[Free Article] So Many Insane Plays --The Battle for the Best Deck in History

[Smmenen]

It's an off week while we waited for the results of the Vintage Championship.   Therefore, I took the opportunity to write an article that many of you have been clamoring for for years.   Enjoy!

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/17889_So_Many_Insane_Plays_The_Battle_for_the_Best_Deck_in_Vintage_History.html

[zeus-online]

So....how did the decks do?

This article is close to being enough of a reason to buy premium, for me, btw. (Thought you'd like to know)

[Akuma]

GAT and Long were the best, with GAT only losing to Long and Long only losing to Flash. - I hope this is not violating any "premium" rule (if it is, let me know and I will remove it).

It was a cool article, and it would be awesome if the Vintage field was comprised of most of these decks instead of what we have now. Everything but Long with 4 LED would be a fine.

It is a shame that Vintage decks no longer have any IDENTITY. When watching the stream of the champs games, the announcers were always mystified by what the hell to call all of the blue decks. They would be like "I don't know what this is, I guess it's Tezz, let me read the list...(reads half the restricted list + 4 Force of Will)". Really sad. Stax was at least identifiable.

No Gifts deck, no Gush deck, no Oath deck, no Flash deck, just "1 Ancestral Recall, 1 Brainstorm, 1 Time Vault, 1 Voltaic Key, blah..."

[zeus-online]

Well, asking for the results is just normal curiosity....I am a huge fan of the old article and found reading it to be enjoyable enough that i've read it atleast 5 times.

Reading how the matches went etc. is what makes this article interesting. Atleast thats how i feel.

[Shpongle]

Great read!

Those oldschool decks is a blast to play, such a shame it's not possible to play them in todays meta.

Slightly off-topic, but stephen, what are those purple sleeves? Also, do you reccomend them?

[meadbert]

I think I have a new favorite article.  This was an awesome read.  Thanks!

[Smmenen]

Great read!

Those oldschool decks is a blast to play, such a shame it's not possible to play them in todays meta.

Slightly off-topic, but stephen, what are those purple sleeves? Also, do you reccomend them?

I only use purple dragon shields.  I swear by them.

[2nd_lawl]

dragon shields

I vomited a little in my mouth.

[zeus-online]

Really? i would have expected KMC.

I've found that dragonshields vary in length. And thus i don't use them.

[Chill79]

Really? i would have expected KMC.

I've found that dragonshields vary in length. And thus i don't use them.

Opening pack of Dragonshields is like opening pack of booster,hope to get good ones

[Smmenen]

For being a HIGHLY requested article idea, this hasn't really prompted that much discussion!

A few tidbits:

* I had to relearn how to play Long.dec.  It was by far the most difficult deck on the gauntlet.  It took me about a month of testing off and on to become sufficiently proficient with it that it was a pliable weapon.   Things I had to relearn:

    * Knowing which color of mana to float with LEDs when playing a Draw7 or something like that.
    * Knowing when to break Chromatic Spheres, and for which color of mana
    * Knowing when to mulligan
    * Relearning how to use Demonic Consultation aggressively, since this deck can win without a library
    * Relatedly, relearning how important Consult is to this dec, how to use it effectively.
    * Relearning how to beat Drain decks, including knowing when to go all in and when not to

* My favorite deck on the gauntlet was Meandeck Gifts, since it was the one deck I designed from scratch, instead of just tuning.   that deck was amazing!   

* Every deck on the guantlet had weaknesses:

    * Tezzeret was surprisingly powerful, but it has problems against combo decks, which are just faster. 

    *Flash lost to Red Elemental Blast.dec (MDG post board) and Grow's 8 Duresses + Leylines.   Flash could get unstoppable hands, but folded to more efficient cards and Leyline.

    * GroAtog was great in its metagame, but it was never a perfectly fluid deck.   It is extremely weak, in the maindeck, to Sphere effects.   that's why I had 3 Islands in the sideboard.   Dryad would sometimes come down after you've spent all your resources and your opponent could jsut topdeck and win.   8 Duresses were necessary in the Flash, Gush Metagame, but against the guantlet, some number of Drains may have been better.   

   * Meandeck Gifts was amazing, but it would sometimes get hands that had junk like: DSC, Recoup, or Tendrils (or Burning Wish if it ran them).   It wasn't a perfect deck either.   

   * TriniStax.   The TriniStax list I ran, the one that Kevin Cron used to win the SCG, was very metagamed.   It often drew dead for turns on end, has a fragile and awkward mana base, and is designed to win the long game, not ideal in this guantlet.

   * Long.dec.   Long's mana base is odd, and if it is on the draw against Stax, it likely won't win.   It has a slightly higher mulligan rate than bluer decks.   It's also incredibly difficult to pilot.

   * BBS: It's just outmoded.   Facts are great in the deck, but Back to Basics didn't do enough against decks with Fetchlands, Morphlings take forever to win, and the deck sits dead in too may situations. 

[Troy_Costisick]

Steve,

Would you ever consider playing these decks with a different suite of cards that were still legal at the time of the Restrictions?  Like you said, the Trinistax deck was very metagamed.  Would a better test of that archetype's capabilities have been measured if it had a more conventional or flexible build?

Peace,

-Troy

[vroman]

I had just started playing vintage shortly before the restriction of trinisphere while I was still noob.
if I could go back and play 4xtrisphere, I would surely include 4xserum powder, as that card was not on the radar at all yet, and the raw power of trisphere was if anything underappreciated even while ppl were clamoring for itrs restriction.

[Doomsday]

Long lost to Flash?  Was Flash on the play games 1 and 3?

[The Atog Lord]

I hope this is not violating any "premium" rule (if it is, let me know and I will remove it).

There aren't any TMD-based rules about what can and cannot be shared from Premium articles. Please do not copy and paste the entire article. But as for what can and cannot be discussed here, there are no site rules. An author is free to request that you not share parts of the article (like decklists), but that is a request only and does not carry the force of the site rules.

[Smmenen]

I had just started playing vintage shortly before the restriction of trinisphere while I was still noob.
if I could go back and play 4xtrisphere, I would surely include 4xserum powder, as that card was not on the radar at all yet, and the raw power of trisphere was if anything underappreciated even while ppl were clamoring for itrs restriction.

It's interesting though, the problem with the Trinisphere decks isn't inconsistency at getting Trinisphere down.  The problem is the dead draws that often follow it.   This deck might draw 3 Trinispheres, Crucibles, and Chains but give the opponent enough time to draw out of it and win.   What would be really interesting is if Trinisphere decks also ran Null Rod! 

[zeus-online]

Haven't read the article as i don't have premium currently...But...

BBS's strategy is just not effective anymore...The basic idea was to slam Back to basics down at some point to lock the opponent out...Then came fetches and thus that tactic isn't very effective against most decks (I'm guessing that it beat the stax deck though?)...The other tactic BBS had going for it was aggro-morphling...That strategy is probably even worse now...Turn 3 morphling is not fast or even something modern decks would worry about.

The decks i expected to do best was: GAT and MDG.

GAT should do well, especially in a meta like this with almost only combo and drains....8 Duress's, 4 scrolls and 4 FoW should do very well against those decks.

In hindsight MDG would probably almost be worse then GAT as it's just not as disruptive...And the stronger mana base and better shop match-up would not matter much when there's only 1 shop deck and the rest is combo and control. Gifts may be a bit faster then GAT, but i'd wager that against these decks disruption is better then speed. (Although long seems to disprove this, i think it did well because the deck is very good at playing against disruption)

The problem with trinistax is probably that ALOT of shop tech and strategy came AFTER trinisphere got the axe, and thus the list is probably outmoded.

[meadbert]

I had just started playing vintage shortly before the restriction of trinisphere while I was still noob.
if I could go back and play 4xtrisphere, I would surely include 4xserum powder, as that card was not on the radar at all yet, and the raw power of trisphere was if anything underappreciated even while ppl were clamoring for itrs restriction.

It's interesting though, the problem with the Trinisphere decks isn't inconsistency at getting Trinisphere down.  The problem is the dead draws that often follow it.   This deck might draw 3 Trinispheres, Crucibles, and Chains but give the opponent enough time to draw out of it and win.   What would be really interesting is if Trinisphere decks also ran Null Rod! 

This is why Uba Stax is actually the best solution.  Bazaar ensures that you are able to follow Trinisphere up with more relevant threats.

Something like this would be very powerful:
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Serum Powder
1 Sol Ring
4 Smokestack
4 Uba Mask
4 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice Of The Void
2 Karn,Silver Golem
4 Goblin Welder

[Beralt]

I guess I would have liked to have seen an Ichorid deck in the bunch, but nothing has really been restricted yet.  Oath might have been an option too, using 4 Brainstorms but Oath has slowly declined over time.  BBS felt really outmoded - Morphling and Back to Basics seem just too slow and not disruptive enough.

[Greeg]

The whole article made me miss some of the older decks.

I am a huge fan of Long, but was on a hiatus from Magic when it was first introduced. When I came back, LED and Wish were restricted, so I never had the opportunity to enjoy it.

[vroman]

thats what I was implying. taking 2005 ubastax shell and add serum powder and 3 more trinisphere. Id keep tangle in just bc its so good w trisphere. chalice actually becomes most redundant, bc you assume on play you have trisphere, and on draw moxen already cast.
so what meadbert posted -4chalice +4tangle, is my vote for best deck ever.

[v4ino]

To say the 3sphere deck was "meta'd" is being very polite

@Steve
There was no good MUD builds from Europe that could be found with 4 Trinispere?

It was interesting to see Tez do well, I have always though of it as a decent deck in a limp meta (big fish small pond if you will) - it sounded like it drew well  in it's matches and probably wouldn't be able to put up the same amount of wins again though. The fact that it beat the 3spere deck is a testament to how "wrong" the shop deck's build was.

I would of liked to see who piloted each deck for the matches (that would of been a value add to the article).

@Vroman
I would probably cut the 2 factories for 2 ancient tombs as well (since it is a fantasy deck).

[vassago]

Great read!

Those oldschool decks is a blast to play, such a shame it's not possible to play them in todays meta.

Slightly off-topic, but stephen, what are those purple sleeves? Also, do you reccomend them?

I only use purple dragon shields.  I swear by them.

Why do you have to steal my thoughts? Get out of my head!  Seriously though, these are the best sleeves you could ever get and if it weren't for the distributores running out so frequently in our area, I would never ever deviate from these.

[pierce]

steve, would you conclude that there is a correlation between converted mana cost for the restricted cards and their potency? I see long doing the best, followed by flash, and the 4 FoF deck doing the worst.

[Smmenen]

steve, would you conclude that there is a correlation between converted mana cost for the restricted cards and their potency? I see long doing the best, followed by flash, and the 4 FoF deck doing the worst.

And GAT decks, since Gush costs 0? 

[scipio]

Wow - just read this article as it became a freebie on StarCity.  Fantastic stuff!

I was impressed by the competitiveness of the decks.  Many of the matches went to 3 games, and were very close (including Tezz, surprisingly).  It would have been interesting to see the Gush-Bond engine with Tyrant-Oath, as that deck was on the rise prior to the swath of blue restrictions.  An optimized version of the Trinisphere deck would likely be competitive as well.  I also wonder how the current aggro-control decks would do against the field (Gaddock does shut off Gush, after all).

Have you been able to use these results as an argument for significant unrestrictions?  It would seem Flash, Gush, and Burning Wish could all be unleashed to expand potential playable decks. 

Also, I remember Long being incredibly difficult to play, even without an opponent packing countermagic.  If that deck were legal today (including unrestricted LED), do you think it would dominate tourney's, or would a large proportion of pilots do what I always did with it - fizzle out midstream?  Are chalice, null rod, and controlling creatures enough to battle Long in today's metagame?

Thanks for running this tourney.  Who were the pilots for the various decks?

[meadbert]

I am considering doing something similar to this (and perhaps just adding on to it) with a few more decks including some decks that never were such as 4 Trinisphere + 4 Serum Powder Uba Stax.  I would definitely run  Tyrant Oath.  I would also be inclined to run a Gush based Painter deck and possibly Control Slaver.  Although Slaver is not thought of as broken, it did compete with many of the decks that were allegedly broken and with Brainstorm and Thirst restricted it certainly ran what we now think of as restricted bombs.

For those of you who are Control Slaver experts, could Slaver compete in Steve's gauntlet and what list would you recommend?

As far as Uba Stax goes:  I know that Vroman suggested Tangle Wire instead of Chalice.  I had another idea.  What about Null Brooch?  It has some serious synergy with Trinisphere and Uba Mask.  Ironically it would have been terrible in the metagame it would have existed in since Shop Aggro was dominant, but in the "best decks of all time" meta it might be solid.  It is decent for dealing with Oath, Key/Vault, Painter and Yawg Will.

Decks that I would add:
Serum Powder TrUba Stax
Shop Aggro (with 4 Trinisphere)
Slaver
Tyrant Oath
Painter (with Gush, any suggestions?)
Fatestitcher Dredge
Dredge pre Dredge errata (Where Dredging DSC or Progenitus = get another Dredge)

For best decks that never were they still would have to have been legal at one point so no inserting Leyline of the Void into a deck with 4 Trinsphere etc.

[Smmenen]

Pre Dredge errata?


Dredge has received errata?   

[meadbert]

Dredge has received errata?   

Originally Dredge basically said that you put the top n card of your library into your graveyard.  If you do not then draw a card.
What this meant is that if you Dredge a DSC then it did not go to your yard and therefore you actually get to turn a draw into a Dredge + a draw.
To deal with this Dredge was errated, but the flavor text on many of the cards still has the old wording.

Nobody in type1 noticed the potential brokenness of the rules thus this would have been potentially one of the best decks that could have been but never was.

[Smmenen]

Dredge has received errata?   

Originally Dredge basically said that you put the top n card of your library into your graveyard.  If you do not then draw a card.
What this meant is that if you Dredge a DSC then it did not go to your yard and therefore you actually get to turn a draw into a Dredge + a draw.
To deal with this Dredge was errated, but the flavor text on many of the cards still has the old wording.

Nobody in type1 noticed the potential brokenness of the rules thus this would have been potentially one of the best decks that could have been but never was.

When did this errata occur?   Was progenitus legal at the time?   

How many DSCs would Dredge pilots then run?  4?