[Free Article] 5c Stax in Action

[Twaun007]

* Should the lists include cards like Barbarian Ring and/or Cabal Pit?

Yes. Uncounterable reusable removal is a necessity with creatures infesting the format. Barbarian Ring also counts as a win condition.

* What about Vamp/Imperial Seal?

If you're running Chalice of the Void I would omit these. If you're not running Chalice of the Void I would play with as many tutors as possible.

* Sundering Titan?  Is it's deadweight value in opening hand outweighed by its late game and tinker target value?

Imagine if your hand was, Goblin Welder, Mox Ruby, Trinisphere, Mishra's Workshop, Gemstone Mine, Sundering Titan, and Bazaar of Baghdad.

* How many Crucibles?  3 or 4?

Three is the average I believe. I'd run 4 if I had 4 Bazaars though.  

[Smmenen]

* Sundering Titan?  Is it's deadweight value in opening hand outweighed by its late game and tinker target value?

Imagine if your hand was, Goblin Welder, Mox Ruby, Trinisphere, Mishra's Workshop, Gemstone Mine, Sundering Titan, and Bazaar of Baghdad.

What if you don't run Bazaar?   

[Smmenen]

After having run this deck at the ICBM Open, I'm inclined to agree with you, philosophically and in practice.   The advantage, if not the allure, of 5c build is this:

1) You get to run the best combination/selection of lock parts in all five colors, including In The Eye of Chaos, Choke, Shamans, Tinker, Crap Rotation, and Balance.   Black gives you tutoring power to find the most powerful parts, particularly Balance and Strip Mine.

2) Every Mox is freaking golden.  When you draw a Mox in 5c Stax, it doesn't matter which color it is, it's great.  Black? Great.  Red? Awesome.  Green?  Good.  Blue?  Amazing.  White?  Sweet.   

3) Both 1&2 mean that the best lock part in Vintage right now, Null Rod, is terrible in 5c Stax.   5c Stax plays an inordinate number of 3c non artifact spells, or 2c non artifact spells under Sphere, which means it needs non-Workshop 2X.   Null Rod is too harmful to the deck to run. 

Watching the RB TwuanStax at the ICBM open really impressed me with its fluidity, consistency, and power.   

I think Bazaar is questionable in 5c Stax.    Test games and put Bazaar in the opening hand.   Bazaar can't dig you out of a game that you otherwise can't win.  It's not keepable as an only land.  And it's a win more whenever its good.   

But Bazaar is unreal in the mono colored or R/x versions of the deck. 

[Smmenen]

Well, I think there was a big metagame shift.   Vroman's deck was really insane in 2005, but it stopped being the best for a while, for a number of reasons.   The Stax decks that can run Null Rods are off the hook right now. 

[Twaun007]

* Sundering Titan?  Is it's deadweight value in opening hand outweighed by its late game and tinker target value?

Imagine if your hand was, Goblin Welder, Mox Ruby, Trinisphere, Mishra's Workshop, Gemstone Mine, Sundering Titan, and Bazaar of Baghdad.

What if you don't run Bazaar?  

Then your list probably isn’t optimal.

After having run this deck at the ICBM Open, I'm inclined to agree with you, philosophically and in practice.   The advantage, if not the allure, of 5c build is this:

1) You get to run the best combination/selection of lock parts in all five colors, including In The Eye of Chaos, Choke, Shamans, Tinker, Crap Rotation, and Balance.   Black gives you tutoring power to find the most powerful parts, particularly Balance and Strip Mine.

2) Every Mox is freaking golden.  When you draw a Mox in 5c Stax, it doesn't matter which color it is, it's great.  Black? Great.  Red? Awesome.  Green?  Good.  Blue?  Amazing.  White?  Sweet.    

3) Both 1&2 mean that the best lock part in Vintage right now, Null Rod, is terrible in 5c Stax.   5c Stax plays an inordinate number of 3c non artifact spells, or 2c non artifact spells under Sphere, which means it needs non-Workshop 2X.   Null Rod is too harmful to the deck to run.  

Watching the RB TwuanStax at the ICBM open really impressed me with its fluidity, consistency, and power.    

I think Bazaar is questionable in 5c Stax.    Test games and put Bazaar in the opening hand.   Bazaar can't dig you out of a game that you otherwise can't win.  It's not keepable as an only land.  And it's a win more whenever its good.  

But Bazaar is unreal in the mono colored or R/x versions of the deck.  

I agree with everything you stated except these.

I think Bazaar is questionable in 5c Stax.

If Bazaar is so questionable why did Roland Chang use it? Why does Nick Detwiler still use one? Even Nam Q. Tran swears by Bazaar of Baghdad. There success with it has to clearly outweigh the negatives.  

Test games and put Bazaar in the opening hand.

You can say the same thing about games with Darksteel Colossus or Inkwell Leviathan in your opening hand.  

Bazaar can't dig you out of a game that you otherwise can't win

Ask Jimmy McCarthy about one of my side event finals matches vs. Dreadstill from the Traviscon where he gave out Workshops. Seriously….. ask him.

it's a win more whenever its good.

This one baffles me. Is Library of Alexandria on the draw win more if you win?

Well, I think there was a big metagame shift.   Vroman's deck was really insane in 2005, but it stopped being the best for a while, for a number of reasons.

What do you think some of the reasons were and what should future Stax players look out for so their decks don’t meet the fate of Ubastax.

[swawagon]

Duplicant and Triskelion are amazing against the huge number of Dark Confidants and or Tarmgoyfs in the meta. If you can get to 6 mana or Weld them in fast enough, those robots are about as optimal as they have ever been.