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Joblin Velder
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« on: September 23, 2009, 08:16:44 pm » |
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I have been scouring for a general for a few weeks. I really wanted someone who could do duels and multiplayer pretty well. Sedris looks to be my guy; helping me to reuse excellent CIP abilities. Keep in mind this is my first EDH deck and a first draft. Harsh criticism is very much welcome as I have a tendency to go overboard on goofy synergy instead of focusing on effectiveness.
//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//CREATURES (18)
Shriekmaw Ingot Chewer Mulldrifter Trinket Mage Bone Shredder Nekrataal Puppeteer Clique Flametongue Kavu Izzet Chronarch Bogardan Hellkite Duplicant Solem Simulacrum Nezumi Graverobber Draining Whelk Sower of Temptation Coffin Queen Gilded Drake Dimir House Guard
//LEGENDARY CREATURES (7)
Venser, Shaper Savant Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Keiga, the Tide Star Nicol Bolas Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker Thraximundar Kagemaro, First to Suffer
//ENCHANTMENTS (2) Rhystic Study Necromancy
//INSTANTS (16)
Cryptic Command Rewind Dismiss Force of Will Desertion Misdirection Hinder Fact or Fiction Brainstorm Thirst for Knowledge Vampiric Tutor Mystical Tutor Mystical Teachings Capsize Makeshift Mannequin Entomb
//SORCERIES (10)
Compulsive Research Cruel Ultimatum Demonic Tutor Profane Command Beacon of Unrest Damnation Bribery Buried Alive Syphon Mind Torrent of Souls
//PLANESWALKERS (2)
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Lilianna Vess
//ARTIFACTS (10)
Sensei's Divining Top Pithing Needle Engineered Explosives Loxodon Warhammer Mana Crypt Sol Ring Rakdos Signet Izzet Signet Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Dimir Signet
//LAND (33)
Thawing Glaciers Tolaria West Underground Sea Volcanic Island Badlands Steam Vents Watery Grave Blood Crypt Polluted Delta Bloodstone Mire Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Creek Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Vault of Whispers City of Brass Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Volrath's Stronghold Mountain x 5 Swamp x 3 Island x 5
The plan is to play this like a bigger, dumber aggro-control deck; countering threats when needed, accumulating advantage by replaying creatures and then eventually getting a few fat guys on the table who hopefully bring me all the way.
I'm not going to get big into what's here as its pretty simple: Reuse CIP effects as much as possible. Volrath's Stronghold and Kiki Jiki offer alternatives to Unearth, and the reanimation effects seemed like a no brainer with so many cards I'd want to enter play again and so many big dudes.
EDIT: One last thing: Gilded Drake looks AWESOME in here.
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 08:26:38 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Killane
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 04:11:31 pm » |
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at first glance, the manabase seems a bit light given the number of high cost spells you've got. I run 40 land plus 7 accelerants in my Horde of Notions deck (which has a similar concept and quite a few high CMC spells), and have never found it too much.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 10:20:53 pm » |
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I've adjusted my list to include more mana sources, as well as some other minor tweaks.
//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//CREATURES (16)
Shriekmaw Ingot Chewer Mulldrifter Trinket Mage Bone Shredder Nekrataal Puppeteer Clique Flametongue Kavu Izzet Chronarch Duplicant Bogardan Hellkite Solem Simulacrum Nezumi Graverobber Draining Whelk Sower of Temptation Gilded Drake
//LEGENDARY CREATURES (6)
Venser, Shaper Savant Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Keiga, the Tide Star Nicol Bolas Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker Kagemaro, First to Suffer
//ENCHANTMENTS (2) Rhystic Study Necromancy
//INSTANTS (14)
Cryptic Command Rewind Dismiss Force of Will Desertion Misdirection Hinder Fact or Fiction Brainstorm Vampiric Tutor Mystical Tutor Mystical Teachings Capsize Makeshift Mannequin
//SORCERIES (10)
Compulsive Research Cruel Ultimatum Demonic Tutor Profane Command Beacon of Unrest Damnation Bribery Buried Alive Syphon Mind Torrent of Souls
//PLANESWALKERS (2)
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Lilianna Vess
//ARTIFACTS (12)
Sensei's Divining Top Pithing Needle Relic of Progenitus Engineered Explosives Loxodon Warhammer Mana Crypt Sol Ring Rakdos Signet Izzet Signet Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Dimir Signet
//LAND (37)
Thawing Glaciers Tolaria West Underground Sea Volcanic Island Badlands Steam Vents Watery Grave Blood Crypt Polluted Delta Bloodstone Mire Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Creek Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Vault of Whispers City of Brass Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Volrath's Stronghold Sulfurous Springs Underground River Shivan Reef Reflecting Pool Mountain x 4 Swamp x 4 Island x 5
EDIT: Just tossed this together to play around with. Yuck. It needs a lot of work.
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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 11:00:23 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Matt
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 04:00:49 pm » |
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I feel like a lot of these CIP abilities are just too 'small' for multiplayer. Like, a terror is cool, and maybe two terrors are good. But after that, you've lost your Bone Shredder forever. Paying a few mana for an incremental effect like "draw2" or "deal 4" is playing too 'fair'. The advantage of Sedris is that you can get ANYTHING cheaply into play, so I'd play along to those strengths by reanimating something with a little more heft and leave the incremental advantage to Horde of Notions or something.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 04:31:27 pm » |
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I'm feeling the same way after playing around with it a little bit. It sucks almost as bad in duels. I'll be posting a completely new deck list later.
Thanks for the input.
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Anusien
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 04:47:27 pm » |
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Matt's concerns are why I dropped Sedris from my Garza Zol and later switched the deck to a recursion heavy Kresh the Bloodbraid.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 09:12:39 pm » |
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Revised, trying to salvage what I started with. I added some splashier dudes and more lands.
//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//CREATURES (16)
Shriekmaw Ingot Chewer Mulldrifter Trinket Mage Puppeteer Clique Spitebellows Izzet Chronarch Duplicant Bogardan Hellkite Solem Simulacrum Nezumi Graverobber Draining Whelk Sower of Temptation Bloodfire Colossus Sundering Titan Body Double Avatar of Woe
//LEGENDARY CREATURES (9)
Venser, Shaper Savant Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Keiga, the Tide Star Nicol Bolas Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker Thraximundar Kaervek the Merciless Kagemaro, First to Suffer Arcanis the Ominipotent
//ENCHANTMENTS (3) Rhystic Study Necromancy Phyrexian Arena
//INSTANTS (8)
Cryptic Command Desertion Hinder Fact or Fiction Vampiric Tutor Mystical Tutor Mystical Teachings Makeshift Mannequin
//SORCERIES (10)
Cruel Ultimatum Demonic Tutor Profane Command Beacon of Unrest Damnation Buried Alive Syphon Mind Torrent of Souls Decree of Pain Bribery
//PLANESWALKERS (2)
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Lilianna Vess
//ARTIFACTS (12)
Sensei's Divining Top Pithing Needle Relic of Progenitus Engineered Explosives Loxodon Warhammer Mana Crypt Sol Ring Rakdos Signet Izzet Signet Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Dimir Signet
//LAND (39)
Thawing Glaciers Tolaria West Underground Sea Volcanic Island Badlands Steam Vents Watery Grave Blood Crypt Polluted Delta Bloodstone Mire Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Creek Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Vault of Whispers City of Brass Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Volrath's Stronghold Sulfurous Springs Underground River Shivan Reef Reflecting Pool Crumbling Necropolis Mountain x 4 Swamp x 5 Island x 5
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« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 09:20:57 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Matt
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 11:41:48 am » |
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Acranis seems like an EXCELLENT guy to unearth. In fact, you could probably make a very interesting build of Sedris using guys with strong tap effects, unearth, and ways to repeatedly untap them like Thousand-Year Elixir so you get double or triple use from unearth's haste-granting. Visara the Dreadful and Avatar of Woe come to mind as very good. Perhaps Skill Borrower. Perhaps Demonic Hordes for a bit of old-school panache!
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2009, 06:00:58 pm » |
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That's not a bad idea. I think I'll give this a whirl and see what's worth cutting for some of the stuff you suggested.
Anything else sticking out that looks like it needs to be fixed?
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Matt
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 12:02:15 am » |
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If you have the mana, add Helldozer to the list of guys with awesome tap abilities.
Relic of Progenitus seems particularly anti-synergistic. Since you'll basically never want to nuke your own yard, this isn't really a cantrip, so you might as well run Tormod's Crypt if you're intent on cleaning house, or Phyrexian Furnace if you're intent on keeping people from their yards over many turns.
In multiplayer, the Signets are pretty much inferior to Fellwar Stone. Speaking of Fellwar Stone, the same goes for Exotic Orchard.
Treachery is pretty strong.
I don't really like the artifact lands, Trinket Mage notwithstanding, because they tend to die to a lot of resets like Disk. Darksteel Citadel excepted obviously. YMMV.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2009, 10:00:14 pm » |
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Great points all around. Thanks for all the help, Matt.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 11:26:41 pm » |
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I tweaked the deck a little bit and ended up with the following, which I played a lot after I failed hard at the Hadley tournament.
//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//BIG FAT GUYS
Bogardan Hellkite Keiga, the Tide Star Nicol Bolas Kaervek the Merciless Sundering Titan Arcanis the Omnipotent Avatar of Woe Thraximundar
//UTILITY DUDES
Duplicant Sower of Temptation Shriekmaw Pestermite Solemn Simulacrum Nezumi Graverobber Ingot Chewer Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Kagemaro, First to Suffer Izzet Chronarch
//TUTORS
Demonic Tutor Liliana Vess Vampiric Tutor Mystical Teachings Trinket Mage
//BAD ASS SPELLS
Engineered Explosives Cruel Ultimatum Decree of Pain Damnation Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Bribery Buried Alive Intuition Entomb Sensei's Divining Top Into the Roil (probably going to be switched for Capsize) Loxodon Warhammer
//DRAW
Mulldrifter Thirst for Knowledge Brainstorm Phyrexian Arena Fact or Fiction
//REANIMATORS
Body Double Makeshift Mannequin Necromancy Torrent of Souls Beacon of Unrest Puppeteer Clique Profane Command
//COUNTERSPELLS
Draining Whelk Desertion Cryptic Command Venser, Shaper Savant Remand Hinder
//ARTIFACT MANA
Sol Ring Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Mana Crypt Izzet Signet Rakdos Signet Dimir Signet
//LANDS
Badlands Volcanic Island Underground Sea Blood Crypt Watery Grave Steam Vents Bloodstained Mire Polluted Delta Scalding Tarn Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Vivid Creek Underground River Sufurous Springs Shivan Reef Vault of Whispers Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Crumbling Necropolis Reflecting Pool City of Brass Thawing Glaciers Volrath's Stronghold Tolaria West Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 3 x Swamp 5 x Island 4 x Mountain
The biggest change was adding Pestermite, which gives the deck a chance to combo off. Its worked out really, really well. Its saved my ass against out of control tokens, Sharuum and Magister Sphinx ready to swing... lots of stuff. I'm a little worried the deck will end up winning with that too much, but we'll see.
Kiki-Jiki has been totally stupid. A lot of the time, he's way better than Sedris (surprise, surprise).
Buried Alive fetching Body Double, Nicol Bolas, and Izzet Chronarch is pretty amazing.
This format is amazing with Planechase. I played with my wife and a friend at the game store tonight and the 4 people watching the game bought generals within 15 minutes.
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 10:29:06 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 09:06:56 am » |
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//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//BIG FAT GUYS
Bogardan Hellkite Keiga, the Tide Star Nicol Bolas Kaervek the Merciless Sundering Titan Arcanis the Omnipotent Avatar of Woe Thraximundar
//UTILITY DUDES
Duplicant Sower of Temptation Shriekmaw Pestermite Solemn Simulacrum Nezumi Graverobber Ingot Chewer Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Kagemaro, First to Suffer Izzet Chronarch
//TUTORS
Demonic Tutor Liliana Vess Vampiric Tutor Mystical Teachings Trinket Mage
//BAD ASS SPELLS
Engineered Explosives Cruel Ultimatum Decree of Pain Damnation Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Bribery Buried Alive Intuition Entomb Sensei's Divining Top Into the Roil Loxodon Warhammer Rite of Replication
//DRAW
Mulldrifter Thirst for Knowledge Brainstorm Phyrexian Arena Fact or Fiction
//REANIMATORS
Body Double Makeshift Mannequin Necromancy Torrent of Souls Beacon of Unrest Puppeteer Clique Profane Command
//COUNTERSPELLS
Draining Whelk Desertion Cryptic Command Venser, Shaper Savant Hinder
//ARTIFACT MANA
Sol Ring Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Mana Crypt Izzet Signet Rakdos Signet Dimir Signet
//LANDS
Badlands Volcanic Island Underground Sea Blood Crypt Watery Grave Steam Vents Bloodstained Mire Polluted Delta Scalding Tarn Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Vivid Creek Underground River Sufurous Springs Shivan Reef Vault of Whispers Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Crumbling Necropolis Reflecting Pool City of Brass Thawing Glaciers Volrath's Stronghold Tolaria West Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 3 x Swamp 5 x Island 4 x Mountain
I switched out Remand, which had not been performing unless I drew it really early, for Rite of Replication. That card has been truly insane. I played a few games with it last night, making 5 new Bogardan Hellkites one game and drew ten cards off Mulldrifters in another. Wow. It pretty much qualifies as another win condition.
I haven't run into a problem with Kiki/Pestermite like I thought I would. Removal stops the combo easily and I have plenty of other avenues to victory. No groans so far.
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Matt
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 11:59:42 am » |
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Oh yeah, I love me some Rite. Rite with kicker on almost anything in Sharuum is incredible, including Sharuum herself (my own personal Living Death? Why thank you!)
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SadDubs
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2009, 11:39:07 am » |
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How has trinket mage been? Do you find you really need the crypt or explosives? Seems like those slots could be put to better use, imo.
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2009, 01:55:06 pm » |
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Trinket Mage has been pretty reasonable. 90% of the time, he finds Top or Mana Crypt. Its certainly not the most powerful move the deck makes, but its decent. I have yet to wish I had something else there.
Crypt was cut a while back. I don't miss it. The effect was negligible in multiplayer, plus I like to reanimate my opponents creatures.
edit: thought you meant Tormods Crypt. Finding Mana Crpyt can be important with my high cost spells.
Engineered Explosives has been pretty solid. I face a lot of tokens at the store I play in, so it acts as a one sided Wrath a lot of the time. Additionally, its helped answer some annoying low cost enchantments my deck would otherwise struggle to deal with. I ahve been thinking about whether this is truly needed or not. I'm going to make an effort to pay attention to how often its relevant.
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 02:36:30 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Joblin Velder
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 11:19:44 pm » |
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I've been playing a lot, lately, and made a number of updates to the deck since I last posted.
//GENERAL
Sedris, the Traitor King
//BIG FAT GUYS
Thraximundar Bogardan Hellkite Avatar of Woe Kaervek the Merciless Nicol Bolas Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Arcanis the Omnipotent
//UTILITY DUDES
Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker Gilded Drake Shriekmaw Solemn Simulacrum Puppeteer Clique Izzet Chronarch Ingot Chewer Duplicant Kagemaro, First to Suffer
//TUTORS
Mystical Teachings Vampiric Tutor Liliana Vess Buried Alive Demonic Tutor Entomb Intuition Trinket Mage
//BAD ASS SPELLS
Rite of Replication Cruel Ultimatum Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker Bribery Memory Plunder Future Sight Damnation Decree of Pain Sensei's Divining Top
//DRAW
Thirst for Knowledge Fact or Fiction Phyrexian Arena Deep Analysis Mulldrifter Brainstorm Careful Consideration
//REANIMATORS
Makeshift Mannequin Body Double Profane Command Torrent of Souls Beacon of Unrest Necromancy
//COUNTERSPELLS
Desertion Cryptic Command Commandeer Time Stop Draining Whelk Venser, Shaper Savant Hinder Force of Will Counterspell
//ARTIFACT MANA
Mana Vault Sol Ring Darksteel Ingot Coalition Relic Mana Crypt Izzet Signet Rakdos Signet Dimir Signet
//LANDS
Badlands Volcanic Island Underground Sea Blood Crypt Watery Grave Steam Vents Bloodstained Mire Polluted Delta Scalding Tarn Terramorphic Expanse Vivid Crag Vivid Marsh Vivid Creek Underground River Sufurous Springs Shivan Reef Vault of Whispers Great Furnace Seat of the Synod Crumbling Necropolis Reflecting Pool City of Brass Volrath's Stronghold Tolaria West Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Reliquary Tower 3 x Swamp 5 x Island 2 x Mountain
- Keiga, - Sundering Titan, - Pestermite, - Graverobber, - Into the Roil, - Warhammer, - Engineered Explosives, - Thawing Glaciers, - 2 Mountains
+ Memory Plunder, + Future Sight, + Deep Analysis, + Careful Consideration, + Counterspell, + Time Stop, + Commandeer, + Force of Will, + Reliquary Tower, + Mana Vault
A lot of changes this time around. I added more control elements to the deck (Counterspell, Commandeer, etc), dumping a few of the cards that had been under performing or been too situational (Into the Roil, Warhammer). The deck was lacking draw, so I added a Careful Consideration, which has great synergy with my general and reanimators, and Deep Analysis, which can be Entombed in emergencies.
Nezumi Graverobber was amazing if I dropped him in the first 5 turns. After that, it was really hard to get online and keep him on the table. Keiga did not have any real synergy with the deck. He was nice every once in a while, but I found myself wishing I had something else almost every time I drew it.
Memory Plunder is without a doubt the best addition to the deck. It has won me more games than I ever thought it would. So far, I've hit Call of the Stormherd and a 14 point Corrupt. Pretty awesome.
The biggest change is the removal of the Kiki Jiki / Pestermite combo. As the group we play with has grown, 6-8 person games are more common. I feel like I'm cheating under those circumstances. I definitely need to work a little harder now and its a lot more fun for everyone.
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 11:32:09 pm by Joblin Velder »
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Metman
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« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 12:59:32 am » |
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Nucklavee may be a card to consider.
Also Dream Halls is a spectacular card to play in the grixis colors. It's symmetrical and most people think their decks are capable of abusing it as much as anybody else's deck so it doesn't get targeted. With Sedris and Dream Halls out unearthing your creatures you pay 2B for two creatures at a time, that's crazy.
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Matt
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 10:18:42 am » |
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I'm surprised at the loss of Keiga, but shocked at the loss of Thawing Glaciers, especially while other, much worse lands remain. City of Brass in particular looks like a lot of unnecessary pain.
The painlands also seem like more hassle than they're worth. Use the filter lands from Shadowmoor/Eventide! They're really good!
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 12:05:42 pm » |
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If your red mana can support it, Insurrection strikes me as one of the best EDH multiplayer cards out there. In our last game, I hated losing my first hand to that Tolaria plane because my whole plan was to just build up control resources at the same time as everyone else's board position developed and then try to win through a single well-defended Insurrection.
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