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Author Topic: Discussion: Theoretical Answers to Time Vault  (Read 13852 times)
Matt
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« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2009, 12:09:38 pm »

Library Eating Shaman, RG (or GU?)
1/3
Pro blue, flash
Whenever an activated ability is played, its controller exiles the top 5 cards of his/her library.
Exiling is not really a red or green thing. I'd say make him red and black.
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« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2009, 01:02:28 pm »

AD: Good one. It's not too obvious, and it could actually be a real card. If anything, it's blue-black... but then pro-blue looks a bit odd. 1B? BB?

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« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2009, 02:18:26 pm »

Library Eating Shaman, RG (or GU?)
1/3
Pro blue, flash
Whenever an activated ability is played, its controller exiles the top 5 cards of his/her library.
Three abilities and a defensive mana cost on a RG creature?
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2009, 03:06:08 pm »

Then make it UW.  Pro blue just seems odd on UW.  Maybe switch it to shroud instead.

Kindle, Consumer of Libraries, UW
Enchantment
Shroud, Flash
Whenever an activated ability is played, its controller exiles the top 5 cards of his/her library.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 03:21:54 pm by AmbivalentDuck » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2009, 07:06:25 pm »

Another crazy alternative:

Shaka the Inverter  {G} {R}  {B}
Legendary creature - Snake Wizard
Protection form Blue, Haste
Whenever an artifact's activated ability is played, that ability's controller exiles the top 4 cards of their library.
"I told you to get it out of my sight.  Now I will show you your folly in keeping it here."
3/2
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« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2009, 08:25:41 pm »

Then make it UW.  Pro blue just seems odd on UW.  Maybe switch it to shroud instead.

Kindle, Consumer of Libraries, UW
Enchantment
Shroud, Flash
Whenever an activated ability is played, its controller exiles the top 5 cards of his/her library.

Shroud is a good fix. You could also do this as a small creature (say a 1/2 for UG - this guy's ability is such that IMO he shouldn't be a 2/x for 2). That would be a little bit easier for non-Vintage formats to deal with, because as-is this is extremely hard to remove.

Also, I think you need to fix the wording of the main ability a little. Currently, as far as I can tell, this would trigger when you tap stuff for mana. New version.

Kindle, Consumer of Libraries, UW
Enchantment
Shroud, Flash
Whenever a player plays an activated ability that isn’t a mana ability, that player exiles the top five cards of his or her library.


(Template copied from Burning-Tree Shaman)
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« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2009, 03:12:22 pm »

I gotta say I like this better as an RG man, although it's true that RG does not mill - Book Burning isn't really precedence for such a thing.  Can it maybe destroy the source of the effect, is there a wording for that?

"If player plays an activated ability that isn't a mana ability, instead destroy the non-creature source of the ability"?

Non-creature since Green doesn't really shoot critters, plus it sort of lets you play unfair and have guys like Lavamancer on your team.  I think making it a replacement effect prevents shenanigans like putting a triggered ability on the stack a billion times and never letting it resolve, which means that it's no real 'answer' if you can APNAP your way around it.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2009, 02:20:28 pm »

Using some "un" flavor:

Amazon Kindle, Destroyer of Libraries {R} {G}
Enchantment
Shroud, Flash
Whenever a player plays an activated ability that isn’t a mana ability, that player exiles the top five cards of his or her library.
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« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2010, 01:27:33 pm »

The way I see it, the Time Vault combo only works in a BU-based deck, because you need cards that allow you to hunt through your library for the combo pieces.  Given that such cards are too powerful to begin with and arguably distastefully homogenize much of the vintage metagame, I feel a good way to answer Time Vault is to print cards that hate on the card-drawing and tutoring mechanics, to the same extent that Leyline of the Void and Planar Void hate on dredge.

The only such usable hate cards I can think of that do this currently are Chains of Mephistopheles (card-drawing hate) and Aven Mindcensor (tutoring hate).  There is room for much more creative alternatives.

I think the printing of such cards will help answer the Time Vault (read:  black-blue) problem.  It won't make the strategy go extinct, just like no amount of Ichorid-hate has made the Ichorid deck go extinct.  But forcing card-drawing/tutoring based decks to run anti-hate will make them more fragile and thus diversify the metagame.

While modifying the B/R list or adding errata can have violent, unforeseeable consequences, printing slightly better versions of Chains of Mephistopheles and Aven Mindcensor should allow for a more careful, controlled shift of the metagame with minimal disruption to the secondary market.

Finally, since hating on card-drawing and tutoring has a theme of nature and justice, it would most likely belong in green or white - colors which could use greater relevance in the vintage metagame.

I've posted some examples of what such hate cards might look like in separate threads:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39560.0
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39555.0
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