U/r Landstill

[Bera]

Hello,

I've been playing U/r landstill for about a month now and absolutely love this deck, fire and ice has to be one of the greatest cards in the format right now. My meta consists of mostly fish/hate decks with a handful of tez decks, there are so few tez lists floating around that null rod isn't even on my 76 card list. I'm looking for some suggestions to improve my list and see if there are any cards I should be running as I feel the deck could use something to make itself better but can't put my finger on it, possibly a third crucible.

 Here is my list:

Maindeck:

Mana

Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Black Lotus
4 Fetch
3 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Barbarian Ring
1 LOA

Spells

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Spell Pierce
3 Fire/Ice
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Time Walk

Artifacts

2 Crucible of Worlds

Creature

1 Gorilla Shaman

Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sower of Temptation
1 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Fire and Ice
3 Ravenous Trap

I've piloted this list 3-1 in a bazaar tournament and unfortunately, we had a small amount of people which resulted in us going to top four and I didn't make the cut due to tiebreakers, my loss was to vault/key, we had a close game one but I pretty much threw game 2 away. I have pretty good results against the players in my local area, tough / 50/50 MUs include: Stax, Tezz (This is partially due to inexperience) not sure how I would do against a workshop aggro deck either.


Let me know what can be done to improve, I was thinking 2 conclaves or 2 mutavaults or maybe something repeal/top related although that might not work out well with standstill. I've also considered splashing black for duress and possibly dark blast

Edit: I'm thinking of throwing 3-4 Meditates and possibly a misdirection and two commandeers into the mix, would such a thing be workable in the deck? I'd -1 wasteland -1 hurkyl's recall -1 fire ice -1 gorilla shaman -3 spell pierce to make the additions. I was thinking about ways to make the stax match insane and meditate came to mind, thoughts?

[TheJesus]

Check this link for some ideas:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37514.msg522213#msg522213

You want null rod as it is a staple for landstill. You should be slowing and controlling the game. You should probably cut the ruby in that case as well as brainstorm and merchant scroll since you aren't trying to find anything. Misdirection's are incredible in this deck. Consider running 1-3 depending on the meta. They stop removal and will usually net you the opponent's recall during the game. Spell Pierce is an intriguing addition to the deck. It's not really a hard counter, but cheaper than Mana Leak.

Be aware that you auto-lose to dredge. The traps might help but the match will never be 50:50 even using all 15 sideboard slots.

Chain of vapor is probably the best bounce spell for this deck. You can't afford something like hurkyl's which will be dead against some decks. Echoing Truth and others are good to splash to avoid chalice on 1, though.

Commandeer wasn't very good for me ever.

I was actually thinking about playing this again, but I worry about all the creatures. I would probably do something like this:

5 Fetch
4 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Library of Alexandria

Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Fire/Ice
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Chain of Vapor

Artifacts
1Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Null Rod
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Rack and Ruin
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Crucible of Worlds

I left the traps in the SB as I haven't really tested them. You auto lose to dredge, anyway, so the slots are better to shore up you other match-ups. Something like 2-3 Pyroclasm, 1 more REB, and another anti-artifact would be better. 

I don't know about 23 lands. Sometimes I drop the sapphire for a land or add the ruby for a fetch.

Mattiuzzo has written a lot about the concept as well as playing landstill. Do a search about U/R landstill to read about the concept and theory behind the deck.

[Bera]

Thanks for the link!

Null rod is a very dead card in my meta right now seeing as how a majority of artifacts being ran right now are on color moxen/lotus and null rod itself, there's about one tezz player if that who will play weekly. I'll toss rod in when I go to a big tournament but right now I'm using the slots to metagame.

I'm not to big on misdirection because the only two plays it really makes right now in my meta are steal ancestral or make sure a spell resolves. They are nice plays but I'd rather just make sure my spell resolved/counter more spells with spell pierce, if I were to run MisD, it would be after pierce #4

Chain's not bad but right now I think echoing truth is just infinitely better but neither of them can bounce inkwell which is an issue and why I main the other two bounce spells.

Merchant scroll is in the list to get fire/ice, a counter, ancestral or one of the bounce spells depending on the situation.

Dredge definitely has the odds against me but it's winnable. Ravenous trap is good against dredge but it's also the nuts after my opponent plays gifts or intuition.

[OmniStrife_101]

Hi there! I was a long time Landstill player myself.

I remember Erik suggesting the use of Vendillion Clique, which actually screws up combo player's hands.

[the boogie man]

I think that spellstutter sprite is a really good fit for this deck, seeing how light on threats it is. it is also pretty awesome card advantage. Then the factories could be changed to mutavault. that could potentially make spellstutter a lot better. I also tend to like gorilla shaman. Vendilllion clique could also be used, being instant speed and either card selection or disruption.

What is your plan against goyf? chain of vapor could be used against you, but repeal would do the trick and give you card advantage.

I would play bera's list with these changes:

-4 factory
-1 hurkyl's
-1 echoing truth
-1 stifle
-2 mana leak

+4 mutavault
+4 sprite
+1 repeal

[Bera]

I tested with sprites but ended up liking mana leak more. Mutavault and sprite seems interesting, I may have to check that out.

The gorilla shaman was originally a clique but I prefer shaman.

Game one the goyf plan is to prevent it from resolving, bounce it and counter it again, get it early with fire or block it with crucible/factory.

Game two, I hope to draw a control magic effect and odds are that's the tempo swing that wins the game.

I have been wanting to play repeal a lot, it's my 2nd favorite card right now but I think echoing truth might be better in this particular deck as repeal shines the most with top.

[the boogie man]

I think that repeal will do what you want usually and draw you a card. What would you need to bounce that costs more than 2 that rebuild won't catch? it seems the card advantage would be more useful than randomly being able to neuter etw.

Have you tested spell snare in spell pierces slot? It counters confidant and goyf, two cards that seem to be bad news for you.

[Bera]

I think that repeal will do what you want usually and draw you a card. What would you need to bounce that costs more than 2 that rebuild won't catch? it seems the card advantage would be more useful than randomly being able to neuter etw.

Have you tested spell snare in spell pierces slot? It counters confidant and goyf, two cards that seem to be bad news for you.

I tested with daze and spell snare, I would probably run daze before I ran spell snare. I favor spell pierce because it will win me counter wars and it has the ability to counter many more spells, a lot of the time, spell pierce is a gutteral response but it is amazing especially with wastelands. Mana leak counters whatever pierce can't and the only creatures I really have issues with are goyf and grunt, goyf being the main problem since it comes down out of fire/ice range unless they played a nonfetch.

I might give repeal a shot but the main reason I think ET is a better addition in this deck is the fact that it's a 2 mana bounce when repeal is mana intensive if you're looking to bounce something higher than 2cmc. It's an interesting card and I'll definitely test with a few copies.

[SadDubs]

Someone said earlier that chain of vapor was much better than hurkyl's recall, but chain of vapor can't deal with inkwell leviathon. How can landstill deal with inkwell without losing too much consistency? Also, any fish deck with tarmogoyf is pretty much an auto lose for you; you can't burn him, and without spellsnare, you can't really counter him and keep up with countering the other threats of the aggro player's deck. I tested landstill with spellsnare, and even then fish and hate decks playing goyf just pound you. These are the two biggest issues with landstill right now, so how can we all adress them?

[Bera]

Someone said earlier that chain of vapor was much better than hurkyl's recall, but chain of vapor can't deal with inkwell leviathon. How can landstill deal with inkwell without losing too much consistency? Also, any fish deck with tarmogoyf is pretty much an auto lose for you; you can't burn him, and without spellsnare, you can't really counter him and keep up with countering the other threats of the aggro player's deck. I tested landstill with spellsnare, and even then fish and hate decks playing goyf just pound you. These are the two biggest issues with landstill right now, so how can we all adress them?

Rebuild deals with robots nicely and can't be misdirected. Goyf is a problem in game 1 and if you aren't maining control magic effects, the solution is to bounce him and counter him again. What is causing you to lose against fish and hate decks? I seem to be having very good results against them, are you running fire/ice?

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

heres what i did quite well with and ended up loosing to noble fish in semi-finals to bad luck....its a solid list and wud run it exactly again...only problem is that oath is so big now that it has a tough match vs it. But heres the link to see the list

http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1157

[scifiantihero]

I used to play this deck for a long time, glad to see someone having some success!

If you're facing a lot of wastelands (you mentioned allot of fish/ hate decks):  Tefero's Response is pretty much the greatest thing ever.  That card never disappointed me, especially along side stifle.

[Bera]

I was thinking about response but my matchup against that type of deck is already pretty good.

Alright so I dropped echoing truth, moved hurkyl's recall to the sideboard and cut a spell pierce for 3 repeals and love it. I've been dominated a few times by extirpate and apparently gorilla shaman and barbarian ring don't count as enough back up win conditions (gorilla really isn't but whatever) I'm thinking of cutting the other two pierces and one mana leak for spellstutter sprites and cutting 3 facories and a wasteland for four mutavault. I'm not really sure how crippled I would be without spell pierce but I don't usually need turn 1 double counter backup.

There's no need to double post. You can use the "Modify" button. Marske

[beder]

Against aggro decks, given than on game 2 they should side out their null rod against you, and given that you don't play null rod, I think engeenered explosive may be an interesting option.
It is pretty good at killing all those 2CC permanents that could be annoying (goyf, dark conf, oath, grunt, ...)

[SadDubs]

I find that trying to fight fish decks in landstill is futile. Game 1, they have pridemages and goyfs, which just ruin you. Not to mention the unblockable selkies they will be flinging at you. All you have vs them game on is bounce, fire and ice, and 8-11 counters. I have tested a bit vs fish, and they win every time. Post sideboard it's still just as hard. They run artifact hate and creature removal. Unless you dedicate seven creature hate cards in your sideboard, you will lose every time, and then that means you'll be more unprepared for the combo and stax matchups. The fact that you run spell pierce, rather than spell snare, makes it even harder for constant control. If they resolve one goyf, you're done.

Sure, you can bounce then counter them, but thats a two for one you can't afford to do; landstill NEEDS card advantage to survive. I also find that much of your bounce will be hurkyl's recall and rebuild because you need a constant answer to inkwell. That said, should landstill give up trying to win the aggro matchup to focus on more winnable matchups? And if you have a creature heavy meta, should you even run landstill? I ask these questions only because I love landstill and want to find a way of making it top tier again. I've tryed out vendilion clques against tezzeret, and they seem pretty phenominal so far. Though I have yet to test them against any thing else. Also, has anyone tested landstill against oath? Is it a good or bad matchup?

Formatted your post a bit, please try to use paragraph's in the future, they make it easier to read. Marske

[Bera]

EE is interesting but I think sowering their guy is a more powerful play.

I'm suprised I'm hearing about how tough all of the fish matchups are, I haven't lost to guw fish yet, fire and ice is just such a house against that deck. I'm thinking I might just main sower over repeal, I haven't really found a situation where repeal is better yet in this deck.

[MaxxMatt]

EE is interesting but I think sowering their guy is a more powerful play.

You can't easily Sower their entire board while E.E. can wipe sway their weenies with a single shot.
After that process, thieving their critters will be safer. I'm sure combining these two spells will produce a more persistent effect

heres what i did quite well with and ended up loosing to noble fish in semi-finals to bad luck....its a solid list and wud run it exactly again...only problem is that oath is so big now that it has a tough match vs it.

I think Oath can't be Landstill worst problem. You can buy tempo with almost any cards between maindeck and sideboard.
Even a quickly resolved Oath can be stiffled & bounced back. Your counter wall is always useful because your denial plan will torment his mana since first turn. You can Stifle lands, eat mana with Wastelands & Shaman, Titan their survived duals and Tutor for the needed answer of choice. Sideboard will kill their Krosan Reclamation winning routine while additional bouncers and rebs will help youbuy time and improve your board position.
Aside Inkwell, other fatties can be tapped by F/I buying you more cards & turns.

I'm not sure if a non.Pierce.Landstill build will perform as well as I'm describing this matchup, but being strong Turn1 AND Turn2 against Oath is more than an half on the stairway to victory.

If you're facing a lot of wastelands (you mentioned allot of fish/ hate decks):  Tefero's Response is pretty much the greatest thing ever.  That card never disappointed me, especially along side stifle.

Teferi's Response cc will interact negatively with all the other broken 2cc spells of the deck. Flooding your deck with a pletora of CRUCIAL 2cc spells will clunk your first turn as much as your second. I'm preferring, from a strategical and tactical point of view, to balance 1cc and 2cc spells, especially when I'm not playing a deck with an accelerated mana base. You rely only on Sapphire and Lotus to fire a first turn 2cc spell: IMHO it is not enough to guarantee you the correct climax spell sequence. Think about leaving you open for TResponse, Drain while needing to proactively resolve Rods & Standstill. These slots will occupy almost the same play turns, so the smoother is your spells curve, the more linear will be resolve more crucial spells at once.

Maindeck:
Mana
...
Mox Ruby
...
Spells
...
4 Mana Leak

IMHO, playing a fully accelerated mana base will exclude NRods from maindeck, letting you play MLeaks.
On the other hand, Drains & Leaks & Rods will be redundant. You won't be able to optimize a first turn Leak because of the lack of Moxen due to the Rods presence. Drain and Leaks will occupy the second turn, without improving the number of contemporary protections available.

Turn 1 --> Shaman, Stifle & Pierce
Turn 2 --> Drains, Rod & Standstill
Turn 3 --> Miscellaneous of needs

From my point of view, this is a more armonical standard development for your game plan.

Ichorid sideboarding strategy

If your grave hate is directed only towards Ichorid, I suggest you Leyline of Singularity & Ravenous Trap
The first one will affect all his board unabling them to attack with critters
The latter will seal the game removing from the game pesky Bazaars & discard effects
IMHO, without the need to Tinker for Crypts against Oath/TPS/Tezz or Needling Fish critters or Staxs creatures, in a UR build, LoSingularity+RTrap will be more efficient and unexpected.
 

This is my current test list.

(11) - Protections
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce

(15) - Board control
3 Fire/Ice
3 Null Rod
3 Stifle
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall

(3) - Tutors
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

(7) - Drawers
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk

(24) - Mana
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
 
(15) - Sideboard
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
2 Ingot Chewer

(15) - Sideboard 2
4 Leyline of Singularity
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Echoing Truth

[Bera]

I really like the factory/tinker synergy in that list, I think I'll take a similar version of your list to an upcoming Lotus tournament. I might drop null rods for repeals or mana leaks and another crucible if tinker isn't playable for local tournaments where the card is just dead, is tinker/titan worth running without null rods?

I'm not a leyline fan currently as every dredge deck has an out to enchantment based hate. I'd say my favorite yard hate cards at the moment are relic and trap as only mana lists can deal with relic and only therapy can deal with trap.

Here's my take on that list:

Mana 24

4 Fetch
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Factory
1 Strip Mine
3 Island
1 LOA
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Lotus
1 Sapphire

Creatures 4

2 Sower of Temptation
1 Sundering Titan
1 Vendilion Clique

Spells 33

4 Standstill
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
3 Fire/Ice
3 Null Rod
1 Tinker
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Rebuild

Sideboard
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Repeal
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Fire/Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall

I've cut the tinker/titan, null rods, 2 spell pierce, 1 fire/ice, 1 factory and clique from my list and added 3 Ophidian, 1 Gorilla Shaman, 1 Rack and Ruin, 3 Mana Leak 1 Crucible of Worlds and a Mutavault.

Null Rod is an amazing card but it just doesn't shine in this area as it does in other places, Right now I'd much rather play Rack and Ruin as it deals with Stax. Mutavault is in the list for added extirpate resilience, Ophidian is just amazing especially when you have a standstill out as they have to break it asap or be buried even more in card advantage, the 3 toughness is also insane. Shaman might become a Rack and ruin but I like the 1/1 split. Added a 2nd crucible as I'm no longer running Tinker.

[MaxxMatt]

I really like the factory/tinker synergy in that list, I think I'll take a similar version of your list to an upcoming Lotus tournament. I might drop null rods for repeals or mana leaks and another crucible if tinker isn't playable for local tournaments where the card is just dead, is tinker/titan worth running without null rods?

Talking about Ur.Landstill, I'm supporting denial plan rather than other hybrid strategies, for sure.
You told us Rods are dead cards in your metagame because

Null rod is a very dead card in my meta right now seeing as how a majority of artifacts being ran right now are on color moxen/lotus and null rod itself, there's about one tezz player if that who will play weekly. I'll toss rod in when I go to a big tournament but right now I'm using the slots to metagame.

Even in the described situation I cannot opt for any other card to maindeck playing a deck such like Landstill.
From your description, you are facing a large variety of Fish.dec and some powered deck such as Tezz o Stacker.
While they are going to abuse of Rods against other players but not you, you have an edge over them too. Let me articulate.

Fish will see Mishra's ability shut up as much as you, but you have a stronger mana base, more protections and you'll prevent them from sideboarding in Jitte without any additional mumbling. CoW will power up your recurring denial plan that would easily seal the game thanks to Shaman eating their artifacts and Titan killing their few lands.
You slow down the game. You are the controller and no game can be controlled for a lot of time if opponent is plenty of mana and playable resources. Sacrificing a little bit of 1for1 answers ( like Repeals ), you'll mantain an edge over opponents killing their mana with 1forMany tools ( Shaman, Rods, GlobalBouncers, Titan ) enabling long term plan because of counterspells directed to their few playable threats and additional drawers.

Against Tezz and Stacker, you'll shut up ( with your Rods COUPLED with the other tools ) half of their decks, too.

I cannot see you ride the winning train without a stable and coerent denial plan.
Look at this sinergy: because of Rods, you can control the board with Spell Pierce and Wastelands in a crucial way. They often cannot pay for Pierce and you can both Waste and Pierce them with a single mana open, maybe forcing them into tactical errors because of mana denial pressure.

Rods & Shaman aren't redundant at all. You are free to think about Shaman being sufficient at controlling the board but it is not true at all. While Shaman can eat almost anything decent and playable in modern Vintage, it can't prevent opponents from using resolving artifact at least one time ( or at worst, more than one time, putting into stack a large range of abilities ). Coupling Rods with Shamans you are completely controlling half of their deck preventing them from using artifact both for mana and for winnings.

Without Rods, not only Titan can't be so efficient as you suspect, but your entire deck will be watered down a lot, losing more than gaining.
Put opponents the needed pressure with 1.for.many threats and you'll be able to win with Landstill, too.

I'm not a leyline fan currently as every dredge deck has an out to enchantment based hate. I'd say my favorite yard hate cards at the moment are relic and trap as only mana lists can deal with relic and only therapy can deal with trap.

Aren't you siding out counterspells against Ichorid, don't you?

For reference: -4 Standstill, -3 Rods, +4 LeylineofSingularity, +3 Ravenous Trap are enough to guarantee an overwhelming victory. You can counter their own discard & disenchant effects with ease; traps and leyline, if protected are pretty much game over against Ichorid.

Here's my take on that list:
Mana 24
...
1 Barbarian Ring
...
Creatures 4
...
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Vendilion Clique
...
Spells 33
Sideboard
 

IMHO, BRing is strong but too slow and without the ability to tutor for it during the game.
Vendilon Clique is a strong "?!?!?"

I've cut the tinker/titan, null rods, 2 spell pierce, 1 fire/ice, 1 factory and clique from my list and added 3 Ophidian, 1 Gorilla Shaman, 1 Rack and Ruin, 3 Mana Leak 1 Crucible of Worlds and a Mutavault. Null Rod is an amazing card but it just doesn't shine in this area as it does in other places, Right now I'd much rather play Rack and Ruin as it deals with Stax. Mutavault is in the list for added extirpate resilience, Ophidian is just amazing especially when you have a standstill out as they have to break it asap or be buried even more in card advantage, the 3 toughness is also insane. Shaman might become a Rack and ruin but I like the 1/1 split. Added a 2nd crucible as I'm no longer running Tinker.

from opponents points of view, Ophidian & Standstill without Rods and taken out crucial business spells means : "I'll break you creepy enchantment during your own EoT forcing you to discard additional cards while, without a good denial plan, I'm going to resolve threats for sure and laugh at your blue frightened little snake"

Enjoy!
MM

[Bera]

Rod against my local fish decks is terrible, it shuts off 1-3 mox and lotus in addition to that, it also shuts off my mox and my lotus and I'll also have 2 other dead cards in my deck (The other two Null Rod), which means, after I drop null rod, I have four dead draws in my deck assuming I didn't already play mox/lotus when my opponent has 5-7 dead draws in their deck, I'd rather stop threats than shut off the same amount of cards in our deck.

 If I run mana leak, I have a solid counterspell against the main problems I have in my meta (Goyf/Grunt) and have better odds of drawing a counterspell off standstill, spell pierce is a great card but instead of going out of my way to stop their artifact mana with null rod I'd rather just pierce their mox.

 If Tez/TPS/workshop aggro was played in my meta, I would run null rod, but it isn't.

I aggree with your leyline comment but I'd say in the end it all comes down to personal preference, I prefer trap because people will cast gifts or what not and throw their combo pieces away.

BRing is in there as another win condition, board control and more extirpate resilience. Landstill isn't really a deck that tutors, it draws into it's threats.

I don't really understand your vendilion clique comment.

Breaking standstill during my own EoT is just as effective as breaking it when I don't have snake out. Standstill or not, Ophidian is still extremely effective and needs to be dealt with.

[SadDubs]

I beleive that a big mistake landstill players make is siding out landstill. When you have strong enough ichorid hate, then use standstill to deck them. I have seen someone board in things like ingot chewer, leyline of the void, and pyroclasm. It was all diverse hate that happened to hate ichorid as well. He stalled long enough with chewers and pyroclasms, while the ichroid player kept on dredging. At that point he just cracked his own landstill, made his opponent dredge, then cast another landstill. He cracked the second one and the guy decked himself.

[waikiki]

Hi Guys,

Im totally new to vintage and I found the landstill thread to be pretty interesting. Since I play legacy alot I have acces to all the legacy staples.

Ive been tinkering between this deck, a countertop deck (article I saw matt write about), ANT and Oath.

This is the list I made up:

// Lands
    4  Wasteland
    2  Tropical Island
    1  Mishra's Factory (3)
    2  Volcanic Island
    3  Scalding Tarn
    2  Polluted Delta
    1  Faerie Conclave
    1  Mishra's Factory (1)
    1  Mishra's Factory (4)
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Library of Alexandria
    3  Snow-Covered Island

// Creatures
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Misdirection
    1  Cunning Wish
    3  Stifle
    3  Null Rod
    1  Merchant Scroll
    2  Fire/Ice
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    4  Force of Will
    1  Black Lotus
    4  Standstill
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Rebuild
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Brainstorm
    3  Spell Pierce

I do not have any knowledge about the format so If im missing any staples that should be in here please tell me why I need them and what cards I totally don't need (and why)

I started with a form of dreadstill but quickly notices alot of decks play maindeck arti bounce. So that would pretty much suck for the nought. So i've choses tarmogoyf as a quick kill. Thoughts about that?

Hopefully I'll get some more insight on the format this way.

Thnx in advance!

[Bera]

I'd cut the misdirection and cunning wish for two crucibles, that card wins games.

Tarmogoyf is pretty good, he can block other goyfs and grunts which is nice. You might want to consider adding tinker and sundering titan or inkwell seeing as how you're running null rods, tinkers aren't hard to come by so it should be fairly easy to get those cards.

[waikiki]

Ye obtaining the cheaper cards are no problem for me. I got an edh sharuum deck which use to run tinker.

What would you suggest to cut for tinker/robot. Right now I have -1 cunning wish + 1 crucible.
Is 4 tarmogoyf too much or am I able to cut one?

[Bera]

You run 25 mana sources, I would cut a fetch and a pierce or I would cut a fetch and go up to 61 cards. You could cut emerald instead of a fetch, null rod would shut down less mana but you would have one less thing to sac for tinker.

[waikiki]

And what exactly are the advantages of having a tinker/robot in your deck. Its not that frequint we could use it fast. Is it any better then just resolving goyf and gaining alot of CA with standstill?

[shroomy2dope]

sorry i'm not a landstill player but it seems interesting. one thing came to mind though while reading.why not meditate? wouldn't that work well with standstill and land effects? or does missing the land drop set you back too much? sorry for the potentially dumb question, but curiosity got the better of me.

[Shean]

sorry i'm not a landstill player but it seems interesting. one thing came to mind though while reading.why not meditate? wouldn't that work well with standstill and land effects? or does missing the land drop set you back too much? sorry for the potentially dumb question, but curiosity got the better of me.

Casting Meditate will break the Standstill and cause your opponent to draw 3 cards, then you draw 4 cards and skip your next turn.  Sure you draw 4 cards, but you just broke your own Stanstill (giving them a draw 3) and gave them two turns in a row.

[TheJesus]

I beleive that a big mistake landstill players make is siding out landstill. When you have strong enough ichorid hate, then use standstill to deck them. I have seen someone board in things like ingot chewer, leyline of the void, and pyroclasm. It was all diverse hate that happened to hate ichorid as well. He stalled long enough with chewers and pyroclasms, while the ichroid player kept on dredging. At that point he just cracked his own landstill, made his opponent dredge, then cast another landstill. He cracked the second one and the guy decked himself.

This is the plan I used before there were some other options.  Ideally landstill doesn't want to SB 4 or more cards. Your deck should be tuned to go 50:50 with the field. SB just gives you a few silver bullets to get the SB games over the 50 percent mark. That's how the concept works.

It's just that Dredge broke that. I don't think throwing 8 pieces or dredge hate in your sb is going to get you a top 8. You'll end up dropping matches to other decks that you should have had a favorable match up.

If you are sitting with open mana then you are winning the game. Landstill is a lot like stax--you stop your opponent from being able to do anything with superior counters and mana denial. Usually I won't even activate a factory if I can't cast EVERY card in my hand. That's the point you want to get to. That's why you only run 1 crucible. You only need it late game and you will get down to the last 20 or so cards if your opponent doesn't scoop to you.

Tinker, tutors, and random creatures are going to be stuck in your hand. Also Tinker and Mystical tutor cost you card advantage. This is probably why you are losing games to Fish.  That match up isn't that bad.  They really have to get a nuts hand with 2 FOW and a Goyf to put any pressure on you.  Relic of the Pro Gamer (I'm borrowing this term, Twaun) and a control magic effect is enough to win, unless you have a bunch of chaff instead of counter spells.

That is why Spell Snare is probably better. It stops a lot of the threats you are worried about: Spheres, Fish creatures, Timevault, Oath, D. Tutor, Mana Drain.  I would definitely test Spell Pierce but losing the ability to stop 2cc creatures is a huge disadvantage. I never ran more than 3 and usually only 2 because I never wanted to see both in hand.

Last thing on tinker. Adding a Hurkyl's Recall for Inkwell or whatever is a bad plan. If you let them oath or tinker a huge shourded creature then you lost. Adding potentially dead cards to "fix" your mistake of not having a counter spell is not the way to go. If they turn 1 tinker, do you really think you can find a 1 of in your deck to bounce it? Stopping a tinker or oath is much less difficult than battling something like Control Slaver or MUD where they are throwing huge artifacts into play every turn. Look to your main deck. Maybe you should have mulliganed.

[Bera]

I've shifted my list around a bit and love ophidian, I've also upped my sower count which is nice, I've cut my stifles and moved them to the sideboard in favor of spell pierce, not sure if this is the right choice but stifle has been underwhelming lately. I'm considering a green splash for goyf and maybe ohran viper, not sure on the whole GG in the mana cost.