Channel - X power

[waffles]

i was looking at channel  and thinking of how to abuse it. One combo with it stood out was Eternity Vessel  . So i ask, would this work well in compeditive play; or is this more a casual direction? because i see this could be used for powering some massive x stuff. I was thinking along the lines of maybe a G/U deck ill post the list i had in mind here in a bit, when i have the time.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189006

[The Atog Lord]

I could well be wrong about this, but I don't think that Eternity Vessel and Channel have enough power to see competitive Vintage play. It's 6GG mana for a combo which doesn't win you the game. And because it counts your life total when played, Channeling out the Vessel isn't a very strong play either. I think that Vintage has several combos which are stronger than Vessel and Channel. If you want infinite mana, Power Artifact and Grim Monolith can do that for much less mana. And if you want to win the game using a six mana artifact, Mindslaver can (often) do that on its own.

[waffles]

I could well be wrong about this, but I don't think that Eternity Vessel and Channel have enough power to see competitive Vintage play. It's 6GG mana for a combo which doesn't win you the game. And because it counts your life total when played, Channeling out the Vessel isn't a very strong play either. I think that Vintage has several combos which are stronger than Vessel and Channel. If you want infinite mana, Power Artifact and Grim Monolith can do that for much less mana. And if you want to win the game using a six mana artifact, Mindslaver can (often) do that on its own.

true that grim can do that for cheaper, now that i look closer i do this as mono green deck. but i can get around the mana cost with shops and other mana accel. i was thinking of using it to power helix pinncale. im really going to have to proxy it out.

Also, i was thinking of using painter and lifeforce to allow me to counter things, good idea or bad idea?

[i_set_fire]

you need a 100 counters for helix to win.  you can only get 19 out of your channel because the eternity vessel wont reset your life to 20 until the next turn land drop (unless you are playing fastbond or something, too).  so it will take 5 turns and 5 channels.  the five turns is unlikely that you will survive that long and the 5 channels isnt even possible due to the B/R list.

man would that suck if they hexmage it with 90 counters on it...

[Yare]

man would that suck if they hexmage it with 90 counters on it...

Helix Pinnacle has shroud and can't be targeted by Hexmage.

However, yes, Helix Pinnacle + Channel is not a terribly good combo idea, for the reasons outlined above and others.

[smasher]

true that grim can do that for cheaper, now that i look closer i do this as mono green deck. but i can get around the mana cost with shops and other mana accel. i was thinking of using it to power helix pinncale. im really going to have to proxy it out.
Also, i was thinking of using painter and lifeforce to allow me to counter things, good idea or bad idea?

Eternity vessel is casual to answer your first post. Some work has been done on Lichs mirror and channel that you should look into. I'm not saying its good but it is better than what you are proposing.

Workshop + 2 green land drops for channel isn't worth the effort. You will lose the game while you are doing nothing for at least 3 turns. Painters servant + lifeforce sounds bad because lifeforce will rarely be good on its own. The main reason Red elemental blast/Pyroblast + painters servant works is because the counters are usually good on thier own and become 1 mana instant vindicates with painter in play.

I'm not against trying out new cards from new sets but this Eternity vessel just doesn't seem to be worth the time or the paper its printed on.

If you ever build a deck with helix pinnacle as your wincon you should consider a splash into other colors and run banefire or kaerveks torch so your win doesn't fold to pithing needle which is abundant in sideboards.

[waffles]

Some work has been done on Lichs mirror and channel that you should look into. I'm not saying its good but it is better than what you are proposing

okay thats way better, only problem is i wouldnt be able to channel myself for 20, cause i cant channel myself to death. so i would have to come up with a way to shoot myself on demand. it being a non tap effect.

[koxl0003]

Well, I'm not saying this is good, but if you're wanting to get Eternity Vessel out quickly, there's always Tinker. Or you could play it in a Workshop deck...

As for combos with it, these are sort of obvious, but Yawgmoth's Bargain/Necropotence seem pretty good with a way to reset your life total just by playing a land...

Those being said, I wouldn't count on Eternity Vessel being good outside of casual.

[smasher]

Some work has been done on Lichs mirror and channel that you should look into. I'm not saying its good but it is better than what you are proposing

okay thats way better, only problem is i wouldnt be able to channel myself for 20, cause i cant channel myself to death. so i would have to come up with a way to shoot myself on demand. it being a non tap effect.

You can't pay life you don't have such as being at zero with platinum angel in play and trying to add additional mana through channel.

You can be at 1 and pay that last point to zero through channel and trigger lichs mirror though.

[waffles]

Some work has been done on Lichs mirror and channel that you should look into. I'm not saying its good but it is better than what you are proposing

okay thats way better, only problem is i wouldnt be able to channel myself for 20, cause i cant channel myself to death. so i would have to come up with a way to shoot myself on demand. it being a non tap effect.

You can't pay life you don't have such as being at zero with platinum angel in play and trying to add additional mana through channel.

You can be at 1 and pay that last point to zero through channel and trigger lichs mirror though.

then i miss read the ruling. then this acually rules because once i get channel i can just channel into the mirror. Since channel is a legacy effect, during that turn at anytime that turn i can pay life.  So i would channel into the mirror then use it as a draw engine to find my win con. now the real issue would be finding channel in mono green since its restricted i think i would have to go into another color to find it.

now as for win con i was thinking

helix pinn

rocket launcher

Hurricane

[MEATROCKET]

I'm going to honestly critique your choices.  I am not intending to flame.

Helix Pinnacle is an awful win condition.  Since it triggers on your upkeep, you need to a lot of things:
-combo out*
-get the Pinnacle
-pass turn and get to your next upkeep.

*by "combo out," apparently you are trying to use Mirror+Channel as a draw engine.  So you need to Channel into Mirror, then kill yourself several times - but each time, you need Mirror in play.  So to get the mana to feed Pinnacle, you will need to do this at least several times...in a green-heavy deck.  I find it hard to believe that you can even think that this has potential.  You know that in the same exact deck you could just replace Channel and Mirror with Vault and Key and win much more efficiently? (I'm not suggesting this, but it's true since you *need* both Channel and Mirror, and both do nothing by themselves [Sure Channel can, but good luck making good use of it]  Also, I think Mirror/Channel in addition to Vault/Key can be interesting. See below).

Rocket Launcher blows since it basically has summoning sickness.  Goblin Cannon and Magma Mine are what you want instead.

Hurricane is awful as well.  You'll need to Mirror into it with mana floating from a previous Mirror.  This path to victory is just too complicated, situational and uses too many dead cards.

I've only been impressed by a Mirror/Channel deck once, from this list http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1142 , and guess what?  It has loads of tutors and protection.  And Vault/Key.  I'm not trying to flame you, I just seriously wonder what kind of environment you're playing in that would make you consider this deck (and other decks you've posted).  The most improvement/critique I can offer is simply this: realize the direction you're going in is doomed to be not competitive, and understand why I think this.

[waffles]

I'm not trying to flame you, I just seriously wonder what kind of environment you're playing in that would make you consider this deck (and other decks you've posted). 

To start off this isnt a completed idea, just spectuation on how to abuse channel, so far i have channel/mirror. i knew tutors would be necessary to pull it off since channel is restricted.

Maybe some insight into my thought process and background will shed some light on how my deck ideas come about. Ive been a causal player for many years, just reciently i wanted to try to break into the compeditive play arena. As for card choice when building, i take a look at a card and think "hrmm, how could i abuse this?" i start from that one card and try to blossom into a deck and really i dont have a full idea about which way i want to go. I Also, when building a deck i do take in concideration of what i may encounter, but the idea of meta-gaming is a new concept to me. Perhaps this makes me a bad deck builder, and an average player, then again maybe not. My sole drive is about trying developing a deck that is outside the status quo, and then challenging the status quo with it. How do you think the top tier decks became to be that way? It's that way for all my ideas. I'm looking for something that isn't the top 8, yes, i know i can and will win with them, but coming up with something entirly new is far more challenging task. The closest ive been has been my bitter ordeal deck, and it does win vs most of the tier decks still has an issue with aggro. One of my outlandish ideas may go on to become something to be reckoned with, or end up in the stack of causal decks that i have. I won't know this unless i present the idea and ask questions of this commnunity.

[smasher]

The best use of channel is going to be in a goblin charbelcher deck that is green,red, and possibly 1 more color such as black for tutors and protection spells like duress.

[Beralt]

Channel + Eternity Vessel, just makes you a bit harder to kill and in vintage that is not enough - there are many ways to gain infinite life (or at least a very large arbitrary sum), you can still die to Painter/Grindstone or Oona with Infinite Mana from Dragon loops.

Until they print tutors, draw and a viable kill condition in Green, it's going to be a forgotten child in vintage, Channel is powerful, but it has trouble winning on it own - Artifacts help but Null Rod is such a huge factor.

[waffles]

Channel + Eternity Vessel, just makes you a bit harder to kill and in vintage that is not enough - there are many ways to gain infinite life (or at least a very large arbitrary sum), you can still die to Painter/Grindstone or Oona with Infinite Mana from Dragon loops.

Until they print tutors, draw and a viable kill condition in Green, it's going to be a forgotten child in vintage, Channel is powerful, but it has trouble winning on it own - Artifacts help but Null Rod is such a huge factor.

then i need to move in a different direction, perhaps an enduring renewal type of deck with grinding station and/or blasting station as win con. thought of using fastbond/crucible/zuran orb with Piranha Marsh as win con. but now that i think about it that seems a bit much for vintage.

[BruiZar]

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23065

[waffles]

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23065

hrmm, guess ill try it