Favorite Final Fantasy/Other RPG

[Demonic Attorney]

So I was reading old TMD threads recently and came across this one far back in the mists of TMD's venerable history.  It was funny to look at how we all interacted when the community dynamics were so different. 

It was also fun to read over people's arguments on an admittedly inconsequential topic, and hey, why not give it another try?  If nothing else, it should give people who are new to TMD a chance to participate this time around.

But to add some extra fuel to the fire, I want to post responses to the comments in the previous thread:

So apparenlty FF7 doesn't work too well on a modern PC. Razz

So much for that.

Maybe I'll find a PSX copy and play it on ye old PS2.

FFVII is now on the PS3 network, if that's an option for any of you interested in trying it out.  I guarantee it's worthy investment of your time.

Sorry to chime in, but FFII is clearly the best FF game.  This should be obvious to anyone who is brilliant.  FFVII can be crushed by a sleep deprived mentally challenged spider monkey.  There is no challenge to the game whatsoever.  None.  After beating the game I felt a void.  The cold feeling was the realization that I had spent 20 hours of my life for nothing.

In closing, Dragon Warrior 3 is the best RPG ever.

As a 9 year old child, I low-level completed FFIV, having never played an RPG of any variety before in my life, and having never played a SquareSoft title (except Rad Racer).  Notwithstanding being totally unfamiliar with the common conventions of the RPG genre and Square as a developer, and despite not having fully developed the frontal lobe of my brain, I was able to finish FFIV with the added challenge of being underleveled.  These are not the demarcations of a challenging game.

If you're looking for a challenging game, play The 7th Saga, and have a ready supply of backup hardware on hand to replace the controllers that you will inevitably hurl against the wall in fits of overwhelming frustration.  Challenge is nice, but even an optimal amount of challenge does not make a good game; in fact, too much of it makes for an extremely annoying game.  FFVII struck what I took to be a good balance between challenge and accessibility, by reserving the very hardest part for side quests.  And as far as challenge goes, Emerald/Ruby WEAPON were approximately 6.02 x 10^23 times harder than anything in FFIV.

All of the people who voted FF VII clearly don't understand the genius that is FF III.


18 characters.  Each with their own story.  Each with their own purpose.  Each with their own strengths and weaknesses.  Each of them human.

This touches on a problem with Square RPG's, RPG's in general, and video games as a whole.  The main characters receive 99% of the attention put towards character development, and the ancillary characters are little more than an afterthought, especially to the extent they don't help the development of the main character.  And the more ancillary characters there are, the less attention all of them get. 

How much independent character development was there for Shadow in FFVI?  Gau?  Strago?  Gogo?  That's my point.  FFVII, purely by dint of the lesser number of characters if nothing else, didn't have this problem to the same degree. 

In summation, FFVII is the best game ever and this is so important to establish beyond all dispute that I don't regret investing 15 minutes in explaining why.  QED.  Discuss.

[Diakonov]

I chose FFVII, although, best game ever?  I think that title belongs to Super Mario Bros.  

I would also put Starcraft up there in front of it.  The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time as well.

I've heard many say that FFVI is the best RPG of all time, but I've only played the first hour.

Xenogears has a pretty loyal cult following as well.

[Juggernaut GO]

its really close for me between ff 6 and ff7, I actually like the storyline in ff6 better, and i remember buying it the week it came out on super nes.  FF7 i must have played for 60 hours on playstation, then later I bought it for PC.  When playing it, I never really understood the story.  When the chick gets killed halfway through the fuckin game, I was like, what the hell, did I not follow the right path or something.  I was really baffled.

but ff6 gets my vote as best game ever.  Even the graphics were great for a super nes game.

[CorwinB]

I would have to go with Chrono Trigger. The story is interesting, the presentation was incredible for its time (the music still sounds great, and thanks to 2D art the game hasn't aged too badly), the game plays very well, and the amount of replayability is insane (IIRC, there are 14 endings or so). A Nintendo DS remake was released last year.

[honestabe]

Whichever one has Sephiroth is my favorite

[Apollyon]

I would have to go with Chrono Trigger. The story is interesting, the presentation was incredible for its time (the music still sounds great, and thanks to 2D art the game hasn't aged too badly), the game plays very well, and the amount of replayability is insane (IIRC, there are 14 endings or so). A Nintendo DS remake was released last year.

I agree that Chrono Trigger is an excellent game, but I must nitpick. 14 endings isn't exactly replayability if you can see all of them in 2 run-throughs. If you want replayability, Ogre Battle had a ton of endings, as well as a lot of interesting mechanics. The game progresses differently depending on things like how many cities you discover, whether you have the Elite Group + Scrubs plan going on vs the Several Deep Groups plan. For example, if you run through the other armies with the Elite Group, you lose out on the "honorable" stat because you will just massacre anything that stands in your way.

If you're looking for a challenging game, play The 7th Saga, and have a ready supply of backup hardware on hand to replace the controllers that you will inevitably hurl against the wall in fits of overwhelming frustration.  Challenge is nice, but even an optimal amount of challenge does not make a good game; in fact, too much of it makes for an extremely annoying game.  FFVII struck what I took to be a good balance between challenge and accessibility, by reserving the very hardest part for side quests.  And as far as challenge goes, Emerald/Ruby WEAPON were approximately 6.02 x 10^23 times harder than anything in FFIV.

7th Saga wasn't a challenging game. It was a grind fest with the boss battles that resembled rock 'em, sock 'em robots more than any sort of actual boss battles. I remember my first boss battle in that game involved me in a punch/heal/punch/heal infinite war. It took me 45 minutes to 2-shot the boss, only because he stopped casting healing spells upon himself. The intro dungeon requires that you grind up at least 5 levels.

Emerald Weapon is easy. Just wear 2 materia, have 9999 hp, and max limit breaks on everyone at the start of the combat. EW will use the attack that does 1111 damage for each materia, which will trigger the Lucky 7s, taking off half of its life. Then you just unload all of the multiple hit limit breaks (Cloud's, Barret's, and Yuffie's have the most attacks per limit break, IIRC, although Cid is also usable) and it's dead. Ruby's a bit harder, but you can still just do the infinite KotR spam.

I voted for FF6. Considering the limitations (4 MB vs 1500 or so MB of space), it was an all-around better game almost every way. I feel FF6 is better even without considering the limitations, but some people like graphics or long cutscenes, and it's a lot closer due to the relative shortness of FF6.

FF6 has a far more awesome bad guy. Kefka becomes a god, kills 2 main NPCs, and destroys the world. Sephiroth doesn't really do all that much. He menaces the world with a meteor that's kinda slow (plot says that it's coming, then you spend 10 real life hours breeding chocobos for that stupid sidequest), and he kills the white mage (but only because Square didn't finish the revive quest in time).

FF6 has the better heroes. It doesn't have any true Main Hero like almost every other Square game since. Celes might be the closest to the main hero, but everyone gets their turn, except for the few randoms piled on. I didn't really think that Cait Sith, Yuffie, Vincent, Red XIII, or Cid got nearly enough plot time, considering how few heroes there are. Yuffie had the Wutai sidequest, but it's really not that impressive. Cait Sith is just sorta there, Vincent gets a little bit. Red XIII has the backstory and the cutscene of the statue of his father, but then he just disappears. Cid has the one space travel quick quest, and that's about it. Cloud sucks up most of the character development.

Celes falls in love. Terra adopts a family. Setzer gives you an airship. Twice. Locke finally resolves the accident that left the love of his life comatose. Shadow gets the dream sequences (easily missable, but still pretty good) that tie into other characters. Gau meets his father in an amusing scene. I realize that they are relatively short plot points, but I'm more than willing to give them a pass due to space and time limitations.

FF6 had the better random enemies. The only unique ones that I remember with any sort of from FF7 are the Midgar Zolom and the Harpy (only because you can get Aqualung super-early from them). I remember the Io (machine spider from Cyan's Dream, amazing Rage for Gau), Stray Cat (amazing Rage for Gau, although they fixed that bug in the Advance version), Ninjas (the bane of the Low Level Game), Master Tonberry (sorta a boss, but Step Mine is just that awesome), Hoovers (hidden dungeon that you access via getting eaten in battle?), Intangirs (tough to find almost-boss with a bunch of cool traits, although he sucks as a Rage), and Tyrannosaurs/Brachiosaurus (they cast Meteor and Ultima if you let them stick around?). Nothing is worse than fighting almost nothing but different kinds of soldier models that differ only in damage they can take and damage they can deal.

FF6 has more awesome equipment. A sword that ignores row, ignores evasion, auto crits, randomly casts a good spell for free, gives you good bonuses to all stats, gives you a 40% chance to evade everything that doesn't ignore evasion. A set of dice that can pump out giant piles of damage if you use a relic. A shield that absorbs elemental damage and negates the elemental damage it doesn't absorb. Another shield that gives 33% miss chance. A set of gear that is actually pretty awesome if you are an Imp.

FF6 had real differences between the characters mechanically. Every character had a unique ability that really defined that character. FF7 has different limit breaks, but they are almost all some variation on "multiple attacks or strong attack". Everything is also done via Materia, so you can't point at something like Enemy Skill as a unique ability, when everyone can get it. FF6 has: Throw (deal lots of damage, but break an item, and it ignores evasion and defense), Runic (not overwhelmingly useful, sure, but it's unique), Morph, Tools (unique items that have some interesting effects), Swordtech (really crappy, but 1 is usable for a while), Blitz (play Street Fighter in an RPG), Natural Magic (if you are playing a Natural Magic run through, it's worth mentioning), Rage (amazing, gets better in Low Level Games/Natural Magic Games/No Equipment Games), Gogo (Does everything, but poorly), Enemy Skill (very useful in Natural Magic Games).

If you include FF6 Advance, the characters even get unique "ultimate" items (nothing is more ultimate than Illumina), so FF7 ties with FF6 on that.

And last, but not least, FF6 doesn't include a stupid sidequest involving chocobo inbreeding for ultimate power.

[LordHomerCat]

Voted for FF6.  Game was and still is incredible.  I mean, the opera sequence?  Come on, chocobo racing has nothing on that.

[Smmenen]

Dragon Warrior 1?   

I really like Final Fantasy Legend for the original game boy.   

Zelda: Ocarina of Time was unreal. 

[A.-1.]

A couple times a year, I'll dust off my Super Nintendo and play FF6.  I still enjoy it and the graphics for the time were amazing.  It may not be my favorite game of all time, but it certainly gets my vote for best console rpg.

[TracerBullet]

Dragon Warrior 1?   

I really like Final Fantasy Legend for the original game boy.   

Zelda: Ocarina of Time was unreal. 

I just played DWs 1-2-3 again over the last couple months.  Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus Christ are they hard.  I had forgotten simply how much grinding there is.  And yet..... it was like a a visit to a purer, simpler time.  No real story line, no massive equipment charts.  Just a huge world to explore, and fun little quirks to discover.  Plus, enough thee's and thou's to make Beowulf look like a Spike Lee Joint.

[The Atog Lord]

Final Fantasy IV gets my vote.
And I agree with Steve. Final Fantasy Legend I, II, and III were the 3 best Gameboy games.

[Matt]

I haven't played any RPGs in forever, but I always loved Phantasy Star IV.

[smasher]

Ultima Exodus for NES is one of my favorites. It has a lot of challenging dungeons to explore. The party creation system is awesome. So much packed into one 8 bit game.

Secret of Mana for SNES blows away the competition for best RPG. I love the Zelda style battle system. Multiplayer in an RPG at the time of this release was pretty much unheard of and this one let up to 3 people play at once.

[CorwinB]

I haven't played any RPGs in forever, but I always loved Phantasy Star IV.

Phantasy Star 4 is another favorite of mine, together with Grandia 2 (Dreamcast). By the way, people who haven't enjoyed Phantasy Star 4 on the Genesis/Megadrive can get it on the Wii Virtual Console, on the Sega Genesis/Megadrive compilation for the Xbox 360, or on a similar compilation for the PSP, IIRC.

[Mr. Fantastic]

It's so hard to choose a favorite among so many great games.  I voted for VII although in hindsight I kinda wish I could take it back and show some love for VIII now that I see it only has 1 vote.  IX is also really underatted imho.  And though not an RPG in the traditional sense, Tactics probably has the best replayability of any PSX FF game.

I wonder if it is worth creating a thread to discuss your least favorite FF game?  My vote would be on X, a game with potential squarely ruined by the horrific, nasal, whiny voice actor who portrayed Tidus.  I've had an unopened copy of X-2 sitting in my closet for about 5 years now (I bought it before I started X).  Maybe I should crack it open though; I've heard Yuna gives another girl a back rub in one of the CG scenes...

[Sextiger]

For classic games, Suikoden II has aged very very well.  The sprite work in that game is amazing and I was sad to sell my last copy. ($115, ching ching) 

[covetousrat]

Hi Im a hardcore fan of FF. Played Final Fantasy 1,2,3 (Us titles) 7,8,9,10,10-2,12 & Tactics. Seriously its too hard to pick my favourite. Square Enix comes with the most innovative and creative technology for each of the game during its time. I like FF 12 for its new gameplay and graphics but I think that FF7 is the most unforgettable. Cloud Strife & Sephiroth. Who doesnt know Sephiroth outhere? And finally, the long awaited FF13 will be here soon but I don have a ps3 yet. T_T

[Nefarias]

And finally, the long awaited FF13 will be here soon but I don have a ps3 yet. T_T

It's coming out on XBOX 360 too.

[InfectedMushroom]

I really have to say Final Fantasy Tactics is my favorite game ever. It has so much replayability because of the amount of groups you can put together. There are so many hidden places and items in the game to keep you busy for many hours.

@DA
The Final Fantasy IV released in the states was what was considered the Easy Type version of the game. In Japan, they had the Hard Type, which adds a greater challenge and isn't a game you can beat under-leveled. FFIV is my sentimental favorite because of the great storyline. I loved the way the characters interacted and it was an emotional story.

Concerning non-Final Fantasy games, Chrono Trigger is a classic that I have played through so many times. Breath of Fire II is also up there for me, because it really deals so much with corruption in the church and how religion can brainwash people.

One last thing. Disc One of Final Fantasy VII can be summed up like this:
"Hey guys, you see a guy in a Black cape?"
"Nah, he just left."
"Damn"

5 minutes later:
"You see a guy in a Black cape?"
"Nope"
"Damn"

This repeats the whole disc while you try and find a ladder which is 5 pixels wide while Cloud's hair takes up 75% of your screen. Sorry, I thought FFVII was a great game, but not the be all, end all that people make it out to be.

:: Puts on flame resistant suit::

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

My favorite RPG is  Baldur's Gate.  

The D&D style gives you a lot more options when it comes to building your character and the other characters in your party, and results in many potential strategies in combat.  The ability to select your own alignment and play through the game accordingly (including choosing from multiple options in dialogue with the characters you encounter) actually lets you role play, instead of just moving around in a body with a pre-constructed personality (btw, you get to build your character's appearance as well).

The adjustable difficulty level is a big plus--people who want a challenge can play on Insane (monsters do double damage, so they can potentially 1-hit your casters), or those who want to stroll through the game can play on Normal, or even reduce difficulty to Novice (monsters do 1/2 damage) if they get frustrated with a certain fight [you can change difficulty in-game].

The re-playability is awesome because there is such a huge world to explore--your world map starts empty and then you discover new areas as you travel, most of which aren't even necessary to the main storyline but contain other quests/items/party members for you to discover.  Re-playability is also increased by the ability to select a different character class or alignment, as well as building completely different groups of party members.  There are also many quests in which you have to actually make decisions that affect the outcome.

I also prefer the real-time gameplay (with the ability to pause to issue commands) as opposed to turn based, which I find rather monotonous.

BG 2 and TOB were OK, but not nearly as good as the original since there weren't as many extra areas and side-quests.  My only problem with the original was that the level cap was way too low considering the amount of experience you could actually gain by doing extra quests (the game doesn't even require any grinding), but there are mods you can DL to fix this.  Which reminds me of another positive aspect, actually--there are a lot of mods you can dl for BG, which add additional features or quests if you get bored.

So, while the FF games are fun, I don't find them nearly as engaging because you are put under a lot more limitations in many areas; they can't really compare to the amount of freedom you get in a game like BG, which is a large part of what I think the RPG experience is all about.

[Necrologia]

I have to give the nod to Chrono Trigger, but FF6 takes a very close second.

Chrono Trigger has a wonderful battle system, and was the first RPG I ever really played that didn't have the infuriating random encounter ever x number of steps deal. It also gets points for having some of the greatest music from a video game ever. Schala's Theme, Corridors of Time, Sealed Door, etc. Heck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNUYwRnnMJs

FF6 is a little less lighthearted and has an amazing villain. No dual techs, but everyone having a unique ability still puts it heads and shoulders above most RPGs of the period. The story is great, and the characters all have way more backstory than average.

Both games are at the top of my list of console RPGs. I recently played through Chrono Trigger again, so maybe it's time for another FF6 playthrough.

Another series that I think deserves a nod is Mario RPG/Paper Mario. Excellent series that gets way too much flak for being "kiddy."

[Norm4eva]

When I was in high school I rented Chrono Trigger on my friend's account at the movie rental store down the street.  I was supposed to return it in 5 days.  According to the police report I kept it for 41.  My friend didn't really care but his dad was sort of pissed.

Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy V, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, those are probably my first picks in no particular order.  FFV's Job system is what kills me about that one, as you can make the most ridiculously synergized (or alternatively, entirely non-sensical) characters evar.  I don't know why I heart BG:DA as it's got one of the most annoying oversights/bugs in a video game in a hundred years, but somehow it calls me back time and again.

[Mr. Fantastic]

This repeats the whole disc while you try and find a ladder which is 5 pixels wide while Cloud's hair takes up 75% of your screen.

Seriously, this is one of my only biting criticisms of the game.  Well, other than the ending (which I won't spoil for the uninitiated except to say that I found it way too short and a big letdown).

Have you guys seen Advent Children?  What a disappointing offering.  I mean, really, I've seen Saturday morning cartoons with more of a plot.

[DubDub]

I'm still currently the only one to have voted for VIII.  FF8 is my favorite, but I can't construct an argument to convince you it's the best.  I'm basically choosing between FF8, FFX, and then some randoms that I played: SaGa Frontier II, Quest 64, etc.

Things I liked:
Good music.
Airships (Gardens, Ragnarok).
Junction system and Guardian Forces.  The Devil, a giant Tank and "Doomtrain"?  Yes please.
Limit Breaks.
The card game ("Triple Triad").
Gunblades.
CGI cutscenes.
Most of the characters.
Fighting a T-Rex, on disc 1.

I'm not going to claim that it's the best, and I'm not going to list the things I didn't like, but FF8 is my favorite.

[Diakonov]

Dragon Warrior 1?   

I really like Final Fantasy Legend for the original game boy.   

Zelda: Ocarina of Time was unreal. 

I just played DWs 1-2-3 again over the last couple months.  Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus Christ are they hard.  I had forgotten simply how much grinding there is.  And yet..... it was like a a visit to a purer, simpler time.  No real story line, no massive equipment charts.  Just a huge world to explore, and fun little quirks to discover.  Plus, enough thee's and thou's to make Beowulf look like a Spike Lee Joint.

Dragon Warrior 1 was the first RPG I had ever finished, and I did it in 7th grade.  Everything has seemed a little bit easy after that.  Fantastic game...makes me very nostalgic to think about it.   

The fact that it wasn't linear was actually pretty badass in retrospect.  Sometimes before I'd turn it off, I'd start walking South and see how far I could get by Running Away, just to try and get a glimpse of some of the awesome, terrifying monsters lurking down there.

Running out of torches when I was deep in the caves was one of the scariest things that I can remember.

[Bill Copes]

Did anyone ever beat a Metal Slime in Dragon Warrior 1?

[TopSecret]

After I killed the Midgar Serpent the first time I saw him without having actively leveled up at any point, I kind of stopped playing single player RPG's.

I'm not big on having favorites. That said, I didn't notice Lufia II for the SNES mentioned in this thread.
When I was in Elementary (or Middle School, I can't remember) it was the absolute bomb.
There is just so much pwning to do in that game, between leveling up, finding the best armor, puzzles, side-quests, and secret challenges.
The design of the graphics were pretty sweet and the music rocked, too. The only thing I could nit pick about it is the B plot and that weird graphics glitch that happened on my Super Nintendo, which apparently was wide spread among other US versions.

Also, I didn't see anyone mention Earthbound (called Mother 2 in Japan) for the SNES. There is no explaining this game. It must be played to be understood.
I've heard the sequel, Mother 3 for Gameboy Advance (not released in the US), is good, too. (An Earthbound fan site actually made a translated version for people to download.)

[Joblin Velder]

Planescape: Torment wins.

[TracerBullet]

Dragon Warrior 1 was the first RPG I had ever finished, and I did it in 7th grade.  Everything has seemed a little bit easy after that.  Fantastic game...makes me very nostalgic to think about it.   

The fact that it wasn't linear was actually pretty badass in retrospect.  Sometimes before I'd turn it off, I'd start walking South and see how far I could get by Running Away, just to try and get a glimpse of some of the awesome, terrifying monsters lurking down there.

Running out of torches when I was deep in the caves was one of the scariest things that I can remember.

You should play DW 2 then (you can find it on an emulator; it's also pretty cheap to buy the cartridge, as they used to give out a copy of the game with a Nintendo Power subscription).  The game gets significantly larger (the original DW1 world is just an explorable island in the game), and it keeps the non-linear exploration (with all kinds of fun little goodies).


Only difficulty would be resisting the urge to look shit up online when you're stuck.  That's an experience that younger children will never have; kinda makes me sad.  NOBODY I knew had a strategy guide for an RPG during those NES/SNES days.  It really made the frustration level go up, but the corresponding sense of accomplishment was much higher.  I'll never forget the night I first figured out how to get through the Cave to the final Orb in Dragon Warrior 3 - I was 10, it was a late night after Halloween (Friday, and my parents decided we didn't have a curfew), and I finally figured out that I had to choose to drop through the floor to go farther.  1am and I can remember dancing in my basement.  Good times.

[Demonic Attorney]

7th Saga wasn't a challenging game. It was a grind fest with the boss battles that resembled rock 'em, sock 'em robots more than any sort of actual boss battles. I remember my first boss battle in that game involved me in a punch/heal/punch/heal infinite war. It took me 45 minutes to 2-shot the boss, only because he stopped casting healing spells upon himself. The intro dungeon requires that you grind up at least 5 levels.

I think we've had this conversation in #irc before.  If that's the strategy you use, you haven't finished the game because an event in the story about 3/4 of the way through prevents you from relying on it.  I won't spoil the game for anyone interested in it (or for you, if you're interested in playing farther along), but once this event happens, there's no way to backtrack, the enemies make a quantum leap in power, and unless you're able to beat them without the erstwhile Water Rune healing strategy, you won't be able to advance the game.

In addition, most random encounters (especially those at the beginning of new areas, where the monsters are stronger than you're used to) present a very real risk of you losing.  There are no save points in dungeons, so this element makes for a very frustrating experience.  Some enemies, if they agility buff themselves, will literally dodge every single attack some party combinations in the game can access.  Lastly, the other apprentices are almost invariably stronger than you and unless you know the secret to going into battle against them with a full party, are almost impossible to defeat.  Under most circumstances, you have no warning before they attack you, so again, there's a very real risk of just randomly dying.