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Author Topic: Zendikar top 5 - vroman  (Read 10769 times)
nineisnoone
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2009, 06:01:32 pm »

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Why is 3 mana to search a land horrible?  We're not talking about fish decks here.  3 mana to a Stax list is nothing. 
Sure workshop decks can produce a lot of mana fairly quickly, but you still have to make a choice were to invest that mana into. By choosing to tutor a land for 3 mana (yes ok you don't need color it is all brown nice one) you are NOT doing something else, something that might be relevant and necessary.

Sure.  That's a play making decision though.  I'm not going to knock the card because someone might play it when they should have played something else though.

Suppose you use expedition map AFTER you get down your lock pieces (if you don't you will not survive), how strong of a follow up is it? Was this land tutor the card shop decks were waiting for? Is this the last piece that completes the puzzle?

After my lock pieces are dropped, what do I care?  My lock pieces have dropped. 

Stax decks aren't really a "puzzle."  They are established format contenders.  This is just a solid card that enters into their toolbox.

How big of an effect do you predict for expedition map nineisnoone? I can see some versions of shop using it as an utility sure, but saying it will very powerful, what does that actually mean for the meta? Please explain.

I never said it would be "very powerful."  I simply said it's better than Crop Rotation which I followed up in my prior post with the statement that I didn't think Crop Rotation was "the broken," i.e. nothing scary to come off the B/R list. 

So how big effect do I think it'll have?  It'll be good enough to play in a Shop deck.  It won't create it's own deck.  It won't thrust Shop decks into a new higher tier.  It won't necessarily be a staple. 

With splash damage I mean cards like null rod and ancient grudge. Or do you think you will have mana lying around all the time ready to activate it. With an important win condition like vault/key in the scene, people will always play artifact hate. If by any means the crucible/strip becomes too powerful, people will adapt fairly easy. You can't put down spheres, wires, etc... AND crucible plus tutor for your land all at the same time.

Again.  It's a Stax list.  Of course, there is going to be some artifact hate.  And 2 mana in a Stax list that can be used at any time?  Not all the time, but plenty enough.  I don't worry about those cards, because I doubt they're cards that you'd side in against it.  Many Shop lists go ahead and run Null Rod (at least I've seen plenty), even though it hits them as well. 

And you can't put spheres, wire "etc..." all at the same time either.  But nonetheless you play high threat densities and mana acceleration to play as much as you can as quickly as you can.  That's not a knock on the card, that's just a reality of the game.

Another thing is there are really not that many lands to tutor for. Maybe bazaar, strip, wasteland, glacial and the tabernacle. Could be a couple more sure but I am guessing these will be using these? Unless you have some hidden tech, please share if you do.

You forgot to add Shop and Tolarian.  Strip, Shop, Waste is plenty enough targets.  Certainly, Bazaar has proved itself as a card that can fit in a Shop deck.  B-rings has made appearances.  You can also go get a rainbow land.  Seems plenty enough.

Fish has noble hierarch, vials, null rod, trygon, shaman, magus of the moon.....

Don't see why you are bringing this up as it has nothing to do with the card.

combo is fast enough to not care

Not true, or else combo (presuming you don't mean Tezz) would be the top deck in the format.

dredge doesn't need that many bazaar activations these days, you better strip it fast

3 mana for Shop isn't that slow if you are on the draw, but admittedly this is the biggest knock on the card compared to Crop Rotation.

drain decks will not be impressed either they can produce more than enough acceleration to survive a relatively early strip lock

.....

My conclusion, it looks like a good utility if people choose to run it, however I wouldn't bet on it by being extremely powerful.

Never claimed it was going to be extremely powerful.
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I laugh a great deal because I like to laugh, but everything I say is deadly serious.
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