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Author Topic: Test & Report: Oath vs. Mono-Red Stax  (Read 2807 times)
Dr. Sylvan
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« on: December 31, 2009, 02:44:24 am »

This thread is a prototype to specifically prompt for results of testing and tournament matches from a given matchup between the winning decks of a recent tournament. The idea being to put some facts behind the discussion of card selection and tactics, and aggregate testing results from people outside your player group.

Factors to address when reporting results: whether the players switched decks, how many games were played, whether it was pre- or post-sideboard, and a list of any card-by-card substitutions made from the original deck. Game narration would be great, whether it be blow-by-blow or a summary as simple as "Deck A drew the nuts"/"Deck B triple-mulliganed"/"Deck A ran out of steam after B Forced A's Ancestral Recall".

Based on this evidence, what cards were you unhappy to draw in which situations? Was there an unexpectedly crucial card in the opponent's deck? And so on.

Decklists for the first matchup, Oath vs Mono-Red Stax, from the NYSE IV thread.

1st - Austin Pollack
“Oath”

2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Time Vault
1 Brainstorm
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Lim Dul’s Vault
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Duress
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Voltaic Key
4 Oath of Druids
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Impulse
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
1 Rebuild

Sideboard:
2 REB
1 Oxidize
1 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Wasteland
1 Hellkite Overlord
2 Firespout
1 Extirpate

2nd - Ashok Chittturi
Mono Red Shops

4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Memory Jar
4 Goblin Welder
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Montain
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

Sideboard:
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Greater Gargadon
3 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Ensnaring Bridge
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 07:39:26 pm »

Is there a reason to aggregate manually like this over, say, harvesting from morphling.de, doing a principal component analysis, and regressing (maybe using a BUGS-based methodology) against winningness with interactions between principal components?
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Any interest in putting together/maintaining a Github Git project that hosts proven decks of all major archetypes and documents their changes over time?
Sporkcore
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 04:46:45 am »

Having physically played this match to win the event, the card I was most happy with during the match was Lim-Dul's Vault. It acted like a pseudo-Vamp tutor to find me the cards I needed to win these games. Pithing Needle was a close second as it held off Greater Gargadon to allow me to give Ashok the Orchard tokens to be able to Oath for the win. Properly knowing how to board is huge also, as you don't want to dilute either plan in the match-up. One thing that I think people do wrong in any game 2/3 is board incorrectly, as this may take away from whatever plan you have for winning. In Stax, don't put in so much hate that you don't have a decent plan to lock an opponent out and do what the deck naturally does and in Oath, don't take out cards where you're going to have to worry about how you're going to find Oath and figure out how to give the opponent a creature to Oath off.
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I haev a first turn Llanowar Elf. He casts Ancestral, a slightly stronger card from the same set.
meadbert
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 07:58:37 pm »

the card I was most happy with during the match was Lim-Dul's Vault.

I suspect I am confused by this statement.  Presumably you are not suggesting that Lim-Dul's Vault is the best card in the deck.  Sure you are not happier with it than you are with Vampiric Tutor or Demonic Tutor.  So when you say you were most happy with it what does that mean?  What are you comparing it to?
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 09:11:53 pm »

I felt like Lim-Dul's Vault was way better than Mystical Tutor and as good, if not better than Vamp in this deck. If I was to play the deck again, I'd cut something to play a second Vault, probably Sensei's Divining Top since I felt the card was underwhelming in Oath. Not only do you get to find the card you want, you get to set up your next couple of draws. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that it also tends to be very forgiving since you can pass by the card you want and easily find another tutor with the card (if the card you want is a 1 of) or you get to just find the next one if you're playing more than 1 (which I did in my T4 game in the mirror where I needed to find a red source and passed by a fetchland, but just kept searching until I found the next one).

There were a couple of times throughout the tournament that I cast the card searching for an Orchard, Oath or even both of them using it. Being able to see a total of 5 cards at a time is ridiculous as you can use it and see something like A. Recall, Oath, Orchard, Force, and X, where you set it up to draw Recall and use it to draw the rest of the cards. The card is an amazing top deck tutor and shuffle effect all in one. I feel the card is underestimated and undervalued.

While not the best card in Oath, since that goes to Oath itself, I think it should be an auto include as a 1 or 2 of in any aggro Oath list. The advantage that it gives is so huge that I can't imagine someone not playing it.
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I haev a first turn Llanowar Elf. He casts Ancestral, a slightly stronger card from the same set.
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