[Discussion] Goblins

[AmbivalentDuck]

I strongly believe that the advent of Burning Oath makes blind Chalices at 0 and/or 2 (hand dependent) correct.

Blind chalice at 2 is a bad play for MUD, it cuts off a lot of cards in your deck (most importantly your own spheres). Burning oath is very beatable by MUD and you shouldn't need to go on tilt mode to beat it. Also, Burning Oath is not exactly the "deck to beat"

If you can drop a Sphere and a Chalice@0 turn 1, that's obviously the correct play. In fact, I'd call Lodestone backed by Chalice@0 one of the strongest openers in Vintage that doesn't require a specific restricted card. I'm not sure how productive this discussion is since the Goblins player is fairly easy to scout and Chalice@1 will be the norm.

[gobl1nk1ng]

hello everyone. I am new to this website and magic, (back in after a 10 year break) I am a goblin fan, i recently got into magic at m13 and got tired of standard real quick. and met some people in las vegas that play all the eternal formats, they talked me into playing and i now have a goblin deck in every format. long story short, im super excited about vintage. i hope you all have some patience with me. i have gone thru this thread while awaiting admin approval and tried to soak up as much info as i could. i attended my first vintage tournament with a bad deck and went 2-2 and finished 9th of 18. i realized there is a very big diffrence between reading about vintage and actually playing it. so i am in the process of playing some cockatrice and some live vintage games to kinda feel out what i want vs what i need to do. heres what im working with right now.

Lands:
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills

Artifacts:
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby

Creatures:
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Lightning Crafter
1 Earwig Squad
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard:
1 Mox Emerald
2 Taiga
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void

[gobl1nk1ng]

here is a write up of the tournament that someone famous in magic and poker won, i dont know who's famous in this game but maybe ya'll know him.  heres the decklist i ran,

Lands:
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Strip Mine
3 Taiga
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

Artifact:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby

Spells:
3 Lightning Bolt

Creatures:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
3 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Earwig Squad

Sideboard:
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Earwig Squad

ok so lets get into it, i went 2-2 and finished in 9th place of 18. Dave williams ( @dwpoker ) split first with Lou Christopher ( @louchristopher ) both ran Burning Long.

Match 1 - win - (1-0)

Opponent Joe Mckeller ( @joeymac399 ) [this guy is behind all these vintage events]
he was running Landstill

game 1 loss (0-1)
i had a slow start and he made me feel it by recurring a Wasteland on my lands, my lesson, always put at least 1 basic into a vintage deck. i was locked out and had to scoop turn 3 but i made him beat me and didnt scoop so i could see more of his deck to know what i was facing (my first vintage tournament and first vintage play off Cockatrice)

game 2 win (1-1)
I had a quick start with a piledriver on turn 1 with the help of a mox, then cast another and a lackey turn 2, he couldnt stop me and i swung 4 times for the win.

game 3 win (2-1)
sometimes in magic, your opponent mull's to 3....this is what happened. i won easily and he didnt do anything besides an Ancestral Recall into nothing....or maybe he didnt even do that, it was bad...


Match 2 - loss - (1-1)

Opponent Tony Guitierez (sp?)
he was running workshop.

game 1 loss (0-1)
he turn 1 lomestone golem'd me and i was 1 mana behind what i needed for 4 turns as he beat in with a 5/3 then played another had 2 mana, needed 3, got to 3 he made it so i needed 4 to cast anything. was a complete beating..hard to beat a turn 1 5/3 that makes everything cost 1 more..a better Thalia.

game 2 loss (0-2)
i had no creatures, went land hate and used 2 wastelands and a Strip Mine. he drew perfectly and dropped the 5/3 and then another, i had the Krosan Grip sided in and in hand, but he just drew the nuts, and had it. i played him 4 more times as everyone else was still playing and we split, 2/2 un sideboarded. if i could get the lackey out and then bolt his golem, i had the game, if i couldnt deal the Tangle Wire would mollywhomp me.

Match 3 - loss - (1-2)

Opponent Lou
he was running burning long

game 1 loss (0-1)
he got a Griselbrand out turn 2 and went off...i had the Stingscourger in hand, but priority never passed. tough to beat storm when they draw 14 ...

game 2 win (1-1)
my sideboard made its presence felt. i turn 1 Wasteland and Mox Ruby, his turn killed his land, and countered something with Red Elemental Blast. next turn he tried to get out a Sol Ring and go off but i krosan grip'd him and then swung for lethal with a piledriver while he drew blanks. i somehow played it perfectly and he drew what he didnt need. he said that Wasteland was what cost him that game.

game 3 loss (1-2)
another turn 2 Griselbrand...couldnt stablize, even managed to get an Earwig Squad out and took out 3 threats, but he built his deck well enough that i couldnt Hit all the threats and got me real good turn 6

Match 4 - win - (2-2)

Opponent Derrick Guittierez (sp?) my round 2 opponents cousin
he was running BUG Fish

game 1 loss (0-1)
got him to 9 then he stablized with a goyf and overran me...

game 2 win (1-1)
i had a perfectly timed Red Elemental Blast after swinging for 10 with piledrivers, and he miscalculated and i got a surprise win thanks to REB

game 3 win (2-1)
game was pretty close, i played almost perfectly got him to 6 and let a Dark Confidant stay on the board and turn 6 he revealed a blightsteel collossus losing 11 Life giving me the win

[AmbivalentDuck]

Omitting Demonic Consultation from any gobs list that can reliably produce black mana is a mistake.

Unlike Legacy where stopping Counterbalance and Diving Top (into miracles) is critical, the closest Vintage has is Oath of Druids. Krosan Grip isn't a valid answer to Vintage workshop decks.

Grafdigger's Cage and dedicated artifact removal are better strategies.

The rest of my objections are more contentious and meta dependent. Regardless, you need to explain why you aren't netdecking. Ie. Why you're using strategies from legacy instead of one of the posted builds.

[gobl1nk1ng]

(Omitting Demonic Consultation from any gobs list that can reliably produce black mana is a mistake.)
I dont get how that is good in a goblin deck that already has tutors in matron and recruiter and ringleader? why would i exile cards to get to a goblin when i already have several ways to get them? i would consider demonic tutor first if i needed it, but when im playing i never really have a problem searching for what i need at that moment, but again, i do not speak from a position of knowledge on the subject matter, i have only really been playing vintage for like 2 weeks so far. i accept that i am missing something when people suggest cards.


(Unlike Legacy where stopping Counterbalance and Diving Top (into miracles) is critical, the closest Vintage has is Oath of Druids. Krosan Grip isn't a valid answer to Vintage workshop decks.)
i like the split second to stop storm decks, is there another artifact hate card that does that, or another sideboard card i dont know about that stops storm decks? or am i using that card wrong?

(Grafdigger's Cage and dedicated artifact removal are better strategies.) ok, ill look at them.

(The rest of my objections are more contentious and meta dependent. Regardless, you need to explain why you aren't netdecking. Ie. Why you're using strategies from legacy instead of one of the posted builds.)

I am doing a little of both. like i said im getting into the format, i would like to playa  goblin build that has the ability to kill on turn 1 or two. which kiki-jiki allows me to do.

[gobl1nk1ng]

also the whole netdecking thing...i get that there are smarter people than me, and i have no problem playing someone else's deck at first, but i want to play my own decks. if i win with my own deck that means more to me than winning with someone else's deck, magic isnt my job. i do not need to win above all else. i think im smart enough and with enough practice and time can figure something out that others cant or wont. until them im here to take advice and learn. i took a net deck to the tournament i went to. and learned alot, now im building my own and would like to hear honest feedback about it.

[AmbivalentDuck]

(Omitting Demonic Consultation from any gobs list that can reliably produce black mana is a mistake.)
I dont get how that is good in a goblin deck that already has tutors in matron and recruiter and ringleader? why would i exile cards to get to a goblin when i already have several ways to get them? i would consider demonic tutor first if i needed it, but when im playing i never really have a problem searching for what i need at that moment

Exiling cards isn't a cost in a build that doesn't rely on restricted cards. Costing one mana less and happening at instant speed actually puts Consultation on par at least with Vampiric Tutor in a build with multiple interesting 4-ofs that you might want to find. Ringleader is not a tutor.

(Unlike Legacy where stopping Counterbalance and Diving Top (into miracles) is critical, the closest Vintage has is Oath of Druids. Krosan Grip isn't a valid answer to Vintage workshop decks.)
i like the split second to stop storm decks, is there another artifact hate card that does that, or another sideboard card i dont know about that stops storm decks? or am i using that card wrong?

To the best of my knowledge, the only meaningful interaction this has with Vintage storm is stopping Yawgmoth's Bargain or Necropotence IF they pass priority between activations and don't Duress or Thoughtseize you. If you're using this to address their Oath, you've already given them many turns without pressure from goblins on the table or disruption.

I am doing a little of both. like i said im getting into the format, i would like to playa  goblin build that has the ability to kill on turn 1 or two. which kiki-jiki allows me to do.

That's a ten mana, three-card kill. In your deck, that's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve turn 1.

[gobl1nk1ng]

turn 1 maybe not but turn 2 is a possibility.

[AmbivalentDuck]

i have no problem playing someone else's deck at first, but i want to play my own decks. if i win with my own deck that means more to me than winning with someone else's deck, magic isnt my job. i do not need to win above all else. i think im smart enough and with enough practice and time can figure something out that others cant or wont. until them im here to take advice and learn. i took a net deck to the tournament i went to. and learned alot, now im building my own and would like to hear honest feedback about it.

What you wandered into without realizing it is that because of the way the community has historically treated goblins decks, I've been forced to defend top8 performances as not being a series of flukes. I've recently taken some very strong positions regarding the importance of testing others' decks and being careful not to dismiss different ideas. At the same time that I'm probably one of the folks on TMD most tolerant of unconventional designs, I'm also a loud proponent that decks should be fit for the general purpose of winning games online or at a tourney. We're all here to win.

You have a different goal though. Let's say for the sake of argument that we know the ideal goblins build. You're asking us how to perform better without getting abstractly "too close" to ideal. That means your deck is pulled between being good and being yours. That's not something that anyone else here has any reason to do it. Why would I want to design a suboptimal deck so that you can feel like it's yours? How does that help anyone but you?

[gobl1nk1ng]

i have no problem playing someone else's deck at first, but i want to play my own decks. if i win with my own deck that means more to me than winning with someone else's deck, magic isnt my job. i do not need to win above all else. i think im smart enough and with enough practice and time can figure something out that others cant or wont. until them im here to take advice and learn. i took a net deck to the tournament i went to. and learned alot, now im building my own and would like to hear honest feedback about it.

What you wandered into without realizing it is that because of the way the community has historically treated goblins decks, I've been forced to defend top8 performances as not being a series of flukes. I've recently taken some very strong positions regarding the importance of testing others' decks and being careful not to dismiss different ideas. At the same time that I'm probably one of the folks on TMD most tolerant of unconventional designs, I'm also a loud proponent that decks should be fit for the general purpose of winning games online or at a tourney. We're all here to win.

You have a different goal though. Let's say for the sake of argument that we know the ideal goblins build. You're asking us how to perform better without getting abstractly "too close" to ideal. That means your deck is pulled between being good and being yours. That's not something that anyone else here has any reason to do it. Why would I want to design a suboptimal deck so that you can feel like it's yours? How does that help anyone but you?

no i get that totally, and im sure ina  onth or two ill be on the same page, but for me right now, i just want to learn the combo part of kiki-jiki then ill switch over to a food chain version then get a more competitive version and along the way understand what these other decks are, i have played against 5 kinds of vintage decks, im still at the point where when someone plays a tinker, im not sure if i should counter it or not. all im asking now is ill say what my goal is and hope someone can help me. this is the only active vintage goblin area of the entire internet that i have found, mtgsalvation, reddit.com, and cockatrice are all big big letdowns, as everyone i talk to just says "dont play goblins"

as far as designing a suboptimal deck, ill build mine for the decks i play against for right now and thats it. no point in me building a deck that can beat dredge if no one i know has a dredge deck, im not trying to win a vintage tournament. not yet at least. any help is appreciated. and ill share everything i learn with you guys so maybe just maybe i can return the favor. (longshot lol)

[TheWhiteDragon]

i have no problem playing someone else's deck at first, but i want to play my own decks. if i win with my own deck that means more to me than winning with someone else's deck, magic isnt my job. i do not need to win above all else. i think im smart enough and with enough practice and time can figure something out that others cant or wont. until them im here to take advice and learn. i took a net deck to the tournament i went to. and learned alot, now im building my own and would like to hear honest feedback about it.

What you wandered into without realizing it is that because of the way the community has historically treated goblins decks, I've been forced to defend top8 performances as not being a series of flukes. I've recently taken some very strong positions regarding the importance of testing others' decks and being careful not to dismiss different ideas. At the same time that I'm probably one of the folks on TMD most tolerant of unconventional designs, I'm also a loud proponent that decks should be fit for the general purpose of winning games online or at a tourney. We're all here to win.

You have a different goal though. Let's say for the sake of argument that we know the ideal goblins build. You're asking us how to perform better without getting abstractly "too close" to ideal. That means your deck is pulled between being good and being yours. That's not something that anyone else here has any reason to do it. Why would I want to design a suboptimal deck so that you can feel like it's yours? How does that help anyone but you?

no i get that totally, and im sure ina  onth or two ill be on the same page, but for me right now, i just want to learn the combo part of kiki-jiki then ill switch over to a food chain version then get a more competitive version and along the way understand what these other decks are, i have played against 5 kinds of vintage decks, im still at the point where when someone plays a tinker, im not sure if i should counter it or not. all im asking now is ill say what my goal is and hope someone can help me. this is the only active vintage goblin area of the entire internet that i have found, mtgsalvation, reddit.com, and cockatrice are all big big letdowns, as everyone i talk to just says "dont play goblins"

as far as designing a suboptimal deck, ill build mine for the decks i play against for right now and thats it. no point in me building a deck that can beat dredge if no one i know has a dredge deck, im not trying to win a vintage tournament. not yet at least. any help is appreciated. and ill share everything i learn with you guys so maybe just maybe i can return the favor. (longshot lol)

I myself am working on a goblins list, and I see both sides of this coin.  However, I am also building a design somewhat off the mainstream (no piledrivers, no warchiefs is one difference).  I understand the desire to play a deck that is your own.  That's half the fun of magic.  For me, I'd rather build a great deck that someone else pilots to a finals win, rather than pilot someone else's deck to a finals win myself.  There is the aspect of the game that is playskill and decision making (playing) and then there is the aspect of design and puzzle solving (deckbuilding).  If I can build the deck that optimizes good plays and has a great matchup vs everything while also minimizing the dependence on supreme play skill, then I've done something worthy there.  If I pilot some "netdeck" (and God, do I hate anything netdeck) then I feel like i didn't win at all but just coached someone else's baseball team to the world series.  Now if I pilot my OWN deck to a top showing, that means something to me.

I can understand innovation being held above piloting, because i am in that boat as well.  Sometimes, I make mistakes and the build comes out less than optimal - so you tweak and sometimes go back to square one.  Sometimes your tweaks bring you really close to something that IS a netdeck, and you find out from experience why those card choices work.  However, to say "why don't you just netdeck" assumes that someone else has found the optimal build and there is no room for improvement.  From the myriad of lists on TMD, we know there are ALWAYS new tech to be found, and new angles to take.  If you think that because someone else designed a list and it has been copied a dozen times and won a few events, that there is no better list possible, and no card choices that could be optimized, then you will be satisfied with stagnance and left behind when new decks emerge.  

I've always innovated even when fantastic netdecks were available.  Back in my heyday, there was nothing like The Man Show or The Riddler when I made them.  And they crushed people.  There wasn't anything like my portent/tidespout oath build that ELD can attest to playtesting against me on MWS WAAAY back in the day (granted, several tidespout lists popped up independently around the same time, but I still thought of it on my own, and my version was mightily different from other lists - and it won first  2 out of 3 16+ man tourneys back when Dissension first came around).  The point being, it is perfectly fine to strike out on your own to invent something new, then tweak it as you play.  You don't need to just copy something because you don't want to invent.  It would be like just copying Alexander Bell's telephone because it works and has proven useful and successful - however i'm pretty sure you enjoy your iPhone.

[AmbivalentDuck]

The very brief answer to that: If he does innovate, he can contribute quite a bit by explaining the innovations and presenting his testing results. Some of us would test his list for themselves. My understanding was that he wants us to help optimize a list he already believes to be subpar and not arrive at our own lists by doing so.

[gobl1nk1ng]

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Ruby

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Rakdos Charm

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Stingscourger
4 Warren Instigator
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Earwig Squad


this is what im gonna run tonight at FNM

[AmbivalentDuck]

As I've said many times in this thread, the exclusion of Demonic Consultation is a mistake.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Just spoiled:

Spike(?) Clown
Critter - Goblin
Haste
3/1

I think this actually pushes at the edges of playable. Being able to come out of nowhere and uncounterably kill a Jace (off Cavern) might push this into playable. Taken together with Legion Loyalist and Earwig Squad, a Goblins deck that actually angles for beatdown might be possible. I doubt it. Put possible.

[MaximumCDawg]

Goblin Deathraiders didn't see play.  Haste is better than Trample, but how much better...?

[TheWhiteDragon]

I like the hasty guy, but you want turn 1 lackey, turn 2 land, connect, drop warcheif, prowl earwig.  With this guy, you're tapping out on turn 2 to cast it...which means no mana for earwig.  Also, you are playing goblins.  Cheiftain and Warcheif already haste your world.  If your opponent is dropping jace and you only have 1 goblin in play or can't drop a haster and another cheap goblin in the same turn, you're playing wrong anyway.  Playing red, jace-runners are probably scouting bolt anyway, so they probably start off with a fateseal if you don't have a ton of damage on the table already anyway.

[xouman]

I agree with  TheWhiteDragon. This goblin seems a nice aggro, but not for a Goblin deck that effectively wants T1 lackey followed by warchief and earwig. there are other utilities and so, but maindeck you aren't focused to quick beating at any cost.

maybe in a different Goblins approach it can be a great adition.

[desolutionist]

I 3-1ed twice in the Vintage dailys with Goblins.  And I am absolutely certain this is a competitive deck for years to come, so I'm going to post my list here before its lost:

Creature (30)
3 Earwig Squad
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Welder
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger

Artifact (11)
1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

Land (19)
3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Wasteland
7 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Wooded Foothills


Sideboard (15)
3 Wasteland 
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Grafdigger's Cage 
1 Crash
2 Ingot Chewer 
1 Pulverize
2 Pyrokinesis 
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Shattering Spree

[tito del monte]

Hey Desolutionist - please tell us more! Goblins looks awesome fun - and the Caverns/Chalice set-up very handy.

A couple of questions:
- how come you have the bulk of the Wastelands in the side?
- Did you consider Legion Loyalist, perhaps as a one-of, in such a (supposedly) creature token heavy meta?
- How did Lackey fare? Has a dwindling in the number of Deathrite Shamans being played helped him connect?
- Is black the only colour worth splashing? Is Earwig Squad better than say the Thalia that crops up in Legacy builds?
- No love for any non-gobbo removal, say Pyrokinesis?

I've never played the deck, but love the look of it. Will undoubtedly sleeve it up at some point. Great work!

[desolutionist]

Wasteland is for Workshop, Dredge, and Dark Depths. I actually only owned Ghost Quarters online not Wastelands so I only used them when I knew they didn't have any basics.

Sharpshooter owns tokens.. Maybe Loyalist is great too I'm not sure.  Maybe with Mentor, Loyalist is better. This was a few months ago that I was playing vintage on mtgo.  I'm just posting the list because I had a hard time finding a list to go off when I started with gobos.

The DRS matchup is the easiest matchup, not because Lackey connects but because you quickly have a lot more creatures than your opponent.

Earwig Squad is the reason for black, obviously, and I've messed around with a 3rd color but felt that was too much.

Pyro is in the board! I'm not sure if this is the exact list I would put together, but definitely a great starting point; I've played gobos online quite a bit.  Let me see if I can find the other list, which is slightly different.  *EDIT* I found that I actually 3-1ed three times with the above list with minor tweaks (Mental Misstep, Shattering Spree, etc.)

The following list was my last creation and it shows what direction I wanted to start going with the deck:

Creatures (28)
4   Goblin Lackey      
4   Goblin Matron      
4   Goblin Warchief      
3   Earwig Squad      
2   Gempalm Incinerator   
2   Goblin Piledriver      
1   Goblin Chieftain      
1   Goblin Recruiter      
1   Goblin Sharpshooter      
1   Goblin Tinkerer      
1   Goblin Welder      
1   Krenko, Mob Boss      
1   Murderous Redcap   
1   Skirk Prospector      
1   Stingscourger      

Spells (16)
4   Chrome Mox      
1   Demonic Tutor      
1   Thoughtseize      
1   Warren Weirding      
1   Demonic Consultation      
1   Vampiric Tutor      
1   Black Lotus   
1   Lotus Petal   
1   Mana Crypt   
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Skullclamp   
1   Sol Ring   

Lands (16)
5   Mountain      
4   Cavern of Souls      
3   Badlands      
2   Bloodstained Mire      
1   Strip Mine      
1   Wooded Foothills      

Sideboard (15)
4   Chalice of the Void   
4   Grafdigger's Cage   
4   Shattering Spree   
3   Thoughtseize

The mindset for playing the vintage goblin deck is that your opponent simply isn't equipped to deal with your threats, so 3 mana 2/2 w/ Haste = bomb.

[tito del monte]

Sweet! Thanks for the answers - and that new lists looks very interesting, an attempt to up the raw power a bit. I guess like any dudes-based deck, it's a trade-off between increasing the power-level and keeping it redundant/synergistic enough, but the approach looks interesting. Certainly, Merfolk has been able to find a sweet-spot between those tensions that works. I suppose the issue for Goblins in comparison to Merfolk is whether it can interact as powerfully as a blue-based deck gets to; whether the black tutors are comparable to the Recall/Walk fish get to play and whether it has a finisher as hard to disrupt as True Name. Guess I shall throw it together and find out...

[desolutionist]

I started to think of individual Goblins as I would individual bombs in a TPS deck.  What really is the difference between a turn 1 Grim Tutor and a turn 1 Goblin Warchief?  Although less broken, Goblins wins as quickly as the TPS deck does on average, so whether you're tapping out for fixers or to put Goblins into play, the end result is the same.  I've found the heavy black addition gives the deck some busted lines with Goblin Recruiter, Skullclamp, etc.  Take it with a grain of salt; its some abstract magic theory and mostly experimentation.  (Chrome Mox is pretty terrible for example)

Goblin Recruiter is the real monster.  Against a deck that is built around interaction on a Flusterstorm/Misdirection level, if the top 20 cards of your deck are creatures, you're really going to expose the mismatch.

[Anusien]

What do you think of Blood Moon? Mostly for its value in shutting off Workshops and Factories from Shops (which make Vandals more powerful), but you could also have some fringe value against Delvers or Tendrils.

[desolutionist]

I played with Magus of the Moon recently (not in Goblins) and I was pleased with the effect.  Very powerful in the meta.

But I've had some mediocre experiences with Vandal; Shattering Spree and Wasteland/Ghost Quarter/Strip Mine are pretty great for against Shops.     

[msg67183]

I've been testing a version of Goblins on Cockatrice that has had some exciting and very good results:

The Horde 


Mana (21):

4 Cavern of Souls 

4 Bloodstained Mire 

3 Badlands 

3 Mountain 

4 Wasteland 

Strip Mine 

Black Lotus 

Mox Ruby 


Dudes (32):

3 Skirk Prospector 

4 Goblin Lackey 

4 Goblin Warchief 

1 Goblin Chieftan 

4 Goblin Ringleader 

4 Mogg War Marshall 

1 Siege Gang Commander 

1 Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker 

1 Goblin Sharpshooter 

4 Goblin Matron 

1 Krenko, Mob Boss 

4 Earwig Squad 


Prison (7):

4 Chalice of the Void 

3 Null Rod 


Sideboard:


4 Ingot Chewer 

4 Shattering Spree 

4 Grafdigger's Cage 

3 Goblin Bombardment 


Skirk Prospector is absolutely nuts, it comboes with the token makers to ramp you ahead on mana. Kiki Jiki is there for value plays: copying Matron for a tutor effect, Siege Gang to amass an army, the possibilities are endless!

As for the board, Bombardment has been pretty sweet against Oath and Dredge and the creature matchups.

Workshops is usually a bye in that you amass a ton of board presence via your token makers.

What are everyone's thoughts?

[Wagner]

What exactly is the play if you have T1 Prospector and Turn 2 Marshal? Do you sac the 3 tokens for a Warchief? Or for Matron, then sack the Matron for tutored Lackey? Or just attack with Prospector and sac it to Earwig?

What's best against what?

[msg67183]

What exactly is the play if you have T1 Prospector and Turn 2 Marshal? Do you sac the 3 tokens for a Warchief? Or for Matron, then sack the Matron for tutored Lackey? Or just attack with Prospector and sac it to Earwig?

What's best against what?

All of those lines of play are common for this deck yes. It all depends on what you feel you need at the moment. I will say that Earwig Squad, Chalice and Null Rod really push this decks playability. They really punish the greedy decks hard.

[Space_Stormy]

What exactly is the play if you have T1 Prospector and Turn 2 Marshal? Do you sac the 3 tokens for a Warchief? Or for Matron, then sack the Matron for tutored Lackey? Or just attack with Prospector and sac it to Earwig?

What's best against what?

All of those lines of play are common for this deck yes. It all depends on what you feel you need at the moment. I will say that Earwig Squad, Chalice and Null Rod really push this decks playability. They really punish the greedy decks hard.

hear me out, -1 Mox Ruby, -1 Black Lotus +1 Lotus Petal, +1 Chrome Mox -> Play in Eternal weekend for the unpowered prize

[Wagner]

What exactly is the play if you have T1 Prospector and Turn 2 Marshal? Do you sac the 3 tokens for a Warchief? Or for Matron, then sack the Matron for tutored Lackey? Or just attack with Prospector and sac it to Earwig?

What's best against what?

All of those lines of play are common for this deck yes. It all depends on what you feel you need at the moment. I will say that Earwig Squad, Chalice and Null Rod really push this decks playability. They really punish the greedy decks hard.

Wouldn't Simian Spirit Guide be strictly superior to Lotus Petal in a deck with Null Rod?
hear me out, -1 Mox Ruby, -1 Black Lotus +1 Lotus Petal, +1 Chrome Mox -> Play in Eternal weekend for the unpowered prize