Stax Draw Engine

[Stormanimagus]

3   Smokestack
3   Crucible of Worlds
4   Dark Confidant
4   Goblin Welder
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Tinker
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Imperial Seal
1   Crop Rotation
1   Karn, Silver Golem

And these cards do WHAT exactly to disrupt or lock out the opponent upon resolution (save Crucible if you have a played Waste/Strip and they have a targetable land- Non-basic if Waste and any if Strip)? This is WAAAAAY too many slots devoted to eventual CA IMHO for a Stax deck. 17 to be exact [and I'm not counting lands]. Thta's about HALF of the non-mana cards in your deck. You are going to find yourself being too slow to beat TPS in basically every game. You are going to find yourself losing to Vault/Key from Tezz more than you think. I mean, where are the MF-SPHERES! At the very least you should be running the 4 Sphere of Resistance and I'd recommend the full 9 post board. I really don't get this fascination with 5-Color Stax that sooo many folks have. Mono-Red is just plain better 95% of the time and Bazaar of Baghdad is the most busted Draw engine in the format right now so why not run a full 4 all the time. Guys, Stax is about consistently disrupting the opponent and then right a Smokey + B-Ring or Robot to victory. I'm telling you all once and for all that you SHOULD be running this list if you are not already!

Mono-Red Shops

Land (21):
4 Mishra’s Workshop
3 Mountain
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Bazaar Of Baghdad

Artifacts (35):
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Sphere Of Resistance
4 Null Rod
4 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
1 Trinisphere

Creatures (4):
4 Goblin Welder

SB
4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Tabernacle at The Pendrell Vale
4 Shattering Spree
4 Ensnaring Bridge


This list is ridiculously consistent and has a great draw-engine. If people are too stupid to realize just how good this deck is then I feel sorry for them as they'll just continue playing sub-optimal versions of Shops that try to play like a mixture of highlander.dec and lock.dec and do neither very well.

-Storm

[Juggernaut GO]

there just aren't nearly enough monkey cages in they decklist for me  to respect it.  Sorry sir.

[TheShop]

3   Smokestack
3   Crucible of Worlds
4   Dark Confidant
4   Goblin Welder
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Tinker
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Imperial Seal
1   Crop Rotation
1   Karn, Silver Golem

And these cards do WHAT exactly to disrupt or lock out the opponent upon resolution (save Crucible if you have a played Waste/Strip and they have a targetable land- Non-basic if Waste and any if Strip)? This is WAAAAAY too many slots devoted to eventual CA IMHO for a Stax deck. 17 to be exact [and I'm not counting lands]. Thta's about HALF of the non-mana cards in your deck. You are going to find yourself being too slow to beat TPS in basically every game. You are going to find yourself losing to Vault/Key from Tezz more than you think. I mean, where are the MF-SPHERES! At the very least you should be running the 4 Sphere of Resistance and I'd recommend the full 9 post board. I really don't get this fascination with 5-Color Stax that sooo many folks have. Mono-Red is just plain better 95% of the time and Bazaar of Baghdad is the most busted Draw engine in the format right now so why not run a full 4 all the time. Guys, Stax is about consistently disrupting the opponent and then right a Smokey + B-Ring or Robot to victory. I'm telling you all once and for all that you SHOULD be running this list if you are not already!

Mono-Red Shops

Land (22):
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Mountain
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Bazaar Of Baghdad

Artifacts (34):
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Sphere Of Resistance
4 Null Rod
4 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
1 Trinisphere

Creatures (4):
4 Goblin Welder

SB
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Tabernacle at The Pendrell Vale
3 Shattering Spree
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thorn Of Amethyst

This list is ridiculously consistent and has a great draw-engine. If people are too stupid to realize just how good this deck is then I feel sorry for them as they'll just continue playing sub-optimal versions of Shops that try to play like a mixture of highlander.dec and lock.dec and do neither very well.

-Storm

Most winning stax decks run welders (several of the innovators/originators of Stax and the tournament reports from championship decks confirm this-plus, you run it).  Demonic, Vamp, Imp seal: these have been found in the same championship 5color decks until they recently found a home in B/R stax:  which is what mono-red Bazaar/Uba stax has mutated into recently...  Confidant has been the topic of this whole discussion(but I doubt you really wanted to discuss or read any form of reasoning).  Crop rotation has been the focus of several of Stephen's articles recently and has been included since the beginning (although I just said I would consider cutting it for a Bazaar).  Karn is questionable, while my reasons for ancestral recall have already been stated.  I think I may cut Karn to squeeze Bazaar #2 into the deck (making tinker do what it does more than 50% of the time for me anyway: find the missing lock piece).  You run smokestack and crucible....

This is not a discussion of which variant of Workshop + 56 cards is the best deck.  Your post is very inflammatory and off topic (not to mention hypocritical, as you run many of the cards you listed).

[forcethewill]

the best engine for the deck is not ancestral nor Bob.  Its memory jar.  its a reoccurring draw 7 effect that creates massive synergy with goblin welder.  Its tinkerable castable on turn 2 and a single recursion of this card via goblin welder will cause most players to scoop. 
-throws off eot vamp mystical...ect.
-cause ichorid players to get greedy.  (well bad ones at least)
-dumps all the trash that you draw into the yard
it is better then dark confidant.  I would never run him in a stax list due to him being painful  running cities, ancient tomb, vamp, and barb ring already hurt enough.  I don't care if it is only 1 a turn, Many games come down to you needing your city of brasses to be used, and i for one dont want to have taken 2 off a sphere or 1 off a vamp being revealed to not be able to cast something that will lock my opponent out of the game.  Bob just seems more of a win more.

[Juggernaut GO]

in addition to that, theres always the luckshot where you hit both yawgwill and vault/key in their 7 without a brainstorm.

[Stormanimagus]

Most winning stax decks run welders (several of the innovators/originators of Stax and the tournament reports from championship decks confirm this-plus, you run it).  Demonic, Vamp, Imp seal: these have been found in the same championship 5color decks until they recently found a home in B/R stax:  which is what mono-red Bazaar/Uba stax has mutated into recently...  Confidant has been the topic of this whole discussion(but I doubt you really wanted to discuss or read any form of reasoning).  Crop rotation has been the focus of several of Stephen's articles recently and has been included since the beginning (although I just said I would consider cutting it for a Bazaar).  Karn is questionable, while my reasons for ancestral recall have already been stated.  I think I may cut Karn to squeeze Bazaar #2 into the deck (making tinker do what it does more than 50% of the time for me anyway: find the missing lock piece).  You run smokestack and crucible....

This is not a discussion of which variant of Workshop + 56 cards is the best deck.  Your post is very inflammatory and off topic (not to mention hypocritical, as you run many of the cards you listed).

Of course I know that Welder should be in every list. And of course I also know that Crucible should be in most every list. My point is that you need a certain critical mass of lock-pieces that your list simply does not run and this is folly for Stax IMO. Stax is not going to win the Bomb War so why try? Why not go for an avenue that this deck excels in?

-Storm

P.S- I'm not attempting to be intentionally inflammatory, but perhaps my sensationalist remarks stem from the fact that my teammate, Ici Li, has piloted this list to a top 8 in every tournament he's attended and people continue to call it a joke. I just find that ironic.

[Prospero]

Most winning stax decks run welders (several of the innovators/originators of Stax and the tournament reports from championship decks confirm this-plus, you run it).  Demonic, Vamp, Imp seal: these have been found in the same championship 5color decks until they recently found a home in B/R stax:  which is what mono-red Bazaar/Uba stax has mutated into recently...  Confidant has been the topic of this whole discussion(but I doubt you really wanted to discuss or read any form of reasoning).  Crop rotation has been the focus of several of Stephen's articles recently and has been included since the beginning (although I just said I would consider cutting it for a Bazaar).  Karn is questionable, while my reasons for ancestral recall have already been stated.  I think I may cut Karn to squeeze Bazaar #2 into the deck (making tinker do what it does more than 50% of the time for me anyway: find the missing lock piece).  You run smokestack and crucible....

This is not a discussion of which variant of Workshop + 56 cards is the best deck.  Your post is very inflammatory and off topic (not to mention hypocritical, as you run many of the cards you listed).

Of course I know that Welder should be in every list. And of course I also know that Crucible should be in most every list. My point is that you need a certain critical mass of lock-pieces that your list simply does not run and this is folly for Stax IMO. Stax is not going to win the Bomb War so why try? Why not go for an avenue that this deck excels in?

-Storm

P.S- I'm not attempting to be intentionally inflammatory, but perhaps my sensationalist remarks stem from the fact that my teammate, Ici Li, has piloted this list to a top 8 in every tournament he's attended and people continue to call it a joke. I just find that ironic.

Noah, don't you think it's a little absurd for you to be extolling the virtues of a deck that you've never played?  Let alone tearing down a different deck that you, once again, haven't played?

Buddy, calm down there.

There are benefits to running mono red Shops and there are benefits to 5C.  Stax, in all its iterations, is nothing more than a hate deck.  To say that one variant or another is 'better' is to ignore the metagame (you won't know it's 'better until you know specifically what you're fighting - on a given day a deck archetype that has been dead for years might be the right call if it has favorable match-ups against whatever's prominent in the field.)  You can say that a given build was 'better' on a given day, but I don't think anyone can say more than that without it becoming a statement about personal preference that ignores the veractiy of the original claim.

And for the record, in all the events that I've played in during the last 18 months, I recall mono red Shops making top 8 exactly twice.  Once it lost in the first round.  During that time frame I believe I've seen 5CStax miss top 8 twice. You can claim small sample size, as it's probably only 15-20 events, but that's my two cents.

[TheShop]

I think that there have been so many variants on shop.dec that it is hard to get noticed.  Most of the decks are within like 6 cards of each other (leading to that problem of being dismissed).

I will say though, that I have nearly the lock components run by the old stax decks, chang era stax decks, R/B stax, and some of the other red lists.  What has happened is that we have all cut the:
1 Sundering Titan (if applicable)
1-2 Triskelion
1 Duplicant
1 Karn
0-2 mox monkey
and possibly magus

and are all searching for what we want to put in those slots...it seems like what you run in their stead determines your colors.  Your seemingly 4 of every good lock component looks like what MUD lists used to run (-4 rod, +4 thorn).  I always thought they ran these to make up consistency for lack of draw/tutor power (this includes the lack of bazaar).

By the way, I am a recent convert to chalice/rod from sphere/thorn.  I have been watching this argument (and arguing with my close friends about it) since the onset of UbaStax.  And, there is no Vintage tourney in my area, so I have been goldfishing these alot in an attempt to aid my builds and reading a metric ton of older articles and forum posts (so I do not mind discussing the theory if someone hasn't played it out yet- my playing input has mostly come from the experience of others through articles, forums, and lots of stax play in the past locally).  I thought about driving to the Meandeck tourney in Ohio, but that didn't pan out (this is the closest real tourney to me as far as I can measure).

[Shean]

I just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to comment on this:

When you get to nothing but mana in hand, you have a 50% chance of ripping mana off the top.  Even if you draw business, you are under control because they will outdraw you and find the answer to your average 1 spell every 2 turns.

I think this is a huge reason that Bazaar is a great draw engine for Stax.  You elect when to throw away useless cards for the potential to draw useful lock pieces. 

Combine this with the fact that Bazaar is a land (no cost plus synergy with Crucible) versus a Dark Confidant, which can't be cast with Workshop and risks being locked out by your own null rod or sphere.

Also worth noting is the ability for Bazaar to feed your graveyard when you have no hand (synergy with Welder + Crucible that everyone knows about).

As you all have mentioned, Stax is a deck that needs to win through playing more powerful cards, rather than through card advantage.  I think synergy with the rest of the deck is a huge factor to consider as well.

These 4 reasons push me to favor Bazaar over Dark Confidant.

[LordHomerCat]

I just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to comment on this:

When you get to nothing but mana in hand, you have a 50% chance of ripping mana off the top.  Even if you draw business, you are under control because they will outdraw you and find the answer to your average 1 spell every 2 turns.

I think this is a huge reason that Bazaar is a great draw engine for Stax.  You elect when to throw away useless cards for the potential to draw useful lock pieces. 

Combine this with the fact that Bazaar is a land (no cost plus synergy with Crucible) versus a Dark Confidant, which can't be cast with Workshop and risks being locked out by your own null rod or sphere.

Also worth noting is the ability for Bazaar to feed your graveyard when you have no hand (synergy with Welder + Crucible that everyone knows about).

As you all have mentioned, Stax is a deck that needs to win through playing more powerful cards, rather than through card advantage.  I think synergy with the rest of the deck is a huge factor to consider as well.

These 4 reasons push me to favor Bazaar over Dark Confidant.

Why can't you play both?  In BR, Bazaar and Bob means you see 4 new cards every turn and will be playing a real spell every turn, as opposed to just bazaar which lets you play a spell every other turn.

[Shean]

I just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to comment on this:

When you get to nothing but mana in hand, you have a 50% chance of ripping mana off the top.  Even if you draw business, you are under control because they will outdraw you and find the answer to your average 1 spell every 2 turns.

I think this is a huge reason that Bazaar is a great draw engine for Stax.  You elect when to throw away useless cards for the potential to draw useful lock pieces.  

Combine this with the fact that Bazaar is a land (no cost plus synergy with Crucible) versus a Dark Confidant, which can't be cast with Workshop and risks being locked out by your own null rod or sphere.

Also worth noting is the ability for Bazaar to feed your graveyard when you have no hand (synergy with Welder + Crucible that everyone knows about).

As you all have mentioned, Stax is a deck that needs to win through playing more powerful cards, rather than through card advantage.  I think synergy with the rest of the deck is a huge factor to consider as well.

These 4 reasons push me to favor Bazaar over Dark Confidant.

Why can't you play both?  In BR, Bazaar and Bob means you see 4 new cards every turn and will be playing a real spell every turn, as opposed to just bazaar which lets you play a spell every other turn.

Running both means that you have to cut out other cards (lock components).

Bazaar lets you do a lot more than just play a spell every other turn.  It lets you throw away trash that you don't want, it lets you throw artifacts into the graveyard for Welder, it lets you throw lands into the graveyard for Crucible, and it lets you throw cards into the graveyard for threshold.  While the last might not be significant if you aren't running Barbarian Ring, the others are just as important.

[TheShop]

I just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to comment on this:

When you get to nothing but mana in hand, you have a 50% chance of ripping mana off the top.  Even if you draw business, you are under control because they will outdraw you and find the answer to your average 1 spell every 2 turns.

I think this is a huge reason that Bazaar is a great draw engine for Stax.  You elect when to throw away useless cards for the potential to draw useful lock pieces.  

Combine this with the fact that Bazaar is a land (no cost plus synergy with Crucible) versus a Dark Confidant, which can't be cast with Workshop and risks being locked out by your own null rod or sphere.

Also worth noting is the ability for Bazaar to feed your graveyard when you have no hand (synergy with Welder + Crucible that everyone knows about).

As you all have mentioned, Stax is a deck that needs to win through playing more powerful cards, rather than through card advantage.  I think synergy with the rest of the deck is a huge factor to consider as well.

These 4 reasons push me to favor Bazaar over Dark Confidant.

Why can't you play both?  In BR, Bazaar and Bob means you see 4 new cards every turn and will be playing a real spell every turn, as opposed to just bazaar which lets you play a spell every other turn.

Running both means that you have to cut out other cards (lock components).

Bazaar lets you do a lot more than just play a spell every other turn.  It lets you throw away trash that you don't want, it lets you throw artifacts into the graveyard for Welder, it lets you throw lands into the graveyard for Crucible, and it lets you throw cards into the graveyard for threshold.  While the last might not be significant if you aren't running Barbarian Ring, the others are just as important.

You only need to run 17-20 lock components....so you technically have room left.  The problem here is not the deck real-estate, it is the fact that in 5-color you MUST lay a land in order to play one of your colored spells in a timely manner.  This is problem I am currently working on (though I havent had much free time).

[Twaun007]

I just read this thread from start to finish and wanted to comment on this:

When you get to nothing but mana in hand, you have a 50% chance of ripping mana off the top.  Even if you draw business, you are under control because they will outdraw you and find the answer to your average 1 spell every 2 turns.

I think this is a huge reason that Bazaar is a great draw engine for Stax.  You elect when to throw away useless cards for the potential to draw useful lock pieces.  

Combine this with the fact that Bazaar is a land (no cost plus synergy with Crucible) versus a Dark Confidant, which can't be cast with Workshop and risks being locked out by your own null rod or sphere.

Also worth noting is the ability for Bazaar to feed your graveyard when you have no hand (synergy with Welder + Crucible that everyone knows about).

As you all have mentioned, Stax is a deck that needs to win through playing more powerful cards, rather than through card advantage.  I think synergy with the rest of the deck is a huge factor to consider as well.

These 4 reasons push me to favor Bazaar over Dark Confidant.

Why can't you play both?  In BR, Bazaar and Bob means you see 4 new cards every turn and will be playing a real spell every turn, as opposed to just bazaar which lets you play a spell every other turn.

Running both means that you have to cut out other cards (lock components).

Bazaar lets you do a lot more than just play a spell every other turn.  It lets you throw away trash that you don't want, it lets you throw artifacts into the graveyard for Welder, it lets you throw lands into the graveyard for Crucible, and it lets you throw cards into the graveyard for threshold.  While the last might not be significant if you aren't running Barbarian Ring, the others are just as important.

Peep this monster.

1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Welder

1 Babarian Ring
4 Badlands
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills


-20 Lock components
-Sweet Draw Engine
-Super Consistent

It is even possible to cut the Thorn's or another lock piece for Darkblast, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal.

Seriously, Confidant and Bazaar are unreal together. Not only does Confidant offer you a draw engine, he offers you a decent clock as well. I have been working on a B/R Twaunstax Primer for ever and I'll be posting it with in a day or so. I'm pretty sure it will answer a lot of the questions that are up for debate.

[Neonico]

Isn't lack of a Big finisher an issue with confidant (even if the average mana cost is really low) ?

A Solution would be to sneak in some Phyrexian totems in the mix no ? (Would make you cutt null rod)

[Twaun007]

Isn't lack of a Big finisher an issue with confidant (even if the average mana cost is really low) ?

You could use Millstone as a finisher since it doesn't actually matter when your opponent's locked out of the game.

[Neonico]

Still doesn't work under null rod....

[zeus-online]

There's 4 smokestacks in the list aswell as several sphere's....When the opponent is locked down completely you could win with anything...Even crappy stuff like millstone since you'd just sac the null rod (Same goes for confidant) If your opponent is locked down you can beat him with welder and let the confidant go to a smokestack. Honestly, i doubt very much that the problem will ever be to kill the opponent....When you're done locking, he won't be able to do anything at all anyway.

[Tobi]

I think the problem Neonico was concerned with was dying to Confidant before you can kill.
But yes, you can always solve your Bob-problems with Smokestack.

[zeus-online]

And i didn't even count the 2 lands that can kill him.

[Shean]

Peep this monster.

1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod
4 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Welder

1 Babarian Ring
4 Badlands
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills

Your list looks interesting.  I'll have to playtest it, but my initial reaction is:  you don't run Mana Vault or Mana Crypt???

[meadbert]

I think the problem Neonico was concerned with was dying to Confidant before you can kill.
But yes, you can always solve your Bob-problems with Smokestack.

It is tough to die to your own Bobs in Stax.  Not only is the total CMC of the deck lower than Drain decks, but the standard deviation is lower as well so you do not get randomly screwed by flipping Force/MisD two turns in a row or hitting Inkwell. Bob should almost always take out your opponent before you.

[Sean Ryan]

-20 Lock components
-Sweet Draw Engine
-Super Consistent

It is even possible to cut the Thorn's or another lock piece for Darkblast, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal.

Peeped Yo!

Take note, Twaun just dropped knowledge for all you aspiring Mishar's out there.

I run the black tutors main with the Thorns in the side instead.  I go back and fourth with Crypt because of the cumulative damage the deck deals out, but it just seems wrong to not include it.

This version is soooo much more consistent than any 5c list I've played.  You lose Balance and Tinker but gain a true draw engine and consistency.  What's funny is that it's taken so long for this development to catch on...and apparently it still hasn't.

Sleeve it up and start winning...or you can keep having "fun" casting Tinker and Recall.

Spike or Johnny?

[Tobi]

Wouldn't Demonic Consultation make sense in this deck? There are no real one-ofs you would truely miss if they got exiled.

[zeus-online]

Wouldn't Demonic Consultation make sense in this deck? There are no real one-ofs you would truely miss if they got exiled.

Without having played the deck, i think the answer is no...This deck has no tutors or anything that deviates from dropping cards onto the battlefield asap without wasting time to tutor for them....The list has no "surplus" cards like demonic etc. Instead it plays with lots of lock pieces and 8 creatures to really abuse bazaar aswell as keep throwing nasty lock components on the table.

[Sean Ryan]

DT & VT for Strip is an amazing play in any Stax deck, Bob's Bazaar as well...I think I just  came up with a new surname for B/R Stax

 BtW,

If you aren't running Null Rod in stax you are wrong.

[TheShop]

It seems like the tutor question brings us closer to the original topic of 5color...finding bombs was the main reason to explore the other three colors.  Also, people have been running bazaar in stax with fewer colors since the stone-age. This is not new. I find it particularly interesting that the deck would make such a huge splash after only adding 1 color and exchanging 4 Uba masks for bob.

[Twaun007]

It seems like the tutor question brings us closer to the original topic of 5color...finding bombs was the main reason to explore the other three colors.  

The problem with the tutor package in 5cStax is that the majority of them are card disadvantage and we're already at a great disadvantage since we're not playing blue. In my experience that disadvantage never added up to Win for me.    

Also, people have been running bazaar in stax with fewer colors since the stone-age. This is not new. I find it particularly interesting that the deck would make such a huge splash after only adding 1 color and exchanging 4 Uba masks for bob.

The issue is Dark Confidant as the draw engine in Stax, not Bazaar of Baghdad.  

Confidant is insanely better than Uba Mask. Confidant costs less, can be cast easily under Thorn of Amethyst, beats for two, blocks opposing Confidants, and doesn't get hit by artifact removal.

Don't get me wrong, Uba Mask was cock diesel when Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge showed up in quad lazer, but the problem is that it lost its effectiveness due to the restrictions last year.

[Shean]

Don't get me wrong, Uba Mask was cock diesel when Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge showed up in quad lazer, but the problem is that it lost its effectiveness due to the restrictions last year.

This is funny.  I was playing last night against Vroman up at XtremeGames and I asked him why Uba Mask isn't seeing much play anymore.  His response was almost word-for-word the same.

[Prospero]

It seems like the tutor question brings us closer to the original topic of 5color...finding bombs was the main reason to explore the other three colors.  

The problem with the tutor package in 5cStax is that the majority of them are card disadvantage and we're already at a great disadvantage since we're not playing blue. In my experience that disadvantage never added up to Win for me.    

Also, people have been running bazaar in stax with fewer colors since the stone-age. This is not new. I find it particularly interesting that the deck would make such a huge splash after only adding 1 color and exchanging 4 Uba masks for bob.

The issue is Dark Confidant as the draw engine in Stax, not Bazaar of Baghdad.  

Confidant is insanely better than Uba Mask. Confidant costs less, can be cast easily under Thorn of Amethyst, beats for two, blocks opposing Confidants, and doesn't get hit by artifact removal.

Don't get me wrong, Uba Mask was cock diesel when Brainstorm and Thirst for Knowledge showed up in quad lazer, but the problem is that it lost its effectiveness due to the restrictions last year.

If I was ever going to abandon my Gemstones and Cities it would be for your build, nearly card for card.  I'm intrigued by it, as it seems to have an incredible turns 3-6, at the very least.  I like it quite a bit.

Confidant + Bazaar seems absurdly good.

And yeah, Uba Mask has certainly tumbled from its prior position.  I don't think it will ever reach that point again, as I just can't see Wizards printing something that functions as Brainstorm or Thirst for Knowledge again.  

[TheShop]

The point here is that 5-color can still run 4 dark confidants and be a viable deck.  

Cutting tutors is not a reasonable suggestion when you consider that when the B/R lists added black, they added 4 tutor slots.  The problem is not inherent disadvantages of running tutors.  The question is whether or not we can come up with a draw engine by cutting 4 copies of something from the deck.

to sum up the previous discussion on the topic, we need to consider the possible draw engines available:
4 Dark Confidant alone

4 Dark Confidant +  4 Bazaar

4 Mystic Remora

1 Thirst + 3 of the above

4 Night's Whisper

As far as I can tell, Night's whisper and thirst are not a serious consideration for most players.  Without further reasoning to include them, I would leave them unconsidered.  This leaves 4 copies of Remora and the Confidant and/or Bazaar combinations to consider.  I maintain that Chalice is a lock component too good to lose in this deck: which makes sacrificing an additional 4 deck slots to run a 1cc card less than glamorous.(4 welder, 4 remora, 3 tutor/rotation=11...making chalice more symmetrical).  Even if Chalice were removed for spheres, this card would still require multiple lands/moxes to play through redundant sphere effects.

Choices left for me to consider:
4 Bob

4 Bob with Bazaar

Either way, Bob is an inclusion at this point as far as I am concerned.

Main Questions:
1)  Can 5-color afford to lose a city of brass/gemstone mine drop to play a Bazaar?
2)  What would we cut to run Bazaar?
3)  Does Bazaar's inclusion mean that the deck should be limited to 12 colored spells like B/R builds?  (I intend for this question to be about the fact that the colored spells are unweldable and cannot be replayed with Crucible from the yard, not that they would require colored mana to cast from hand.)

My initial reactions:
If the answer to question 3 is "Yes", then the solution to the bazaar issue is amazingly clear.  If the deck only runs 12 colored spells, here is what they will be:
4 Welder
4 Bob
4 Tutor

This fact leads to the conclusion that Bazaar is un-includable in 5-color because it eliminates the colors other than Black and Red.  Cutting the additional 4 colored spells would allow for the addition of Bazaar:  which answers Question 2.  At that point, Question 1 is no longer applicable to the discussion.

To sum it all up:  Does Bazaar make the colored spells unplayable?  If it does, then it cannot be included in 5-color Stax (because 5-color would no longer include 5 colors....).  Whatever assertion a respondent would make regarding the potential abuse of Bazaar or which color combination is better is completely irrelevant to the question at hand:  Can 5-color afford to run this draw engine ?  The question of the power of Bazaar is an entirely different discussion altogether.  Right now, we are simply focusing on which draw engines could be ported into this deck and which of the possible inclusions would be the most powerful while maintaining the deck's identity: 5 colors.

EDIT:

I just had another very idea which may be thought-provoking:  This deck has the ability to run Blue cards.  When Roland Chang ran this deck he ran 4 Thirsts.  Strategic Planning was not available at that time.  Confidant is sorcery speed and is currently primarily used with Bazaar so that you can choose 1 of your top 4 cards and up it into hand...the rest go to the yard.  What are everyone's thoughts on running 4 strategic planning in lieu of the 4 slots possible to devote to Confidant (allowing the deck to perform nearly the same function of putting several re-playable cards in the yard while keeping a playable spell a single time)?  This would save the deck from the issue of not being able to play colored sources in order to play Bazaar.