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Author Topic: [Free Article] The 2010 Guide To Vintage  (Read 12610 times)
BruiZar
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2009, 07:48:26 am »

i've heard this same argument for sadistic sacrement too. but with tezz, I can let that resolve and win with bobs still.
Assuming Extract for 3, I take Vault, Robot, Will.  Now, I run 30+ gobs, you have 4 Bob.  You also have to assume that a fair amount of the time, you lost those 3 cards to a 5/3.  Confidence in your ability to race is not high.

I was just gonna say good luck countering 30 goblins.
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2009, 10:24:06 pm »

Quote
i've heard this same argument for sadistic sacrement too. but with tezz, I can let that resolve and win with bobs still. you would have to have at least two to truly present a threat.

I'll admit I haven't tested this particular tactic with Goblins, but I think a different logic applies.  Staring down a SadSacrament from either an opposing Tez or Ritual-Tendrils player isn't that bad because you can use the card advantage to combo out or out-control them and slow-roll with Bobs.

Against Goblins I'd expect this would be much worse.  You probably won't live long enough to leverage any advantage, Bob will be under assault either due to removal or low life.  Even if you manage to assemble vault/key, I'd imagine there will be a large number of times where you're facing a board that (even with infinite turns) your deck won't be able to clear enough room for Bob to deal 20 damage.

In short, I see this as a strong line of plays by Gobbos and I see Gobbos as a good non-blue/non-dredge metagame possibility.  I'd be particularly interested in seeing if versions could develop to leverage ancient tomb towards null rods and earwig squads.
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« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2010, 02:00:39 pm »

This is similar to the article I just wrote for Legacy.   This is your guide to 2010 Vintage.

Click it.  Seriously.  Take a look.  It's free.  It wont cost you anything but your time.

Then, send this to your friends, or your enemies.   So long as you want them to get into Vintage.   
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Doomsday
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« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2010, 03:42:57 pm »

Nice, thanks.  New SGC policy regarding premium articles?
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« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2010, 04:37:47 pm »

I understand that you wanted to make this article easy to read, and useful for new/returning players, but I feel that sometimes you didn't really give enough information/analysis for this purpose.  

For example, about BR Stax you say,
Quote from: Smmenen
This is my favorite variant. It’s the most consistent and synergistic.
But you don't explain why.  This statement is of little use if readers aren't able to infer your thought process in making this evaluation.

Similarly, you say that Dragon makes an infinite loop, but you don't explain how that loop works.  This is, of course, common knowledge for most Vintage players, but might very well not be known by someone new to the format, nor do all players have the requisite knowledge of the rules to look up the oracle text of the cards and figure this out for themselves.

When talking about weaknesses, you focus on specific cards rather than on match-ups, and I'm not sure that this is really the best approach for understanding the problems decks face.  I find this approach particularly surprising, since you've frequently stressed the fact that decks should be evaluated in terms of how they interact with other decks in the metagame.  If the metagame is so important, don't you think it would be beneficial to tell new players about it? (I realize that this article is about "the metagame," but you present the decks as separate rather than as interacting with one another)

Those things said, I think that this was definitely a valuable article, because gathering most of the commonly played decks together in one place is an excellent resource for newer players.  I just think that you could have gone farther with it.  Maybe you could write a part two that goes into more depth regarding match-ups?
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MirariKnight
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« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2010, 08:59:24 pm »

Nice, thanks.  New SGC policy regarding premium articles?

I believe they're now free after one month
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Caron
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2010, 01:41:43 pm »

thanks for this very nice (and free! Smile ) article,
it gives you a good idea of what actual meta is, and where is going..
of course as many say you could have included more details (goblins.. how combo works etc.. etc.)
but i think that  it still really gives a reader quite a clear view of 2010 vintage...


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« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2010, 09:46:52 am »

i've heard this same argument for sadistic sacrement too. but with tezz, I can let that resolve and win with bobs still.
Assuming Extract for 3, I take Vault, Robot, Will.  Now, I run 30+ gobs, you have 4 Bob.  You also have to assume that a fair amount of the time, you lost those 3 cards to a 5/3.  Confidence in your ability to race is not high.

I was just gonna say good luck countering 30 goblins.

Then I'll Win with Tezzeret...
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« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2010, 12:41:50 pm »

Don't the goblins just kill Tezzeret before you get a turn to go infinite?
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« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2010, 12:54:34 pm »

Don't the goblins just kill Tezzeret before you get a turn to go infinite?
I have Bobs to block, as well as fire/ice, and time walk. 


I even play Sower in my list, so that's another option, and many lists run darkblast, to buy even more time
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« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2010, 12:56:04 pm »

I wish there were more goblin players in my meta... there are none. Maybe I should become the first? Wink
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2010, 02:08:19 pm »

Don't the goblins just kill Tezzeret before you get a turn to go infinite?
I have Bobs to block, as well as fire/ice, and time walk. 


I even play Sower in my list, so that's another option, and many lists run darkblast, to buy even more time
Tez doesn't go infinite without Vault :p

Getting him up to 5 counters and then attacking ftw against Gobs is tough.  I mean, you have to block every lackey/vandal/fanatic that attacks you.  You have 4 Bob.
I wish there were more goblin players in my meta... there are none. Maybe I should become the first? Wink
You definitely should Smile
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« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2010, 06:17:22 pm »

Steve,

I notice that you didn't list Dark Depths/Dark Times.dec; was this because it's not that prevalent, not that good (in our opinion), or both?  I just wonder because it seems pretty good in the sense that it seems relatively hard to hate on (minus Iona) and it runs quite a bit of disruption (8 duress effects + Leyline or Null Rod and/or Sad Sac.) and quite a few 4 of's.  What do you feel are it's biggest weaknesses, and do you think that it can be a competitor given sufficient numbers?
 
Also, slightly off the subject but I really enjoyed my first Meandeck Open a week ago.  Vintage in the Midwest really owes you guys a debt of gratitude.
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