unless your on a team, it is the only such place that exists).

Please don't tell some confused schmoe to gut their entire deck to make it look just like yours, unless you genuinely know what you're talking about.

[LotusHead]

Your deck looks fine.

I've had much success with Leyline/Helm, but I have 5c mana base (with Gilded Lotus and everything).

For those last 4 SB slots I'd suggest Juggernaut as extra beats vs fish that is also Null Rod proof.

Otherwise, Platinum Angels screw some decks over pretty hard.

[Wraith]

thanks for your suggestions, will probably convert to a 5c base soon but didnt want to get too brainy for my first few games back and MUD still seems to be performing ok.
On another note, if I am boarding leylines do you think it would be wise to drop a city of traitors for a phyrexian tower? as atm i need lotus to cast if i dont have it in my opening hand. or do you think it would be best to drop them from the board altogether?


cheers again

[maatn]

On another note, if I am boarding leylines do you think it would be wise to drop a city of traitors for a phyrexian tower? as atm i need lotus to cast if i dont have it in my opening hand. or do you think it would be best to drop them from the board altogether?

Phyrexian Tower seems a bit conditional to me. Why don't you try Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead?
MD-ing Urborg makes it easier to go on the Obeyline route as well.

[elementum]

if you want to play MUD, you should decide to play either 4 juggernauts + 3 swords or 4 smokestack + 3 crucible of worlds. I would never play swords, stack and crucible in one pile.
furthermore you shouldn't play less than 3 thorns; in an aggro version (4 Juggs + 3 SoF/I) you should always run 4 copies of them.

the next point is the question of "staff of domination/ no staff of domination"? the thing is, that your deck should be as immune as possible to Null Rod. Staff is simply unresistant and therefore a bad wincondition.

now your mana base: the 4th ancient tomb and the mana vault is missing. the only decision in a MUD mana base should be a) 3 waste/3 factory oder b) 4 waste/2 factory. the rest of your mana base contains exactly 7 SoLoMoxen, 1 mana vault, 1 crypt, 4 shops, 4 tombs, 2 cities, 1 strip mine and 1 academy.

my last point depending to your mainboard is the sundering titan: he has been a bomb some years ago, but today i would always prefer the 2nd Karn, Silver Golem.


now your sideboard:
why do you want to run Leylines? you've got tormod's crypt AND relic of progenitus, which are MUCH better than leyline in this deck. I'm playing a mix of 3 relic/2 crypt... but the "right" mixture is more a question of belief than anything else...

duplicants gone bad after the restriction of thrist for knowledge (darksteel colosses sees less and less play). instead of 3 duplicants i would play 3 razormane masticore.

the last 3 slots (after replacinf 4 leylines with 5 crypts/relics) i would fill up with 3 pithing needle.

[Sean Ryan]

elementum's last post is a good assesment. 

You generaly want to either focus on the Stax/Crucible lock or the aggro plan.  Aggro Mud has put up better results, winning the last BOM with over 400 people.  Another version with Juggs recentlly won an event in the northeast. 

What's your metagame?

I like it becasue you don't have to completley lock your opponent to win, just disrupt them with your balls then beat.  Speaking  of balls, run the full 9.  One of the streanghts of this deck is it's consistent explosive starts that demand an answer or the opponent just loses.  Worker and allows you to play under your own balls as well.   

Without smokestack I wouldn't even run crucible.  Staff does leave you more vulnerable to null rod and is often "win more."  I have actually used them as sideboard tech against Oath (a bad matchip).

The question i have is whether to run Ravagers or Jugernauts.  The ravager makes for a quick combo kill with trike, but Juggs are more reliable and laugh at null rod.

In the board I like Caps, Needles, Razormae Masticores, Crypts/Relics
     

[Wraith]

i think you have raised some good points here and thank you, im gonna refix the mana base, drop a few bits and pieces, will reassess;

cheers again,