[New Card Discussion] Spell Pierce

[the_lord_shaper]

   U
 instant     Common

Counter target noncreature
spell unless its controller pays 2.
 
  Seems like fish got a new counterspell. Either way this card seems pretty good to me.

[tito del monte]

I like it. Not sure it's quite an auto-include, but i think it's worthy of comparison to both Negate and Spell Snare. Good to see a nice common being spoiled too!

[Troy_Costisick]

The thing is about spending to meet the requirements of a counterspell is that an opponent can just pay the with any mana rather than use to cast a Drain.  It gives the opponent an easier decision to make.  This is why I like Mana Leak (obviously not as a one mana counterspell, but in a more general sense).  My opponent must spend or use up his Drain.  It forces a much tougher choice.  As far as 1 mana counterspells go, it's okay, but I'm skeptical of any impact.

Peace,

-Troy

[AmbivalentDuck]

Also worth noting, we've had basically this effect for years in Divert.

[Guli]

Spell Pierce caught my attention as well. Can be a very strong card in a deck that goes for mana denial. Look at Daze, even that catches people off guard. But that is mainly because it is free.

These kind of counters are known for their early game strength, but the power level diminishes as the game goes on unless you can keep up the pressure. Maybe use with Null Rod/Stifle?

[DubDub]

Also worth noting, we've had basically this effect for years in Divert.

That's only really true if there's an Ancestral or counterspell on the stack.  This new spell is better than Divert against Duress (though not Thoughtseize) and artifact mana, plus the many restricted cards people tap out for; T1 Scroll or Demonic, Night's Whisper, etc.

[ilpeggiore]

its strong.

the most similar thing to a cc1 counterspell.

spell snare could be useless vs too much card.

daze cost a land drop (and 1 is not so much to pay)

divert... c'mon   fow is stronger than misdy.

the most important thing is.....  one blue mana and i can (quite always) survive to every turn 1 or 2 killer combo. this card affects bargain-necro-tinker-vault-oath-ancestrall-will-duress-fow-drain-non creatures artifact.

[Stormanimagus]

its strong.

the most similar thing to a cc1 counterspell.

spell snare could be useless vs too much card.

daze cost a land drop (and 1 is not so much to pay)

divert... c'mon   fow is stronger than misdy.

the most important thing is.....  one blue mana and i can (quite always) survive to every turn 1 or 2 killer combo. this card affects bargain-necro-tinker-vault-oath-ancestrall-will-duress-fow-drain-non creatures artifact.

I could see this possibly taking over the Stifle Slot in Selkie-Strike. Stifle has been very underwhelming and is a very easy card to play around. This card seems far less easy to play around. There's a big difference between 1 and 2 extra mana, when off-colored moxen are run in many decks. This card forces far more fair plays.

Sure, living the dream, and Stifling a fetch and then wasting a land of your opponent's is awesome, but that is not a situation good pilots get themselves into, and you must expect to play good pilots. I'll give this a shot in Selkie-Strike in that Stifle slot and get back to you all on how it does.

Peace,

-Storm

[pierce]

the name makes it a clear winner

[Neonico]

IT's an auto include for me in a control deck.
Think i'll play 2 for sure, perhaps 3, maindeck, in Tezzeret.

It counters null rod pretty well against fish, and it's the only thing we need in the matchup.
Its really good against any lock piece of shop decks.
It's golden in mirror match for both gaining tempo (an it's really a huge tempo gain) when opponnent have to play around it, it will often be huge in counterwars (meaning your opponent is protecting your bombs, so using your mana) and you often end up using alot of mana to tutor/Draw during the early turns, making it golden. It's also a really efficient duress protection.

It's bad against creatures, okay, but you have other cards to deal with creatures so it's okay (darkblast, Fire/Ice, Vendilion Clique). And all other options i can consider instead of this are also bad against creatures (Duress, misdirection)

and to compare it with daze or force spike : 2 mana instead of one makes all the difference, because we are playing a fast, goldfish format.  It's really easier to play around a pay 1 mana counterspell, allmost impossible against a +2 mana counterspell.

[vroman]

calling it: best U counterspell yet
including stifle

[BruiZar]

You should see this as a stifle on fetch or a wasteland on a nonbasic. This card is first and foremost a land destruction, or better put, mana denial card. This is why I like it in multiples. Because the first one denies mana, the second one has a harder requirement to meet unless your opponent is just skipping his turns to drop lands, in which case you have done exactly what you want.

[Almanomada]

I think it will impact vintage and legacy but nowhere else.  It seems really good to me as most players do EoT turn 1 stuff or try to combo off and oops, they are 2 mana short..  It will definately slow decks down and buy people time.

[JACO]

calling it: best U counterspell yet
including stifle

Spell Snare is better than either of those.

[Thegreatgonzo]

if you just want to counter null rod, then annul is just better.

No comparison with "daze". Daze is "FOW" n°5-8 when you're playing a tempo deck like fish.
otherwise, it's just some kind of force spike. Which means good, agreed; but not that stellar.

my 2 cents, and my humble opinion, I often turn out to be wrong, after all

[jewfro]

The thing is this card is more than a force spike. I'll agree and say its most likely better than spell snare, but not daze, daze costs 0... I think it'll see a ton of play in fish, but still some play in a control deck.

[median]

i can almost see this in a U or U/R shop list. we have master transmuters, mindlock orb, this, and maybe even transmute artifact. thats now enough for force of will. it might work.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Also worth noting, we've had basically this effect for years in Divert.

Man, one time I Diverted this guy's Tinker, and...

Oh, wait.  This card is NOTHING LIKE DIVERT.  In that you can Divert like 6 cards in Vintage.   Seriously, this thing seems playable as all hell.  I would totally rock this if I had room in BUG Fish.

[ilpeggiore]

times ago controll deck used the first turn combo island-brainstorm to tutor a fow.

now they play the island and wait with sp in hand.

[Neonico]

The thing is this card is more than a force spike. I'll agree and say its most likely better than spell snare, but not daze, daze costs 0... I think it'll see a ton of play in fish, but still some play in a control deck.

For me, it's better than Daze by far.
Daze isn't a force of will, as someone mentionned. FoW can counter something turn 1 on the draw, daze can't.
Considering you have to drop a land to play daze and this, this is just strictly better for 2 reasons :
 - doesn't hurt your own tempo
 - 2 more to pay has alot more impact than 1 more to pay, mainly because of moxen. Turn 1 land moxen isn't enough to play a 1 mana cost spell around this when it is to play around daze, and i don't even speak of 2 land + mox to have drain open around daze.
In a format as fast as vintage, where alot of decks try to draw/tutor for their win as fast as possible... It will be the hell to play around this card....

I agree with Vroman there, it's by far the best 1 mana casting cost counterspell aviable actually in vintage.

[zeus-online]

Let's not get carried away....Sure it's good, but there's plenty of creatures around, and plenty of decks which has bad match-ups against said creature decks.

That said, i played with disrupt a while, and was actually amazed at how good it could be.....Not sure if spell pierce is better or worse though.

[jewfro]

Yes it might end up being better than daze too. I completely agree that it is the best 1cc counterspell available in vintage.
When i played disrupt i found it amazing in almost all game 1s, but in game 2 all the good players played around it. Spell pierce is much harder to play around.

[mmcgeach]

Let's not get carried away....Sure it's good, but there's plenty of creatures around, and plenty of decks which has bad match-ups against said creature decks.

if only there was some one-mana counterspell that also hit all those two-casting cost creatures saturating the format...

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

The thing is this card is more than a force spike. I'll agree and say its most likely better than spell snare, but not daze, daze costs 0... I think it'll see a ton of play in fish, but still some play in a control deck.

daze really doesn't see as much play as you think. This card is better than daze because the one extra mana they need to pay keeps this card on line for a few more turns. I can't even begin to count the amount of times I've had all my dazes turned off because my opponant went: land, mox, go, and then curved out half way decent. I'm not sure if its strickly better than spell snare, obviously it depends on what people are playing.

[jaeppel]

I suppose that if white can have force spike nowadays, blue needs to have a better forcespike to maintain its position of superiority.

So this new card is essentially something between spike and mana leak, with a twist of negate.  Interesting how counterspell had to leave the cannon to open up design space in counters, and now they keep filling that design space with counters more playable than counterspell.

I like this card alot, and i will certainly get a set, probably the strongest common spoiled so far.  that along with 20 new fetches means some heavy zendikar drafting is needed.

[nineisnoone]

calling it: best U counterspell yet
including stifle

True.  But it's second to REB in terms of 1 mana counter spells.
Edit: I make the comparison because most of the time, the non-creature spells you want to play are going to be blue.  The biggest bonus this has over REB is that it is blue (for FoW) and that it hits artifacts.

Definitely playable.  I count it as being a better (albeit slower) version of Daze.

[Neonico]

calling it: best U counterspell yet
including stifle

True.  But it's second to REB in terms of 1 mana counter spells.
Edit: I make the comparison because most of the time, the non-creature spells you want to play are going to be blue.  The biggest bonus this has over REB is that it is blue (for FoW) and that it hits artifacts.

Definitely playable.  I count it as being a better (albeit slower) version of Daze.

How can it be SLOWER than daze ?
Guys, Daze isn't a force of will, you need a land drop too

[TheShop]

KronStax used to run 4 copies of Divert in the board (while Changstax ran REB instead),  I wonder if Spell Pierce would not be useful as the new 5-color Stax-Sideboard answer to Rebuild, since Spell Pierce can also hit non-red spells.

[vroman]

The biggest bonus this has over REB is that it is blue (for FoW) and that it hits artifacts.

yawgwill is why REB is marginal

if they printed the selesnya version of guttural response

G/W instant
counter target black spell

that might put hate decks over the edge.

[nineisnoone]

I count it as being a better (albeit slower) version of Daze.

How can it be SLOWER than daze ?
Guys, Daze isn't a force of will, you need a land drop too

Well, I usually use slower and cheaper interchangeably, even if the basic turn is the same.

The biggest bonus this has over REB is that it is blue (for FoW) and that it hits artifacts.

yawgwill is why REB is marginal

if they printed the selesnya version of guttural response

G/W instant
counter target black spell

that might put hate decks over the edge.

Yeah, hitting yawgwill is nice.  I don't know if I'd play that card though.
Black is a frequent splash, but typically not that heavy of one.  Counterspells are good because of utility. As good as Yawgwill is, I don't think I'd ever play Envelop as a counter for it.